Pokemon Anime General Discussion

[Soniman]

I still enjoy XY and wil look forward to the Team FLare arc, but this League was just a disaster, Sawyer's battle was the only really good aspect of it imo.

I also hate this League loss because for awhile it was nice seeing people happy and positive about the anime for a change, thanks writers for shitting that all away lmao

[Big Panda]

Regardless, that Team Flare arc does look pretty damn epic.

[Indigo Rush]

Calling it now. 

Ash saves the day, still isn't champion but the show pulls a "at the end of the day, we're all winners!" 

:,)

[Dejimon11]

They would fucking do that. You know what the worst part is? After all the times Ash has pretty much saved the day his credits still go unnoticed. Meanwhile with May, Dawn and Serena with their goals even tho they don't win people still know who they are. 

[Tori Himemiya]

4 hours ago, FFWF said:

I don't even watch the anime, but a development like this is hard to ignore.

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Are there any other children's battle-type anime in which the protagonist fails over and over again to fulfil their dreams like this?  It's kind of depressing at this point.  But what strikes me is that, from what I understand - like I said, I don't watch the anime, I'm just following the discussion on this one because it could've been a landmark event - Team Flare are about to unleash their diabolical plot, right?  Well... if the writers wanted Ash to not win, couldn't the battle simply have been interrupted by Team Flare springing their trap, like some people suggested?  Viewers would still have felt cheated, sure, but I don't see that it was necessary to build people's hopes up and then let them down again.  The only way it makes sense to me is if Ash is actually going to have a more fulfilling victory against Lysandre or Zygarde or something at the climax of the series.

It does seem, though, a sure thing now that they won't ever let Ash become champion until they're ready to retire the character as a protagonist.

 

Late reply but I do have an answer for you and its Yugioh Arc V. I need to go into spoiler territory just because Yuya goes through a lot through the series.

Spoiler

So while it starts off like the standard Yugioh series, it turns out Yuya was not only a bullied child but when he gets something special (Pendulum cards in this case) people don't get close to him and considers him to be a cheat for having special cards. Later down the line Yuya gains a dark side to him, which makes him scared of what he'll do next because of how out of control he gets. And finally he gets dragged into an interdimensional war because his girlfriend also got involved and is important to the bad guy's plan. Oh and he gets stuck in a classist city for an entire season and nearly avoided having a mind control chip implanted because the villain ran out time. Things are looking up for him as he recently beat Jack Atlas, causing entire social change for a dimension and managed to make Edo/Aster Phoenix and the Tyler Sisters smile so he hasn't forgotten his goals of making everyone smile but Yuya really gone through shit to get to that point and its only going to get worst from this point on as major characters have been carded, one even doing 'suicide' and the bracelet girls have a mind control parasite in their brains and guess who gets to solve that problem?

Anyways my thoughts on the episode?

Spoiler

I haven't seen the episode yet but news of who won really spread. While they were hyping Ash's win and it would had been cool if Ash won for once but I'm ok with this outcome. Ash may had gotten his strongest team for once and it seems much better than his Unova team (Tepig DA FUK?) but I think it isn't a part of Ash's character arc is to win. I believe its more about the journey and the strength he obtained over the course of his quest to be number 1 and yeah another League loss isn't anything new but at least he didn't lose to someone using fucking Darkrai out of the blue.

 

[Big Panda]

The strength he obtained is then swiftly thrown to the side once the new series starts.

[Sean]

Just please gives us Pokémon Origins: Gold & Silver so we can actually have a protagonist who has their shit together and doesn't get fucked up the ass by shitty writing and mandates.

[Dejimon11]

8 minutes ago, Sean said:

Just please gives us Pokémon Origins: Gold & Silver so we can actually have a protagonist who has their shit together and doesn't get fucked up the ass by shitty writing and mandates.

Here ya go have fun

[Soniman]

At the very least with Gen 7 having no gyms I get to see Ash doing something away from the league cycle of failure for a 3-4 year period, hopefully he suceeds in whatever Alola's League equivalent is.

[Nix]

Spoiler

The fight was fine, a lot of fun to watch.  Goodra jobbed, Pikachu worked, Hawlucha avenged his son.

But Greninja got robbed.

You're seriously telling me that Charizard just sat there and fucking tanked that Water Shuriken?  Not just any Water Shuriken, but a Water Shuriken that was even more ridiculous than the one that it threw in the semi finals?  A Water Shuriken that was more powerful than the one that cut through a fucking Leaf Storm like a hot knife through butter and K.O.'d a well trained Mega Sceptile that had like a x1/4 resistance to it?

and charizard just shakes it off like nothing happened

bullshit

at least make Charizard look like it actually fucking worked for it

 

[Sean]

16 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

Here ya go have fun

I can't believe you would insult me like this.

This is like if I asked for Sonic Battle and you linked to me the two episodes from Sonic X

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Spoiler

Eh I knew Satoshi was going to lose. Because with the writers, if he wins, then they cannot have in do this whole self exploration thing anymore. Do we even know what league champions do after they win the league? We don't. But in their minds, if Satoshi looses then there is more an excuse for him to tour different regions on a journey of self exploration. 

That said, I rather him loose in a smart and tactful way than lose in the most stupidest duex e machina sequence like move ever.

 

[TCB]

Woo boy. Having seen it myself I go this to say:

Spoiler

Did I start to feel the hype of Ash finally winning a League that mattered on the 20th anniversary of the franchise? Yes.

Was I disappointed that he lost when he was so close AND after that battle with Mega Sceptile where AGAINST ALL ODDS typing wise? Yes.

Then finding out they brought the BW writers JUST FOR THIS TWO PARTER, leading to more doubt? Ok now I am laffin.

I used to be so into the anime man. Indigo League I was in that. Orange Islands? That too. Johto League, damn Skippy. But it was from there that I realized the cycle of him never winning when it mattered the most- the "Pokemon League Championship" 

Due to how formulated the anime can be personally stopped caring roughly a decade ago; why be interested in your protagonist and build up false hope time and again and expect to just dust off and give a fake assurance he'll get it next time hahahaha.

Yes I admit I 'came back' just to see this final battle to achieve a nostalgic dream that I'm sure many had since the late 90s, but since it's over and done with I'm not even frustrated just a tad disappointed they couldn't just shake things up a bit given the circumstances. On the other side of the coin given the anime's track record this was just wishful thinking that bubbled up into apathy now I guess.

Even with ALL of that said, that has got to be the most neck and neck battle I've ever seen from Ash and during it all I was really into it for what it was on the surface.(Seeing I had a falling out with the anime during most of Battle Frontier thru BW) Thank how good the battles are animated now it gives the whole thing an extra oomph.

Thank to this thread I kept up to date with the anime, and for the foreseeable future it's likely gonna stay that way, lol. For those who will keep on watching, more power to you; you are the real troopers.

 

[Nix]

17 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

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Eh I knew Satoshi was going to lose. Because with the writers, if he wins, then they cannot have in do this whole self exploration thing anymore. Do we even know what league champions do after they win the league? We don't. But in their minds, if Satoshi looses then there is more an excuse for him to tour different regions on a journey of self exploration. 

That said, I rather him loose in a smart and tactful way than lose in the most stupidest duex e machina sequence like move ever.

 

Spoiler

To answer your question, I think it's been mentioned that the champion of that region's league can participate in a Champion's League of sorts and face off against the region's Elite Four afterwards.  I think most people would be fine with it if Ash lost to one of them or Diantha.

 

[Zaysho]

1 hour ago, Mikyeong said:

But in their minds, if Satoshi looses then there is more an excuse for him to tour different regions on a journey of self exploration. 

While it wouldn't surprise me if the writers do think along these lines, it's the weakest excuse for continuing to roadblock him and constantly throw his and his team's development out the window when a regional League comes around. It's just not the character's mindset, and it'd be like saying because Goku won a Tenkaichi Budokai, he's going to quit fighting. What the writers need to do is change Ash's end goal and stop making these Leagues a bigger deal than they are, because it's clear all the hype around them died a long time ago. These things should be about testing Ash's skills and seeing how far he's come, and if he wins, awesome, if he loses, that's fine too, he put on a good show. It's too bad the show doesn't work like this, but I suppose it is what it is, but it's harder to care about regional Leagues when they keep trashing Ash at the last second like they always do.

I'm not surprised by the results, but it's disappointing because it's just more of the same. Knowing the Best Wishes writers had a hand in this makes me despise that series even more.

Spoiler

I suppose I should be glad he didn't lose to a guy who came out of nowhere and somehow had all Legendaries on his team. :V

 

[Nepenthe]

This entire anime is predicated on a mission statement to reintroduce the same anime we watched back in 96 to new generations of kids who are getting into Pokemon for the first time when the new games come out. They don't really care that it doesn't make sense or is emotionally unsatisfying as a continuous narrative; the point is to give kids some shit to watch for a few years before they inevitably move on to a better anime. It makes more sense to thus consider every major region a reboot or retelling versus any reasonable continuous storyline. As a result, all of the sakuga and better writing in the world should not have fooled anyone into thinking Ash was actually going to take a major canon League. Because he never does, and it doesn't matter what they have to contrive to ensure that outcome. The point is to put Ash in a situation where he isn't the best so he "moves on to new adventures." The sooner people realize this, the better for their emotional health.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Some small part of me hopes:

Spoiler

That it's revealed that Alain's Charizard was given something illegal in-universe by Team Flare to ensure his victory because Team Flare considered Ash enough of a threat that he needed to be neutralized. The discovery of this is enough to invalidate Alain's victory both in the League and Alain's eyes, and after the Team Flare stuff is dealt with, Alain challenges Ash again wanting to fight a fair battle. Then this time Ash wins. The meta reason for the convoluted roundabout win is an attempt to find a loophole around the stupid mandate about Ash never being allowed to win a League.

The alternative is that the sheer disappointment will cause such a massive rating drop and loss of viewers that the Pokemon Anime gets canned.

The other parts of me cynically believe this is utterly unlikely and everything will just reset in Alola.

[Kevin]

God dammit! Of course the writers would pull the kind of shit and make Ash lose right at the final battle! I know it's obviously to set up for the next arc, but for once, just once, I want to see him go all the way!

[Dejimon11]

You know what else bothered me about this?

Spoiler

This is technically Ash's 4th lost against Alain. F O U R T H L O S E! You'd think they'd throw Ash a bone and let him win for once but nope. 

 

[Lord-Dreamerz]

When Ash changes his hat again next season... I think i have the perfect match for him!

[Big Panda]

40 minutes ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

Some small part of me hopes:

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That it's revealed that Alain's Charizard was given something illegal in-universe by Team Flare to ensure his victory because Team Flare considered Ash enough of a threat that he needed to be neutralized. The discovery of this is enough to invalidate Alain's victory both in the League and Alain's eyes, and after the Team Flare stuff is dealt with, Alain challenges Ash again wanting to fight a fair battle. Then this time Ash wins. The meta reason for the convoluted roundabout win is an attempt to find a loophole around the stupid mandate about Ash never being allowed to win a League.

The alternative is that the sheer disappointment will cause such a massive rating drop and loss of viewers that the Pokemon Anime gets canned.

The other parts of me cynically believe this is utterly unlikely and everything will just reset in Alola.

That would be a genuinly interesting plot twist imo.

[Tails spin]

1 hour ago, Nepenthe said:

This entire anime is predicated on a mission statement to reintroduce the same anime we watched back in 96 to new generations of kids who are getting into Pokemon for the first time when the new games come out. They don't really care that it doesn't make sense or is emotionally unsatisfying as a continuous narrative; the point is to give kids some shit to watch for a few years before they inevitably move on to a better anime. It makes more sense to thus consider every major region a reboot or retelling versus any reasonable continuous storyline. As a result, all of the sakuga and better writing in the world should not have fooled anyone into thinking Ash was actually going to take a major canon League. Because he never does, and it doesn't matter what they have to contrive to ensure that outcome. The point is to put Ash in a situation where he isn't the best so he "moves on to new adventures." The sooner people realize this, the better for their emotional health.

This same logic can be applied in reverse. Give him a main League win and then reboot him for the new kids coming in.

The next part of my post is something I was thinking about all day. So it wouldn't  be a continuation of nep's post.

I saw the episode. My  thoughts are bs just bs. Especially the last attack.

Regardless of what the real reason of Ash's continuous league loses are. Why not let him win a League then lose the champions league since it would be his first go at it. 

Plus the big thing here is that it's just a freaking regional league. He would only be the champion of one region not a Pokemon master and on top of that he would just be champion of ______ league number 5000 or something since that _____ was created. And he would be a virtual nobody in the next region.

I mean make it like the games we became champions of kanto. Then we had to start over again in Johto, Hoenn and , Sinnoh, etc. 

The only plus side to this ( and even then I still think it's a double edged sword) is that Ash lost to  a somewhat developed rival. But in all honestly I would have rather him lost to a league rival like richie, Harrison or Tyson.

18 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

When Ash changes his hat again next season... I think i have the perfect match for him!

I'm sorry but that's an insult to Luigi and I will not take it.

Especially when we got this gem

[Nepenthe]

They should've rebooted him after his Orange Island win and given it to a new protagonist that was relevant to the newer games.

[Tails spin]

1 minute ago, Nepenthe said:

They should've rebooted him after his Orange Island win and given it to a new protagonist that was relevant to the newer games.

I can imagine it going the Yugioh route then.

Ash = Yugi , legendary and remembered by many

Jimmy/Ethan = Jaden Yuki , forgotten and at a point no one wishes to remember 

Brendan= Yusei Fudo , guy who had an interesting story arc

[Nix]

24 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

When Ash changes his hat again next season... I think i have the perfect match for him!

Please, just give him his original hat for nostalgia.

He was wearing that L since the beginning.