Characters you feel have the most potential.

[Kuzu]

i think Metal Sonic has the most potential.. i'd seriously like to see him reclaim his true right of being Sonic's true rival and get Shadow out of the picture.

Why does Sonic need a "true" rival, he can have more than one and I don't see why Shadow has to be replaced just so Metal can be around more. Do you have some kind of personal vendetta against Shadow or something? Sonic can have more than one rival, each of them representing a different aspect of his character.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[Dantemustdie00]

Huh, I agree with Diogenes on Rouge, she could've had so much more going for her than being somewhat of a lacky of Shadow and not doing her own stuff.

And Blaze definately could be used more so, along with Marine. Mainly I would want more exploration of her world. And jeezuz, what happened to Knuckles, it's like he doesn't exist anymore.

[Diogenes]

How many rivals does Sonic really need, though? Alternatively, how many "Sonic's rival" characters does the series need? I don't think we necessarily need to limit it to one, but I don't think it's a good idea to have a bunch of overlap, either.

[Solkia]

I think Amy has the potential to be the worst character ever made, if not already in that positition.

[Kuzu]

How many rivals does Sonic really need, though? Alternatively, how many "Sonic's rival" characters does the series need? I don't think we necessarily need to limit it to one, but I don't think it's a good idea to have a bunch of overlap, either.

I'm not saying there should be a mess load, but for the sake of compromise let's just limit it to Metal and Shadow, because Knuckles may fight with Sonic, but they're on friendly terms and Jet isn't going anywhere outside of his series.

[Lady Soniko]

Why does Sonic need a "true" rival, he can have more than one and I don't see why Shadow has to be replaced just so Metal can be around more. Do you have some kind of personal vendetta against Shadow or something? Sonic can have more than one rival, each of them representing a different aspect of his character.

i just see Shadow as a joke outside of SA2, i don't think he fits the role as THE rival, maybe just a casual rival in terns of speed and power, but Shadow doesn't even treat Sonic as a rival.

its simple

Metal Sonic is a METAL Sonic, nothing screams Rival more than a metallic doppelgänger of the hero

maybe Shadow could be considered a Rival, but he's more the friendlier type, like Knuckles, got off on the wrong foot from the start, work together for the better good.

don't think we'll see that with Metal anytime soon, so i'm guessing that upgrades Metal to potential Nemesis?

and seriously, this is my opinion, so stop blowing things out of proportion when you can't accept it and think i have a problem with a cartoon hedgehog kthnxbai.

:Edit: it was so nice of you to casually side step my other points about Blaze and Knuckles too.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Samus Aran

[Kuzu]

i just see Shadow as a joke outside of SA2, i don't think he fits the role as THE rival, maybe just a casual rival in terns of speed and power, but Shadow doesn't even treat Sonic as a rival.

He fights and occasionally clashes with Sonic, sounds like a rival to me.

Metal Sonic is a METAL Sonic, nothing screams Rival more than a metallic doppelgänger of the hero

If I recalled, Shadow is the SHADOW of Sonic, so yeah.

maybe Shadow could be considered a Rival, but he's more the friendlier type, like Knuckles, got off on the wrong foot from the start, work together for the better good.

Except Shadow wasn't tricked he knew damn well what he was doing and was going to do it had he not remembered Maria's wish, and even after turning face, he and Sonic are hardly friends on the same terms of Sonic & Knuckles at least.

and seriously, this is my opinion,so stop blowing things out of proportion when you can't accept it and think i have a problem with a cartoon hedgehog kthnxbai.

Oh, I am so damn tired of hearing this shit "Oh, its my opinion, so I can say whatever I want, so there" Having an opinion doesn't mean you're immune to critcism, that's the entire point of a forum, otherwise none of us would even have arguments in the first place, so quit thinking that just because something is your opinion means nobody is allowed to respond.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[Lady Soniko]

He fights and occasionally clashes with Sonic, sounds like a rival to me.

If I recalled, Shadow is the SHADOW of Sonic, so yeah.

Except Shadow wasn't tricked he knew damn well what he was doing and was going to do it had he not remembered Maria's wish, and even after turning face, he and Sonic are hardly friends on the same terms of Sonic & Knuckles at least.

Oh, I am so damn tired of hearing this shit "Oh, its my opinion, so I can say whatever I want, so there" Having an opinion doesn't mean you're immune to critcism, that's the entire point of a forum, otherwise none of us would even have arguments in the first place, so quit thinking that just because something is your opinion means nobody is allowed to respond.

well deal with it, it is MY OPINION, potential for Metal Sonic to be a main rival, and if your out to cause arguments then thats your problem, i'm leaving my input on what i think would bring Metal's point to the series.

Shadow wasn't created to look like Sonic though was he? that was purely coincidental.

and yeah, you totally side stepped all my points, and simply thought i was bashing Shadow.

how immature of you.

[Diogenes]

He fights and occasionally clashes with Sonic, sounds like a rival to me.

They've fought fairly rarely, though, and when they did it was rarely in any context that could be considered rivalry. They were enemies in SA2. Everyone fought everyone in Heroes (and Battle, and any other game with a ton of characters competing). Enemies again in ShtH. And if they are going to be rivals, what's their rivalry actually built on? You can't simply have them fight for the sake of fighting, or just because they have similar abilities. There needs to be a legitimate conflict.

If I recalled, Shadow is the SHADOW of Sonic, so yeah.

Only from the player's perspective. There's no such connection in-universe.

well deal with it, it is MY OPINION

how immature of you.

Okay, no, you don't get to call people immature when you throw around "MY OPINION" as if it's got any weight. You can have your opinion, but if you're going to put it out there, it's going to be criticized. If you can't accept that, then you are not willing to participate in an actual discussion, and you should not be posting here.

[Kuzu]

well deal with it, it is MY OPINION, potential for Metal Sonic to be a main rival, and if your out to cause arguments then thats your problem, i'm leaving my input on what i think would bring Metal's point to the series.

Shadow wasn't created to look like Sonic though was he? that was purely coincidental.

and yeah, you totally side stepped all my points, and simply thought i was bashing Shadow.

how immature of you.

Its a forum, if I feel like responding to a post I don't agree with, I will respond to a post I don't agree with. I don't care how you feel about Shadow or Metal, just your reasons behind them are completely biased and unfavorably in one side, and I'm telling you exactly why, don't want to be criticized, don't post. Its that simple.

They've fought fairly rarely, though, and when they did it was rarely in any context that could be considered rivalry. They were enemies in SA2. Everyone fought everyone in Heroes (and Battle, and any other game with a ton of characters competing). Enemies again in ShtH. And if they are going to be rivals, what's their rivalry actually built on? You can't simply have them fight for the sake of fighting, or just because they have similar abilities. There needs to be a legitimate conflict.

Most of the games they fought was usually because they had conflicting goals, which technically counts as a conflict between the two in that regard. And I don't think the battles have to be exclusive to just their conflict alone for it to count as rivalry either, it can be a massive competition or whatever. Rivalry is defined by two factions competing for either a common goal(In this case all of the racing spin offs, and etc.) or against each other in general, and I think Sonic & Shadow have fought enough times to count.

Only from the player's perspective. There's no such connection in-universe.

I was talking more of character conception than anything else.

[Lady Soniko]

actually Diogenes, the immature part was directed at side stepping my points, not about not accepting my opinion.

there is no rocket science behind my points.

i simply would Like Metal as a main rival because he's a Robotic version of the main hero, its self explanatory

i did say Knuckles was the one that needs the attention the most anyway.

i still think of Shadow being the none-serious character with what SEGA have done to him, and i retconned most of his appearances outside of SA2, because as far as i'm aware, he DIED at the end of that game and SEGA tend to just dig his grave deeper with each inclusion in the series.

i don't hate Shadow lol, just don't see him as a proper Rival to Sonic even though they are almost the same, if anything i'd Consider Knuckles to be a greater rival than Shadow from their past experiences.

and Shadic there are ways of getting your points across without being a total ass about it, maybe you should learn to be more civil? i rarely go outside of the marketplace on SSMB so give me a break =/

[Kuzu]

and Shadic there are ways of getting your points across without being a total ass about it, maybe you should learn to be more civil? i rarely go outside of the marketplace on SSMB so give me a break =/

How was I being an ass in any way shape and form? You made a point and I responded to it in a completely civil manner, I only responded to that last part because you threw the word "OPINION" around like it means something.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[Lady Soniko]

How was I being an ass in any way shape and form? You made a point and I responded to it in a completely civil manner, I only responded to that last part because you threw the word "OPINION" around like it means something.

just forget it, god.

[Kuzu]

You know what, forget it, I'm too tired for this shit.

I'll make a list for more characters later.

[Pawn]

They've fought fairly rarely, though, and when they did it was rarely in any context that could be considered rivalry. They were enemies in SA2. Everyone fought everyone in Heroes (and Battle, and any other game with a ton of characters competing). Enemies again in ShtH. And if they are going to be rivals, what's their rivalry actually built on? You can't simply have them fight for the sake of fighting, or just because they have similar abilities. There needs to be a legitimate conflict.

Is this not the case with all of Sonic's 'rivals' though? Aside from Jet in the Riders games, no character (disregarding the character battles in Heroes and Battle for the reasons you stated) has challenged Sonic without being influenced to do so by a villain (Eggman, Gerald, Mephiles) or with the single motivation to test their mettle against him. Metal Sonic did have a mad on for Sonic in Heroes, but he was playing all-out villain rather than rival.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Lungo

[Diogenes]

True enough, but no one's going to mistake this for a well-written series. Whether it's Shadow, Metal, or both, they need to be built into rivals, because they're pretty poor excuses as it is.

[Lady Soniko]

Is this not the case with all of Sonic's 'rivals' though? Aside from Jet in the Riders games, no character (disregarding the character battles in Heroes and Battle for the reasons you stated) has challenged Sonic without being influenced to do so by a villain (Eggman, Gerald, Mephiles) or with the single motivation to test their mettle against him. Metal Sonic did have a mad on for Sonic in Heroes, but he was playing all-out villain rather than rival.

I can see how Metal may have more direct rival potential, given his motivation, but it really depends how you define 'rival'. Knuckles and Shadow are just different types of rivals. I don't think we need any more than three in the main series, however.

Knuckles took a back Seat after S3&K so he's not even considered a rival anymore, Metal Sonic has had nothing to do with being a Rival nor Enemy since Heroes (until E:2 that is)

Shadow is more his Modern Rival, they Tried to make Silver be a potential rival in 06, but it was set out more like a stalker that Sonic didn't really have time for lol.

Blaze was considered Sonic's Rival in Rush 1, but pulled a Knuckles by the end and became some-what like friends.

i suppose Jet is a rival too, but like Shadic said only in the Riders series and nothing more.

i suppose they all have their strengths and disadvantages as rivals, some more than others obviously.

[Kuzu]

True enough, but no one's going to mistake this for a well-written series. Whether it's Shadow, Metal, or both, they need to be built into rivals, because they're pretty poor excuses as it is.

Well if we're going by the exact definition:

Ri-val:

Noun: A person or thing competing with another for the same objective or for superiority in the same field of activity.

Verb: Compete for superiority with; be or seem to be equal or comparable to.

Going by this, both Metal and Shadow fit the mold, so I don't think either are poor examples.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[Diogenes]

They're poor examples because they're not firmly established (among other things).

Fitting the textbook definition of something does not mean it is necessarily a good example of that thing.

[Kuzu]

They're poor examples because they're not firmly established (among other things).

Fitting the textbook definition of something does not mean it is necessarily a good example of that thing.

Well what's "firmly" established to you? Both of them fight Sonic enough times, so I have no idea how it can get more established than that.

[Pawn]

Knuckles took a back Seat after S3&K so he's not even considered a rival anymore

Yet in Generations' biography he is referred to as both Sonic's rival and friend: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=oQjrpARa93I

Granted he may not want to hurt Sonic, but that doesn't stop them from competing in other ways.

It would all be a lot simpler if Sonic Team would just portray the characters less poorly.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Lungo

[Lady Soniko]

Yet in Generations' biography he is referred to as both Sonic's rival and friend: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=oQjrpARa93I

Granted he may not want to hurt Sonic, but that doesn't stop them from competing in other ways.

He doesn't share that same raw feeling they had for each other in S3&K's or Fighters, but i know what you mean.

he just hasn't been portrayed as a proper Rival since then, more like the dopey but strong friend of Sonic, that gets mad quite a lot.

and Rival's don't necessarily always hurt each other.

[Kuzu]

All of this could be solved if Sonic Team didn't suck at writing, but alas.

[Kamicciolo]

To be fair, that stuff about being Sonic's sometimes-rival is pretty much copy-pasted into every bio for him.

The information in the bio's in general never really seem to change much between games (with the exception of adding in some mentions of current story events for Sonic, Tails and Eggman), and sometimes makes mentions to character traits that never seem to show up when the character is present, so you tend to get some stuff that's probably irrelevant to the character's actual personality.

[Tails spin]

Its funny because its true...excuse me while I go to bed depressed.

Anywho:

Knuckles: He's has possibly the most important role in the series outside of Sonic, and yet he's treated as a joke. His ties to both the chaos emeralds and master emerald can expand on him greatly, as being a treasure hunter, he probably knows a lot about all of the mystical and ancient shit in Sonic's world, and the fact that having said powerful object must be the target of a lot of people aside from just Eggman and Rouge. Plus he's already got close ties to Sonic himself.

Shadow: Now put down those pitchforks and hear me out, Shadow is a character with damn near unlimited potential, his backstory(as shit as it was) is rich enough to have him go in any direction, how he adjusts to being in a military setting, expanding on his relationships with the rest of the cast(Primarily with Eggman), and how he copes with the conflict of having a cynical view of life, yet fighting for all.

The Chaotix: Potential mystery plots anyone? These guys can get the dirt and info on any new threat to the planet, while Sonic & co. are off doing their hero thing; Vector's detective skills and overall perceptive personality, along with Espio's straitlaced and disciplined attitude, and Charmy being Vector's protege and learning how to be a detective can lead to interesting results.

As you can tell by my pic I'm a big fan of Knuckles so I like the idea of exploring more of knuckles connection to the master emerald. I know its going alittle to deep but we could find out how he was placed as guardian ( other than inheriting it which is obvious.)

Shadow is as of now a bland slate after his game, 06 really didn't do him justice. He needs to be moved foward other than just being an angry version of Sonic.

And a Chaotix plot would be funny an interesting