Why do people hate the modern sonic design so much?

[Mr. Taxi]

Uh....wow. After reading the last few pages here, I feel educated. Damn Palas .

That can be interpreted in two ways, you know.

It does. In fact, it seems to happens more frequently, since the designs are incredibly similar (apart from 06/riders, which sticks out like a sore thumb). Sonic 2 and Sonic CD's sprite set was incredibly similar to Sonic's orginal sprites, so not many people noticed/cared. Sonic 3/Knuckles updated the sprite sheet, and it's kind of noticable. Aside from that no-one seems to be that bothered about any of the other games from that era, and if we're talking about publicity art then it depends on the artist.

Unsurprisingly, Sonic 3 & Knuckles' general art style was different, too. I think it's something that has been discussed in another thread, but... well, it's not so striking as the difference between Sonic Adventure's and Sonic Colors' style, anyway.

[Abominal SnowTaz]

That can be interpreted in two ways, you know.

I'm not hating on you. I just like your debate skills.

[Mr. Taxi]

I'm not hating on you. I just like your debate skills.

[smogfog]

I dunno if you're being serious but what makes the Adventure designs (and pretty much everyone else) different from how they look today?

It is interesting how there are even need to make it clear... It's okay if you like something I don't, or if I can't even understand what's to like about it, but when you tell me it's the same thing with my favourites-that's when I'm getting mad.

Answering the question, in comparison with Adventure Sonic:

-Modern Sonic's quills are unproportionally bigger

-Tom Kalinske used to say that at the beginning Classic Sonic "had that edgyness in him". Can't feel it, but if so, Adventure Sonic had, and increased that edgyness. But Modern Sonic have lost most of it. When I look at his face, I can't make myself to feel how this character can be cool, how he can even be a boy. Every time I get a feeling that I'm looking at the girl, because he looks so kind and soo cute. I guess it's achieved with the eyes. See, Amy looks like a girl because her eyes are stretched UP, which makes her look permanently surprised. Adventure Sonic's eyes are stretched to the SIDES, which makes him kinda look like an alien, makes him look streaming and dangerous, in other words, manly. Modern Sonic's eyes are stretched UP.

-Modern Sonic's eyebrows are barely visible

-Modern Sonic's eyes are looking unfocused. It's like he looks, but cannot see anything, can't understand what's going on, like a zombie. I cannot feel his soul "beneath" his eyes. (same thing with 2003 TMNT without pupils)

-Modern Sonic's mouth part have lost these "pits" under each eye, and got this stupid rectangle "step" under eyes instead. Mouth itself looks like grandma's, like he's gonna puke. His lips have sucked in a bit, like if there are no teeth in his mouth, and when he smiles, there are really no teeth at all, or else they look like a paper stripe. Let alone fangs, was Free Riders the last game we've seen them in?

-Modern Sonic's overall shinyness. Someone here told me that

"cartoon characters should be cartoonish",

and

"can't see what's wrong with Sonic looking like he's made by most successful animation studio in a world", but, god... Do we really need to make every single franchise and character look like if they were made by Pixar? Do we really need to copy any successful thing, no matter how well it matches us? It really decreases the diversity, and the diversity is the key to development and success!

Also digging into words, when have Sonic been "cartoonish"? Aosth, Satam, Underground, (OVA?), Shuffle. Sonic X is anime, everything else are games. As you can see, truely cartoonish Sonic haven't been around for a long time. And, anyway, there weren't ANY TIME in the past when Sonic looked THAT shiny as Modern Sonic does. So it's really some sort of achievement.

-I'd like to include sausage fingers here, but they have started with SA2B, so it won't be fair from me.

[smashking]

Here's the whole boom of M. Sonic hatred started:

Richard Kuta

Edited October 27, 2012 by smashking

[Shawshank Redemption]

Crystallize, if they acknowledged how much Sonic's design changed past Adventure that would seriously undercut their argument that there has been one consistent "modern" design since 1999, which is bull. Then they couldn't have a classic v. modern battle which was the clear intent of this thread.

Personally, I think it's their own nostalgia blinding them to how things were before the millenium. Ironic, isn't it?

But I'm an asshole for being blunt without cursing anyone out, while people calling others in this thread mentally unstable is totally cool discourse if they agree with you.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Ball Hog Badnik

[Komodin]

I'll just restate this: while I don't mind any of Sonic's designs, I prefer Sonic's current depiction. If that makes me a fanboy for some reason... meh, at least I'm a pleased fanboy.

[Lange]

Well one aspect is that Sonic has age and grown in figure, Generations hinted at this saying the classic Sonic was his "younger self" I wonder if a lot of people have considered this aspect that he was meant to change over time. Also would everyone really like to be playing new games with the older Sonic artstyle in place? I sure wouldn't it would be goofy as hell.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Lange

[Frogging101]

Well one aspect is that Sonic has age and grown in figure, Generations hinted at this saying the classic Sonic was his "younger self" I wonder if a lot of people have considered this aspect that he was meant to change over time. Also would everyone really like to be playing games with the older Sonic artstyle in place? I sure wouldn't it would be goofy as hell.

I don't think he was meant to change over time (i.e. aging). Classic Sonic is "younger" because he's from when the series was younger. Sonic has been the same age the whole time, but the series has not, and his design has changed over time.

[Mr. Taxi]

Well one aspect is that Sonic has age and grown in figure, Generations hinted at this saying the classic Sonic was his "younger self" I wonder if a lot of people have considered this aspect that he was meant to change over time. Also would everyone really like to be playing games with the older Sonic artstyle in place? I sure wouldn't it would be goofy as hell.

I'm pretty sure that was a design choice particular to Generations, not something thought over previously, let alone from the very beginning. I mean, looking at classic Sonic's design in the classic games, there's nothing goofy about it. They did that on purpose for Generations, for whatever reason. To make modern Sonic look cooler in comparison, maybe?

[Anti Alias]

Crystalize touched in a few points that peeved me about modern Sonic's design and that are quite hard to see, but make a lot of difference with what are you trying to achieve with the character...

I think the key with Sonic are his expressions, the "stretched to the sides" eyes are actually pretty much what makes Sonic's expression right when I draw him, I actually tend to put a ridiculous ammount of effort to get this particular part right, and I don't know if you guys see it like me, but it makes a massive diference in Sonic's expression in my opinion, just compare...

Wrong:

Right:

Artists, pay attention to the inner curve of Sonic's eyes, they are slightly angled, that little detail makes the difference between the expressions of the character, with this Sonic looks badass, without it he looks derpy.

that's my peeve with Sonic nowdays, very rarely the animators animate Sonic's eyes right.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Anti Alias

[Frogging101]

Crystalize touched in a few points that peeved me about modern Sonic's design and that are quite hard to see, but make a lot of difference with what are you trying to achieve with the character...

I think the key with Sonic are his exp<b></b>ressions, the "stretched to the sides" eyes are actually pretty much what makes Sonic's exp<b></b>ression right when I draw him, I actually tend to put a ridiculous ammount of effort to get this particular part right, and I don't know if you guys see it like me, but it makes a massive diference in Sonic's exp<b></b>ression in my opinion, just compare...

[snip]

Artists, pay attention to the inner curve of Sonic's eyes, they are slightly angled, that little detail makes the difference between the exp<b></b>ressions of the character, with this Sonic looks badass, without it he looks derpy.

that's my peeve with Sonic nowdays, very rarely the animators animate Sonic's eyes right.

Sorry, but I really don't see the difference. They look pretty much the same. I'm not an artist so maybe that's why I'm not seeing it; I don't know. So, what game had the "wrong" design and what game had the "right" design? (i.e. what games are those images from?).

Both image pairs look like Sonic, and they both look fine to me. I probably like the bottom image best because the glasses above his eyes look pretty cool in a way.

And as for Crystalize's post, I can't say I know what he means about the shininess or the eyes being stretched up vs to the side. I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, I just don't understand what you're talking about; Looking at an image of Sonic, I can't relate what he says to the picture. I just don't see it.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Frogging101

[Nepenthe]

I'm an artist and the only difference I see is that on the top two examples, Sonic is essentially making the DreamWorks expression with one brow being lower than the other, and in the others, his eyes are the same height. Frankly, I think both eye movements are valid expressions for him.

[Faseeh]

Does any one here actually hate this design? I don't think so. They might just prefer the Classic or Adventure design a lot more than this. Did you guys realise something? The Unleashed model is actually shorter than the one in Secret Rings, or so it seems. He also has put on more weight. (To me at least) Really, this design shines a lot. It's a really nice fusion of the Adventure and Classic times. The only that would ever need some changing is the iris and brows a little and I'm quite sure Sonic Team will do it by the next generation.

[Anti Alias]

Sorry, but I really don't see the difference. They look pretty much the same. I'm not an artist so maybe that's why I'm not seeing it; I don't know. So, what game had the "wrong" design and what game had the "right" design? (i.e. what games are those images from?).

all pictures are from the Sonic Unleashed/Colors model, the problem is not the model itself, but the way the animator poses it, Sonic is suposed to have a bit of "tsurime eyes" in his standard expressions and they often forget it.

it's very subtle but if you pay attention, the artworks that get the expression right often have this, this "angle" between his brows, it's not totally curved, it has a very subtle angle that "sharpens" the transition of the eyes, it's a very distinguishing feature of Uekawa's artworks for example.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

But I'm an asshole for being blunt without cursing anyone out, while people calling others in this thread mentally unstable is totally cool discourse if they agree with you.

I called you out like that for being hypocritical for attacking people's preferences after you just called others out for doing the same thing, caling people lazy for pointing out people liking Classic Sonic out of nostalgia (especially when you know full and well that it's a major factor in their likings), and calling their posts that go far more in-depth to the details over why people dislike Sonic's modern design as "unintelligible".

Yeah, I did say it was being an asshole, but don't mince words.

Edited October 28, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Shawshank Redemption]

I called you out like that for being hypocritical for attacking people's preferences after you just called others out for doing the same thing, caling people lazy for pointing out people liking Classic Sonic out of nostalgia (especially when you know full and well that it's a major factor in their likings), and calling their posts that go far more in-depth to the details over why people dislike Sonic's modern design as "unintelligible".

Yeah, I did say it was being an asshole, but don't mince words.

I dunno man, it seems to me the whole "nostalgia" canard is unfairly used as a mindless weapon against those with legitimate reasons to prefer the original vision of Sonic. Charming little dude who rolls up into a ball and kicks ass, that guy.

It's sort of impossible to separate the classic design from his environment, his cast of characters, and overall attitude. It's not nostalgia being a major factor so much as prefering the cohesive universe that was being presented. Sonic's universe feels completely different from game to game these days and it's extremely jarring. He could very well live in some city apartment far away from the South Island Archipelago with how domesticated he's become.

In truth many people on this forum are young and actually grew up with "modern" sonic and that's why they feel nostalgic about him. But the argument never goes the other way does it?

Edited October 28, 2012 by Ball Hog Badnik

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I dunno man, it seems to me the whole "nostalgia" canard is unfairly used as a mindless weapon against those with legitimate reasons to prefer the original vision of Sonic. Charming little dude who rolls up into a ball and kicks ass, that guy.

You mean the "classic" version, because it's not the original vision. That would be this:

And provided that those who prefer Classic Sonic aren't bashing the Modern take, they hardly have anything to worry about except from those who call them classicfags or nostalgiafags for so much as saying "I like Classic Sonic". It just so happens that a lot of annoyingly vocal Classic fans tend to do such bashing.

It's sort of impossible to separate the classic design from his environment, his cast of characters, and overall attitude.

Considering that his environment, cast of characters, and overall attitude were developed further, I'd say they never left even when he became Modern Sonic. Just that sometimes it's a hit and miss on their portrayal

It's not nostalgia being a major factor so much as prefering the cohesive universe that was being presented. Sonic's universe feels completely different from game to game these days and it's extremely jarring. He could very well live in some city apartment far away from the South Island Archipelago with how domesticated he's become.

Keeping in mind that said elements were in the past and they wish they would go back to them and the likes, that's pretty much part of what nostalgia is. And like I said, it's not a bad thing so much as it's not coming off as "Classic is BETTAR, Modern SUXXX!" in which case, yeah I see no sympathy in that kind of attitude and they deserve whatever backlash they get.

In truth many people on this forum are young and actually grew up with "modern" sonic and that's why they feel nostalgic about him. But the argument never goes the other way does it?

First off, a lot of people on these forums are actually young adults, but that's not saying we don't have a sizable number of teenagers here.

A lot of those kinds of fans tend to praise ShTH despite it being inappropriate for the series and Sonic 06 despite it's glaring flaws, so they have their own set of criticism.

However, it does go the other way, it's just that since that one group of fans are generally older than than the other and they tend to reminisce and place the Classics far too high on a pedestal than they should (which is saying a lot because the Classic are VERY good), they get the nostalgia card pinned to them much easier than the latter group. That doesn't mean Modern fans, more specifically those who prefer the Adventures, don't get their time every once in a while.

Edited October 28, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Frogging101]

I was thinking about this recently. I came to the Sonic fanbase from AoStH which, of course, used the classic Sonic design. When I saw the modern one I didn't really like it very much. But then it grew on me and I like it just as much as the classic one, if not more. This doesn't really explain why other people seem to hate it, it's just my opinion and what I think about the Classic and Modern Sonic designs.

[tenchibr]

Yesterday, I realized that now, I like Modern over Classic. I still like Classic, but I really enjoy Modern's games more now.

I know that technically, Modern started in Adventure, but to me, that's an Adventure Sonic between the two, and my least favorite one.

[lounge]

I really do miss the wider, more at an angle eyes that modern sonic used to have. That really does make a difference for me. He looks so much cooler that way. The artwork in the first Sonic Rush and Adventures I really loved the way he looked. But when I saw that Rush Adventure 2007 artwork I had no idea why they changed those features. Making him look younger and kind of more generic. The eyes being more stretched up instead of being stretched wider and at more of an angle. And of course the less curvy muzzles.

It's not just Sonic Team doing this. Nintendo has been doing the same thing for a long time with their renders. The characters always look so boring.