Knuckles Show Opinions and Spoilers Discussion Thread

[Shiny Gems]

Anyway...

3 hours ago, Sonicka said:

Ok finished this thing. I’d say it’s a Solid 6 or 7/10 show.

I didn’t really feel like Knuckles wasn’t in this enough as some have pointed out (actually he was in it more than I expected TBH).

I could have sworn that I’d read these were 6 x 1 hour episodes as well - but for what this actually was (which was basically the goofier bits of the films x 30 mins x 6)… I’m glad it ended up being shorter. 

Not all of the absurd comedy “hit” and often this felt out of place because it was focused on providing cartoon humour in the real world over being a “quick gag” - so it sort of made this world just feel less real to me than it was portrayed in the movies. Additionally, I’m very surprised the short ET sequence got a pass - and I laughed at that but for the wrong reasons. 

However, I will say that the Wade & Knuckles combo worked surprisingly well and they gave me plenty of chuckles. The Rock Opera Knuckles backstory nonsense in episode 4 was also beautifully done - always a fan of stupid musical stuff like this - especially when you go in this hard creatively with reference material. I do fall into the camp of feeling like it was more focused on Wade’s bowling quest to impress/overcome his dad 60% of the time (and anything to do with Wade’s extended family was a slog to get through). It’s a shame there wasn’t more focus about Knuckles plight in finding his place on Earth, new family, learning where he came from, how he got his “power” & more insight into the Echidnas past etc etc… so that was a bummer. Having the Parachamac apparitions was cool (but again - they sort of portrayed him as a bit of a goof here).
 

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Also, as a Brit I am a little tired of the overused “because they’re English = evil/twat” trope alongside the affected posh accent, which in reality reflects 1-2% of the British population. But I appreciated that they did reference Wade’s dad affecting it on purpose.

What I really liked was that Knuckles really impressed in the fight sequences or whenever he was involved for screen time, he’s great and I do enjoy Idris’s performance as him. I also hope he keeps the Cowboy hat now - I’d love to see this item get more mainstay for a bit longer in one Sonic Universe at least.

But the way the show ended was… strange and abrupt. Even the mid sequence cap-off didn’t feel like an ending (I was expecting a reunion with Sonic & Tails and Co to full circle his adventure & appreciation and what he learnt on the journey.)

Instead - it’s him and Wade riding off into the sunset (bad CGI here - did they run out of budget?) and Knuckles proclaims that Scandel’s “The Warrior” is his jam? I’m sorry, but no. Just because the lyrics are slightly adjacent with him being “a Warrior” and a few of their antics does not a character theme make. It’s a tonally mismatched 80’s tune for the opening credits already (as lovingly animated as it is) and doesn’t fit the ending IMO. This is more wades jam - maybe that’s the point? I dunno. But I think Knuckles usual musical riff’s from the Sonic adventure games needed to be more in play here. 

Other than that, I am impressed that they managed to keep the continuity straight considering GUN was only “established in name” after Sonic 1 in this universe, so I’m intrigued by this secret black ops agency thread which will likely continue in Sonic 3 since Shadow was hidden away (and not to mention SA2’s storyline will be heavily used - implying they’ve known about creatures like Sonic way before his arrival). I also presume the bowling commentators saying that another Alien that crashed a bowling tournament in 1974 (50 years ago) is supposed to reference Shadow (or something else) as well?

Anyway, I feel like I’ve come down a bit too negatively here. I think this show was fine - certainly filler - but still good and I enjoyed it. It was wise that they dropped this all in one go though.

I hope that if they get to do another one of these in the future that they balance the comedy / drama vibes better - have more meaningful stakes - ensure your title hero gets a bit more spotlight etc… etc…

Sonic 2 almost hit the sweet spot for me in tone (and episodes 1 and 2 of Knuckles were great), so it’s certainly possible.

 

 

7/10 is what I'd actually give the Knuckles show as an overall score myself, or at most a 7.5/10, but nothing more than that, really.

[Minu Yang]

I don't know about you guys but...in my opinion...I saw all 6 episodes of the Knuckles Tv Series and I give it.......(you're probably going to hate me when I say this)10/10!!!  That miniseries rocks!!!  My favorite parts were, the rock opera sequence in episode 4, the secret agent dream sequence featuring Wade in episode 2 and episode 5 where Knuckles was in the hotel watching a movie!  Let me tell you, when Knuckles said, "Oooh!!", it turned me on!!  

[Shiny Gems]

9 minutes ago, Minu Yang said:

I don't know about you guys but...in my opinion...I saw all 6 episodes of the Knuckles Tv Series and I give it.......(you're probably going to hate me when I say this)10/10!!!  That miniseries rocks!!!  My favorite parts were, the rock opera sequence in episode 4, the secret agent dream sequence featuring Wade in episode 2 and episode 5 where Knuckles was in the hotel watching a movie!  Let me tell you, when Knuckles said, "Oooh!!", it turned me on!!  

That is very acceptable. I would have given it a 9/10 if I was a bit more generous and was not acknowledging the flaws. Still, despite the flaws of the show, I still loved it!

[Strickerx5]

Well, I just finished the Knuckles show and um... look, it's not the worst thing in the world but I wouldn't call it good either. Like, episodes 1 and 4 were pretty ok (and I'm still not sure if 3 was a fever dream or not) but the rest? Not great imo.

Knuckles isn't really absent like a lot of reviews made it sound like but he really does take a massive backseat to everything in the last few episodes (obviously due to budget). The story and characters are just... weird (the sister is actually psychotic). They use actual game content in the oddest and non-impactful ways yet from the movie-verse. The jokes miss far more than they land. And I'm just left overall asking, like I did back when this was first announced, why this was even a thing?

Ngl, sorta worried about the 3rd movie now.

Edited April 29 by Strickerx5

[juanpablomorales]

I just watched the whole Knuckles series (all 6 episodes). I gotta say that the Knuckles series is pretty good not gonna lie. I know some episodes mostly focused on Wade Whipple than Knuckles. I know some people said it's more like "Knuckles and Wade" show than just "Knuckles" show but that's fine. I get that. But due to my respect with SEGA and Paramount, like I said that the series "is pretty good". My rating for the show might have to be 8/10 because of everything that Paramount working on that show hard to make Sonic fans excited.

[Sega DogTagz]

I went in with gutterball low expectations. Focusing a serious around Wade seemed like a bad idea from the jump. 

 

I will say the writers did pretty well with that though. Wade was significantly less unbearable than he was in the movie, and a lot of the stuff focused around him just worked. His cringe failures and his personal struggles landed for me. In a lot of ways, it almost made his character endearing - which is a credit considering what I was expecting.

That being said that's all I can really say about this series. It was harmless, advances next to nothing and might lower the general viewers IQ about the movie-verse's lore more than it actually enhances it. Anyone who just watches this series would have a fairly twisted view of the conflict between the Owls an Echidna's. You'd somehow be more informed if you saw nothing at all.

 

Its silly. Good for a handful of laughs, but it really doesn't do anything to expand the lore (do we really need to know Wade's origin story?).

 

So I guess its a 6/10. Harmless, inoffensive. Not anything you have to see by any means.

On 4/27/2024 at 5:11 PM, Shiny Gems said:

Well, I just want to say...

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It was funny that there was an Ice Cap Resort in the show. First, Green Hills and now Ice Cap. What's next, Chemical Plant?

I do wonder if that was the Ice Cap from Sonic 3 and Knuckles or from Sonic Adventure 1? I'd say the latter because the Ice Cap area had a resort, and resorts were seen at the bottom of the hill in Sonic Adventure's Ice Cap.

 

Splash Hills Spring Water was the truck Knuckles obliterated during the car chase sequence in Movie 2.

 

Which reminds me of what was probably my favorite line in the series "Knuckles has left the Green Hill Zone" Put a smile on my face.

Edited April 29 by Sega DogTagz

[MetalSkulkBane]

It's funny how split opinions are between "really good" and "eeeeh" camps.

I wonder, did anyone liked the Bridezilla scene in Sonic 2 but disliked this show (or vice-versa)? Because the shows kinda feels like that subplot stretched into 6 episodes. Not thematically, but same general energy.

[Sonicka]

1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

It's funny how split opinions are between "really good" and "eeeeh" camps.

I wonder, did anyone liked the Bridezilla scene in Sonic 2 but disliked this show (or vice-versa)? Because the shows kinda feels like that subplot stretched into 6 episodes. Not thematically, but same general energy.

Yeah, this is sort of what I was alluding to earlier.

The wedding / bridezilla subplot in Sonic 2 was fine (and kinda funny) to me because it didn’t outstay its welcome, was a short break from the action, and helped with bridging particular characters and narratives without to much obstruction, it’s the C plot.

I wouldn’t want this sort of energy serving as the A plot all the way through a series though, and that’s what this show is. 

Sadly, I can picture them pitching a future Amy series with Rachel and her “husband” from GUN already

[JezMM]

I really enjoyed myself.  It was utterly dumb stuff but it's earnest about it, this is a comedy show first and foremost, and while there's a TON of jokes that make me cringe or feel forced, a surprising amount genuinely made me laugh for the reasons they were trying to make me laugh.  The human characters were a mixed bag - I did enjoy Wade's bounty hunting rival.  A little "'We have Jim CarreyRobotnik at home'; Robotnik at home:" with his mannerisms but he did a good job all the same.

I love how divisive the rock opera was.  Depending on whether you're open to the fact that the movieverse is what it is or not, it's either the worst part of the show or the best.  I was loving it.  Overall my only issue was that EVEN being generous towards the human/bowling plotline being the main thing of the show, it just got a bit too drawn-out towards the end.  Like, it's not just that Knuckles kept disappearing, it's that the scenes where he wasn't there were always about 30-60 seconds longer than they needed to be.  Pistol Pete's big intro for the finals felt like it went on for 5 minutes, etc etc.

But yeah, a good time overall.  I'd say a little better than the first movie but not by much.  Definitely not as good as the second movie.  The most surprising thing is that I didn't care even one tiny bit about Wade in the movies, now I think I like him more than Tom.  So good for them that they successfully endeared me to him!

But yeah.  Not even a "so bad it's good" type deal, it's just like... solidly mid.  I was entertained, good job to all involved.

Edited May 5 by JezMM

[SatAMhog]

I liked it.  Solid 7/10 for me.  I especially enjoyed the Wade/Knuckles dynamic.  To be honest, I wasn't sure how much I'd like Wade as a main character but he really came off as cool.  I hope he and Knux have more adventures down the line.

[Scritch the Cat]

On 4/28/2024 at 11:58 PM, MetalSkulkBane said:

It's funny how split opinions are between "really good" and "eeeeh" camps.

I wonder, did anyone liked the Bridezilla scene in Sonic 2 but disliked this show (or vice-versa)? Because the shows kinda feels like that subplot stretched into 6 episodes. Not thematically, but same general energy.

I was okay enough about the wedding scene because it was used to set up things important to Sonic lore.  In a really strange way, yes, but by now I've come to accept and even sometimes appreciate how the Sonic movie universe adds events and plot points to rush to having the stuff you'd actually want to see in a Sonic series.  With how much of what's happened in the games has amounted to deadweight, character derailment, and gratuitous lore dumps that get mostly ignored and thus trivialized in the very next game when they aren't being straight-up retconned, I actually can't say I resent them trimming it down and building things reminiscent of appealing game things but with a newer and simpler backstory, while also not building so many things at once as to feel like some things are undercooked.

The big difference with this show is that nothing that happens in it is done in service of such worldbuilding.  I also don't find most of what I've seen of the show funny, but how funny it is or isn't seems to be the biggest point of contention here, and when at all possible, I deal in cold-hard facts rather than subjective things.  So the cold hard facts are these: Knuckles barely has a story arc in this show, while Wade's story arc is basically impossible to become invested in and will likely have no effect on the subsequent media in this canon.  It's all based on a misguided desire to validate himself to an absentee father who everyone watching can see is an asshole not worth the effort, and even if it wasn't, it's just bowling.  While there were people who had a bad feeling about this series the moment the synopsis was revealed that it would be about Knuckles training Wade in the ways of the echidna warrior, even that is mostly a lie.  So in a way, it's almost more of an inversion of that wedding scene, in that in this series, Sonic stuff (and not much of it) is used as little more than an excuse to help things happen (often in very forced and unbelievable ways) that don't have much of anything to do with Sonic (or Knuckles), and don't have a very strong chance of lining up with the interests of Sonic fans.

Edited May 6 by Scritch the Cat

[LongcrierCat]

On 4/26/2024 at 2:52 PM, Lorekitten said:

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Something about having your entire race destroyed will inevitably bring up comparisons.

 

As a Cherokee Sonic fan, it always bothers me that the first go to for Knuckles being the last of his kind inevitably goes to the Jewish because of the Holocaust and that they usually never consider the very real Holocaust that happened in the United States centuries before.

This isn't a Tragedy Olympics thing as much as it is that there's more examples of someone being the last of their kind to pull from and that the two are linked for sure, but they can do this more tastefully.

I won't lie, I'm having a hard time figuring out who did it more tastelessly. Paramount or Ken Penders.

And like. Knuckles comes from Angel Island. You know, Angel Island in California? But that Knuckles's Angel Island is a Floating Island?

First Nations peoples and United Statesians always have conflicts over who has the rights to this historic land. How this never factors into Knuckles's story more often frankly bothers me.

https://angelisland.org/history/miwok-history/

Edited May 6 by LongcrierCat

[MetalSkulkBane]

It's possible they went with Jews because of *very heavy coughing* current political situation. I dare not to say a word more.

With that said, I don't see much connection between Knuckles story or any real life cultures. Knuckles is about loneliness, half self-imposed no less and how that affects him. Knuckles doesn't worry or care about his culture, whenever he can preserve it or if it will die with him.

And even if we take into consideration his race, it's the story how they brought genocide on themself. Do we really want to apply this to Jews? (...don't answer that) or anyone else.

Sure, Paramount version is a bit different, but ultimately war with Owls was not one-sided genocide, it was mutual destruction.

[LongcrierCat]

6 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

And even if we take into consideration his race, it's the story how they brought genocide on themself. Do we really want to apply this to Jews? (...don't answer that) or anyone else.

 

That's the really silly thing about it though.

By approaching this parallel they've done a disservice first and foremost to the Jewish and then a disservice to Knuckles and his story. It paints the Jewish in a really bad light that doesn't need to be there and it just makes the overall Knuckles show a worse time overall for anyone who's paying attention to the news lately.

Like needless to say, the Knuckles Clan history in most of the Sonic storylines parallels that of tribes fighting each other and their kids being left to pick up the pieces. It's a pretty good parallel to the very real and historical accounts of tribe fights and infighting and wasn't the worst at talking about it.

The Sonic Movies made this clear with quick second and you miss it references that they set this up in a First Nations sense with even Carreybotnik referring to the Native American Shadow Wolves when referring to his methods on how to track Sonic down. Longclaw herself is very much painted like she's a First Nations person herself and that her relationship to Sonic is as a tribe elder and child rather than a nuclear family's sense of how a family is portrayed as blood relatives.

I don't know how much of this context is going to be lost because I admit, I just think more people should just do more research on Indigenous Aboriginal Cultures more often. I just think this context is important to how the Sonic Movies approach these matters.

Knuckles even in Sonic Adventure is dealing with a culture shock. He's been alone without his tribe for most his whole life. While the rest of the Sonic gang save for Sticks are very up to date and hip with the current day scene of culture. His loneliness comes from being seperated from his tribe and having to find a new one and learning to get used to them.

He's still kind of painted with a very heavy brush of being an Aboriginal Person missing his people no matter the story save for Sonic Boom which while funny is also the most anachronistic take of his character in all of the Sonic Media and Sonic Prime's take on him is... baffling at times.

[Lorekitten]

12 hours ago, LongcrierCat said:

As a Cherokee Sonic fan, it always bothers me that the first go to for Knuckles being the last of his kind inevitably goes to the Jewish because of the Holocaust and that they usually never consider the very real Holocaust that happened in the United States centuries before.

This isn't a Tragedy Olympics thing as much as it is that there's more examples of someone being the last of their kind to pull from and that the two are linked for sure, but they can do this more tastefully.

I won't lie, I'm having a hard time figuring out who did it more tastelessly. Paramount or Ken Penders.

And like. Knuckles comes from Angel Island. You know, Angel Island in California? But that Knuckles's Angel Island is a Floating Island?

First Nations peoples and United Statesians always have conflicts over who has the rights to this historic land. How this never factors into Knuckles's story more often frankly bothers me.

https://angelisland.org/history/miwok-history/

IMO, people are more aware of the Holocaust than anything that happened in America because generally speaking, people don't like to talk about anything that puts 'their side' in a negative light.

[Scritch the Cat]

5 hours ago, Lorekitten said:

IMO, people are more aware of the Holocaust than anything that happened in America because generally speaking, people don't like to talk about anything that puts 'their side' in a negative light.

I think I have a win-win solution for all of this: Just don’t joke about genocide at all in a series aimed at children.  That seems pretty self-evident.

Granted, that you shouldn’t cut the titular animated character out of most of a series aimed at children ALSO seems self-evident, so don’t expect showrunners like these to have such understanding.

[Lorekitten]

5 minutes ago, Scritch the Cat said:

I think I have a win-win solution for all of this: Just don’t joke about genocide at all in a series aimed at children.  That seems pretty self-evident.

Granted, that you shouldn’t cut the titular animated character out of most of a series aimed at children ALSO seems self-evident, so don’t expect showrunners like these to have such understanding.

From my understanding of the scene, it wasn't a joke at all, just a comparison. That being said, I've only heard of this all secondhand and have no intention of ever actually watching the series, so I could be misinformed.

[Scritch the Cat]

51 minutes ago, Lorekitten said:

From my understanding of the scene, it wasn't a joke at all, just a comparison. That being said, I've only heard of this all secondhand and have no intention of ever actually watching the series, so I could be misinformed.

In a series this perpetually zany it seems hard not see everything as a joke, but whether it is a joke or not might be beside the point of it being in poor taste.
 

Personally, though, I have never liked it when media try to draw parallels between fictionalized nonhuman animals and real-life race issues among humans.  Even when they’re trying to be sincere like Zootopia, there’s always nuances that make the analogy backfire, sometimes horribly.

[Lorekitten]

3 minutes ago, Scritch the Cat said:

Personally, though, I have never liked it when media try to draw parallels between fictionalized nonhuman animals and real-life race issues among humans.  Even when they’re trying to be sincere like Zootopia, there’s always nuances that make the analogy backfire, sometimes horribly.

You're not wrong, and I've experienced this in media before. Personally, I don't think it's entirely impossible to depict prejudice between animal species in a way that's respectful of the real-world issue of discrimination, but if you try to paint any certain animal species as directly analogous to any one actual ethnic group, that's when things get problematic fast.

[Scritch the Cat]

Anyone else notice the last six responses are from users with cat-related names?