Sonic generations open world gameplay

[Eternal EX]

Its getting funny how people are trotting out SSZ and SSH as the holy grail of 3D level design (and id be inclined to agree), but none seem to give actual examples.

I did. I gave a perfect example of a stage. Sky Sanctuary is the best. Seaside Hill is another. Then I'd say City escape. All have great to fantastic platforming and SSZ gives a perfect example of how you can mix both aspects together in a sonic game.

[Diogenes]

A method for speedrunners to test their skills in a heavy platforming game?

That's a pretty crappy reason. A mechanic should have use for all players, not just those on the extreme end.

I did. I gave a perfect example of a stage. Sky Sanctuary is the best. Seaside Hill is another. Then I'd say City escape. All have great to fantastic platforming and SSZ gives a perfect example of how you can mix both aspects together in a sonic game.

I think he meant examples of what they're doing right.

[Eternal EX]

That's a pretty crappy reason. A mechanic should have use for all players, not just those on the extreme end.

Actually I'd have to agree with you there. That was a pretty bad reason. How about so everyone can see sonic reach speeds he only recently was able to.

[Diogenes]

But if the level design doesn't support it, he won't be able to sustain those speeds for more than a second or two before hitting a wall or launching himself into the abyss.

[KHCast]

So what i'm getting is the level design is good but the game mechanics(boost) Don't seem to work with it that well. Am i right on that?

[Kuzu]

The level design is definitely improved, but it still needs work, and I have very little faith in the core mechanics of modern Sonic gameplay.

And by core mechanics we mean boost, get rid of that, and all is well.

[Eternal EX]

But if the level design doesn't support it, he won't be able to sustain those speeds for more than a second or two before hitting a wall or launching himself into the abyss.

True. But from what we've see, most of the stages do work well with it. Chemical plant, Seaside hill, Sky sanctuary, & GHZ are best examples.

I don't know I still think BOOOSH was a great addition to the game. And may it not get nerfed again like colors.

And by core mechanics we mean boost, get rid of that, and all is well.

But many of us (ME) enjoy boost.

[Diogenes]

So what i'm getting is the level design is good but the game mechanics(boost) Don't seem to work with it that well. Am i right on that?

The boost doesn't work well with the good parts of the level design, is the way I'd put it.

[Kuzu]

But many of us (ME) enjoy boost.

But it clashes so much with the level design that its mostly pointless, are you really going to try boosting in the platform heavy parts of Sky Sanctuary or Seaside Hill?

[Autoburstfire]

Just not clicking it while platforming is simply too much effort I guess...

Of course I'm in full agreement with the sentiment that the boost should be less of a perma random mook nulling device and modified into something more intuitively balanced. And for christ's bread they need to rework the bloody spin dash into the the slide mechanic(hold down to charge into the spinning animation maybe? I don't know).

The fact that levels are being designed with less of a demand on the boost is a good sign at least.

[Kuzu]

There's such a thing as being smart with the boost. By now people should know when and when not to boost. It's there when the level design calls for it.

The only time its appropriate to boost are on the extremely boring long hallways, that's not exactly a practical use for it.

[Eternal EX]

But it clashes so much with the level design that its mostly pointless, are you really going to try boosting in the platform heavy parts of Sky Sanctuary or Seaside Hill?

To be honest, I would. I'm crazy like that.

[Voyant]

But it clashes so much with the level design that its mostly pointless, are you really going to try boosting in the platform heavy parts of Sky Sanctuary or Seaside Hill?

I'm sure there is a way to do it. Its hard to not show examples of gameplay without 1) spoilers 2) the game not out yet.

This conversation is still way too early...nothing against Arron, but I'm sure there are much more competent people in this place that can take advantage of boosting in tough terrain.

Also with that same logic you might as well take the Spin Dash out of Sonic 2...since its not even needed the entire game.

To be honest, I would. I'm crazy like that.

Now that the level design is more challenging and harder to use the boost properly it makes the entire idea of boosting fun on a whole new level. It now much more about "Think to Win" than "Bosst To Win" than it ever was in the past modern games and if your a poor booster then you are going to clash with the level design during tough platforming sections.

Its crazy how superior level design can change up the old gameplay and make it so much better.

Its pretty cool to see Sonic Team developing like that. they haven't shown that kind of improvement cycle since Sonic 1>Sonic 2> Sonic 3&K

Edited October 18, 2011 by Voyant

[Autoburstfire]

That and just saying the boost is regulated to hallways is a factor of the level design spoon feeding that form utility. Previous use of the boost involved

*Knocking enemies into targets or simply just plowing into a large group

*Bridging gaps or clearing more distance off of launch pads

*breaking obstacles(or at least I think it was used like that at some point)

There are and perhaps more potential uses for the boost, problem is it's implemented in a fashion that's hard to balance and not being taken full advantage of.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Autoburstfire

[Kuzu]

To be honest, I would. I'm crazy like that.

Enjoy your death and rage then.

I'm sure there is a way to do it. Its hard to not show examples of gameplay without 1) spoilers 2) the game not out yet.

This conversation is still way too early...nothing against Arron, but I'm sure there are much more competent people in this place that can take advantage of boosting in tough terrain.

Also with that same logic you might as well take the Spin Dash out of Sonic 2...since its not even needed the entire game.

The level design in Sonic 2 isn't primarily built around the spin dash, its not filled with a completely straight part where you can spin dash. The Spin Dash has a practical use of getting you up slopes that you can't reach with your normal speed alone, its balanced by it slows you down and speeds you up depending on where you use it, it doesn't make you invincible as you are still vulnerable to enemy attacks, and it can't be spammed preventing it from being overpowered.

The Boost has none of that, levels are designed with straight hallways so you can boost some MOAR. Boost has no practical use outside of making you go fast, and considering that Sonic is already relatively fast without it, its kind of redundant. Its unbalanced by it can destroy anything and everything, be used anywhere, and the fuel for it is so abundant that it guarantees that you won't ever be without it.

I'm not asking for it to be completely gone, but I would like it to get smacked with the Nerf bat please.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Shadic93

[Eternal EX]

When the game comes out, I'll come back with a good example.

[Soniman]

So, is this pretty much another "why the boost is evil" topic now?

[Kuzu]

When the game comes out, I'll come back with a good example.

Of what?

[Mike]

Enjoy your death and rage then.

The level design in Sonic 2 isn't primarily built around the spin dash, its not filled with a completely straight part where you can spin dash. The Spin Dash has a practical use of getting you up slopes that you can't reach with your normal speed alone, its balanced by it slows you down and speeds you up depending on where you use it, it doesn't make you invincible as you are still vulnerable to enemy attacks, and it can't be spammed preventing it from being overpowered.

The Boost has none of that, levels are designed with straight hallways so you can boost some MOAR. Boost has no practical use outside of making you go fast, and considering that Sonic is already relatively fast without it, its kind of redundant. Its unbalanced by it can destroy anything and everything, be used anywhere, and the fuel for it is so abundant that it guarantees that you won't ever be without it.

I'm not asking for it to be completely gone, but I would like it to get smacked with the Nerf bat please.

So why not just get rid of boost and bring back the spindash?

[SuperGuzzi]

for i have seen, you need to play very well to fill the meter (more in the later stages) and it discharge too fast.

[Voyant]

So, is this pretty much another "why the boost is evil" topic now?

Edited October 18, 2011 by Voyant

[Kuzu]

Then add something to those hallways. Make them interesting but find room for the boost, like in that section in Modern Seaside Hill where those giant rocks were rolling back and forth.

[Kuzu]

Forgive me Shadic93 but it seems to me your just complaining about the boost simply because you have rose-tinted glasses (or however you say the phrase). Please tell me when Spindashing in the Adventures were NOT exactly like nerfed boosting. They were spammable as shit in Adventure 1 and it was totally useless in Sonic Adventure 2.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Shadic93

[Soniman]

Forgive me Shadic93 but it seems to me your just complaining about the boost simply because you have rose-tinted glasses (or however you say the phrase). Please tell me when Spindashing in the Adventures were NOT exactly like nerfed boosting. They were spammable as shit in Adventure 1 and it was totally useless in Sonic Adventure 2.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Soniman032-

[Voyant]

No one is saying the level design is bad, hell Dio admitted that the level design is good, its the mechanics behind the boost that we have a problem with, not the boost itself.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Voyant