Realism in the Sonic games

[Blue Blood]

I've no idea if this is how it was intended, but I've always thought of Eggman as being not from the human world in games prior to Unleashed and Chronicles. Not like how Blaze is from a literal different world, but from a different world of artistic design. How to explain... hmm... Eggman was from the same design as Sonic but a totally different one to Maria. Since 2008 the "world" of Maria's was more of less scrapped. Does that make any sense, Gordo?

[lounge]

Then please. Explain his origin story. Professor Gerald is his grandfather, which means he had to be born on a human-populated Earth, the same world Gerald was from. Which also means the Sonic games have always taken place there. The "two worlds" theory from Sonic X does not apply to the games.

I'm aware it's canon. But I'm pretty sure there was a reason they made eggman warp everyone to another world. And I'm pretty sure sonic team wanted this done on the first episode because they never explained in the games why in sonic adventure, the world looked different from the 2d games. I know they didn't supervise every episode, but they did advise the animation team on key points and all that stuff.

And who said there weren't any humans in sonic's original world. No one's 100% sure.

They don't look goofy

Then explain to me why I laugh everytime I see them? (not laughing in a cheery way, laughing in as making fun of them)

You were talking about if Sonic were real. I took it to the logical extreme, showing a cartoon character interacting with real people. If you can understand why it doesn't work there, maybe you can understand why it doesn't work here.

I meant sonic interacting with humans that looked normal enough in the games. I didn't mean live action. Edited April 11, 2009 by lounge

[Phos]

Seems like a double standard, but whatever.

It is an unapologetic double standard in my view.

And Sonic Unleashed was the first time since Adventure 1 DC that Sonic has had a model not as ugly as sin in one of the primary games.

SA DX's was almost like a model I'd expect out of a Sonic X game (couldn't even get his shoes right), SA2's looks like some kind of crustacean caught outside it's shell (and the shoes are even worse!), Heroes's joints were way too stiff, ShtH's were just plain ugly, Sonic 06 was anorexic.

[Dr. Mechano]

I'm aware it's canon. But I'm pretty sure there was a reason they made eggman warp everyone to another world. And I'm pretty sure sonic team wanted this done on the first episode because they never explained in the games why in sonic adventure, the world looked different from the 2d games. I know they didn't supervise every episode, but they did advise the animation team on key points and all that stuff.

And who said there weren't any humans in sonic's original world. No one's 100% sure.

I'm aware of that. But... Eggman is Gerald's grandson. And in the X continuity, Gerald is from a separate world from Eggman.

They never explain how Eggman got to Sonic's world in the first place. If Eggman is Gerald's grandson, then he had to have been born on the same world as Gerald. That or Eggman's parents went to Sonic's world before he was born, I guess. Either way, Sonic X never addresses this major plothole. It also doesn't explain how Eggman looked up to Gerald as a child, if he was indeed too young to even remember Earth, and grew up in Sonic's world.

The Sonic X "two worlds" story is fundamentally flawed for this reason. It doesn't even make sense in the context of the show, much less the games.

Edited April 11, 2009 by El Gran Gordo

[Phos]

I'm aware of that. But... Eggman is Gerald's grandson. And in the X continuity, Gerald is from a separate world from Eggman.

They never explain how Eggman got to Sonic's world in the first place. If Eggman is Gerald's grandson, then he had to have been born on the same world as Gerald. That or Eggman's parents went to Sonic's world before he was born, I guess. Either way, Sonic X never addresses this major plothole. It also doesn't explain how Eggman looked up to Gerald as a child, if he was indeed too young to even remember Earth, and grew up in Sonic's world.

The Sonic X "two worlds" story is fundamentally flawed for this reason. It doesn't even make sense in the context of the show, much less the games.

They vaguely explain these obvious continuity errors by saying that the worlds are merging thanks to Sonic's presence. It sounds to me like they wanted to make the show more like the games, but didn't take the most important step.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Phos

[batson]

It's a bit odd that people still get wrong some of the basic differences between the various continuities, considering all the years of debate and furious fan-wars. I though the notion that Sonic X is no more canonical than AoStH was basically 100% agreed upon by now.

[Diogenes]

And I'm pretty sure sonic team wanted this done on the first episode because they never explained in the games why in sonic adventure, the world looked different from the 2d games.

It doesn't, tho'. There's a bigger difference between SA and SA2, but no one wonders about that. Why is Genesis to SA such an issue?

Then explain to me why I laugh everytime I see them? (not laughing in a cheery way, laughing in as making fun of them)

Maybe you just have shitty taste. Maybe you've got a stick up your ass. Maybe you just didn't watch enough cartoons as a kid.

I meant sonic interacting with humans that looked normal enough in the games. I didn't mean live action.

They do look normal enough in Unleashed. Cartoons, y'know? The humans don't look like real people.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Well, they tried the other extreme, where instead of making the others fit in with Eggman, they tried to make Eggman fit in with the others. I admit this was an interesting design...

...But I definitely prefer his usual cartoony look. I guess one reason I liked Unleashed was that everyone had the same whimsical and unrealistic charm that Eggman himself did. I can see where you're coming from of course.

I got to admit, even though I like the cartoony Eggman better, I think he would do better with some more definition in his legs like his Sonic 06 version instead of him looking like an egg on toothpicks for legs. Then again, the same toothpicks for Sonic allow him to break the sound barrier while Knuckles' toothpicks allow him to tear through 14 inch concrete.(Though I think they could use a little muscular definition too. )

On the subject of the realism, I honestly don't mind too much on how far they do it so long as it still fits Sonic well enough.

I kinda prefer Unleashed's take on the environments, because despite the realism it doesn't look too far out of place for Sonic. I love the real world inspired looks warped to that look, and the way I see it they're not that different from stages like Marble Garden, Chemical Plant, Sandopolis, and other stages in the Classics.

Adventures through ShTH had a great put on the humans. For some reason, they never seemed to be out of place when compared to Sonic, especially the GUN Commander. Now Sonic 06 kinda looks a bit awkward, I'll admit. I don't exactly mind it, but I can see how it would look very strange to other folks.

As for the robots. I would actually prefer a blend of Sonic 06's robots with that of Unleashed. Now you can't tell me Sonic 06's robots weren't animal inspired because I can show you five images that'll say otherwise. We had a dog, a crab, a wasp, a rhino, and dragon robots in a game that was made to be realistic, and I actually liked them alot. Unleashed robots were cool on regard of their goofy designs, especially SA-55 "Ergo". They had a funny sense of intellegence to them, and the Egg Fighter's AI hands were by far the best enemies in the game.

Edited April 11, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[lounge]

There's a bigger difference between SA and SA2, but no one wonders about that. Why is Genesis to SA such an issue?

What's the big difference between sa1 & sa2? That the robots are from GUN, and aren't cutesy little animal robots? Or that some environments were inspired by the team's surrounding area?

[turbojet]

What's the big difference between sa1 & sa2? That the robots are from GUN, and aren't cutesy little animal robots? Or that some environments were inspired by the team's surrounding area?

Sa didn't have gun robots and they were cutesy. There were also animal robots in the Eggman areas as well.

[Phos]

What's the big difference between sa1 & sa2? That the robots are from GUN, and aren't cutesy little animal robots? Or that some environments were inspired by the team's surrounding area?

SA2 saw:

And increase in linearity - levels are now "hot wheels tracks in the sky" as opposed to levels

OMG Drama!!!!

Alternate gameplay styles that actually harm Sonic's own

Trial and error levels

And a number of other Shark Jumping features.

[Diogenes]

What's the big difference between sa1 & sa2? That the robots are from GUN, and aren't cutesy little animal robots? Or that some environments were inspired by the team's surrounding area?

The robots are part of it; bringing in an organization that used more realistic robots exclusively, as compared to levels filled with hovering caterpillar robots, bomb throwing monkeybots, and bouncy inflating rabbit-bots, did a fair bit towards changing the setting.

The level themes in general have a different feel. SA feels a lot more...whimsical, I suppose; there's a casino with giant pinball tables, an amusement park, a volcano, a frozen mountain, ancient ruins, a giant airship, a racetrack in the sky, etc. SA2 tends to be a bit more down to earth; a rather plain city, a military base, a jungle, a desert, and a space station. Some nice locations to be sure, but a lot of it just seems kind of ordinary.

Plus there's a big shift in story and tone. SA2 is a lot darker and a lot more sci-fi compared to SA, which stayed pretty light even in spite of the tragedies surrounding Chaos and had a lot more natural/supernatural feel, with the sci-fi mostly confined to Eggman's mostly-cartoony machinery.

And, of course, I've got to turn this around...what's the big difference between the Genesis games and SA?

[Mollfie]

I think that half of Eggmans appeal comes from how ridiculous he looks, he's a round man with very thin spagetti legs, huge moustache and tiny sunglasses. If you make that real..it is creepy lol DX But that's the same for all the Sonic characters really.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Mollfie

[lounge]

SA2 saw:

And increase in linearity - levels are now "hot wheels tracks in the sky" as opposed to levels

SA2 is no more linear than the first sonic adventure. The levels are still go from point a to point b. Actually, the sonic adventure 1 levels actually feel emptier, at least, that's how I feel when I play them. But it was their first foray into 3d sonic, so that's understandable. I think with the sequel, they really had a much better understanding of how to make the levels more interesting. To go insanely fast along these hot wheel levels while maintaining just enough action. There was still platforming and the new grind feature to keep the levels interesting.

OMG Drama!!!!

The story became more interesting. Not really that surprising. Sequels are supposed to imporve on things.

Alternate gameplay styles that actually harm Sonic's own

there were only two alternate styles. While the predecessor had like four.

Trial and error levels

huh?

And a number of other Shark Jumping features.

It's called evolution. You need new stuff to keep this shit fresh, know what I'm sayin'?

what's the big difference between the Genesis games and SA?

Well, there's actually a story. The world seems to be recreated from the ground up. There's VO. The music is totally redone. The characters are redesigned. There's RPG stuff (adventure fields). It's 3D.

[Diogenes]

Well, there's actually a story. The world seems to be recreated from the ground up. There's VO. The music is totally redone. The characters are redesigned. There's RPG stuff (adventure fields). It's 3D.

What of any of this has to do with it seeming like a different world, to the point where you'd need an explanation for why Sonic is here rather than where he was?

[ArtFenix]

It shouldn't matter whether environments are realistic or fictional. As long as the levels look cool and make your eye's widen at all the great textures.

The humans in unleashed pissed me off, because sonic, to me has always been a cool guy, ever since I played sa2battle, I loved his image and style. But seeing these deformed, disproportional, childish human beings interacting with this cool, iconic character just doesn't go well in my mind. They look so embarrasing. The design of Maria is how I feel humans should be portrayed. She had some cartoonish features (like those anime style eyes), but she was well proportioned, and she was actually taller than 3.3 ft.

I just can't take any humans seriously if they look like professor pickle, ugh!

Also, I find it a stereotype, that just because sonic and gang are imaginary characters, the humans have to look retarded. I like the idea of sonic characters interacting with normal looking humans. It gives off that idea of what if sonic were real?

That's exactly what i think! There is at least one person, who thinks just like i do). The best style was in Sa/Sa2 (and for me, it was also in S06). Maria and Jerald are my personal favorites! I adore anime and i like some features from it in sonic games. I also like Pixar, but i HATE that style in SU. These humans look VERY UGLY(( A can't stand them, i'm sorry. Better if sonicteam just remove all humans at all.

[SuperStingray]

Maybe you just have shitty taste. Maybe you've got a stick up your ass. Maybe you just didn't watch enough cartoons as a kid.

Hey, relax man. He just expects something different out of the series, it doesn't have anything to do with taste.

[Blue Blood]

Let's not turn this into the age old "Should Sonic have humans?" debate, ArtFenix. That goes in the scrap heap along with VA discussion.

I just always think- blue hedgehog wearing red shoes and running a supersonic speeds. Unrealistic, not even trying to be realistic in the slightest. Why chuck that into a world that's the total opposite?

[Indigo Rush]

These humans look VERY UGLY(( A can't stand them, i'm sorry. Better if sonicteam just remove all humans at all.

You make Eggman very sad.

[Phos]

SA2 is no more linear than the first sonic adventure.

Except it is. they went from "navigating Sonic through an area" to "navigate Sonic to the next boost pad" SA1 had some levels like this, but in Adventure 2, that was all you got.

The story became more interesting. Not really that surprising. Sequels are supposed to imporve on things.

SA2's plot can best be described as asinine. The first half required the viewer to assume that the entirety of GUN was colorblind (Can't tell the difference between Sonic and Shadow), and the second half gave me the impression that Sonic & friends were wandering around hoping they'd eventually stop Eggman.

there were only two alternate styles. While the predecessor had like four.

IRRELEVANT. In SA1, the other characters go through modified versions of Sonic's level, he has like ten of them. In SA2, he has, what, four? five? Worse yet, half of them suck majorly. Shadow has 3, but all three of them are pretty terrible.

huh?

Final Rush/Chase, Sky Rail, Metal Harbor, Security Hall, Crazy Gadget, Cannon's Core, the Biolizard fight...

It's called evolution. You need new stuff to keep this shit fresh, know what I'm sayin'?

Keep fresh =/= make terrible.

[ArtFenix]

I'm sorry, BlueBlood..I didn't mean it)) I just don't get it..Long time ago there were Sa and Sa2 and people loved everything about them in aspects of plot, gameplay, style, etc..And now Sonic is loosing his style! Sonic always was a bit realistic and at the same time a bit cartoony. SU tried Sonic to be just cartoonish..as much as sonic games can be. It is NOT Sonic anymore. It is PIXAR!! That's what i hate, that's what i can't agree with. Sa/Sa2 humans also were a bit(i mean, A BIT!) cartoonish, but they weren't THAT ugly and unproportional. Even Eggman, who always looked more cartoonish, than other humans, looks cool, because i feel sick looking at the other humans in SU.

Indigo Artemis. I'm sorry, Eggman)) You can stay xD

[SuperStingray]

SA2's plot can best be described as asinine. The first half required the viewer to assume that the entirety of GUN was colorblind (Can't tell the difference between Sonic and Shadow)

Well, they do have to obey their commander, and his eyes don't seem... normal. But even if they weren't colorblind, I'd imagine they'd have a hard time telling Sonic and Shadow apart because, really, how many different anthropomorphic hedgehogs do you expect to see in your lifetime?

the second half gave me the impression that Sonic & friends were wandering around hoping they'd eventually stop Eggman.

Um... DUH. What else are they supposed to do? NOT look for him?

In SA2, he has, what, four? five? Worse yet, half of them suck majorly. Shadow has 3, but all three of them are pretty terrible.

6. And Shadow has 4.

[Serperior]

All I can say is I'd prefer it if they toned down the cartoon-like tone of the humans in Unleashed just a bit, only a small bit though because to me the heads of the NPCs had very odd shapes but then again so does the anthro cast. Also the environments could be a bit more cartoony as well, I liked the environments in Unleashed but they still looked a bit too realistic.

[Phos]

Well, they do have to obey their commander, and his eyes don't seem... normal. But even if they weren't colorblind, I'd imagine they'd have a hard time telling Sonic and Shadow apart because, really, how many different anthropomorphic hedgehogs do you expect to see in your lifetime?

For this to matter, Sonic really would have to be from a different world.

6. And Shadow has 4.

Ok, so the only problem is that they aren't any fun.

[Indigo Rush]

Ok, so the only problem is that they aren't any fun.

Maybe they weren't fun to you, but a lot of people enjoyed SA2's speed levels, including me.