illogical things in sonic games

[Neo ''2.3'' Hylan-May]

Shadow is the Ultimate Lifeform yet the Biolizard - Shadow's prototype - looks nothing like him.

[Diogenes]

The prototype failed so they made a new design.

[Indigo Rush]

The Biolizard is Shadow's older sister.

[Legendary Emerald]

GIVE ME ATTENTION

Vectors method of attack in Sonic Heroes. Grab a teamate in your crocodile maw, break their spine in one swift, jerking motion, and then toss them at the foes. If that's not the REAL SUPER POWER OF TEAMWORK, then I don't know what is.

Also, Knuckles punches the ground in Sonic Heroes and FUCKING FIREBALLS come out. Even when I was a kid, that shit annoyed me. His fist growing to humongous size in Sonic Adventure was one thing, but explosions? No.

[Badnik Zero]

Shadow is the Ultimate Lifeform yet the Biolizard - Shadow's prototype - looks nothing like him.

Shadow is an enhanced Black Arms alien test tube baby, maybe part hedgehog. He looks just like Doom's Eye in his spines.

Black Doom is a scaly hulkish looking creature with gray skin, and most of his soldiers look like some kind of lizard-bug people.

It's always been my opinion since ShtH that Shadow and the Biolizard are based on different Black Arms subtypes or whatever.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Badnikz

[Indigo Rush]

Shadow is an enhanced Black Arms alien test tube baby, maybe part hedgehog. He looks just like Doom's Eye in his spines.

Black Doom is a scaly hulkish looking creature with gray skin, and most of his soldiers look like some kind of lizard-bug people.

It's always been my opinion since ShtH that they're based on different Black Arms subtypes or whatever.

So is Black Doom the Biolizard's stepfather? What does that make Gerald? The mother?

lol I'm having way too much fun with this.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Indigo Rush

[Badnik Zero]

So is Black Doom the Biolizard's stepfather? What does that make Gerald? The mother?

lol I'm having way too much fun with this.

Ha ha ha. That'd be a great new arc for Shadow's soap opera storyline.

"If Black Doom was my father... then who is my mother? AGHHH, WHO AM I!"

In the end we learn it's Maria, who's really a hedgehog from the future.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Badnikz

[DarkDefeater]

Illogical and very funny.

http://ryoknight.deviantart.com/art/Team-C...looper-25005630

[G-Force]

The Biolizard is the prototype of the Ultimate Life Form created by the ARK scientists on their own, without any outside help. More blatantly, it was their sucky first draft that they managed to put together before Gerald made contact with Black Doom and learned that he had the physical properties they were looking to produce.

Shadow the Hedgehog is a genetically engineered humanoid hedgehog(or whatever you'd prefer to call what Sonic, Amy and Silver are) infused with Black Doom's blood(or DNA, or whatever) in order to produce the desired properties that Project Shadow was specifically started in order to create. His hedgehog nature was more than likely fully intended by Prof. Gerald, while his black and red coloration(and maybe his Chaos Powers, but that's another topic) is a side effect of Black Doom's contribution.

To be blunt, the Black Arms are most likely just a huge Deus Ex Machina created to explain the huge difference between the Biolizard(the prototype) and Shadow the Hedgehog(the final product). The end result is that it works, but is very contrived.

[JezMM]

Actually, I always percieved the Black Arms involvement to come in before the Biolizard was made. Look at the Biolizard... Red and black colouring, just like Shadow and the Black Arms. Well, red and blue colouring, but still the same colouring as the Black Arms troops themselves.

[Gallon]

Illogical and very funny.

http://ryoknight.deviantart.com/art/Team-C...looper-25005630

woah that's true. I never realized that

[Badnik Zero]

To be blunt, the Black Arms are most likely just a huge Deus Ex Machina created to explain the huge difference between the Biolizard(the prototype) and Shadow the Hedgehog(the final product). The end result is that it works, but is very contrived.

Well, I don't really think it needed to be explained at all - Gerald probably went through several stages of experimentation looking for the perfect candidate for his project, the Artificial Chaos might even be part of that research. Black Doom was totally unnecessary.

They back-designed the Black Arms to resemble the Biolizard. I think they did a great job with Doom's Eye and Shadow though. It's pretty cool to realize when you first play the game, which for me was only last year.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Badnikz

[lounge]

Wow, it's funny, because up until until now, I didn't even notice that the black arms troops resembled the biolizard. It's pretty cool. I just wish they mentioned the biolizard in Shadow's game. I'm guessing they didn't because Black Doom wasn't involved with the biolizards creation. If he was, he would have mentioned it.

[G-Force]

Actually, I always percieved the Black Arms involvement to come in before the Biolizard was made. Look at the Biolizard... Red and black colouring, just like Shadow and the Black Arms. Well, red and blue colouring, but still the same colouring as the Black Arms troops themselves.

But if we assume that the Black Arms were involved with both Shadow and the Biolizard, then we put ourselves right back where we started, with a monstrous prototype and a massively different final product and no adequate explanation for how the first leads to the second.

Wow, it's funny, because up until until now, I didn't even notice that the black arms troops resembled the biolizard. It's pretty cool. I just wish they mentioned the biolizard in Shadow's game. I'm guessing they didn't because Black Doom wasn't involved with the biolizards creation. If he was, he would have mentioned it.

Since I don't believe there's any reason to repeat what other people have already said, I just want to say I agree with this.

[Diogenes]

But if we assume that the Black Arms were involved with both Shadow and the Biolizard, then we put ourselves right back where we started, with a monstrous prototype and a massively different final product and no adequate explanation for how the first leads to the second.

Because the Biolizard failed. It's a massive, bloated, amputee lizard that can't be controlled and requires mechanical life support strapped to its back to keep it alive. It's a failure on pretty much every level, so is it any surprise that they'd back up and take an entirely different route?

[Rusty Spy]

But if we assume that the Black Arms were involved with both Shadow and the Biolizard, then we put ourselves right back where we started, with a monstrous prototype and a massively different final product and no adequate explanation for how the first leads to the second.

I assume after the accident that occurred with the Biolizard, the scientist decided to work with a smaller species that could be contained easier if it went out of hand.

[Badnik Zero]

Well Doom's Eye resembles Shadow. I think this was very intentional. The first model was like a genetic freak. So instead of using the common Black Arms creatures, Gerald used something better. Like Doom's Eye. And mixed it with a hedgehog, just because.

[188Eternal]

Well... considering they've been deceased for years, they wouldn't make the most lively guests. Oh ho ho. *booed*

But I could see him planning to invite guests aboard. I think Eggman probably has rich, cool friends that he hangs out with in his off time. He's probably always throwing parties on the Egg Carrier and Death Egg. What a card.

Oh snap! I totally forgot that Maria Robotnik was already murdered prior to the time of SA1 and the first Egg Carrier. Thanks for reminding me.

However, Gerald Robotnik was still alive at that time, wasn't he? Still alive and plotting revenge against the GUN?

Vector holds his comrades in his mouth as they spin in ball mode. How do they not get shredded by his teeth, or rather, how does Vector not break his teeth on his spinning friends?

An even better question would be: Why doesn't his inflatable bubblegum balloon pop when there's strong wind currents all around him? (Like, especially on the final stages of the game where there's huge propellers and ventilation systems.)

I actually wouldn't mind if Blaze were nude aside from just some basic accessories(Gloves, shoes, collar, hair band). LIke you implied, she can still look regal and fancy without a full body covering...there's a lot that can be done with hair styles and fur patterns. Because of her modest build, having her nude wouldn't make her any more sexualized than the male characters.

I've seen fanart of Blaze in a bikini. But unfortunately, it's in black-and-white and lacks colours. Those lazy artists

Shadow is the Ultimate Lifeform yet the Biolizard - Shadow's prototype - looks nothing like him.

Just because 2 creatures are biologically related to each other doesn't necessarily mean that they should automatically have a strong physical resemblence to each another.

A strand of DNA contains lots of different bits, but only one of them is used for determining physical appearance.

So even if they don't resemble each other through physical appearance, Shadow and his prototype could still have resembling personalities, resembling allergies, resembling mood swings, etc.

[Diogenes]

However, Gerald Robotnik was still alive at that time, wasn't he? Still alive and plotting revenge against the GUN?

No, he was long dead by the time SA2 rolled around, which would make him still long dead during SA.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Illogical things, you say?

Chronicles. The destruction of the Nocturnus at the hands (tentacles) of Argus. The little cutscene shows the Nocturne being sucked into the Cage... BUT IF, as Shade attests, the Nocturnus had "nearly colonized the entire rest of the world" by this time, is just the loss of the Nocturne really going to be that bad for them? Sure, their capital city's been ripped away into the void, but in the WORST case this just means they've lost their government and largest Gizoid-production facilities. That in itself is not liable to cause the entire species to die out. Maybe a couple o' centuries of political turmoil and Dark Ages, but having your capital stolen is not an extinction event.

Wassup with that?

[Badnik Zero]

Do you mean that the disappearance of the Nocturnus caused the extinction of Echidnas? Pachacamac's tribe lasted 4000 years until Knuckles, even managed to survive the destruction of Chaos. Their civilization was changed forever, but they survived.

All of the Nocturnus were relocated to the Twilight Cage, not just those at the seat of the empire. They talk about the Nocturnus in different ways throughout the game, but at one point Knuckles says they'd conquered much of the known world, which is dialogue I think was included in there to avoid issues like this. And if that creates problems with the size of the actual Nocturne area in the game, I say the most powerful nation doesn't need to be the largest at all. They had Gizoids, which probably spelled dominance.

Here's something that annoyed me about Chronicles. You find out in the late game about the time differences between the Cage and Sonic's world, but some of the alien leaders speak like they've been there for ages. They keep talking about "many years" and so on. I feel like it was only added to make the final fight more epic.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Badnikz

[188Eternal]

OK, here's something that totally puzzles me every time:

Why or how has the Angel Island shrunk and altered its appearance between S3&K and between SA1?

Edited May 16, 2009 by DarkJedi188

[Diogenes]

OK, here's something that totally puzzles me every time:

Why or how has the Angel Island shrunk and altered its appearance between S3&K and between SA1?

Uuugh.

Angel Island didn't shrink. The wall next to the train station is the side of Angel Island. Ice Cap, Red Mountain, the bit with the shrine, and everything you can see from there are part of Angel Island, as well as there being more of it that you just can't get to. You can even see it's still huge in a few cutscenes.

As for it looking different, they probably didn't want to show things like an Egyptian-style desert and a giant carnival when those places don't actually show up in the game.

Edit: Now that I think about it, why in the three green hells is there a city-sized carnival on Angel Island? Pretty much everything else is either natural, presumably built by the echidnas, or obviously built by Eggman...I suppose maybe it's the doc's first attempt at creating an "Eggmanland" in the sense it's used in Unleashed?

Edited May 16, 2009 by Diogenes

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Do you mean that the disappearance of the Nocturnus caused the extinction of Echidnas? Pachacamac's tribe lasted 4000 years until Knuckles, even managed to survive the destruction of Chaos. Their civilization was changed forever, but they survived.

OK, I didn't articulate it all that well. What I meant was that the disappearence of the Nocturne (that's that ONE city) shouldn't have caused the downfall of the entire Nocturnus civilization, which, insofar as I recall, Shade says had conquered most of the rest of the world.

Although if it was just the KNOWN world, then fine. And maybe they only "conquered" it in the sense that they were nominally in charge, and exerted infulence over other allied kingdoms and whatnot. I dunno...

All of the Nocturnus were relocated to the Twilight Cage, not just those at the seat of the empire.

I don't recall Chronicles ever saying that; and indeed, the pic of the Nocturne (CITY) getting Cage'd even shows one echidna jumping to safety. Argus would have had to be PRETTY DAMN SPECIFIC to scoop up every last Nocturnus echidna from the whole world, and I'm loath to ascribe that level of functional omnipotence to him while I can possibly avoid it.

Here's something that annoyed me about Chronicles. You find out in the late game about the time differences between the Cage and Sonic's world, but some of the alien leaders speak like they've been there for ages. They keep talking about "many years" and so on. I feel like it was only added to make the final fight more epic.

Not a problem. I think the Codex actually SAYS that on some worlds (i.e. Sonic's), one minute of Cage-time might equal a week of outside-time, but it also says that for some the relation is the other way round, and a year of Cage-time might be only a second of outside time.

The quote about times in the cage comes from Thebes during the Conference, I think, when he says "We have fought each other for thousands of years". He's probably referring to subjective, in-Cage time, but I guess he could be talking about outside time - in which case thousands of years" could mean merely decades inside... or MILLIONS of years. But I don't think we can really be sure.

One other point; Foreman Krag states that he personally remembers being taken from his homeworld, AND the Codex says that the Kron have been in the Cage the longest. Which either means they havn't been there that long at all, or that Kron are VERY long-lived. But given that they're made out of rock, I suppose they could last thousands of years...

OK, here's something that totally puzzles me every time:

Why or how has the Angel Island shrunk and altered its appearance between S3&K and between SA1?

Just assume it was a bad camera angle in SA1 that made it look much smaller than it really is.

ADDENDUM:

Edit: Now that I think about it, why in the three green hells is there a city-sized carnival on Angel Island? Pretty much everything else is either natural, presumably built by the echidnas, or obviously built by Eggman...I suppose maybe it's the doc's first attempt at creating an "Eggmanland" in the sense it's used in Unleashed?

I once tried to fanfic-explain away Casino and Carnival Night Zone as massive Bayesian probability calculators that Fatso's using for SCIENCE on number theory and the effect that Chaos Emeralds have on the laws of chance. Until someone pointed out to me that Carnival Night Zone dosn't actually have any slot machines.

Damn.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Frozen Nitrogen

[Rusty Spy]

Angel Island didn't shrink. The wall next to the train station is the side of Angel Island. Ice Cap, Red Mountain, the bit with the shrine, and everything you can see from there are part of Angel Island, as well as there being more of it that you just can't get to. You can even see it's still huge in a few cutscenes.

But whats even weirder is that the island with the Master Emerald is clearly floating in the air. And this is during the entire game, even when the ME is broken and when every other part of the island is on the ground.

Edited May 17, 2009 by VirgoTheCougar