Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Ryannumber1gamer]

You know what?

I think Dave Manek is probably the worst artist in this entire series, barring Many Hands. Say what you will about Penders or Lim, but Lim can pump out an occasionally decent character or shot every now and then, and Penders is at least vaguely on model with proportions, but Manek is constantly off model. His expressions often look super weird, and all of the characters are drawn as weird adults, and I don't even remotely know what in god's name he's doing with Eggman.

Rouge and Amy is by far the worst. In 2003, he gave Amy a straight up regular hammer, like Thor's, and Rouge is just nearly completely off altogether. The only remotely decent looking thing in this entire issue is M's expression at the end.

[Dr. Detective]

34 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

You know what?

I think Dave Manek is probably the worst artist in this entire series, barring Many Hands. Say what you will about Penders or Lim, but Lim can pump out an occasionally decent character or shot every now and then, and Penders is at least vaguely on model with proportions, but Manek is constantly off model. His expressions often look super weird, and all of the characters are drawn as weird adults, and I don't even remotely know what in god's name he's doing with Eggman.

Rouge and Amy is by far the worst. In 2003, he gave Amy a straight up regular hammer, like Thor's, and Rouge is just nearly completely off altogether. The only remotely decent looking thing in this entire issue is M's expression at the end.

I don't know about the "worst" but he's not been very good so far, no. Honestly, my problem with him is more so how inconsistent his art is. There's like 40 different styles in the entire story he's drawn.

That awesome final panel of M's face looks nothing like the noodley Knuckles that's looking at Amy as she "charges". The Amy that attacks the robots looks way more angular than normal and then the Rouge drawing just looks like a weird super model with a bat face.

I don't know what to make of it. I can't even pin down a style with him.

[VO.SUPER]

Yeah, Manak always came across as a lesser Mawhinny in the early issues. His characters never felt quite as... fluid or structured as the other artists, and he never transitioned to the Adventure era well at all. 

[Mauro Fonseca]

Manak might not have adjusted to the new art style, but nowhere is he near to being one of the worst artists in the series. Look past the off-model element- he does good cartooning by itself. That puts him miles above Penders.

 

Being bad at drawing Sonic but decent to good at cartoons overall > being bad at drawing Sonic AND anything else as well.

[SBR2]

Spoiler

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It also just hit me that this is going to be a four part story.

Technically 5 but the fifth part is more of an epilogue so I don't know if that counts. But yeah in generally we are past one off issues now. From #125 onward almost every issue is a multi issue arc with a few one issue stories in the mix.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Geoffrey and Hershey getting married as a last request granted to them by Eggman right before they’re about to be gunned down.

I'm torn between wondering if "Marriage before execution is something that should be in a Sonic comic and also finding it kinda sweet that's the last thing they want before dying and revulsion at finding anything involving Geoffrey sweet.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Also, no, I didn’t say that wrong. He said Swat-Bots, not Shadow-Bots.

My guess is they just forgot the Shadow-Bot name because frankly it was kinda stupid.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

YOU DON’T SAY!
Eggman went back on his promise to share half the planet with the Acorns? Oh lord. It’s raining shocked Pikachu memes in my room all of a sudden. WHO could have seen that coming? He seemed so trust-worthy. I mean he only betrayed you immediately after you guys agreed to help. The instant Sonic entered that robot, he showed his traitorous hand without flinching. Didn’t even bother to wait for the threat to be neutralized. 

Oh but I’m certain that he was gonna keep his promise to give the Acorn’s HALF the world. 

Jesus Christ. 

Fucking dolts.

Ok I still defend the attempt because honestly the main reason Eggman managed to get the drop on them and build his empire is because Sonic was gone. It's like how people complain about Venjix being in Power Rangers Beast Morphers. Of course he's losing now because when he took over the RPM universe there weren't any Power Rangers outside of test pilots in Alphabet Soup. The fact the title character wasn't around played a major factor. But that's just how I see it.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

The scene that unfolds is a very humorous one and peak Eggman. That scene of that Swat-Bot’s glowing red eyes witnessing Sonic murder it was connected through to A.D.A.M since he controls them all. Due to that, Eggman gets a nice screenshot of the one responsible for demolishing his bots.

I think there's one thing we can all agree on Bollers really got Eggman.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Witnessing the man try and fail at giving himself proper emotional therapy was delightful. The only thing throwing me off about Eggman is how his nose is the same color as his skin though. Jason Jenson isn’t bad with these colors but it seems he can’t help doing something like this from time to time. That whole fiasco with how wrong Shadow’s colors were come to mind again.

This is also that weird time where some artists thought Eggman's glasses were like robot eyes or something and never drew a bridge.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Case in point, what he sees when he reaches Knothole is basically a section of Metal City on loan from Sonic Riders.

Truly, some really good art here. Mr. Axer, you’re quite the massive talent.

This is Butler actually. Like say what you will about the man's proportions especially on the girls but he's no slouch.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Upon seeing this, it hits Sonic like a moon to the face that maybe assuming the same amount of time passed for them as it did for him might not have been accurate.

Which y'know is how Space science works.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Sonic asks instead how long it’s been since the Xorda were defeated. 

She says one year.

Ok so a lot of sources put Sonic and everyone's age literally a year up from where they were before this issue after Sonic's birthday. I have some issues with that. For one Sonic's birthday is in 30 issues so if it's been a year since the Xorda were defeated that means it was probably only a few months before his birthday in #124-125 so that means everyone is 2 years older than they were and since most of them were 16 that means that most of the cast is 18 at this point. Tails is at least 13 and everyone else are legal adults. Archie Sonic is wild.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

After playing a quick game of “Guess Who” with the doormen outside Castle Acorn, Sonic is let in only to see Knuckles pleading with King Max to help him liberate Angel Island from the Forces of Eggman. They’re refusing, of course, saying that they need him for a bit longer.

"No we have five issues of this arc to go through then Romy Chacon is bringing Tommy back for some reason in the three after this. You can check on the Echidna's after that."

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

"Ralph I thought you were dead!" "Nope."

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Then he sees King Max, who is standing for some reason (????), but that gets brushed aside (I really wish it didn’t…)

I...don't think they ever explain this. I guess it's just "he got better". Though he won't stay that way for long. I assume that's not a spoiler. You've read Ian's stuff so that's obvious.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

No words.

It’s just a shot of Sally by the grave and her slowly turning around when Sonic approaches. Then the next page is a full page spread of them kissing.

Honestly probably the best way to handle it. What really needs to be said? They're reunited and I'm sure the crushing feeling of Sonic's "Death" and return mixed with the super dangerous mission he's about to go on won't lead to any sort of heartbreaking controversial moment that ruins Sally for so many or anything.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

"Getting hot and heavy with Princess Sally Acorn to boot" Fuckin' TMZ.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Sally says no, claiming that she knew he’d always come back.

"Press X to doubt"

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Seems like a strange thing for someone who was kneeling and crying in front of a grave to say but maybe she was just finding it to be a nice thinking spot.

Personally I feel it more like she's bottling up her feelings. Like the weight of it never went away and now she's lying to herself that she wasn't totally convinced he was gone. I also might have been convinced of this reading because of the ThanksKenPenders Tumblr. She makes a really good case for Sally's arc in this storyline.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Then we have the set-up for a story arc that I also have in my collection. I had no idea it was being set-up THIS far in advance though. 

The real Antoine is going to be gone from this book for quite a long time it would seem.

You didn't know they were setting things up because they weren't. Bollers had every intention of this being Antoine, He thought he needed to be more serious which meant making him a cold asshole with friction towards Bunnie. While I hate to admit it I think Penders retconning this to be Evil Antoine was one of his better ideas.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

The issue ends with Eggman telling everyone why he ISN’T stupid actually because he’s doing the Lex Luthor thing of sending nukes to two other locations while his Swat-Bots go to release the radiation. He’s gonna blow up Station Square and Knothole at the same time.

"Ivo. My mother lives in Hackensack."

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It’s here where he turns to see Knuckles, Amy, Vector, Mighty, and Julie-Su. Because we apparently can’t tell who they are, Knuckles lists them all off by their individual names. 

Say what you will about the captions but they were a way less clunky way to introduce these characters to new readers.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

Who'd ever believe a version of the American government would keep it's people completely in the dark about a crisis? How unrealistic.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Commander Brass returns (Remember him? Big, hunky, angry, rugged dude?) and is speaking with the President about how it’s silly to handle the Eggman Empire launching an all out attack on their exposed city by leaving it up to a blue hedgehog instead of their huge G.U.N army. Well, when you say it like that it sounds silly. Of course.

And of course as we all know Sonic The Hedgehog is absolutely not a silly franchise. (I had a tongue out emoji here but it fucked with trying to quote but please note I'm kidding) 

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Archie Sonic the Hedgehog - Issue #131: Mobius 25 Years Later - Prologue

Writer/Inker: Ken Penders
Penciler: Steven Butler
Colorist: Jason Jensen
Letterer: Vickie Williams
Editor: Justin Gabrie

It begins. May God have mercy on us all.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

To summarize, it’s of my own personal belief and opinion that should anyone attempt to risk ruining the suspension of disbelief of their own stories by attempting to show us what’ll happen in the future, the best possible way to avoid that is to NOT do that, first and foremost.

Personally I don't mind it myself in theory. The idea of seeing your favorite characters living their Happily Ever After is fine but it's the execution where it fails. It should also be pointed out this is also not the only time Archie did this. They had a ton of stories in TMNT Adventures where the Turtles met their future selves from a few 100 years in the Future when Earth was destroyed by Climate Change (I'm on his side but Steve Murphy, who wrote under the name Dean Clarrion, is not a very subtle guy) and would have adventures with them. They also had their own story which involved Hitler's time traveling brain.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

No though. Mr. Penders definitely wanted this to be the set-in-stone future for these characters and he wanted to show it to you all in a story that I just found out last week was going to span across 14 issues, JESUS CHRIST! I didn’t even know that! I knew this was coming but I assumed it would have been the length of the stuff from Ian’s run. Why was I so naïve?!

I'm sorry for having broken that news. I would say "At least they're mostly 6-8 pages" but I think that makes it worse.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It already feels dumb that Lara-Su was shoved into that one story for no particular reason other than to, I guess, set this up, but now we’re gonna have to follow her as she reportedly ends up not amounting to much of anything, or so I’ve heard?

It'as also weird because that ended up being a different Lara-Su anyway. Penders apparently had this future story in mind for a while. Shockingly it started life as Knuckles 20 Years Later and was about Locke's vision but that never came to pass.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

Oh, shit it's Riki-Le! The girl who said she didn't know what a war was in the Lara-Su Chronicles script. She's apparently Lara's best friend but appears a total of twice.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I could also complain about how only the guys have semi-normal names and all the girls have two syllable names for reasons I still don’t understand but I won’t.

I love you say that when one of the guy's is literally named Rutan. Which just makes me want an Echidna named Sontaran to show up and fight him.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

We cut away to see someone who’s obviously Rotor, acting as an emissary, coming to meet with the echidnas.

DOMO.

The first, last and only time Rotor speaks Japanese.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Even still, the words “King Sonic” sound incredibly awkward and fake. All I can think of is the end of Black Knight where he told all the knights to stop bowing to him.

Yeah I gotta agree. I'm not really opposed to Sonic and Sally being together but I kinda wish it had been Sally who chose to give up the life of a royal. She and Sonic would be a Husband and Wife Adventure team. That's the only way I'd ever want to see Sonic married though.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

But yeah, Espio… looking… weird my guy.

This is literally the only time Espio appears in this story BTW with the exception of a cameo later.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

25 years means Sonic is about 40. 

About...43 if my math and previous rant about ages is correct.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I don’t know why Rotor is being referred to as a mad scientist but apparently they feel it’s warranted based on something he did a while back. Also, this Cobar character was apparently supposed to be someone Rotor was really close with and they were gonna do this whole thing where Rotor was gay or something? I don’t know. I heard it didn’t pan out that way.

Yeah Penders went full Rowling after Ian killed him off and he was like "Rotor and Cobor were totally husbands and Ian's a homophobe for killing him off and I paved the way for Kevin Keeler."

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Lien-Da looks really good though.

Hell yeah she does! *Wack*

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

In fact, this was the point where I had to check and see who was doing the art because there’s no way it was Ken Penders. It looks way too good.

So I checked and HOLY SHIT IT ACTU--no. It’s Steven Butler. I put the credits up top so I saw his name but there was a part of me that, for some reason, wanted to believe Ken was being good at something.

Ken did draw the intro page with Merlin. He also draws a later part in #143 but it's um...it's a personal story for him there.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Lien-Da, a mother now somehow,

Who the hell fucked Lien-Da is a question that'll burn for eternity. Some Finitevus because of the Albino patches on Rutan's quills but I really can't picture him having sex.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

We cut back to Knuckles who is looking for Lara-Su. He comes across Julie-Su instead and is informed by her that she’s locked herself in the bathroom. Knuckles does the angry, yelling father thing and bangs on the door, telling her to get out because she’s a 16 year old girl and she needs to be… unveiled???

… EW?

I don’t know why the word “unveiled” sounds so gross and disgusting here.

It's not as bad as it sound's it's basically a coming of age dance. Penders could have given it a way better name and it doesn't help with how obsessed he is with teen sex.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

This sticks out to me because the earlier scene in the classroom kind of gave off the air that she was a bit bothered by the fact that Rutan pointed out that she was going to be a guardian. It kind of came off as a bit resentful but… no. She totally wants to be that thing that she was chided for in class today about people bowing to her over, possibly.

Ken Penders. Master of horrible implications.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Julie-Su calls spankings barbaric eh? I guess we can cross that off the date night activity list for them then.

Spanking for punishment is a no-no Spanking for fun is a different beast altogether.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Oh but wait! Eggman’s got another tyrannical asshole coming up on the side, ready to slam Sonic in the back of the head with a chair! That’s right, it’s Vince!

Is Eggman also good friends with Donald Trump? That sound's pretty likely.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Why? Because of A.D.A.M.

I already made a Power Rangers RPM reference but seriously A computer virus gaining sentience is not good for you Eggman! Just ask Dr. K and Nate Silva how well accidentally creating Computer Viruses goes.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Back at Fort Acorn, General D’ Coolette is sending out his troops while… for some fucked up reason, Julie-Su is trying to tell Knuckles to be like her and do nothing to participate in the fight?

Yeah, I could go into a spiel about how Julie-Su, since being foisted upon me, really hasn’t done much of anything and how her being super-glued to the Chaotix is kind of appropriate since they’ve all been completely useless as well… but instead I’ll talk about how this makes no sense.

Knuckles asks why he can’t join the fight and Julie-Su gives two reasons.

One reason is because he no longer has the power of the Chaos Emerald in him and to that I say, SO?! Knuckles doesn’t need the power of a Chaos Emerald in him in order to fight. None of those soldiers marching off to battle do either. Knuckles probably has more power in his fist than 30 of those soldiers do in their whole bodies. So that reason is nonsense.

The second reason she gives is because… he could REALLY get hurt.

Ignoring the possibility of him getting hurt when going out to fight in a battle being a really “no shit” thing to say, she does realize that what she’s saying here makes literally no sense right?

I don't know dude I think at this point you're just reaching for reasons to hate Julie-Su. She wants him to not fight because he literally has none of his abilities right now. She doesn't want him to die because he currently lacks his strength and gliding and all his basic abilities. 

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Is… Is Amy trying to reach the Avatar State? Why does she have that sledgehammer? Is it supposed to be a new hammer or did the artist fuck up the kind of hammer she’s supposed to wield yet again? If it’s another hammer fuck up, I’m seriously starting to worry for these people. This issue came out the same month that Sonic Heroes came out in North America. I feel like this hammer issue should have been long since resolved by this point.

Yeah...I can't defend this one. This is an artist fuck up. Hell I don't think Tracy even draws her Hammer right in his first issue. It's weird.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Meanwhile, Vector is setting up his Sonic Generations mission in the middle of the battlefield.

See that's why they don't need Knuckles. I'd argue they don't need any soldiers because who the hell could possibly pass this?

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Though, Tails somehow regains control of the aircraft, I guess by asking A.D.A.M a quierry in a strangely out of nowhere but still really funny scene.

Tails just asks A.D.A.M why the chicken crossed the road. Even funnier is his answer overlaid on top of scenes of M kicking Sonic’s ass.

Gotta give them credit. Confusing the A.I. with jokes makes some sense.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Literally the next scene is Sally trying to go out to the battlefield and being stopped by her parents because it’s too dangerous and she’s a princess and being a princess means… something more important I guess. Because it’s war.

Yeah because Sally never led a winning army into war before or anything! Christ the levels they go to.

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 1:41 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Anyway, Rouge shows up looking fucking awful.

Oh, my poor girl. I think this is the last non-off panel Manak drew.

 

[Dr. Detective]

12 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Ok I still defend the attempt because honestly the main reason Eggman managed to get the drop on them and build his empire is because Sonic was gone. It's like how people complain about Venjix being in Power Rangers Beast Morphers. Of course he's losing now because when he took over the RPM universe there weren't any Power Rangers outside of test pilots in Alphabet Soup. The fact the title character wasn't around played a major factor. But that's just how I see it.

Eggman betrayed them with Sonic still around and before the new threat of the Xorda were even neutralized. The main hero not being around had nothing to do with it.

12 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Ken did draw the intro page with Merlin. He also draws a later part in #143 

Yeah, I know. You can tell by the big, ugly, bulbous eyes. I didn't mention it because I didn't think the intro page looked good. 

12 hours ago, SBR2 said:

I don't know dude I think at this point you're just reaching for reasons to hate Julie-Su. She wants him to not fight because he literally has none of his abilities right now. She doesn't want him to die because he currently lacks his strength and gliding and all his basic abilities. 

Nope. Not letting that one slide. 

I said in the post that if this comic just left this at a single panel of her just being worried that he was going to die again, it would be understandable. I straight said that. I'm not about to accept this just being written off as me searching for new reasons to hate her. I don't need new reasons to hate her. I was pointing out how dumb the writing was here. If it were anyone else who said it, I'd have said the same thing. It doesn't make any sense to me that Knuckles isn't going out there to fight. Now, if the book had emphasized his lack of strength and him lacking all his basic abilities like you claim, I could understand but that wasn't in any of the pictures I used or the panels I read. 

Does it get revealed later that he's lacking in strength and his basic abilities? Or are you saying I missed the part where this was said? Or does this get said later? Plus, if that's true then why is Knuckles even here? 

Cause all she said was that he didn't have his Green Apple energy powers anymore and my reaction was "So what?" Knuckles was plenty strong without them. He's just back to normal now. Normal Knuckles should be more than enough. 

[therealfalconpawnch777]

1 minute ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Does it get revealed later that he's lacking in strength and his basic abilities? Or are you saying I missed the part where this was said? Or does this get said later? Plus, if that's true then why is Knuckles even here? 

Issue 125, when he trys to glide over to help Sonic and falls flat on his face.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, therealfalconpawnch777 said:

Issue 125, when he trys to glide over to help Sonic and falls flat on his face.

I thought he was trying to use the Chaos powers to fly or something. Was I supposed to get that Knuckles' basic gliding ability was gone? When he said "My powers are gone" wasn't he just talking about the Green Apple Energy powers he got? That's all that issue emphasized would leave him. 

Was that also supposed to mean Knuckles in his base form is somehow weaker? 

 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Cause all she said was that he didn't have his Green Apple energy powers anymore and my reaction was "So what?" Knuckles was plenty strong without them. He's just back to normal now. Normal Knuckles should be more than enough. 

 

1 minute ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I thought he was trying to use the Chaos powers to fly or something. Was I supposed to get that Knuckles' basic gliding ability was gone? When he said "My powers are gone" wasn't he just talking about the Green Apple Energy powers he got. That's all that issue emphasized would leave him. 

Was that also supposed to mean Knuckles in his base form is somehow weaker? 

I'm not sure if Home itself mentions it, but Julie-Su's actually right here. It isn't a scenario where Knuckles just lost his Chaos Emerald energy, he was physically weakened and drained from abusing chaos energy so often, and then resurrecting himself on top of it. Knuckles is far, far weaker than he typically is, and I believe he loses his gliding abilities.

Later on, during Return to Angel Island - Knuckles' strength has deteriorated so much that he has no other choice but to use the SA1/SA2 powerups to give himself any kind of marginal power boost he can in order to help Sonic and the Chaotix liberate the island. 

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

I'm not sure if Home itself mentions it, but Julie-Su's actually right here. It isn't a scenario where Knuckles just lost his Chaos Emerald energy, he was physically weakened and drained from abusing chaos energy so often, and then resurrecting himself on top of it. Knuckles is far, far weaker than he typically is, and I believe he loses his gliding abilities.

Later on, during Return to Angel Island - Knuckles' strength has deteriorated so much that he has no other choice but to use the SA1/SA2 powerups to give himself any kind of marginal power boost he can in order to help Sonic and the Chaotix liberate the island. 

Okay. So, thanks for letting me know... but... is there a way I would have known it was that bad just from reading what I've read now? Because this whole time, I just assumed they were talking about the Chaos Emerald energy and that was it. No one challenged me on that until right now either and the book sure as hell did not make that clear. Julie-Su just sounded like she was talking nonsense. 

[SBR2]

25 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I thought he was trying to use the Chaos powers to fly or something. Was I supposed to get that Knuckles' basic gliding ability was gone? When he said "My powers are gone" wasn't he just talking about the Green Apple Energy powers he got? That's all that issue emphasized would leave him. 

Was that also supposed to mean Knuckles in his base form is somehow weaker? 

 

They've said a lot that all ofKnuckles standard abilities are because of Locke screwing with his DNA. I'm not going to say that isn't stupid but it's been an established piece of comic lore since Ken started on this path.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, SBR2 said:

They've said a lot that all ofKnuckles standard abilities are because of Locke screwing with his DNA. I'm not going to say that isn't stupid but it's been an established piece of comic lore since Ken started on this path.

Alright, that's fine, but again I thought they were talking about his Chaos Powers. So I naturally assumed they just meant the powers he got when he took his Chaos form. I didn't think they wanted me to assume they meant his powers stretching even further back from before he took that Green energy form. 

I eventually would have figured this out when Return to Angel Island happened if he's indeed supposed to get weaker but they really haven't taken a chance here to emphasize how serious this is. The only proof I've gotten so far is a single panel from seven issues back that I assumed was related to his Chaos form and that's it.

The only reasons Julie-Su gives for him not going out there is "You don't possess the power of a Chaos Emerald anymore" and "He could get hurt".

Like, I know that Locke's been screwing with his DNA since he was a baby but was I supposed to assume that meant his base form was also only the way it was because of Chaos Emerald energy? I thought the Chaos Emerald energy Locke was pumping into him was what was giving him those Chaos Powers episodes and that was it. Was I supposed to assume that it was also what made him strong with his fists? I remember Locke saying that it's the reason he had those spikes on his fists but did he also mean to say he was only strong because of the baby microwaving too?

So all this time, Locke didn't just give him Chaos Powers but ALL of Knuckles' abilities, even in his BASE form? 

I feel like it should be obvious based on my confusion that I didn't speak out on that part because I was "looking for new reasons to hate Julie-Su" at least. 

 

[Rocketjay8]

Hey guys, I am thinking of reading the sonic comics, which one should I start on first?

[Dr. Detective]

Just now, Rocketjay8 said:

Hey guys, I am thinking of reading the sonic comics, which one should I start on first?

The IDW comics.

They're the current running comics and the most relevant right now. There's also way less of them and they're far less confusing.

Archie is giving me a headache right now and I'm fighting over the minute details of something that should be simple to understand but apparently isn't.

[Rocketjay8]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

The IDW comics.

They're the current running comics and the most relevant right now. There's also way less of them and they're far less confusing.

Archie is giving me a headache right now and I'm fighting over the minute details of something that should be simple to understand but apparently isn't.

What's so bad about archie comics?

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Rocketjay8 said:

What's so bad about archie comics?

Well, if you didn't know, I'm actually in the middle of reviewing all of them right now in this thread. The last three I reviewed are a page back. I've got a ton of reasons why they're bad. Bad art. Bad storytelling. Bad writing. Influx of useless characters. Canon characters also being useless. Canon characters also being given horrible characteristics.

In terms of Ken Penders, his writing is so off the wall and confusing that even minor details seem to have gotten lost in the fold for me. Putting aside all the unnecessary stuff like the echidnas who are Nazis, and the dingos who are nazis, and how Robotnik was being likened to a nazi, and the stolen Nazi poem, and that time Charmy Bee was hospitalized because he ate a chili-dog laced with LSD (I'm NOT joking) most of the stuff within the book is just being made more complicated than it needs to be.

I literally just got into a conversation where I was confused as to what constituted "chaos powers". I was under the impression that when "chaos powers" were spoken of, it literally only meant when the green chaos energy was being used. But now I'm being informed that it also includes Knuckles' base strength and his ability to glide, which I always used to assume were just things Knuckles could do because he was Knuckles. For some reason, despite everything the insane alien man Ken Penders has done, I didn't assume that he was going to include Knuckles' base abilities he has in the games under the umbrella of things that constitute "Chaos Powers" even though they don't look or function the same way at all. 

I think someone's even mad at me because I couldn't make that distinction. Ken Penders ruins friendly relationships!

Stay away.

OR if you want to read them, do what I do and start at 160 onward.

[GentlemanX]

2 hours ago, Rocketjay8 said:

Hey guys, I am thinking of reading the sonic comics, which one should I start on first?

Over at Archie Sonic Online, we've got a handy, dandy reading order for your Archie Sonic comic needs!

It depends on what you're interested in, but here's some spots I can recommend on where to start:

- Sonic the Hedgehog Ltd. #0 - Where it all began. If you want to read everything and not have to worry about missing something, this is the place to start. Be aware that the series was very corny and comedy focused early on, so don't start here expecting action packed and dramatic stories from the get go.

- Sonic the Hedgehog #25 - The adaptation of Sonic CD. This issue has great art by Patrick Spaziante and due to it's nature of being an adaptation of a popular game, might be more accessible to someone who isn't as familiar with the SatAM cast. It's also close to the start of when the series began to embrace the SatAM elements of the series more, so you'll be getting bigger stories with less of an emphasis on comedy (though there's still plenty at this point in the narrative).

- Sonic the Hedgehog #160 - The start of writer Ian Flynn's run. While Ian embraced a lot of the series' history, he did so through the lens of Sega Sonic's sensibilities, writing to appeal more toward readers familiar with the game elements. Widely considered a good jumping on point.

- Sonic the Hedgehog #219 - The beginning of the conflict involving Ixis Naugus as king. Let me be self indulgent for a second: maybe you want to read the currently ongoing ASO fan comics but want to have a clue what's going on with this Mecha Sally and King Naugus stuff, but don't want to track down hundreds of issues you may not be interested in. This is the real start of the last story the comics had been doing before the reboot happened, so you can focus on just this one arc, which is sorta ongoing and sorta-partially free online, without feeling like you're jumping into the deep end of the pool. Good if you're interested in the fan comics and want to know what's going on in them.

- Sonic the Hedgehog #252 - The reboot. Maybe you've heard about the pre-reboot stories and don't think it's quite your thing - in particular if they don't seem enough like the games. You can always start with the reboot, which many considered a fresh start to the comics without aspects that didn't seem like they belonged. Also tells essentially one big story over the course of it's run, a quasi-adaptation of Sonic Unleashed, rather than various stories that reference what came before. You can see the whole order for that here.

Your experience with Archie Sonic can be whatever you want out of it, so see what's a good fit for you. Happy reading!

[Cuz]

20 hours ago, Rocketjay8 said:

Hey guys, I am thinking of reading the sonic comics, which one should I start on first?

@Dr. Detective Mike has a point the IDW books are more convenient to jump into. They're only 36 issues deep right now, and, can be summed down into like just 3 arcs at the moment. I love Archie but running 24 years straight on has left it dense and it can be unapproachable to fresh eyes. The book is deservingly called out for it's low points, but the high points are worth it. That said I welcome anyone up the task, 

Let see, for jumping on points... as Mike just brought up, the run from issue #160 to #251 is highly praised. Why? Because Ian Flynn stepped up as head writer, and combined with artist Tracy Yardley, the comic suddenly had a slick relatively uniform art style while bringing a lot of the game's cast to the front of the book. Prior to #160 Shadow, and Rouge, were minor players in the cast, and you won't find Silver, Blaze, Cream, or Omega in any issues earlier then this. So if you're a modern fan you're likely predisposed to this era. Another thing going for it is that the book fell into a pattern of roughly 4-issue long arcs for a time (so they could be neatly re-packaged into graphic novels). If you want some quick payoffs to get you hooked at the start investing in those might be the way to go.

I'm thinking of: The Return of Enerjak, #175-177 (If there's a collective name for that one I've forgotten it), and it's technically before Ian's run, but I'd like to also include The Return to Angel Island as arcs that are good and sectioned off enough to stand alone. There's also Darkest Storm, but that one cashes in on the series own history for most for it's payoff. 

Looking back the reboot (#252-290) seems a little awkward to recommend, it was a fantastic jumping on point in it's day (take all the pros I just listed for Ian's run up to this point, and multiply it) but at only 38 issues it just doesn't get the chance to build up and payoff much and you might regret getting to the end so soon. 

If you fancy yourself a fan of the old school, or are a SatAM fan in particular, or are just curious why people like those damn freedom fighters, issues 25-50 are roughly the era that best reflect the cartoon (most of the issues older then this read more like newspaper comic strips and I would class as their own era). This run is a personal favorite, there's events like Mecha Madness (seriously I don't care were you decide to start but READ Mecha Madness! It's pretty much the best action story of older issues and holds up remarkable well), numerous classic game adaptations like: Sonic CD, Triple Trouble, 3D Blast, and then there's Endgame. Endgame is a lot of things, and ONE of those things is a decent finale for it's era. 

I don't recommend getting into what's now called the World Tour run (#51-74) without reading the SatAM era. On top of that the broader world building was just sort of a mess as the book struggles to find itself. There's some gems here, but I can't imagine it being a good place to start out.

 

 

...

No seriously, you can start reading IDW, and I'll still tell you to READ Mecha Madness! xb

 

 

[Dr. Detective]

There is a lot to Archie that is at the very least worth checking out, for sure. Most of it is NOT in the section of it I'm currently reading (but even then, I've praised some of the issues I've been reading when they do get things right) so be forewarned should you try and go through Archie. 

My earlier post may not have made that clear due to being saturated with so much bad right now on top of being in a bit of a bad mood.

[SBR2]

9 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I think someone's even mad at me because I couldn't make that distinction. Ken Penders ruins friendly relationships!

Whoa whoa I'm not mad I honestly didn't even think my comment about Julie-Su and Knuckles powers came off that confrontational. I'm not great at choosing my words sorry.

I'm also sorry if I made you feel dumb about this. Maybe it's another one of those things where I've read and looked into these comics so much that things like that are just common knowledge to me.

[Arthur_Cavendish]

I just finished Archives volume 24 after years of reading the series. That puts me at issue 91 and all I can say is...what happened to King Acorn? I always thought he was a cool character but post issue 50 he became such a douche to Sally. In previous issues they showed he cared for Sally but then they screwed up his character and made him completely unlikeable. Now I feel the  characterization betrayal that people felt when Luke Skywalker got reintroduced in Last Jedi. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

19 hours ago, Rocketjay8 said:

Hey guys, I am thinking of reading the sonic comics, which one should I start on first?

I’ll echo Cuz: If you want to read Archie, start at issue #252.

You don’t need to know any other issues before that point, as it’s a whole new canon and setting that’s based more in the games, with the added bonus of unifying many other characters from older cartoons with the modern cast.

After that, if you get curious, you’re welcome to read the earlier issues of the comic’s old canon. Things get wacky and bizarre before grounding itself...then things start going in random places after #50. The most acclaimed parts, and where Ian’s career in Sonic starts, is at #160 where the direction becomes a lot more centralized and focused.

Take your pick—the quality can be up or down, but it’s still Sonic.

[Rocketjay8]

On 1/27/2021 at 10:16 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

echidnas who are Nazis, and the dingos who are nazis, and how Robotnik was being likened to a nazi, and the stolen Nazi poem, and that time Charmy Bee was hospitalized because he ate a chili-dog laced with LSD (I'm NOT joking)

Welp, you just saved the majority of my brian cells from being destroyed

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Rocketjay8 said:

Welp, you just saved the majority of my brian cells from being destroyed

Well, as others have pointed out, the comic has been going on for so long, there are multiple starting points should you ever want to give Archie a try still, one day.

Issue 160 is when Ian Flynn takes the wheel on the Archie comics and it's always where I would start over whenever I wanted to re-read them.

Issue 252 is technically a reboot within the series... but I personally consider it to be a bit of an awkwardly handled one. At least at the start. Even for someone like me who had read all the issues from 142 onward by that point, Countdown to Chaos was a confusing mess to me. Trying to piece together what was happening, who was still around, where everyone was, WHY everyone was where they were, and etc during those fives issues was a chore. Granted, it was also kind of fun but still. 

However, my vote still is that the IDW comics are the best bet for anyone wanting to read Sonic comics. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I wouldn’t give IDW too much praise, and that has a lot more to do with Sega’s being heavy handed at times.

For instance, I never thought they would mishandle Shadow given how superb they handled him in Archie. 

That said, IDW does carry the spirit of Archie mainly by virtue of the team behind it being the same. So you’d have less of an problem starting from 252 and going into IDW than if you were a long timer that had to endure two reboots and loss of characters.