The Status Quo.

[Chaos Nightmare Moon]

Sonic vs. Shadow is all the status quo I need.

Eternal Rivals to the bitter end and equals.

[Kuzu]

Sonic vs. Shadow is all the status quo I need.

Eternal Rivals to the bitter end and equals.

Except they're not fighting till the bitter end so..

Are you even aware of the subject of the topic?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I never said it was hard, it just needs to be handled right.

I know you didn't. I was giving an example of how you can apply the interaction in another case without being gradual or forced.

[Kuzu]

I know you didn't. I was giving an example of how you can apply the interaction in another case without being gradual or forced.

Question though would it last? Would this be a one time deal or would this be something that develops for the two?

[Tatsumaki]

Yes, I totally agree with you. But like Scar said, I think Sonic Team should calm down for a year or two.

I remember Sonic Battle, which was just plain awesome with the way different characters associated with one another. Something along the lines of that would be something I'd love to see in future Sonic titles, without making it look like some overly cheesy and badly written fanfic.

I'd also like some good, solid, Sonic gameplay. The Unleashed formula works, but I'd like it if they used the next gen consoles to their advantage. Make the game look even more beautiful. Add some variety with things,like putting stage-exclusive gimmicks.Don't make it mostly 2D like Colors was, but don't make these parts be total drift-fests (Mazuri, Act 1, though I don't blame it much, as it's the introduction of the Drifting in the game; and Arid Sands Act 1). And also have different routes for people who want to Speed Run, Explore, or simply collect Rings and just get to the goal.

However, I have to disagree with the whole thing of making x and y characters optional. I dunno; maybe it's just my overanalytical side that's just screaming this: Why would we make said characters optional, if the gameplay is solid and works? It'd make me rather pissed, ya know. And, most importantly, if what you're asking for is for SEGA getting out of their comfort zone, of which also consists on making Knuckles, Tails, Amy, Shadow, and Rouge as optional characters is the very definition of "playing it safe". Fans that complain about those characters' existence will still complain, regardless of them being obligatory, optional, or just on-screen characters. One should might as well make the gameplay interesting and fun, and have a connection with the plot. That's just my opinion about it, though. Feel free to tackle it if you want.

And yeah. That's it. It's all I have to say.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Tatsumaki

[Smock]

*Sees topic title*

*Makes High School Musical reference*

[Kuzu]

However, I have to disagree with the whole thing of making x and y characters optional. I dunno; maybe it's just my overanalytical side that's just screaming this: Why would we make said characters optional, if the gameplay is solid and works? It'd make me rather pissed, ya know. And, most importantly, if what your asking for is for SEGA to make them get out of their comfort zone, making Knuckles, Tails, Amy, Shadow, and Rouge as optional characters is the very definition of "playing it safe". Fans that complain about those characters' existence will still complain, regardless of them being obligatory, optional, or just on-screen characters. One should might as well make the gameplay interesting and fun, and have a connection with the plot. That's just my opinion about it, though. Feel free to tackle it if you want.

I don't see how making them optional is playing it safe. For anyone wants to play as them they can go ahead, but I what if I want to play through the whole game as Sonic alone? Them being optional gives you that freedom to do what you want. S3&K did this wonderfully, I don't see why it can's be done again.

[Tatsumaki]

I don't see how making them optional is playing it safe. For anyone wants to play as them they can go ahead, but I what if I want to play through the whole game as Sonic alone? Them being optional gives you that freedom to do what you want. S3&K did this wonderfully, I don't see why it can's be done again.

Allow me to rephrase what I said earlier.

What I meant with this is, some people are furious that Sonic is the only playable character lately (guilty as charged), but there's also some people who were furious about having to play as multiple characters in order to advance further in the game's plot because of boring gameplay. (SA's Big the Cat.)

By making different gameplay elements that don't stray far from Sonic's gameplay, works well, and has variety, but makes it optional just gets me. If the gameplay works, and is guaranteed to make people enjoy it, why make it optional? Personally, I'd be pretty annoyed to see Tails have his own levels that are nothing short of amazing, but his running through the levels just have nothing to do with the plot. You get what I mean? Sorry if I'm not making sense, I've got tons of stuff going on in my mind right now. xD

As for S3&K, you are somewhat correct, but not entirely. Since it's the 16bit times we're talking about, character selection that was executed perfectly well in later games like Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, Sonic Heroes, and Sonic 06, didn't work well in S3&K.In a certain way, yes; Knuckles is an optional character. But when you look at it in another perspective, Knuckles is obligatory. Knuckles has a plot, entirely different from Sonic and Tails's. If you wanted to understand the plot in its entirety, you had to beat both Sonic's/Tails's and Knuckles's games, which is why I love S3&K so much. Both of their stories are canon, from what I understand of it.

[Kuzu]

By making different gameplay elements that don't stray far from Sonic's gameplay, works well, and has variety, but makes it optional just gets me. If the gameplay works, and is guaranteed to make people enjoy it, why make it optional? Personally, I'd be pretty annoyed to see Tails have his own levels that are nothing short of amazing, but his running through the levels just have nothing to do with the plot. You get what I mean? Sorry if I'm not making sense, I've got tons of stuff going on in my mind right now. xD

Its called preference. So what if Tails` levels are masterful, I want to play as someone else, and I should have the option to do so. And I think you're talking about giving each character their own story, that's what I'm against to be honest, in S3&K it worked, because only Sonic's story is the one with the true ending, and you only have three characters, but take SA1 for example you have to go through the game effectively 6 times to finish it, after a while it becomes monotonous.

By having just one story path, and cycling between characters you have your cake and you can eat it too. Anyone who wants to play as their favorite character can do so without having to be forced to play as someone they don't want to play as.

As for S3&K, you are somewhat correct, but not entirely. Since it's the 16bit times we're talking about, character selection that was executed perfectly well in later games like Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, Sonic Heroes, and Sonic 06, didn't work well in S3&K.In a certain way, yes; Knuckles is an optional character. But when you look at it in another perspective, Knuckles is obligatory. Knuckles has a plot, entirely different from Sonic and Tails's. If you wanted to understand the plot in its entirety, you had to beat both Sonic's/Tails's and Knuckles's games, which is why I love S3&K so much. Both of their stories are canon, from what I understand of it.

That's just it though, you don't have to beat Knuckles` story, because his path is completely unrelated to the main plot(I.e The Death Egg), so if you felt like it, you can skip it and you wouldn't lose anything.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Question though would it last? Would this be a one time deal or would this be something that develops for the two?

Yes, it would last and would not be a one time deal. It'll be something that when the moment has them needed at any point beyond that they'll know how to work together as they would the last time they did it. The one thing that really irks me is to have something between the characters and then have later games forget it ever happened.

[Kuzu]

Yes, it would last and would not be a one time deal. It'll be something that when the moment has them needed at any point beyond that they'll know how to work together as they would the last time they did it. The one thing that really irks me is to have something between the characters and then have later games forget it ever happened.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Shadic93

[the blu blur]

The one formula I think always works well for a series when it comes to a series, is having a consistent main series, have an off shoot title, and then return to the main series if that off shoot game was not well recieved:

-main series entry

-main series entry

---spin-off entry in formula - Outcome 1: (successful!) = potential secondary branch in gameplay

Outcome 2: entry was not well received = make next title a main entry to ensure integrity in the brand.

By having spin off entries in between each release, they can experiment in expanding the successful formula further without harming the main series gameplay (although not too much) if its not successful, they can always go back, and in doing so, will re establish that trust in what the developers are capable of delivering.

This is a philosophy I believe even Mario has in its game process. After Sunshine, they went back to the more familiar gameplay in Galaxy and improved upon it, which ensured that they "still can make good mario games".

Sonic Team actually tried to do this with 06 to help reestablish the good sonic gameplay by basing on what was the successful formula at the time, the Adventure gameplay, hence its similarities. and of course it did not work out well.

But here we are, at present with that philosophy finally bearing fruit thanks to Sonic Colors. The bond between developers and gamers is trust and integrity, and to help quell their fears in a developers abilities, the developer must continue to supply games that show continued proof in fun gameplay. when this line of good games is broken, its hard to get it back, which is why status quos are cited. To maintain that balance.

My advice is for Sonic Team to continue to expand this gameplay we're on as a "safety net" of sorts while make other Sonic games, like Colors that will experiment with other possibilities to provide something for everyone. I'm all for optional characters coming into the fold, and would like them to have their own storyline to feel significant enough, but not mandatory to play every character out. I think the Sonic Advance series, did it right in a way, as well as, 3 & K.

That's all I can think of for now. Its more or less what I would like to see going forward for Sonic. Refinement, adding options to the "Sonic only" mode for other gamers, while fine tuning them to feel like Sonic gameplay. and off shoot titles to reach further with the main series as a safety net. I guess you can call this the tl;dr version, lol.

Edited August 3, 2011 by the blu blur

[Skull Leader]

well that's just it, most of those characters are in a comfort zone because of some previous events that helped them bond or made the enemies, you can't just have a random character grow a relationship with someone they've barely known, because it comes off as forced. I think it needs to be a gradual thing.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

After all whether a couple of character have a chemistry or not really depends on many factors, some of them can be related to their personalities, which can complement or clash, having common interests, or even be the result of circumstances that are out of their control, which is something that can actually bring together the most unlikely ones (even Vector and Amy if done right XD). In short there is no way of telling if it will work or not until it's given a try. If it comes good then good, and if it comes bad it's still good because you're giving a couple of characters something new & fresh to work with in terms of development instead of resuing the same thing over and over again until it becomes predictable.

The way I see it, if it comes good then it's good, but if it comes bad then you should do better.

First comes the idea, then comes the situation, then comes the execution, and lastly the outcome. And that goes for both in game and the audience viewing it. One thing I've learned since Unleashed is that there are those who see any violation, whether big or small or even completely different, of what they're used to as blasphemous. Call me stuck up and arrogant when I say that, but those people aren't to be catered to for being that shallow.

Take Chip and Pickle for example. A lot of people claimed that Chip stole Tails' sidekick role, without even bothering to consider what the two's actually roles and abilities are. Basically, Chip was at Sonic's side and not Tails, therefore it sucks. Then there's Prof. Pickle and Tails regarding intellect: the difference the people who hate Pickle for being the genius and not Tails is that Pickle is more of an Archaeologist in contrast to Tails' engineering. But some don't or refuse to see that and insist that Pickle was blocking Tails from being the smart one.

It's funny in regard to this bit of the status quo that people don't look at the other details. It's one thing to not see it at first, but to ignore that when it is presented to you by someone who does see it and continue to insist that it should've been how it always was is really missing the point if you ask me.

[Scar]

The way I see it, if it comes good then it's good, but if it comes bad then you should do better.

First comes the idea, then comes the situation, then comes the execution, and lastly the outcome. And that goes for both in game and the audience viewing it. One thing I've learned since Unleashed is that there are those who see any violation, whether big or small or even completely different, of what they're used to as blasphemous. Call me stuck up and arrogant when I say that, but those people aren't to be catered to for being that shallow.

Take Chip and Pickle for example. A lot of people claimed that Chip stole Tails' sidekick role, without even bothering to consider what the two's actually roles and abilities are. Basically, Chip was at Sonic's side and not Tails, therefore it sucks. Then there's Prof. Pickle and Tails regarding intellect: the difference the people who hate Pickle for being the genius and not Tails is that Pickle is more of an Archaeologist in contrast to Tails' engineering. But some don't or refuse to see that and insist that Pickle was blocking Tails from being the smart one.

It's funny in regard to this bit of the status quo that people don't look at the other details. It's one thing to not see it at first, but to ignore that when it is presented to you by someone who does see it and continue to insist that it should've been how it always was is really missing the point if you ask me.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Scar

[Mangoaxe5]

The problem that I have with Chip is that Sonic seemed to be a better friend to him then he was to Tails in Sonic Unleashed. Tails might as well have not been in Sonic Unleashed.

[Diogenes]

The problem that I have with Chip is that Sonic seemed to be a better friend to him then he was to Tails in Sonic Unleashed. Tails might as well have not been in Sonic Unleashed.

[DarkLight]

The problem that I have with this complaint is that one of the major plot points of Unleashed is Sonic and Chip becoming friends. Spending time showing Sonic and Tails being bestest buddies forever <3 would have diluted the point.

Edited August 5, 2011 by DarkLightDragon

[Kuzu]

The problem that I have with this complaint is that one of the major plot points of Unleashed is Sonic and Chip becoming friends. Spending time showing Sonic and Tails being bestest buddies forever <3 would have diluted the point.

I think it would've worked better if it showed all three of them as friends, that way no one gets the shaft.

[Diogenes]

It could've worked, but there was certainly no need for it. Tails didn't get the shaft just because he wasn't glued to Sonic's ass; their relationship is about the same, they just spend less time together because Tails is only a minor character in the story. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[theadvisor1234]

Personally, I think that a big player in shaking things up should be Dr. Eggman. Eggman is a genius. He would know the status quo. He should manipulate the status quo, bend the status quo, twist the status quo, and even shatter the status quo. That would force development in the characters, as they must adjust to something new. And who better to usher that in than the one person intelligent and sick enough to do it?

[Kuzu]

Personally, I think that a big player in shaking things up should be Dr. Eggman. Eggman is a genius. He would know the status quo. He should manipulate the status quo, bend the status quo, twist the status quo, and even shatter the status quo. That would force development in the characters, as they must adjust to something new. And who better to usher that in than the one person intelligent and sick enough to do it?

Basically make him Dangerously Genre Savvy? I like it.

[theadvisor1234]

Basically make him Dangerously Genre Savvy? I like it.

Ah, but you would know what I mean. You've seen it in action.

[Kuzu]

Ah, but you would know what I mean. You've seen it in action.

Well even before I read your story, I always wondered how the plot would play out if Eggman actually learned from his mistakes and didn't do things in his usual way, it would cause the characters to also think in a different way, and I like different when its used good.

[theadvisor1234]

Well even before I read your story, I always wondered how the plot would play out if Eggman actually learned from his mistakes and didn't do things in his usual way, it would cause the characters to also think in a different way, and I like different when its used good.

Of course.

Eggman's smart. Let's have him demonstrate it now and then, beyond his knowledge of mechanics.

Edited August 5, 2011 by theadvisor1234