What do you want for the next Sonic game?

[Soniman]

No.

The Adventure formula can be a basis for the gameplay, but it should be expanded on. The tone of the game shouldn't be anything like the Adventure games. Also, I'd like to see some more cartoonish environments like those from Heroes as opposed to the more realistic stages like Emerald Coast.

I don't really like how Sa1 gets lumped in the same mold as Sa2 in terms of realism. It had plenty of Sonic-y stages like Twinkle Park, Windy Valley, Lost World, Sky Deck, Casinopolis, etc.

[Phos]

A game that's not a series of fancy look of chutes with a couple of rectangles to jump on.

Seems good! We need to play as other characters, I've been frankly been tired playing only as Sonic.

I'd blame that on the basic gameplay not being very deep.

[Spooky Mulder]

I don't really like how Sa1 gets lumped in the same mold as Sa2 in terms of realism. It had plenty of Sonic-y stages like Twinkle Park, Windy Valley, Lost World, Sky Deck, Casinopolis, etc.

Those stages really don't seem that "Sonic-y" to me. The tropes represent are Sonic-y, but they seem to be much more realistic takes on those tropes.

Twinkle Park's kart racing segments are interesting, but the actual park isn't all that unusual. I can picture plenty of non-Sonic characters fitting right in in Twinkle Park.

Sky Deck and the Egg Carrier are much more realistic than the fortresses we've seen Eggman use in S3, Heroes, and Generations. Again, I feel like I could stick a character completely unrelated to the Sonic series in that area and have them fit in.

Same goes for Casinopolis. The Pinball segments were interesting, but they felt like minigames as opposed to being part of the level like in Casino Night or Casino Park. As a whole, stages like Casino Park seem more "Sonic-y" than Casinopolis.

Comparison:

I'll give you Windy Valley and Lost World.

[Thirsty Pocket]

I hadn't thought of what I want out of Sonic for a while.

I'd like them to take a few aspects from both Adventure games, and combine them with the modern games.

Mostly, I want them to go back to six playable characters with their own stories. Like Sonic Adventure 1, I'd like you to choose your character, and play as them until you decide to stop, but I'd like the levels to just progress like they did in Adventure 2, with no hub world in between. I didn't like the hub world in...pretty much any Sonic game, and I didn't like how you were forced to change characters so often in Adventure 2.

I don't like the boost-a-thon style gameplay anymore for Sonic... but that doesn't mean it should go. I think one of the other playable characters can get a more slow paced platforming segment, while Sonic can play as he does in the modern games... hopefully colors.

I'd also like a more Sonic Adventure 2 style sound track, where each character has a somewhat distinct style of background music ( ...though Tails and Eggman kinda sounded too much alike. )

Chao would be icing on the cake, but I have come to terms with the fact that they will not be returning.

[Diogenes]

There's a bit of a jump between the Genesis games and SA, but I'd say there's a larger gap between SA and SA2. And the biggest difference between SA and the Genesis games is that the former tries to keep up some kind of pretense of being plausible, whereas the Genesis games will have you run along an airship that couldn't possibly have gotten off the ground, much less stay in the air (not that Sky Deck was all that much better, considering the actual level and not the adventure field...).

[krazystitch]

In Rush you can do tricks at almost anytime in the air, and they fill your boost. You also have a forward and up trick ala Advance 2. It added a good dynamic.

What I thought was cool about the trick system in Advance 2 was that using different kind of tricks at different types of jumps would lead you into a different path. Like..using the up trick at one ramp would lead you to an upper road while using it somewhere else really didn't get you anything but air and it got you to try to learn the levels. Not that I have anything against Generation's boost filling trick system either, but..then again, Advance 2 didn't eve have boost, so it wouldn't have worked there.

[Meow]

``no homing attack``

How would that work? Jumping on enemies is very hard in 3d with Sonic's speed. You could make the homing attack more momentum-based if you wanted to do something like this, but not there at all? Not working well.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Marina

[Salamander]

Its only a matter of time before Sonic makes the jump to the 3DS, here's hoping they stick with the Rush series.

[Semi-colon e]

Ignoring the complaints about the boost YET AGAIN...

Anyway I don't really care what exactly it is they do, whether classic in 3D, more Modern boost refinement, or Adventure style, as long as it's FUN. I feel like one of so few people who doesn't have ridiculously specific requirements for a good Sonic game I dunno, perhaps more open levels, but that doesn't require a specific playstyle in and of itself, same with no genre roulette, which we've mostly avoided now.

Though I will say this: if you're gonna including rolling, have the physics, or we might as well have another Modern style Boost game. By that, I mean, be more faithful.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Semi-colon e

[Pawn]

I don't really like how Sa1 gets lumped in the same mold as Sa2 in terms of realism. It had plenty of Sonic-y stages like Twinkle Park, Windy Valley, Lost World, Sky Deck, Casinopolis, etc.

SA2 had it's share of more unusual levels too, like Pumpkin Hill and Egg Quarters/Death Chamber (especially with all those odd Eggman statues). Not to mention that the Ark stages like Crazy Gadget and Final Rush are no more realistic than the Death Egg Zone, while Green Forest/White Jungle are little more realistic than Angel Island Zone.

There's a bit of a jump between the Genesis games and SA, but I'd say there's a larger gap between SA and SA2. And the biggest difference between SA and the Genesis games is that the former tries to keep up some kind of pretense of being plausible, whereas the Genesis games will have you run along an airship that couldn't possibly have gotten off the ground, much less stay in the air (not that Sky Deck was all that much better, considering the actual level and not the adventure field...).

While I do believe there is a difference, I don't think the jump between SA and SA2 is that large, considering SA2 had its share of quirky levels.

[Winston]

I want more Unleashed Gameplay, I've liked it alot better than the Adventure gameplay, and I honestly want to see more of it. It's just so fun, and I'd love to see it return for the "new" Modern era.

[Phos]

``no homing attack``

How would that work? Jumping on enemies is very hard in 3d with Sonic's speed. You could make the homing attack more momentum-based if you wanted to do something like this, but not there at all? Not working well.

This is trotted out every time someone brings up nixing the homing attack and I still haven't seen an example of why this is so hard, you never need to do this while going fast, and you never needed to destroy enemies to advance.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

This is trotted out every time someone brings up nixing the homing attack and I still haven't seen an example of why this is so hard, you never need to do this while going fast, and you never needed to destroy enemies to advance.

Actually, yes you did need it to destroy enemies to advance, but only if they were situated over a pit where you had to chain attack to get across.

I wouldn't exactly say it is very hard, but it can a problem lining up your attack to strike the enemy without the HA. That was reason they made it in the first place, from what I've been told. It would be akin to trying to shoot someone without a targeting reticule, it's possible to do but it comes with its drawbacks.

Edited February 2, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Phos]

Actually, yes you did need it to destroy enemies to advance, but only if they were situated over a pit where you had to chain attack to get across.

I wouldn't exactly say it is very hard, but it can a problem lining up your attack to strike the enemy without the HA. That was reason they made it in the first place, from what I've been told. It would be akin to trying to shoot someone without a targeting reticule, it's possible to do but it comes with its drawbacks.

This is another example of Sonic Team making a need for the move because it isn't needed otherwise. You never needed to do this in the worthwhile games.

[Solid SOAP]

Ideally I'd want a game with Colors' art style, Generations' gameplay on the 360 and PS3. That's it, really,

[Diogenes]

This is trotted out every time someone brings up nixing the homing attack and I still haven't seen an example of why this is so hard, you never need to do this while going fast, and you never needed to destroy enemies to advance.

It's something I want to do, and something I think Sonic should be able to do. The added dimension makes it notably harder, so I think something should be done to compensate for that. It doesn't have to be the homing attack, but I believe it's a workable solution, so I keep it until I hear of something better.

[Old dead account]

How about the homing attack gets changed to strike enemies and then instead of killing your momentum, propel you forward like the balloons in Rooftop Run or Tropical Resort? I figure that will make it feel a bit less pace killing and maybe even force them to get rid of homing attack chains and set it up so you must think more strategically before using it.

[Blacklightning]

This is trotted out every time someone brings up nixing the homing attack and I still haven't seen an example of why this is so hard, you never need to do this while going fast, and you never needed to destroy enemies to advance.

I've seen plenty of places in Generations where I've had to break out of a boost straight into a Homing Attack for whatever reason (Sky Sanctuary probably being the most rich in examples off the top of my head), but that's a bit besides the point. To be honest it just puzzles me why you'd want to enforce such arbitary restrictions on the player's abilities on the basis that they weren't necessary once apon a time, in an environment that didn't have these abilities at all and as such had no reason to be designed around them.

It's also worth noting that some folks (included the quoted) have misrepresented the problem slightly; speed plays a factor too, no doubt, but Sonic tends to control a fair bit slipperier than most other 3D games that expect direct jumps on head - as a result of the gradual handling that originates all the way back from the freakin' Genesis era. As a result, hitting an enemy at reasonable pelt (not even boost speeds - imagine peak speeds just holding the control stick) in a 3D environment reliably without a HA is much more cumbersome and time-consuming than it's generally worth, as it's really easy to misjudge your angle and miss entirely due to non-instantaneous handling and stopping. Of course, you could demonstrate this for yourself by booting up a level with one of the "we scattered enemies randomly over this section to give the player some Boost meter recovery" sections and try taking out enemies without stopping or HAing. I'd personally recommend the early bits of Crisis City for that.

This is another example of Sonic Team making a need for the move because it isn't needed otherwise.

An equivalent statement would be "Sega made a need for rolling in Sonic 1 because it wasn't needed otherwise". It's level design made in mind of the abilities available to the player - I fail to see why this is an inherent problem.

[Unknownlight]

What do I want?

What do I want...what do I want...

You know what? I pretty much just want Sonic Robo Blast 2, but made professionally by Sonic Team.

Otherwise, just build upon Generations' Seaside Hill, but with better jumping physics and less blocky platforming.

[ArtFenix]

- Full 3D Sonic game with long levels and alternate paths with hidden power-ups or other items

- Multiple playable characters

- A proper story which is long enough and interesting to follow

- A proper HUB world

- CG cutscenes and main theme for the game [i think that's obvious, but just in case...]

- High replayability, and decent difficulty

And one minor thing

- Get rid of the stupid lock-on sign. This thing deprives of cinematic feel and is just for teh babies. Keep the sound of it, but remove that stupid sign.

Yeah, I'd love to see Sonic adventure 3.

Edited February 2, 2012 by ArtFenix

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

- Get rid of the stupid lock-on sign. This thing deprives of cinematic feel and is just for teh babies. Keep the sound of it, but remove that stupid sign.

What lock-on sign? You mean for the Homing Attack?

Edited February 2, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[ArtFenix]

What lock-on sign? You mean for the Homing Attack?

Yeah, I'm talking about the sign that appears on enemies and even springs and bosses before you homing attack them. I think that's oversimplifying. It's lame. Every game from 1998 to 2006 was just fine without this. Those games had more cinematic feel to them. Edited February 2, 2012 by ArtFenix

[Blacklightning]

It's lame. Every game from 1998 to 2006 was just fine without this.

Really? Are you quite sure of that? Because last I checked, the Adventure era games were widely known for having the worst homing attacks in the history of the franchise - partly out of posessing the strangest glitches imaginable (I've heard mention of HAs in Heroes missing completely and flinging players into a chasm all too frequently, and Sonic '06 I've heard to do everything from simply fail to lock on and do a useless airdash instead, to literally flinging the player into the fucking sun), and partly because of a nagging inability to actually tell the exact distance at which a Homing Attack works properly. Which is, you know, the entire reason the targeting reticule was invented in the first place.

Those games had more cinematic feel to them.

When a game is capable of playing itself from anywhere between 15 seconds to a full minute, I'd like to think a series can stand to be a lot less cinematic and a lot more proactive. Seriously, nearly every cinematic appeal I can think of, from camera shifts to scripted sequences, has come at the direct cost of actual gameplay, and this is really no different. A very slight immersion break is a small price to pay for not missing a HA target and falling into a death pit.

[Meow]

It's also worth noting that some folks (included the quoted) have misrepresented the problem slightly; speed plays a factor too, no doubt, but Sonic tends to control a fair bit slipperier than most other 3D games that expect direct jumps on head - as a result of the gradual handling that originates all the way back from the freakin' Genesis era. As a result, hitting an enemy at reasonable pelt (not even boost speeds - imagine peak speeds just holding the control stick) in a 3D environment reliably without a HA is much more cumbersome and time-consuming than it's generally worth, as it's really easy to misjudge your angle and miss entirely due to non-instantaneous handling and stopping. Of course, you could demonstrate this for yourself by booting up a level with one of the "we scattered enemies randomly over this section to give the player some Boost meter recovery" sections and try taking out enemies without stopping or HAing. I'd personally recommend the early bits of Crisis City for that.

Yeah for sure, I totally agree with this, which is why when I made my initial post I made sure to say he needed some tweaking and then mentioned again in my next post. It's no secret that Sonic is kind of awkward to control at a very low speed in more recent titles (though Generations is quite a bit better than Unleashed in this regard, it is still a little awkward). But that's because he, along with the levels, are designed to go at a blistering fast pace and the levels tend to be corridor-esque in style, so it doesn't really require much maneuvering from side to side. Even then in the cases you DO need to move from side to side, the quick step has your back. So for this style of gameplay they don't need to worry about a lot of things really. I also see no inherent problem in the fact that they design the levels around Modern Sonic's new abilities (such as the homing attack and the boost) but simply the fact that while I do not necessarily mind it, to me the homing attack chains are getting really boring and disruptive in the games to me. They really can break the flow and to me they seem really unneeded.

But for sure, I think for a HA-less Sonic game there would definitely have to be some major tweaks to the way he handles so that he still manages to obtain momentum in his movements but still feel very tight and responsive while doing so. Obviously at higher speeds it'll become harder, but if it were to play as a 3D transition of the classics my instinct would probably be to roll through things at that point since that's exactly how I play the genesis games too and it keeps the action moving. As I said before I'd not be opposed to an insta-shield type thing either that would give a little extra range to the jump attack so if you're off by a tiny bit there is still room for a little error.

[ArtFenix]

Really? Are you quite sure of that? Because last I checked, the Adventure era games were widely known for having the worst homing attacks in the history of the franchise - partly out of posessing the strangest glitches imaginable (I've heard mention of HAs in Heroes missing completely and flinging players into a chasm all too frequently, and Sonic '06 I've heard to do everything from simply fail to lock on and do a useless airdash instead, to literally flinging the player into the fucking sun), and partly because of a nagging inability to actually tell the exact distance at which a Homing Attack works properly. Which is, you know, the entire reason the targeting reticule was invented in the first place.

The homing attack in previous games wasn't so good not because of some lock-on sign. In more recent games it was just better executed. Having some element of HUD doesn't make a gameplay element itself much better or not.

When a game is capable of playing itself from anywhere between 15 seconds to a full minute, I'd like to think a series can stand to be a lot less cinematic and a lot more proactive. Seriously, nearly every cinematic appeal I can think of, from camera shifts to scripted sequences, has come at the direct cost of actual gameplay, and this is really no different. A very slight immersion break is a small price to pay for not missing a HA target and falling into a death pit.

You got me wrong. Cinematic feel to me is when I feel like I am a character in his world. When there are sings like the lock-on, it feels more like a game.