Eddie Lebron Sonic Movie: New Teaser Trailer!

[SonikkuXM]

 

Uuuuuh... So you're saying this is better? Right? EVERYTHING in the video is a currently existing piece. Ripping models, or using ripped models from a game and throwing them together into a movie doesn't count because that's in general ILLEGAL (because you're stealing but they're not going to really do anything about it) and you didn't make 80% of it yourself. They didn't make anything but the animations. That's easy to do seeing there are a lot of free software nowadays that let you rig and animate ripped models that you can download premade effects for. Kudos on adding sound effects, that's pretty much it. But still, they didn't make anything but the animations. Try again.

 

I'm not saying the video is bad, I like animating models, but if you're trying to argue that this has more effort poured into it, you're highly mistaken. SSMB Sonic, SSMB Super Sonic, Earth can be taken from a variety of games, asteroids from a multitude of games including Sonic, sound effects from various games, that looks like the Generations boss, pretty sure it is. And of course the emeralds are in like every other game. Game rips, go for it. It may look good but it's not your own work.

[DarkLight]

It was more enjoyable than whatever the hell the fan-film was supposed to be. Also, just because it used pre-existing models and music doesn't mean it's not good.

 

 

 

And no, the fact that it doesn't have Sonic speak or that it has Unleashed music playing at one point is the reason why I loved it. It's a short film that reenacts the final boss from S3aK and doesn't feel the need to throw in extra stuff to let viewers know what's going on or what's going to happen. It had me more on the edge of my seat than anything the film attempted and failed at trying.

Edited January 26, 2013 by DarkLightDragon

[SonikkuXM]

It was more enjoyable than whatever the hell the fan-film was supposed to be.

 

And I'm sure a lot of people would agree. But that doesn't change the fact that it's composed of ripped models. They didn't make the pieces themselves. They instead took someone else's hard work and said "Lookit mah pretty video! I made this mahself!!" It's sad that something half assed gets a better review than something completely original like this. There are so many negative critiques compared to just constructive criticism. Everyone's like "YOU SUCK" when you could simply say "I'm sorry, but I don't like this" and then you know... nicely state what you didn't like. To demand them to fix it or get mad at them for something they made themselves is out of the question. And that's... how do you say... Childish. That's the word I'm looking for.

 

Of course if you show this to a little kid they'd probably enjoy it. In a sense they're using effects from years ago before the movie industries buffed up their skills, their knowledge, and technology. Go back and watch a movie with special effects from like twenty years ago. Biiiig difference.

 

You know, in one of the old cartoon episodes Sonic's quills were more resembled to hair than they were anything else. He could style them. Maybe that's the look they were trying to achieve?

[Tani Coyote]

Really I just don't get the hate on the Sonic model. I actually think it looks a lot better than it did in the early phases. I remember there's two versions of that commercial with the ring rolling... one the model looks awful and the next it looks pretty nice.

 

Really, I think the biggest pitfall for the fanfilm was the real life setting. The models all look fairly good, and had it been pure CGI it probably would have made the piece look much better.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

It was more enjoyable than whatever the hell the fan-film was supposed to be. Also, just because it used pre-existing models and music doesn't mean it's not good.

 

 

Ummmm...I don't understand what was going on in that video to be honest.

[Abominal SnowTaz]

Really I just don't get the hate on the Sonic model. I actually think it looks a lot better than it did in the early phases. I remember there's two versions of that commercial with the ring rolling... one the model looks awful and the next it looks pretty nice.

 

Really, I think the biggest pitfall for the fanfilm was the real life setting. The models all look fairly good, and had it been pure CGI it probably would have made the piece look much better.

It's just the mouth movement I don't find favorable. The model was "fair" for me.

[Tani Coyote]

Yeah I agree at times the mouth looked a bit odd. Overall a minor imperfection compared to putting it against a real background, though.

 

I still wonder if this would have gone over better had it been purely animated.

[Solkia]

Uuuuuh... So you're saying this is better? 

 

For an animation with no budget compared to a short film WITH a budget?

 

Yeah, it sure as hell is.

 

It really annoys me when people dismiss legitimate criticism with "lol you can't do better"

 

That's not an argument. It never will be an argument. Stop acting like it is an argument.

[Abominal SnowTaz]

Yeah I agree at times the mouth looked a bit odd. Overall a minor imperfection compared to putting it against a real background, though.

 

I still wonder if this would have gone over better had it been purely animated.

 A fully animated CGI movie would have been the best option definitely. Video games and live action settings in film can be tricky. Good example of CGI is Wreck-it Ralph. Bad example of live action is Mario Bros.

 

It's also about source material, which the fan film had, but tried too hard.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Abominal Taz

[SonikkuXM]

Really I just don't get the hate on the Sonic model. I actually think it looks a lot better than it did in the early phases. I remember there's two versions of that commercial with the ring rolling... one the model looks awful and the next it looks pretty nice.

 

Really, I think the biggest pitfall for the fanfilm was the real life setting. The models all look fairly good, and had it been pure CGI it probably would have made the piece look much better.

 

He's cute! Reminds me of the werehog a little bit. I admit the mouth thing is a tad odd from certain angles, but at the same time I find that it kind of matches Jaleel White's voice acting. It gives him... I dunno... a little more personality? Something? Not sure what would be appropriate to describe it. Don't ask lol

 

They've definitely got the right idea with the CGI scene at the end, but there are a lot of people trying to push the bar with special effects and adding it to a real life scene. When you can get the CGI and the real life scenes to mix and blend, it can be pretty amazing. I noticed Sonic's model shifts a bit when it zooms in on him after he saves the GUN soldiers, otherwise they did pretty well. The lighting and composition is good.

For an animation with no budget compared to a short film WITH a budget?

 

Yeah, it sure as hell is.

 

It really annoys me when people dismiss legitimate criticism with "lol you can't do better"

 

That's not an argument. It never will be an argument. Stop acting like it is an argument.

 

RIPPED MODELS ARE LIKE A SLAP IN THE FACE you're not seeing my point. This is more of what I'm getting at. Someone who made everything they're sharing in their video. Try picking something that's not full of stolen crap and I'll be more likely to say "Okay, ya, I get your point." I don't like it when people make a better reputation for themselves by using other people's things. It's not cool, ya?

 

 

I'm not trying to dismiss anything, and I'm not trying to MAKE it an argument. If I was I'd still be violently ranting about it. It just makes sense. You can't understand something until you've truely done it yourself.

[Solkia]

RIPPED MODELS ARE LIKE A SLAP IN THE FACE you're not seeing my point. 

 

That's because it's a moot point. Sonic Team themselves does the same damn thing with most of the 3D games. Movie Producers reuse costumes and props all the time.

 

Shit, look at Night of the Werehog. CG models ripped straight from Unleashed. Or not. The point still stands.

 

Using resources available to you isn't a slap in the face, it's being smart.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Underaged Hot Anime Girl

[Tani Coyote]

 A fully animated CGI movie would have been the best option definitely. Video games and live action settings in film can be tricky. Good example of CGI is Wreck-it Ralph. Bad example of live action is Mario Bros.

 

Yeah, short of really high end technology, I can't really see Sonic blending in well with real life settings. Never mind he has weird proportions and then all the humans are all anatomically correct. It just looks very strange.

 

Though I also meant a drawing-based animation. I predict they could have squeezed a lot out of their budget if they stuck to good ole fashioned non-CGI animation. There's no shortage of artists in the fandom, and I'm sure they could have come together nicely.

 

He's cute! Reminds me of the werehog a little bit. I admit the mouth thing is a tad odd from certain angles, but at the same time I find that it kind of matches Jaleel White's voice acting. It gives him... I dunno... a little more personality? Something? Not sure what would be appropriate to describe it. Don't ask lol

 

They've definitely got the right idea with the CGI scene at the end, but there are a lot of people trying to push the bar with special effects and adding it to a real life scene. When you can get the CGI and the real life scenes to mix and blend, it can be pretty amazing. I noticed Sonic's model shifts a bit when it zooms in on him after he saves the GUN soldiers, otherwise they did pretty well. The lighting and composition is good.

 

Jaleel as the voice was certainly nostalgic if nothing else. I don't get the panning of his performance; it seemed well enough for what he did. Probably the best scene in the movie was where the female soldier was crushing on him; I assume a reference to Sonic's tendency to hitch up with humans.

 

A CGI/real life blend can look amazing indeed; I just don't think they had the equipment, money or labor to create such high-end CGI. The CGI definitely looks wonderful when it's on top of itself, but when put on a real life background it just looks strange. Though I didn't really walk into this expecting talking hedgehogs and giant airships to look real.

 

Hence my belief that if they make a sequel, real life should be kept to a minimum. I just fear that a pure CGI film would probably rack up the budget requirements like no tomorrow. It takes a lot more time to create all those models than if someone drew and inked the same scene, I imagine.

[Tara]

That's because it's a moot point. Sonic Team themselves does the same damn thing with most of the 3D games. Movie Producers reuse costumes and props all the time.

 

Shit, look at Night of the Werehog. CG models ripped straight from Unleashed.

 

Using resources available to you isn't a slap in the face, it's being smart.

How do I "love" a post?

 

Anyway, as for my opinion on the model, the mouth was terrible, and the eye movement was a tad awful, but I really can't stand the fuzzy look.  I know MOAR REALISTIC and all, but Sonic isn't realistic and for good reason, and even if it wasn't the fuzziness, his coat is too dark.  He looks like a poorly-stitched ragdoll that's been smothered in dirt for too long   With that said, the Sonic model isn't as bad as it COULD have been,but it's not necessarily good, either.  You could say that reusing would have been lazy, but you know what?  It would have been a lot more visually appealing.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Akito

[---]

 They didn't make anything but the animations. That's easy to do seeing there are a lot of free software nowadays that let you rig and animate ripped models that you can download premade effects for. Kudos on adding sound effects, that's pretty much it. But still, they didn't make anything but the animations.

Alright here's where I step in and draw the line, now you're just being stubborn and trying not to lose. Do you even lift know the amount of effort that goes into just animating alone, let alone animating with another dimension to work with? Obviously not. And don't get me STARTED on the rigging, there are SO many variables to rigging a model properly that let's it match up to how you want the character to move and animate, I STILL haven't gotten it right after months. Premade effects? NOPE. Those were particle effects made within the software from a particle emitter. He also (presumably) used the software's paintbrush tool to create the stars and other background pieces (or he used another method involving texturing, but anywho), I believe he made the Death Egg as well. Also, I can see the UV mapping/texturing on the Earth, as well as the comets he modeled and textured himself. There's a reason he didn't make a part 2, because it's back breaking labor even with downloaded models. Also there's brutal rendering times and adjusting the setting to get your finished product to look as good as it can withing a decent amount of time. (oh, and he used Autodesk Maya, a software that costs thousands of dollars btw)

WHEW that was an ignorant statement, PFFFT, please just quit while you're behind bro. *drops mic*

EDIT: And do I prefer original models? Yea! I like to see the effort and creativity of others, in fact I encourage it. But to say that ALL this dude did was add sound effects, and treat the actual FLUID animation (process) like it's nothing big? Nope nope nope, not even.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Extruder

[SweeCrue]

Shit, look at Night of the Werehog. CG models ripped straight from Unleashed.

I hate to be Nitpick'y Perry over here, but...

 

Not sure why they changed the teeth.

[Tani Coyote]

Possibly to make him less initmidating!

 

Darn shame. I think sharp teeth are pretty cool.

 

I think the Werehog mentioning is apt as it's comparable to their take on Sonic in this one, except the Werehog is fluffy whereas the movie's Sonic is just more spiny.

[Nepenthe]

I'm not sure that's the same exact model. The facial construction looks different, most notable in the expressions Sonic was capable of making in the short. Also, you guys noted the teeth as well. If it is the exact same in the short, then good job to the riggers, because the two Werehogs always looked different to me.

[Badnik Mechanic]

You can't understand something until you've truely done it yourself.

 

Ah!

 

In that case, I am probably qualified to comment then since I have made a few films when I was at uni.

 

So far your entire argument against people criticising it has been 'it's low budget!' Yes marvellous, splendid, very good.... . ...Except the vast majority of complaints are not about the stuff that would demand a high budget, they're about basic camera work, editing and... everything else which budget isn't really that big of an issue.

 

Heres a list of problems with the movie which budget is not a factor or an incredibly small factor which I'm not posting for the third time in this topic...

 

 

Sonic's design/look.

Knuckles design/look.

The cinnematography.

Editing.

Music choice/placement.

The story.

Casting (considering the names they got, I fail to see how badget was an issue on this).

The acting (James Rolfe looks like he's trying not to burst out laughing at the absurdity of his dialogue, the crowd in 'new york' don't have any reaction at all to the Egg fleets arrival, and Eggmans orgasm is... well.. just look at it).

The directing.

 

 

The spoiler contains what I said on January 10th after the film was uploaded, and again, I tried not to criticise it based on budget.

 

The internet cameos... This is bad casting in a nutshell, those guys have so much baggage and so little was done to disguise it was them you don't see them playing characters, you see the Angry Videogame Nerd and Nostalgia Critic. Get unknown actors to play these roles so it's more belivable, if you must have a cameo, limit it to one person.

 

Little details were missing. Just tiny things that make you aware you're watching CGI. Like when the robots crash down to the ground... does any of the forest floor get disturbed? Nope. When the gun soldiers are running away, is there any sign of weapons fire even though we hear it? Nope. When the Motobugs are driving through the forest, it looks like they're floating over it, no shadow effects, no sign of the forest being disturbed.

 

It felt that so much had been put into making the robots look good, the things that make them belivable were just lost.

 

The acting that the GUN Soldier actors were really bad. Not to mention epically young for soldiers?

 

Sonics voice actor is bad. Sorry, but he is, Sonic no longer sounds like that, his voice actors over the years sound totally different to Jahl White, at times it was cringe worthy when Sonic did speak.

 

My goodness... Robotnik really likes those monologues.

 

Who exactly is this supposed to be appealing to? We had shots and entire sequences that were more or less lifted from Sonic Adventure. We have Kintobor mentioned, Robotnik, Mobius. It's just a mess and doesn't flow well at all. Pick a universe and stick to it.

 

Music, did any of it fit? Yes it was nice music, but did it fit what Sonic is? Did it even fit what SatAM was?

 

Now anything else I say is probably going to be stepping into the area of 'big budget' or professional so I'd better not... However... don't forget that just because this was a fan made movie remember this. They asked and are still asking for donations to the movie. Some people actually paid money towards this and I've gotta say, a lot of really bad decisions were made and it shows, even for a fan made product

 

Take any camera, be it a highly expensive beast of a thing, or a mobile phone which can only record a few seconds of footage. Whilst there is a drop in FPS and quality of the footage as well as resolution, when it comes to the basics of making a film there is very little difference in how you move and opperate the camera.

 

The design choices of the characters, thats got nothing to do with the budget, if you have the money to make what they did, why on earth didn't they design the characters so they actually looked right?

 

The bad acting/directing. Why was it so hard, or so costly since the 'low budget' defence is being used to excuse every problem... for the director to say the following line during the Egg fleet invasion scene.

 

"So feel the rumbles, and you look up, at first you look in awe! Then you start to feel scared, then 'you' start to panic which causes some of the others to get worried, then 'you' run and others start to follow you, everyone else just do what you feel is right and we'll go from there"

 

But no instead we got this.

 

"Thats the Egg Fleet..... ... ... ... so look at it and... .. .. .it's over there."

 

And how much does it cost to say this.

 

"Ok James thats a good take, but could you do it with a bit less comedy now?"

 

And what budget excuse was there for this directorial note not being given?

 

"Ok Eggman... Could you tone it down a bit, your being a bit less Kintobor and more Kinto-Porno?"

 

Have I mentioned yet how the movie is set in the year 4013 only everything except for Eggman is blatently present day?

 

And then you get to other things too which don't require budget. The research, exactly how much was done? Because it feels like very little was done, and what research was done was for stuff which is considered wrong or inaccurate.

 

It feels like the director watched 2 episodes of SatAM, watched the intro to Sonic Adventure online and then declared himself an expert in all things Sonic. Evidence of this is the portrayal of Robotnik in this film. It's so clearly SatAM Robotnik in every way. Whilst cool is not Eggman. Eggman is far more wacky and silly in his plans, Robotnik is not. He's more malicious and cruel... so why has he gone for the wrong Eggman?

 

When has Eggman in the videogames ever acted like that? Even in Sonic 06 he was never at the same scale of SatAM robotnik, even in SA2 when he goes on his killing spree he's still a bit goofy.

 

How Sonic acts in the film is downright odd at times 'Oh hey I'm just going to flirt with this teenage girl' Erm no! No Sonic! You don't do that and you've never done that and before someone says Sonic 06... no. Sonic never went there in that game, even if you want to see something between elise and Sonic, it all comes from Elise.... Meanwhile in SatAM and AOSTH, I frankly lost count with the number of times you saw Sonic's tongue down another girls throat.

 

Eggmans orgasm. Eggman has at times 'won' or his plans have gone his way. In every game portrayal he has never acted in how the movie potrays him, He has always laughed like a goof or behaved silly. Example of this is Sonic Unleashed's opening when he starts laughing crazilly after capturing Sonic and.... GETTING ALL THE EMERALDS! So why is he having an orgasm when a robot randomly brings him one emerald in this film?

 

None of that has anything to do with budget, it's poor research. What did he do, watch some of the cartoons and decide he was an expert? Because it doesn't feel like he played the games.

[lounge]

The last time I saw something this awful and embarrassing was the Hero of Time Fan Film from 2009. It was hard to take this seriously. And Jaleel White sounded awful. Trying way too hard to sound so 90's. The line where he first says "WAY past cool huh" just left me speechless at the delivery.

Nothing interesting happens the whole 18 minutes. Sonic looks awful. Animators were clearly newbies.

Did Yuji Naka really like this film?! I hope other sonic team members don't see this. I'm just glad they're not trying to play this in theaters to promote it like they did with the Zelda one.

[Abominal SnowTaz]

I'm just glad they're not trying to play this in theaters to promote it like they did with the Zelda one.

Pardon? There's a Zelda Fan Film?

Edited January 22, 2013 by Abominal Taz

[lounge]

Pardon? There's a Zelda Fan Film?

just google it. I was hyped for it, but couldn't believe how awful it was.

[SonikkuXM]

Alright here's where I step in and draw the line, now you're just being stubborn and trying not to lose. Do you even lift know the amount of effort that goes into just animating alone, let alone animating with another dimension to work with? Obviously not. And don't get me STARTED on the rigging, there are SO many variables to rigging a model properly that let's it match up to how you want the character to move and animate, I STILL haven't gotten it right after months. Premade effects? NOPE. Those were particle effects made within the software from a particle emitter. He also (presumably) used the software's paintbrush tool to create the stars and other background pieces (or he used another method involving texturing, but anywho), I believe he made the Death Egg as well. Also, I can see the UV mapping/texturing on the Earth, as well as the comets he modeled and textured himself. There's a reason he didn't make a part 2, because it's back breaking labor even with downloaded models. Also there's brutal rendering times and adjusting the setting to get your finished product to look as good as it can withing a decent amount of time. (oh, and he used Autodesk Maya, a software that costs thousands of dollars btw)

WHEW that was an ignorant statement, PFFFT, please just quit while you're behind bro. *drops mic*

EDIT: And do I prefer original models? Yea! I like to see the effort and creativity of others, in fact I encourage it. But to say that ALL this dude did was add sound effects, and treat the actual FLUID animation (process) like it's nothing big? Nope nope nope, not even.

 

I'm having a debate, not a contest. I'm stating my side of the argument/debate, and then people are entitled to their own side of the argument/debate. And I've attempted to rig models, I know how difficult it is. I know how annoying it is to even make a decent run animation. That's why I respect the creators. At the same time it just irritates me because then again, there are websites you can go to download fully rigged models. I'm not saying the guy didn't rig them himself.

 

Also I realize the crappy camera work or whatever, I just choose to look at the bright side. I can't use cameras at all, I suck at it. Last time I recorded something I had maybe ten seconds where I wasn't shaking, otherwise nope. It was pretty bad. I've worked behind the scenes of a few small productions so far on an internship with my university with minor things, nothing big. So forgive me, I apologize. I just try to see things from an artist's perspective. And sometimes I can be a little bit of a derp.

 

And wait. Is that the Zelda fan film with the Link who was allergic to horses that the project had been said to have seized??? Or am I completely off? WHERE IS THIS VIDEO I WANNA SEEEEEE lol

[Nepenthe]

I just have to say; having access to pre-made assets does not make a work any lesser. My animation classes use models that are already premade, and the students spend time filming themselves and looking at other reference to analyze behavior and mechanics, deliberating on key poses, sketching things out, running the model through the wringer to get good silhouettes, improvising things, scrapping stuff and starting over, working long nights, and showing it off to teachers with experience and credits that would make some of you piss yourselves if you had to stand in front of them. The work we pour into our assignments is not trivialized by the fact that we didn't create our pieces entirely from scratch. If the animation is good in the end, that's all that matters. Of course you get brownie points if you're a modeling, rigging, and animating generalist. I'd certainly love to be one (but rigging is not a friend of mine). But if your ultimate animation blows, then your piece has still failed as an animation regardless.

[SonikkuXM]

I just have to say; having access to pre-made assets does not make a work any lesser. My animation classes use models that are already premade, and the students spend time filming themselves and looking at other reference to analyze behavior and mechanics, deliberating on key poses, sketching things out, running the model through the wringer to get good silhouettes, improvising things, scrapping stuff and starting over, working long nights, and showing it off to teachers with experience and credits that would make some of you piss yourselves if you had to stand in front of them. The work we pour into our assignments is not trivialized by the fact that we didn't create our pieces entirely from scratch. If the animation is good in the end, that's all that matters. Of course you get brownie points if you're a modeling, rigging, and animating generalist. I'd certainly love to be one (but rigging is not a friend of mine). But if your ultimate animation blows, then your piece has still failed as an animation regardless.

 

I like to try to animate little things, I could never be an animator myself. And I've seen people use 3D models as a reference for traditional works as well, drawing frames for animations. I can see where that would come in handy. I'd love to work with models, I've tinkered around with a few programs, and even if I can make the piece in the end, there's no way in hell I can even begin to comprehend how to rig it. I tried and the model... er... well it didn't work, that's for sure. I could maybe animate if I could sit still for ten minutes without fidgeting with every little thing. My attention span is that of a five year old's half the time when I have to continually work on something with my face up against a computer screen all day. My eyes don't like computer screens. Nuh-uh. Does an actual class consist of all aspects of creating and animating a figure at times? Or are you just animating period???

[Nepenthe]

In my school, Digital Form, Space, and Lighting I and II, Character Set-Up, and Advanced Character Set-Up will have you either create a 3D character from scratch or rig a static model before animating a few seconds. You're also responsible for getting workable character models up and running for 3D Production, as well your Senior Film classes if you're ambitious enough and want to do a 3D short instead of 2D one. Other classes, however, focus just purely on character performance, so we're not required to do anything but animate. However, we can always opt in our own models and rigs if we so choose and have the time to do so. 

Point being, whether we're starting from the beginning or merely being handed a finished model, we still work our asses off to get some good animation, and our animation doesn't lose any inherent quality if we use a rig we didn't build. xP

Edited January 22, 2013 by Nepenthe