An atheist remark

[Agent York]

I now feel lucky, where I live is so open to all kinds of people I have never had any problems with being an atheist. It's so diverse in my city and the whole place has a huge sense of community and city pride, it's one of those cities where everyone says howdy and will start a conversation from the hobos to the business men in suits.

Except we don't like Republicans. As silly as it seems, everyone is accepted no matter what color, religion, beliefs, background are accepted and welcomed with open arms as long as you're not a republican (or at least can deal with some republican hate, it's not so much people hate Republicans themselves but there's lots of... "disagreements", to put it lightly, with Republicans actions here). Oh la' la'....

Anyways though, I think she blew it out of proportion. MAYBE I only say this as an atheist myself who believes mainly in human will power, but America is a land with all types of diversity. I have said that too because I don't want to be a hypocrite. If I say "Oh my god"; that doesn't make sense in context since I'm an atheist and as such I don't believe in him and have done the exact same thing you have before. Never called out on it, but for good reason. Why she took so much offense to you saying that feels like she took it way to personally as if you were somehow directly attacking her beliefs for believing something different. She might of just been ticked off at something else at the time, but this likely wasn't the first time she's had to "deal" with other peoples religious views, and it won't be the last.

I mean I have people and good Samaritans and all that talk about Christianity and god and people trying to convince me to join this-and-this church, but you don't see me complaining or breaking down on people because they say there is a god.

[TheGerkuman]

It should cut both ways obviously; it's freedom of expression, afterall. I mean, I'm not offended by other people not believing or thinking that God doesn't exist because when someone makes a claim that's what they mean. No-one has the authority to say that they are 100% correct on anything, therefore how could it be offensive to state an opinion? I just hope that, just as I'm not offended when Athiests state their opinions, that others will not be offended when I as a Christian state mine.

I get crap like, fossils aren't real, God put them there and Carbon Dating is a trick he made to test the unfaithful

The crap that some Christians come up with sometimes...

[LunarEdge]

I personally find it hard that a deity that's suppose to love you with all of his being, will banish you to a place like hell for all eternity... but yet that deity still loves you.... yea right, even a real life father would never do that, regardless of relationship with said family member.

[Flyboy Fox]

Let's be careful not to turn this into an "Is religious belief good/bad/true/false" thread... the discussion topic is about an alleged hypocrisy in the freedom to openly state those beliefs, not whether those beliefs are in fact the truth or not. I'd like to draw that distinction before this interesting topic goes the way of almost all religion-based topics on the forum ^^;

Personally, I do think there is a double standard. For example, we are all used to seeing religious messages on billboards above highways, on flyers through our doors, and of course on message boards and signposts outside church. We seem to have gotten very used to accepting that it's okay to have banners saying "Jesus loves you" and other faith-specific messages around us, and that we can just choose to ignore them if we do not agree with their message. It is not considered offensive or an imposition, as we are free to take it or leave it.

HOWEVER, I'm sure almost everyone who lives in the UK and has an ear to the ground will remember the atheist bus scandal. The outcry over the horribly offensive messages that were put up on some buses and in trains for a while in parts of the country. What did those messages say? Were they cruel, taunting, angry messages? No. No, in fact this is all they said: "There is probably no God, so stop worrying and enjoy your life". Yes, that is all. Not even "There IS no God". Just a calm, down to earth statement of an alternative viewpoint. Yet many many people found this FAR more offensive than messages that told people they would go to hell if they didn't do what they were commanded to do.

And this is where the ultimate hypocrisy lies. Live and let live. We should all be allowed to express our beliefs - or lack of them, if we so wish.

[Velotix von Skruviktorrius]

HOWEVER, I'm sure almost everyone who lives in the UK and has an ear to the ground will remember the atheist bus scandal. The outcry over the horribly offensive messages that were put up on some buses and in trains for a while in parts of the country. What did those messages say? Were they cruel, taunting, angry messages? No. No, in fact this is all they said: "There is probably no God, so stop worrying and enjoy your life". Yes, that is all. Not even "There IS no God". Just a calm, down to earth statement of an alternative viewpoint. Yet many many people found this FAR more offensive than messages that told people they would go to hell if they didn't do what they were commanded to do.

It's a testament to the giant rock I live under that I haven't heard of this. Would you care to elaborate? ^^

[Flyboy Fox]

Certainly:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7681914.stm

[Velotix von Skruviktorrius]

But Stephen Green of pressure group Christian Voice said: "Bendy-buses, like atheism, are a danger to the public at large..."

LOL

"...I should be surprised if a quasi-religious advertising campaign like this did not attract graffiti.

"People don't like being preached at. Sometimes it does them good, but they still don't like it."

LOL

Thanks, I needed that laugh today.

[Badnik Zero]

But see I'm very against any kind of organized atheism. Two people don't believe in god, and what does that give them in common. They might be analytical, and unwilling to take a book's word for it. They might be looking for a certain truth in life or maybe they found it, or maybe they don't care about that kind of thing at all.

I'm not really willing to put up a united front against religion, because it doesn't bother me if people believe in god. Who cares. I understand how those bus signs would be offensive. Try and tell me they're not condescending. "Jesus loves you. You don't even know it but he does. Earn a ticket to heaven." Unoffensive?

[Pelly <3's U]

But see I'm very against any kind of organized atheism. Two people don't believe in god, and what does that give them in common. They might be analytical, and unwilling to take a book's word for it. They might be looking for a certain truth in life or maybe they found it, or maybe they don't care about that kind of thing at all.

I'm not really willing to put up a united front against religion, because it doesn't bother me if people believe in god. Who cares. I understand how those bus signs would be offensive. Try and tell me they're not condescending. "Jesus loves you. You don't even know it but he does. Earn a ticket to heaven." Unoffensive?

I completely disagree. Why can't atheists be united under something? I do talk to my other atheist friends much in the same way that I believe people who share a common religious belief would. When you share beliefs with people you usually automatically have some kind of bond, and it does draw people together whether knowingly or not.

I think right now you're perpetrating the double standard against atheists. I have had to put up with religious people putting Jesus tracts in my candy bag on halloween almost every year I went trick or treating, I see religious billboards and signs around my town, and crosses and commandments are displayed proudly. One sign on a bus that was not attacking religion but promoting an atheist viewpoint shouldn't be seen as any different (and I think a fair few things religious people have put out are much more condescending, hello saying I'll burn in hell).

[Flyboy Fox]

Atheism can either be seen as a belief system ("I believe there is no god"), or the lack of a belief system ("I lack a belief in God"). For those who wish to view it as a belief system, I do not see why it should be any less valid then any other belief system, nor why those who ascribe to it shouldn't be allowed to speak as openly and candidly about it as any other person with a belief they wish to share.

[Badnik Zero]

Maybe it's my apathy that makes me say that. But I see proselytizing as a kind of fanaticism.

It doesn't matter to me what someone believes in, so displaying my belief on a banner isn't something I'm interested in. Double standards are usually a case of they're doing it, so why can't I? But I think when religious people do it it's bullshit. I don't want to get caught up in bullshit of my own. Lol, am I being too neutral?

Edited June 10, 2010 by Dabnikz

[Diogenes]

I'm not really willing to put up a united front against religion, because it doesn't bother me if people believe in god. Who cares.

I think you're kind of missing the point. It's not about getting together to try to make people not believe. It's more about things like showing potential atheists (or those afraid of "coming out") that they aren't alone, showing that atheism is a valid viewpoint and not just a bunch of bitter god-hating sinners (or whatever baseless stereotype they drag out), and protecting the right to not believe and the rights of those who don't believe.

Maybe you're lucky enough to live in a place where being an atheist is treated with the same respect as being a Christian. But not everywhere is like that. And sometimes it seems like most places aren't like that. There are real and significant issues out there, and even if they're joined only in their atheism, they have every right and every reason to group together to defend themselves and others.

[Pelly <3's U]

Maybe it's my apathy that makes me say that. But I see proselytizing as a kind of fanaticism.

It doesn't matter to me what someone believes in, so displaying my belief on a banner isn't something I'm interested in. Double standards are usually a case of they're doing it, so why can't I? But I think when religious people do it it's bullshit. I don't want to get caught up in bullshit of my own. Lol, am I being too neutral?

See I don't have a problem when religious people do it, because I believe there should be a freedom of expression. I think when you say you're apathetic about it, you're missing the fact that other people aren't apathetic and hold importance in being able to express themselves. I don't think it's fair to suppress anyone as long as they aren't harming others (and of course people can debate about whether religeon/atheism harms people but eh XD).

[Badnik Zero]

Well I certainly wouldn't protest the banner, I just think putting it up is too close to what I don't like about religious messages I already see.

This reminds me of this elderly French couple I met once, who were explaining to me how one of them was an atheist and the other believed in god. It was a funny situation but they were like 70 years old. The way they saw it, it was a philosophical difference between them, but it came second to being you know, people.

I wonder why we can't be like that. But then Dio is probably right. I don't see much of the religion-atheism war people talk about. Maybe I'm removed from it.

[eXtaticus]

Before we bring up the tired old rhetoric that something offensive to someone automatically equals racism and sexism, lets take a second and think. Christianity is not the only religion in America. America does not have an official religion. Saying a racist or sexist remark is not the same as saying an anti-religious remark. They are not the same. This is someone's ideology versus who people inherently are.

When I said "Just like racist remarks", I meant:

"Just like how I wouldn't say that 'God doesn't exist' to a Christian, I wouldn't call a black person a 'nigger'"

I was just saying that the exact same rules that apply to religion also apply to things like race and sex - not that something offensive to someone automatically equals racism or sexism.

[halofumaster]

[i'm sorry for the post on this dead topic but I have something I think is important to say; so please forgive me <3]

I'll put this into simple terms cause these kind of explanations can go on for Infinity.

'SIMPLE' UNDERSTANDING TERMS OF THE BELIEF OR NON BELIEF OF GOD:

[note: I'm talking about the God believed to exist in Christianity. I wont go any further in this subject by the way/]

[note 2: I am Christian. I will not share my 'beliefs' here, just my pure understanding of terms of these types--my unbiased opinion]

Christianity is the belief of God--and many other things.

Atheism is the belief that there is no such thing as God/a god(s).

One believes God exists, the other doesn't.

The true root of the 'term' Christianity and Atheism is what a person 'believes'.

Beliefs don't change the flow of existence. [As we know of.. I wont go through the meaning of the universe so bear with me]

Faith is the basis of Christianity. 'Believing' in God even though people cant prove his existence and 'I believe' it is NOT POSSIBLE TO PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD.

And that is what makes Faith what it is.

Many Atheists AND Christians say either God isn't real OR God is real. Either person saying this--in the deepest possible understanding of English terms and even logic--IS NOT LOGICAL.

No one knows for sure if God exists.

That's why people use the terms Faith and beliefs, no one knows for sure but people believe what they want.

Its a easy thing to say 'God is real or isn't'. And I'm not gonna say if its right or not because I don't know.

Because if you look at it deeply you can see it two ways: [please don't flame me for this next post because I have found myself at a lack of better words to use--once again simple terms]

What perspective do 'you' look at this debate? SCIENCE or GOD/MORALS?

Science/Logic? says its not possible to prove Gods existence so in the view of Science God don't exist.

God/Morals say we don't have to prove we believe, Faith is what lets us know in our hearts that he exists.

CONCLUSION:

As far as I know.. NONE.

Its up to the people--its always up to the people.

What we believe as far as I know doesn't change existence.

And as far as what is right to say/believe, I say each to his own.

Cause once again.. there is no universal way to prove/say if God is real or not, or what is right or wrong. <3

[last note: for people extra interested.. check out the root meaning of Science.. I'm not gonna say anything else but it may OR may not enlighten you <3]

Edited January 22, 2011 by halofumaster

[TheDanimator]

Your friend simply should not been offended by this.

But its expected that she says something like.

"Why dont you think god exists?"

The problem with many religious people is that they are brainwashed into thinking that if

they are not sure about gods existence "even if they lean in favor of it" that they may go to hell.

So they say stuff constantly like

I KNOW THERE IS A GOD!

Even when they honestly dont.

[Ferno]

I'm all for beliefs and everyone's rightfully entitled to theirs, but I really have a feeling that this topic is gonna get pretty heated.

Some people believe in God, others don't. It's too bad that people have to make it such a touchy thing though. :I

[Badnik Zero]

I don't remember if it was mentioned here last time, but this topic reminds me of that Dane Cook joke where he tells the atheist god bless you. Fuck Dane Cook.

[SuperStingray]

I consider myself an atheist, but I don't like how most other atheist act high and mighty towards the religious, thinking they're superior for having a different belief system. I believe in empiricism, but if someone decides faith is more suited to their lifestyle, more power to them. I just don't like the religious people who have to justify their faith by trying to argue against established science. If you take God over science, fine, but unless you have a twenty billion dollar telescope and know how to use it, who are you to say those who DO are wrong?

[Axl.EXE]

I consider myself fairly religious. Yeah, I think that was offensive. BUT. Your friend definitely overreacted.

So there.

[Lightspines]

A year ago, I used to be an atheist. But then I started doing a lot of research about us being in the end times (from the book of revelation), and then discovering the governments depopulation plan, there's just no way it's all a coincidence.

I now call myself a Christian, even though I don't pray daily, etc.

[novelty]

As hypocritical as I am going to say this (and I feel you @The Stinking Color) is that religion is one of the most hypocritical ways to show your craziness without worrying about anyone calling you crazy. Its not "good" or "bad" or "right" or "wrong". Its just plain hypocritical. Even the nicest of the nicest religions (and I do mean nicest, like Jehovah's Witnesses), has a 'bad' element to it. The best part, in my honest opinion, is that no one religion leaves another alone. I mean all religion is hypocritical power and countless slander across all other religions. Religion is pretty much the only reason why I think a dystopian society would last longer than a theocracy or any other government/social environment just because there are too many differences between all of us.

[eXtaticus]

I read bits and snippets of the Bible, and decided to file my personal copy under the "Sci-Fi and Fantasy" shelf of my bookcase; it most certainly didn't pollute my brimming collection of non-fiction books - that much was certain from the start.

Of course, that's not to say that I didn't go into the whole subject of religion with an open mind; I was, after all, educated at a Christian Primary School, where we sung hymns every week in assembly (and where I learned the fabulous art of musical parody) and where "Religious Education" amounted only to simple Bible readings. Hell, there were even a few Islamic kids in some of the other classes, so it's not like Christianity was the only religion that I was exposed to, despite the fact that the headteacher went on to become a vicar.

I made my decision that I didn't believe in God when I began to mentally examine and analyse the true meaning, purpose, and content of religion; through this process, I deduced that it was but a simple behaviour control mechanism implemented by option-stuck rulers of old, as a low-budget way of promoting obedience without any form of physical intervention or force, (from the likes of armies and police) rather the threat of an easy-to-promise eternity of burning in hell, and the proverbial dangling carrot of a utopian heaven. The cake is a lie, so to speak, though equally, so is the Aperture Science Emergency Intelligence Incinerator.

Personally, I believe that one should be able to voice whatever opinions that one has about religion, so long as it's kept as inoffensive as possible to whoever is listening, and that "taking offence" doesn't involve double-standards or hypocrisy - that should, in fact, be a policy applied to most debates over matters that are deeply personal.

[Badnik Zero]

Huh, I don't really think religion was created as a means of control. It's clear we all need something to believe in. It probably came naturally.