The Fallen Cast...

[Phos]

Actually, I'm talking about the giant laser from Sonic 3K's final boss.

Also, I think I should elaborate on what I meant by

This seems like a good time to remind you that we're talking about a game about forest critters stopping a scientist that supposedly looks like an egg from stealing stuff.

I mean that stopping Eggman and those Eggman's robots is what they do, it doesn't seem like there's any great need for justification as to why Knuckles is there. He doesn't even really have to travel with the rest of the characters or go the same route through the game if he doesn't have anything to do.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

This just shifts it to shoehorning in the ME so that Knuckles can be included.

And we would allow that just so Knuckles could appear in the plot?

Eggman's never done any damage with the ME, so he obviously doesn't really need it to cause any damage, therefore Knuckles should provide as much assistance in stopping him to minimize the damage.

That's not what I was saying.

In the process of getting the ME or whatever object he's after, he's done some serious damage in the process. And when he makes getting that object his focus, most of the time he's likely to succeed at getting it before the final steps of his plans are completed. However, once things get to that point his plans end up failing because of Sonic's intervention.

While he was going after the ME in S3&K he caused quite a bit of destruction in the process before he actually got a hold of the ME, and once that happened and he launched his Death Egg things fell apart as Sonic infiltrated and destroyed the massive space station rigth after it reached its point in orbit. That an example of what I was saying when he puts the cherry on the top of his plans and fails at the last moment. He completed his objectives of stealing the ME and using it to launch his ship, and in the process of doing so he caused a certain amount of destruction before he actually got his hands on the massive jewel. Right after that, Sonic messed everything up for him and destroyed all the work he put into his plans. And even when it isn't Sonic who causes a massive shift in his plans, he does a lot of damage, particularly in SA2 where he blew up half the moon and destroyed a massive portion of Prison Island, or in Unleashed where he cracked open the world to free Dark Gaia, and if his missile wasn't a dud in SA1, Station Square would've been another addition to that list (even if he was going to blow himself up in the process), and the last one goes without saying that he already lost at that point and yet he still wasn't done.

But on the subject of Knuckles appearing in the plot, he should provide assistance only where it directly involves him in some form, like it should with any other character outside of Sonic, Tails, and Eggman, otherwise you might as well allow things to be another Heroes or Sonic 06 in terms of adding characters into the plot.

SA 2 makes a mess of everything when you try to incorporate it into anything (even itself sometimes). Eggman states that he doesn't have any use for the ME, and the only reason he stole it was because it was interfering with his dragon emerald radar. I guess he meant no use except for a giant laser and an orbital space station, it's really easy to forget that.

Umm, SA2 makes a lot of sense when you incorporate in into the main series. I don't see how that one scene makes a mess of the entire plot, let alone the game's plot in comparison to all the other plots in the series. Even if that were so, Heroes and Sonic 06 make a far bigger mess by comparison and an even more obvious one to boot.

I mean that stopping Eggman and those Eggman's robots is what they do, it doesn't seem like there's any great need for justification as to why Knuckles is there. He doesn't even really have to travel with the rest of the characters or go the same route through the game if he doesn't have anything to do.

Neither would any other character if we were to follow that. Even Shadow, Blaze, or Cream would practically be free to appear at anytime if they around just to stop Eggman, so unless your okay with them being around the same reason of stopping Eggman (which I'm personally against for most of the characters), Knuckles shouldn't be made an exception.

However, the plots aren't that streamlined as they have more structure to them than just "stopping Eggman and those robots". A lot of games since SA1's debut have been more detailed than that, for better or worse.

Edited July 2, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Rusty Spy]

And we would allow that just so Knuckles could appear in the plot?

It's definitely going to feel like that. If they want Knuckles to be in the plot, they're gonna be forced to include the M.E in some form, which is the definition of shoehorning. The M.E itself would already be a stale plot device at this point, and using it as justification for Knuckles being in the story would kill both the M.E and Knux's characters.

If it's not Knuckles, then it's the M.E.

While he was going after the ME in S3&K he caused quite a bit of destruction in the process before he actually got a hold of the ME, and once that happened and he launched his Death Egg things fell apart as Sonic infiltrated and destroyed the massive space station rigth after it reached its point in orbit. That an example of what I was saying when he puts the cherry on the top of his plans and fails at the last moment. He completed his objectives of stealing the ME and using it to launch his ship, and in the process of doing so he caused a certain amount of destruction before he actually got his hands on the massive jewel. Right after that, Sonic messed everything up for him and destroyed all the work he put into his plans. And even when it isn't Sonic who causes a massive shift in his plans, he does a lot of damage, particularly in SA2 where he blew up half the moon and destroyed a massive portion of Prison Island, or in Unleashed where he cracked open the world to free Dark Gaia, and if his missile wasn't a dud in SA1, Station Square would've been another addition to that list (even if he was going to blow himself up in the process), and the last one goes without saying that he already lost at that point and yet he still wasn't done.

In this case, he only succeeded that far because Knuckles was busy causing Sonic and Tails trouble.

And how does that justify Knuckles staying around on his island to protect the M.E when he COULD be on the front lines helping to minimize the damage?

Edited July 2, 2010 by Black Spy

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It's definitely going to feel like that. If they want Knuckles to be in the plot, they're gonna be forced to include the M.E in some form, which is the definition of shoehorning. The M.E itself would already be a stale plot device at this point, and using it as justification for Knuckles being in the story would kill both the M.E and Knux's characters.

If it's not Knuckles, then it's the M.E.

Then it just goes without saying that they could do that with any character...

Honestly, the only way I see the M.E. being a stale plot device is if they use it too frequently. Believe it or not, a lot can be done with the M.E.; it's a super large and ultra powerful Chaos Emerald, and given the fact that the regular Chaos Emeralds have an indefinite use, the M.E. falls under similar grounds except with a few strong restrictions that keep it from being used to the same extent.

However, if they use it too frequently, in every game, then it will become stale and likely drag Knuckles with it.

Either way, shoehorning is a bad idea for Knuckles and the M.E....and any other character apart from Sonic, Eggman, and Tails.

And how does that justify Knuckles staying around on his island to protect the M.E when he COULD be on the front lines helping to minimize the damage?

That wasn't to justify why Knuckles should stay on his island, that was just me explaining how Eggman plans fail right after he succeeds in getting his hands on whatever object makes a big part in his plan and causing some trail of destruction until leading up to the final phase of his plan, where his goals end up falling apart.

As for why Knuckles should stay around protecting the M.E. it's because he's not always needed on the frontlines to minimize damage, just like Shadow isn't needed to be around to minimize damage either. If it's to minimize the amount of damage that Eggman would cause then not only do you justify why Knuckles, but as I've said before you've also justified why all the other characters are around as well, which some people would hypocritically ask why all the other characters are around when they claim "we don't need them".

For your average scheme run by Eggman, Sonic and Tails alone are enough to handle the threat. Sonic was able to piece back the world when it was blown apart by Eggman in Unleashed, and Tails wasn't even needed to help very much. If Sonic can handle that without too much help, why should anyone else be around when Sonic's already got practically all of it covered? Of course, there is the fact that additional help could've gotten all that work done faster, but then you could bring in the whole cast to speed it up even more than you would by just bringing Knuckles into the fray, which would bring up the other debate as to why there are so many characters around by your typical folks who don't like them.

The way I see it, if you want a way for Knuckles to be around, Eggman or something else has to cross paths and stir up trouble in his area for him to be around.

In other words, if Eggman or someone else in the plot fucks with Knuckles in some form, Knuckles has every reason to spring into action that wouldn't involve anyone else's business. Likewise, if Eggman fucks with Rouge or Blaze, they have an excuse to get involved where it doesn't concern anyone else. It can get a bit more detailed than that, but that's just the simplified explanation

The only exceptions are essentially Sonic and Tails to a lesser extent; if Eggman causes trouble anywhere, they always have an excuse to spring into action. Other than that, the threat has to directly involve the other characters to the point where it becomes their own vandetta to get involved. Just saving the world is too vague and allows for every character to get involved rather than just a specific number of them.

Edited July 2, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Rusty Spy]

Honestly, the only way I see the M.E. being a stale plot device is if they use it too frequently.

And that's what would happen if you used it as Knuckles' only excuse for being in the plot.

If Sonic can handle that without too much help, why should anyone else be around when Sonic's already got most of it covered?

Because it makes an interesting game and plot.

Of course, there is the fact that additional help could've gotten all that work done faster, but then you could bring in the whole cast to speed it up even more than you would by just bringing Knuckles into the fray, which would bring up the other debate as to why there are so many characters around by your typical folks who don't like them.

Well I assume the other character's justification for being in the plot would be discussed later on when the subject of the thread changes to them.

The way I see it, if you want a way for Knuckles to be around, Eggman or something else has to cross paths and stir up trouble in his area for him to be around.

Then let it be so. Don't drag the M.E into everything or complain that Knuckles isn't marooned on his island 24/7.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

And that's what would happen if you used it as Knuckles' only excuse for being in the plot.

But you can use it A LOT even if it was Knuckles' only excuse for being in the plot. The problem comes from them using it plot after plot after plot instead of alternating it at certain parts, or if there's not much of a good explaination as to why whatever is going on in the plot involves Knuckles without him maintaining his duties.

Because it makes an interesting game and plot.

That I won't deny, but you still have my other points that still stand.

Well I assume the other character's justification for being in the plot would be discussed later on when the subject of the thread changes to them.

Yep.

I could change it right now. Edit: Done.

Then let it be so. Don't drag the M.E into everything or complain that Knuckles isn't marooned on his island 24/7.

Well I would never do the latter. I only bring up Knuckles' duties whenever he's being shoehorned, otherwise I wouldn't have said too much on it at all.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That said, why don't we jump on a different boat here? We'll eventually comeback to Knuckles at a certain point.

The next character I'm going to bring up is Amy Rose (boy, this might be really short if people don't have much to say about her).

Amy Rose is what most fans come to know of as Sonic's obsessive stalker and fangirl. You'd have to be a blind not to see that basic aspect in her. However, that said she also has a bit of development to her that I don't think a lot of people realize.

During her debut in Sonic CD, she barely contributed anything very much. You saw her in the first level Palmtree Panic, then she get kidnapped in the second level Collision Chaos, and then you don't see her again until Stardust Speedway. If the series never progressed after S3&K, it would be strongly implied that she would've been the most useless and lacking character in the series.

Thank goodness she progressed afterwards when SA1 came. Her designed changed, making her look less of what I like to call a "Pink Sonic in a tutu" and more of a character who stood out in terms of appearance...but that's practically irrelevant. It's a good thing we're only on the character in terms of plot and characterization rather than gameplay.

In any case, Amy's development has been rather wide in contrast with how a lot of people would probably see her. She's played roles such as Damsel in Distress, to Team Leader, to somewhat of a Caregiver and any other good aspects you can think of if you look deeply into her.

Amy is no doubt more dynamic of a character than a lot of people realize. SA1 had her running away from Zero most of the time before she finally stood up and took the robot one-on-one. SA2 had her help free Sonic from his prison cell when he was captured, and helped Shadow uncover Maria's true promise which was hidden under the thoughts which Gerald manipulated in order to have Shadow destroy the earth. She deserves more credit; despite what you may think of her, if it wasn't for her convincing Shadow otherwise (or whatever you would call it), the Earth would've probably been destroyed without his help.

Even if Sonic isn't that into Amy, he should at the very least be more thankful for all the stuff she's done for him. I don't know if anyone else would've brought Shadow into the light in SA2, or protect him from Silver's assault on him in Sonic 06 when he was practically beaten. For some strange reason, she happens to be in the wrong place at the right time depending on her goals (which don't seem to evolve into much other than stalking Sonic).

That said, we're not going to ignore where she fell flat. She didn't really contribute too much in Unleashed, but hey, neither did Tails. She definitely needs her eyes checked, since it becomes somewhat of a running gag of her mistaking other hedgehogs for Sonic.

However, that said, her flaws are also very apparent. Despite all the good things she's done, she never seems to have much other development that doesn't involve her chasing after Sonic. She did help Big and Cream find their respective friends in Heroes, and help weaken Metal Overlord in the final story. But her goals are generally one-sided. Whenever she seems to grow from actions other than finding Sonic, she regresses back to the orignal goal she once had. That's not to say she can't have her mind set on Sonic, but it would help if her goals were as dynamic as her actions. She's not afraid to jump in and risk her life to save a friend in danger, but it seems as though her only mission is the only thing that stands out.

I don't mind having her grow out of her shell and become less obsessive over Sonic or growing out of him in general. But needless to say, she could do along with more than just going after Sonic each game. It limits her in terms of repetitivity. While Sonic has a repetitive task of stopping Eggman every time he hatches a scheme, the way he goes about it is rather dynamic due to the ways he could stop him (or be trumped by someone who does it before him if that actually happens).

Amy doesn't seem to stretch any further out of that shell if we're to go by what she is given. It seems that only when there are more characters around does the more dynamic aspects of her show, where seeking out Sonic isn't exactly #1 in her priority. SA1 is a good example of this point, as she didn't exactly follow Sonic around most of the time, and getting Sonic to go out with her wasn't even on her mind. The thing she was most concerned was on helping the bird that came into her care, and Sonic just happened to come around in her vicinity at a certain point. Even more ironic is that she stood against the very hedgehog she has a obsessive crush over in order to protect another friend who helped her, meaning she's willing to stand up even to guys like Sonic to save someone else from his actions. Over time, that seemed to dwindle a bit and she hasn't exactly shown too much like that in recent games.

Amy's obsessiveness makes a big part of who she is, but that very trait may be something that could limit her in terms of what she could potentially due if that becomes an even bigger part of her. The more obsessive she is, the less likely she may be useful for making a plot more interesting, although I'll be the first to say that that's really arguable no matter how I want to swing at that. But honestly, I think she could become a more effective character if there was more to her priorities than just her crush on Sonic. I think she could do well if she grew and had a more subtler approach at her affections, where she keeps her interests in Sonic as apparent to him but doesn't make that her primary focus every time the blue blur gets within eyesight of her. Now what other priorities she could have is something up for wonder.

Thoughts? And try to keep it neutral haters and fanboys.

I just hope we can last a good while discussing Amy.

EDIT: Holy crap! I didn't know I had that much to say about Amy!

Edited July 2, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Rusty Spy]

Well I would never do the latter. I only bring up Knuckles' duties whenever he's being shoehorned, otherwise I wouldn't have said anything on it at all.

Then we are in agreement. *dust hands off* Well that ended cleanly.

Honestly, Amy has a lot of potential to be a badass normal, she has a lot of material about her that could be expressed into her character more to give her some depth. I especially liked how she was portrayed in Sonic X of all things(and to an extent Battle) where she actually did something other than drool over Sonic. She was shown to have some hobbies and things to do, and, at one point at least, being the Snap Out of it Man person to Sonic.

She could be the badass normal in battle, the ditz on some occasions or the Genki. That along with her Stalker With a Crush status is enough for an entertaining character.

[Dr. Crusher]

Not to be rude, but wouldn't it be easier to just make "Fallen Cast" threads relating to various characters? There might be people that wanted to speak about Shadow, only to find out that the thread's switched to talking about Cream. I understand if you think it might get too crowded though or something, that's just how I see it.

Amy... eh. Like most people, the Adventure series was when she worked best - she did more than just obsess over Sonic, and was even capable of kickaing ass. But then Heroes came and... yeah.

I'm going to be flamed for this, but I didn't like her in Sonic X... because, and I know this is gonna sound strange no matter how I say it, but she seems too... anime. Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against anime - I loved the Sonic OVA after all. But Amy in Sonic X (and eventually the games starting with Heroes) is your typical hyper giddy loud easily-angered violent girl who makes "even the bad guy scared of angering her". It's something that I just don't appreciate regarding Sonic, similar to "the true darkness is within yourself" gig (read: Dark Super Sonic).

On top of that, Amy seems to be used as a comical character these days for doing nothing except bothering Sonic, and that's not fair, both on Sonic and Amy. It's even worse whenever other girls get involved, because you can guarantee that Amy will show up and fume and shout at the girl for just talking to Sonic.

So yeah. Tone down Amy's fangirlism. She can do things and be a cool character whilst crushing on Sonic. Also, I'd like her to be... smarter. The constant identity mishaps keep on giving the illusion that Amy is retarded, and that's no good. She should be quick but wise, just like how Knuckles was before Heroes. And maybe get some new clothes.

Sorry if this sounds like Amy bashing, I just hate how SEGA have misused her for so long.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

She could be the badass normal in battle, the ditz on some occasions or the Genki. That along with her Stalker With a Crush status is enough for an entertaining character.

One thing I quite like about Amy is that, amongst the Sonic characters, she's sorta the Everyman Everygirl. Has no explicit super-speed / super-strength / super-flight moves to her name - she's got 1337 Thorhammer sk1llz and occasionally matches pace with Sonic in gameplay, but these traits aren't displayed as core parts of her character. She's just a girl with a crush, and does many more 'normal' things than all the other cast members put together: like shop for groceries, exercise, own a city apartment, blahblahblah.

I appreciated it in SA1 when she actually got involved in the story for reasons other than "OMG SONIKKU!! ^____^ ": just being a decent human being hedgehog in taking care of a lost Flicky - which would, to pretty much all other characters (even the explicitly good ones) simply be another collateral victim of Eggman's continental trail of misery.

No objection to her going "OMG SONIKKU!! ^____^ " the moment she does see him, but after Adventure 2, Heroes, 2006, and Unleashed - where she just turns up, having apparently stalked Sonic all the way there, it's getting a bit old as her means of introduction to the games.

[Blazey Firekitty]

If nothing else, Amy gets points for being one of the only Sonic protagonists to wield a melee weapon on a regular basis, making her somewhat unique. If I recall correctly, the only other character who fights in a similar way is Big.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Not to be rude, but wouldn't it be easier to just make "Fallen Cast" threads relating to various characters? There might be people that wanted to speak about Shadow, only to find out that the thread's switched to talking about Cream. I understand if you think it might get too crowded though or something, that's just how I see it.

I know people want to speak about Shadow. I do too. But yes, I wanted to focus on a single character at a time than just the whole cast. You see how much I said for Amy Rose and Knuckles in separate posts? Imagine how that would've been if I had done the whole cast...which I am more than capable of doing.

Sorry if this sounds like Amy bashing, I just hate how SEGA have misused her for so long.

Like I said, just keep it neutral.

[Dr. Crusher]

I meant as in a thread for each character - a Knuckles thread, an Amy thread, a Shadow thread, etc etc, that way we can talk about them all without any interference from others with relative ease. On the other hand I can see how it could act as a lot of weights.

[Phos]

Neither would any other character if we were to follow that. Even Shadow, Blaze, or Cream would practically be free to appear at anytime if they around just to stop Eggman, so unless your okay with them being around the same reason of stopping Eggman (which I'm personally against for most of the characters), Knuckles shouldn't be made an exception.

That's never really been much of a thing for those guys, Shadow dealing with him was mostly incidental while he did basically whatever, Cream rescued Vanilla a while back already, Blaze has her own things to deal with, and then there's the whole "being in another dimension" thing, it's not like they can just open some interdenominational rift whenever they want to, contact between the dimensions was just something that the emeralds happened to do.

Robotnik's plots typically involve the emeralds somehow, and given Knuckles's close ties to them, it only makes sense for him to be involved. He also has yet to really get back at him for the mess he caused at Angel Island.

I'm going to be flamed for this, but I didn't like her in Sonic X... because, and I know this is gonna sound strange no matter how I say it, but she seems too... anime.

90% of anime is crap because 90% of everything is crap. The only difference is that a lot of crappy anime finds an audience somehow or other.

Amy's new design is often creepy when drawn on paper, and only gets worse in 3D:

Maybe it's unfair to use 06 artwork, because it seemed like half the characters in that game were about to grotesquely fall apart at the seams.

Amy's character has been so all over the map I barely know where to start. Her Adventure 2 characterization follows decently from Adventure 1, but after that, it's anyone's guess. In Heroes, everyone basically does whatever they needed to do to form the three teams. In Battle, she behaves like she drank sea water, frequently hallucinating and having a loose grip on reality. Her tendency to lash out at Sonic in the Advance games might be one of the biggest contributers to her stalker image, her juxtaposition of threats of violence against someone she supposedly cares for it pretty characteristic of a stalker.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I meant as in a thread for each character - a Knuckles thread, an Amy thread, a Shadow thread, etc etc, that way we can talk about them all without any interference from others with relative ease. On the other hand I can see how it could act as a lot of weights.

Yeah, that wouldn't be a wise idea. I would flood the hell out of this subforum's first page with a thread for each seperate character, and I have quite a lot to say about the whole recurring cast. We'd have to have a whole new subforum for that, and I'm not sure if the mods would be up for that. I'd like to keep it a bit simpler.

That's never really been much of a thing for those guys, Shadow dealing with him was mostly incidental while he did basically whatever, Cream rescued Vanilla a while back already, Blaze has her own things to deal with, and then there's the whole "being in another dimension" thing, it's not like they can just open some interdenominational rift whenever they want to, contact between the dimensions was just something that the emeralds happened to do.

So would we be in agreement for not shoehorning characters in general or do we oppose each other in that regard? I for one am against it, however, I'm not sure where you stand on it.

Robotnik's plots typically involve the emeralds somehow, and given Knuckles's close ties to them, it only makes sense for him to be involved.

Not all the time, however.

As a matter of fact, even when he is involved in the plot he's barely shown any of those ties since the Adventures. Shadow starting to take on those ties in a similar light, while Sonic still maintains the strongest ties to them. However, we'll save that discussion at a different point later on.

Amy's new design is often creepy when drawn on paper, and only gets worse in 3D:

You've said this before, but I've never actually tried to understand what you're seeing.

What is it about her new design that makes her look creepy?

Amy's character has been so all over the map I barely know where to start. Her Adventure 2 characterization follows decently from Adventure 1, but after that, it's anyone's guess. In Heroes, everyone basically does whatever they needed to do to form the three teams. In Battle, she behaves like she drank sea water, frequently hallucinating and having a loose grip on reality. Her tendency to lash out at Sonic in the Advance games might be one of the biggest contributers to her stalker image, her juxtaposition of threats of violence against someone she supposedly cares for it pretty characteristic of a stalker.

It just brings into question what the writer's have been smoking, eh?

However, you're making her out in a more negative light than she is. Is there anything she could do in the future to make her characterization better?

Edited July 3, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Amy's character has been so all over the map I barely know where to start. Her Adventure 2 characterization follows decently from Adventure 1, but after that, it's anyone's guess. In Heroes, everyone basically does whatever they needed to do to form the three teams. In Battle, she behaves like she drank sea water, frequently hallucinating and having a loose grip on reality. Her tendency to lash out at Sonic in the Advance games might be one of the biggest contributers to her stalker image, her juxtaposition of threats of violence against someone she supposedly cares for it pretty characteristic of a stalker.

Hahahaha, that bit is great. Doesn't she beat up Rouge with the help of a hallucinagenic Sonic or something?

IIRC she also pulls a Frieza by using "Only two percent" of her power, until she finally decides to take her iron shackles off.

Yes, Amy does come across as quite mad in Battle. But at least it's funny mad, rather than retarded mad.

[Rusty Spy]

Her tendency to lash out at Sonic in the Advance games might be one of the biggest contributers to her stalker image, her juxtaposition of threats of violence against someone she supposedly cares for it pretty characteristic of a stalker.

She's 12. Not uncommon for people her age, especially girls with a crush, to act a bit immature and over react at times. The only danger is that she has the ability to do serious damage.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

She's 12. Not uncommon for people her age, especially girls with a crush, to act a bit immature and over react at times. The only danger is that she has the ability to do serious damage.

That said, I wonder how she would be if she matured more while still keeping her crush on Sonic? Not that I expect her to change completely, but it would be interesting to know what other roles she could take on if she grew up more in terms of her attitude...

It could probably open a lot of possibilities for her. I once had a idea of her joining GUN along with Shadow and Rouge. If she did that, and I mean IF she did that, it makes me wonder what her relationship with all the other characters would be.

Or she could be an assistant for Tails. I don't think this series has any female intelectuals along a similar caliber to Tails and Eggman...then again, if she did become any smarter, she would probably be more dangerous with the thought of her upgrading her hammer to more destructive levels.

Honestly, I think she would really broaden herself a whole lot more, and make her appear much more than the stalker portrayal she has on her.

[Blazey Firekitty]

That said, I wonder how she would be if she matured more while still keeping her crush on Sonic? Not that I expect her to change completely, but it would be interesting to know what other roles she could take on if she grew up more in terms of her attitude...

It could probably open a lot of possibilities for her. I once had a idea of her joining GUN along with Shadow and Rouge. If she did that, and I mean IF she did that, it makes me wonder what her relationship with all the other characters would be.

Or she could be an assistant for Tails. I don't think this series has any female intelectuals along a similar caliber to Tails and Eggman...then again, if she did become any smarter, she would probably be more dangerous with the thought of her upgrading her hammer to more destructive levels.

Honestly, I think she would really broaden herself a whole lot more, and make her appear much more than the stalker portrayal she has on her.

I feel that this shows that there's a problem, not just with Amy, but with the whole series, in that, as much as the series likes to talk about always moving forward, nobody grows or changes for the most part. I can kind of understand if some people prefer it that way, but it can get dull.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Or she could be an assistant for Tails. I don't think this series has any female intelectuals along a similar caliber to Tails and Eggman...then again, if she did become any smarter, she would probably be more dangerous with the thought of her upgrading her hammer to more destructive levels.

HAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIII

*I add the caveat that Tails is NOT of similar calibre to Eggman either. And until he gets his own Pixel Scrap Brain Zone nothing the fox does will prove otherwise.

Edited July 4, 2010 by Frozen Nitrogen

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I feel that this shows that there's a problem, not just with Amy, but with the whole series, in that, as much as the series likes to talk about always moving forward, nobody grows or changes for the most part. I can kind of understand if some people prefer it that way, but it can get dull.

You know, in the 19 years I've been into this series, I've never even looked at it like that.

Even when there is an attempt at trying to progress the characterization of the characters it seems to fall flat. Amy recieved some of her best moments in the Adventures and even in Sonic Oshit 06 to an extent. Come to think about it, characterization has actually been more all over the place for some of them.

HAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIII

Oh yeah, I complete forgot about her.

*I add the caveat that Tails is NOT of similar calibre to Eggman either. And until he gets his own Pixel Scrap Brain Zone nothing the fox does will prove otherwise.

Time will tell when that'll happen tho.

Edited July 4, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Rusty Spy]

That said, I wonder how she would be if she matured more while still keeping her crush on Sonic? Not that I expect her to change completely, but it would be interesting to know what other roles she could take on if she grew up more in terms of her attitude...

It could probably open a lot of possibilities for her. I once had a idea of her joining GUN along with Shadow and Rouge. If she did that, and I mean IF she did that, it makes me wonder what her relationship with all the other characters would be.

Or she could be an assistant for Tails. I don't think this series has any female intelectuals along a similar caliber to Tails and Eggman...then again, if she did become any smarter, she would probably be more dangerous with the thought of her upgrading her hammer to more destructive levels.

Honestly, I think she would really broaden herself a whole lot more, and make her appear much more than the stalker portrayal she has on her.

It would be interesting if it were to focus on a Time Skip. Though I doubt Amy would be really into the whole army idea, and I doubt she'd be much help to Tails.

If I were to give an exact prediction of how Amy might turn out if she matured more, I'd say the answer was already presented to us; in Sonic X and Battle she acts as sort of a big sister/second mother to Cream and basically does ordinary hobbies.

I feel that this shows that there's a problem, not just with Amy, but with the whole series, in that, as much as the series likes to talk about always moving forward, nobody grows or changes for the most part.

It's not about changing, but working towards a better future.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It would be interesting if it were to focus on a Time Skip. Though I doubt Amy would be really into the whole army idea, and I doubt she'd be much help to Tails.

Eh, it was just a few things off the top of my head that I thought would be really interesting. She's not incapable of learning things from Tails or wanting some form of discipline in an army tho, but those aren't her only options she can go with.

[Blazey Firekitty]

It's not about changing, but working towards a better future.

I suppose not so much doing new things, as learning to better savor what they(The characters) already have? That makes a certain kind of sense.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

I feel that this shows that there's a problem, not just with Amy, but with the whole series, in that, as much as the series likes to talk about always moving forward, nobody grows or changes for the most part. I can kind of understand if some people prefer it that way, but it can get dull.

Yes, I'll fly the flag for the "stasis supporters". One man's character development is another man's character derailment - I recall all the fun raegfights civilized debate I had with El Gran Gordo about softening Eggman. Having a character develop a trait DURING ONE GAME is all well and good (Tails SA1 springs to mind), but when you make it stick and carry over, not only are you going to piss off the people who considered it derailment, you're also gonna confuse the shit out of people who didn't play that one game.

Rather than character development - that is, screwing around with the fundamental charactersitics that made us fall in love with them in the first place - I'd suggest more in the way of character exploration. Rather than shifting their personalities sideways for novel gimmickry, I think it's more fun to look at them DEEPER. Why does Tails still want to run to Sonic when there's trouble about, despite being capable of Rambo-ing an entire Kukku Empire? Why does Knuckles take suspiciously numerous trips away from his island to help Sonic with stuff that has nothing to do with the ME? Why does Amy do nothing but stalk Soic across the face of the Earth all the time?

...yes, I realise that the answer to all those questions is "hackneyed, childish writing", but I'm sure script-makers could come up with some interesting, legitimate pathos if they put their minds to it.

This in between the ROBOTS, LASERS, AND EXPLOSIONS, which should always remain the primary concern.

[Blazey Firekitty]

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, Frozen, you'd prefer that, rather than try to change the characters, the games better explain the motivations of the characters, since we know relatively little about them as they are?