Sonic generations open world gameplay

[Soniman]

...more so in Sonic Adventure 2.

[Kuzu]

There is really nothing wrong with it. At this point its personal pref...and I'ma be honest but I know for a fact that you haven't played Unleashed you have stated this many many times...

There is a BIG difference from watching and playing...and while I am no where near saying that the boosting in Unleashed is flawless it was full of many issues the way it was used, but its basic principle of how its handles is the same idea as the spindash... Especially in the SA games good god...more so in Sonic Adventure 2.

[Voyant]

Seriously? I recall the spindash being seriously nerfed in terms of effectiveness. For instance, it cannot be spammed to fuckery due to the summersault, not to mention it is far less slower that its SA1 counterpart. It also only has the power to kill one enemy at a time, unlike SA1 and its ability to "chain" hits from badniks.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Voyant

[Eternal EX]

YAY another boost sucks. Lets kill off boost topic.

[Soniman]

How is this ANY different from boosting? (speaking of the long corridor runways)

[Voyant]

The level design was built in a way that turned the Spindash into something "boost like". And notice how the hallway goes downward and the spindash acting in a manner similar to actual momentum? So it actually makes sense there. And even then the spindash isnt unstoppable, it can easily be halted by the ghost

Edited October 18, 2011 by Voyant

[Autoburstfire]

^Not to nitpick, Voy but the spindash is albeit equally borked, it's still more momentum based. The boost is usually constant in its acceleration. Not that I'm saying the boost is bad, I've been trying the rest of this post for the past five minutes, but you lice keep posting.

What Sonicman is saying is, he can choose to use the Spin Dash for practical uses other than going really fast, while with the boost, you have to be in a certain part of a level to do it,.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Autoburstfire

[Kuzu]

I have used the boost in Unleashed and In colors plenty of times for piratical use. Hell what the fuck is "practical use"? You can apply and deny that with pretty much anything. And what the fuck differences is me pressing down on the D-Pad to go faster down the slopes of chemical plant...than me pressing the boost button to go down any kinda slope faster.

Its practically the same shit.

[Autoburstfire]

Don't tell me I typed up an entire wall of text for it to be eaten by last page magic?

[Eternal EX]

The Spin Dash doesn't make you invincible, right? You can't steer while boosting right?

[Kuzu]

Don't tell me I typed up an entire wall of text for it to be eaten by last page magic?

[Indigo Rush]

The boost and spindash are those weird cousins who differ greatly in terms of mechanics, implementation and speed, yet aren't different enough to co-exist within the same play-style. The fact of the matter is that both the boost and spindash are used primarily as a method of gaining speed as well as attacking an enemy. The goal is the same for both, despite there being different methods of attaining said goal. Hold a charge and release for a temporary boost versus holding a button for a consistent boost that's dependent on maintaining ring energy.

One of them is going to have to change enough so that the two can co-exist, and I have yet to think of a good idea aside from the spindash/rolling attack being a replacement for the slide. Gotta have more than that.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[Voyant]

^Not to nitpick, Voy but the spindash is albeit equally borked, it's still more momentum based. The boost is usually constant in its acceleration. Not that I'm saying the boost is bad, I've been trying the rest of this post for the past five minutes, but you lice keep posting.

That's really a factor of level design on both abilities if you ask me. e.g. If you're playing a level that's highway in the sky bound over a bottomless pit, the level is pretty much screaming at you that a boost or a spin dash would probably be a bad idea. Where as a Green Hill Zone or perhaps ideally an open designed level would allow players to decide to use either at their discretion.

^If we're going to jump onto the semantic wagon, one could infer that something working means one can put it to working use. In SA2 it was actually fairly well done and could be used in levels without too much fear of void retribution(Pyramid Cave being the best example, EDIT: Although it could still be used in a glitchy fashion, just not as death invoking). SA1? Between the bugs, collision detection(fuck you Skydeck; still love ya Egg Carrier) it was a safer bet to homing attack enemies and just run standardly. Hell, I recall using the jump dash to gain speed in some instances, although spin cancel was fun, if wrong on every level.

The main problem with boost in terms of enemies isn't that it makes Sonic gg-invincible, it's that most enemies aren't scaled up to compensate in most cases. There are some instances where this was not the case but those were few and far in between.(Egg Shooters could almost hard counter a poor sonic player if not for the incremented ring dropping in unleashed). Melee units like Egg Fighters on the other hand were screwed generally unless they had spring shields or reacted fast enough(only happened Aero Chaser sections and was rare)

The boost actually does have a few neat if intuitively negligible functions.

-It gives you more air time off of speed ramps(often determining whether or not you gain a ring or not)

-You can knock enemies into points of interest when the homing attack can't do a job of it(it'll have the same effect but the trajectory the wayward foe will fly in won't be the same)

-One can quickly avoid attacks with it(mostly happens in chase scenes).

-The difference between a easy jog if the planet weren't broken, and getting chummy with the sharks.

Perchance Generations could find more potential uses for the boost, problem is it's implemented in a fashion that's hard to balance and not being taken full advantage of.

What I'd want to see optimally would be for S-Team run with the creative shift in level design(maybe even logically constructed open ended levels like that one shamar day level, but in an Eggman factory or something) further tweaks to make the boost more balanced, replacing/merging the slide mechanic with a chargeable spin dash(providing a more maneuverable, but slower alternative to the boost), replacing the stomp with SA2 bounce and calling it gg.

And now I haz wall of text.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Voyant

[Eternal EX]

The boost and spindash are those weird cousins who differ greatly in terms of mechanics, implementation and speed, yet aren't different enough to co-exist within the same play-style. The fact of the matter is that both the boost and spindash are used primarily as a method of gaining speed as well as attacking an enemy. The goal is the same for both, despite there being different methods of attaining said goal. Hold a charge and release for a temporary boost versus holding a button for a consistent boost that's dependent on maintaining ring energy.

One of them is going to have to change enough so that the two can co-exist, and I have yet to think of a good idea aside from the spindash/rolling attack being a replacement for the slide. Gotta have more than that.

[Kuzu]

Uh what? Shadic, you may need to go back in time and mess around with SD. I remember being able to just sit in one place and charge it while small enemies run up to you and die. SD and BOOST are not that much different. SD is what classic sonic did in the 90s and Adventure days. BOOST is what our modern sonic has been doing since Unleashed. (2006 if you wanna add that gem *2005 if you wanna say RUSH*) Sonic doesn't SD anymore. So what? It's not like you NEED it to beat all stages. Same goes for SD. He had it back in his day and it was not required to use it all the time. It's just an ability sonic has to change it up a little.

To be fair, you're stationary when you're charging up, not constantly moving forward. Considering the Spin Dash is pretty much Sonic's trademark and signature move, why should I be ok with the fact that its gone? Its like Mario without a Fire Flower, it just doesn't feel right. Yeah, you'll get used to it, but you'll still feel something is missing.

Like I said, my only problem with boosting is how overpowered and broken it is, there's really no need for it to be that powerful, it makes Super Sonic redundant for starters.

[supersaiyanmikito]

The thing about the boost in Generations is keeping it up. In Unleashed, it was handed to you on a silver platter and in Colors, it wasn't really useful. In Generations however, it rarely gives you a good amount outside of Green Hill and it drains like crazy. Try boosting all the way through City Escape. Unless you do the stage PERFECTLY, I guarentee you'll run out half way through the stage and be stuck with normal running. When I say perfectly, I mean crashing through every single last car parked near the sidewalk to gain a small bit of energy.

Seriously, watch this video I recorded at Pax and pay attention to the boost gauge. I was trying my absolute hardest to keep that sucker at a decent amount.

[Eternal EX]

Like I said, my only problem with boosting is how overpowered and broken it is, there's really no need for it to be that powerful, it makes Super Sonic redundant for starters.

Super sonic is still faster and invincible all the time.

[Kuzu]

...what pisses me off is when people treat boosting as if its the evil of all evils or some shit.

So we're not allowed to hate it?

But yeah, whats this topic about?

Super sonic is still faster and invincible all the time.

Boosting already makes you invincible, so whats the point?

Edited October 18, 2011 by Shadic93

[Autoburstfire]

Yeah, my main issue with the boost was that the spin dash was literally left in the dust(lol-pun). The spin dash is a really great move that could, if programmed well, do wonders in a three dimensional environment.

Like the awesome three dimensional environments we're bound to get in this game. I can't wait for that Modern Planet Wisp. It was the greatest cockblock in Sonic History that the original was mostly grinding and 2-D. I wanted to explore those construction sites and devices and so forth. Screw nature though.

That's what this topic is about right? Level design?

Edited October 18, 2011 by Autoburstfire

[Kuzu]

The thing about the boost in Generations is keeping it up. In Unleashed, it was handed to you on a silver platter and in Colors, it wasn't really useful. In Generations however, it rarely gives you a good amount outside of Green Hill and it drains like crazy. Try boosting all the way through City Escape. Unless you do the stage PERFECTLY, I guarentee you'll run out half way through the stage and be stuck with normal running. When I say perfectly, I mean crashing through every single last car parked near the sidewalk to gain a small bit of energy.

Seriously, watch this video I recorded at Pax and pay attention to the boost gauge. I was trying my absolute hardest to keep that sucker at a decent amount.

Mikoto, not everyone is a speedrunner.

[Eternal EX]

Yeah, my main issue with the boost was that the spin dash was literally left in the dust(lol-pun). The spin dash is a really great move that could, if programmed well, do wonders in a three dimensional environment.

Like the awesome three dimensional environments we're bound to get in this game. I can't wait for that Modern Planet Wisp. It was the greatest cockblock in Sonic History that the original was mostly grinding and 2-D. I wanted to explore those construction sites and devices and so forth. Screw nature though.

That's what this topic is about right? Level design?

I have a strong feeling that P. Wisp is still going to be mostly 2D.

[Kuzu]

I have a strong feeling that P. Wisp is still going to be mostly 2D.

Fuck that, we left that shit back in Colors, this Generations, baby.

[Voyant]

I have a strong feeling that P. Wisp is still going to be mostly 2D.

I really hope not...considering that the 3D sections of Colors was poor....also considering its most likely the second to the last level of the game in needs to have the one of the best and most challenging in level design compared to any levels before it...

Edited October 18, 2011 by Voyant

[Autoburstfire]

Yeah, based on review of Sky Sanctuary and Seaside Hill, there would be literally no excuse for another 2-D Modern Planet Wisp.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Autoburstfire

[supersaiyanmikito]

Mikoto, not everyone is a speedrunner.

Thats just it. Players love spamming the boost because its made to be overpowered but unless your really good, that gauge will drop like a brick. I lost count of many runs of CE I watched there where the player runs out of boost before even finishing the snowboard section. Most of the time, they were stuck with no energy what-so-ever during the track chase. Now THAT is brutal.

Edited October 18, 2011 by supersaiyanmikito