Sonic the Hedgehog IDW #65 - Reader Reaction & Review

[Iko]

6 hours ago, Kuzu said:

I honestly think you need some perspective; you're not the only person who's been clamoring for their favorite character to get the spotlight and its a bit presumptuous to think Cream is getting the shortened of the stick when, once again, Knuckles has been MIA for almost the entire run of the book.  To say nothing of the rest of the cast who sat out all of the 2022, who only recently came back after the Surge and Kit arcs.

You're right here, and honestly I'm also a bit annoyed by how nonexistent Knuckles has been in the comics so far... it seems like the writers listened too much to those complaints of a few years ago where the fans asked for knuckles to go back on Angel Island and guard the Master Emerald more. Like Kaotic Kanine said though, there's a lot of Knuckles content in other media and playable status in all the recently released games... a character like Cream instead has none of that, this comic is pretty much the only content where you can see her shine at the moment, beside some occasional Sonic Channel pictures.

Though it's not screentime what I and other fans of the character are asking for. Cream is appearing a lot in IDW... she had the Metal Virus, Chao Races, the annual stories (she appeared in 2 of them), the 900th special, the upcoming winter special (plus not IDW, but she was in many of the fast friends comics). Didn't she also play a role in the halloween special? I completely forgot that the thing even existed and I didn't read it yet, so I don't know.

The amount of content is fine if not even more than what I could hope for... the problem is that in most of those stories, Cream does not really contribute, never plays an active role and is never meaningful (pretty much said the same thing thrice with different words to highlight how useless she is). She's there to be "the cute one", and nothing more... in fact, the comic presents her as "the cutest thing alive", it really speaks itself about what's the use of Cream there.

-In Chao Races she did absolutely nothing besides organizing that chao army at the end... something that was done in a cheesy way and lasted for about a couple of panels; the story was more about Rouge babysitting her than Cream herself, and the race was done by Cheese alone.

-The annual came with the premise that Cream would meet Blaze again after a lot of time of being separated. the actual comic came with nothing of that... Cream just appeared in the last panel of the blaze story, and was just there for the sake of it. Then, there was that summer camp story, supposed to be all about Cream, but in fact it was just a generic kids' story where Cream once again didn't contribute much besides triggering a riot completely at random at the end... everything felt so poor, and left me with a void since I was really hoping for a wholesome story about the long time friends meeting each other after separation.

-The 900th special started good with the premise, but in the second half of Cream's part, she's been overshadowed by Blaze. "Thank you for saving us, Cream" "But I did nothing, you saved us, Blaze" "Never mind": ok I didn't copy the dialogue literally, but that was more or less the line... like uhm... "I'm useless" "I know!", that's how I read it. On top of that, Blaze and Cream are hanging out together, implying that the story that I really wanted to read in the annual, just happend "off screen", adding to the annoyance. (that comic was even worse with Knuckles though, to be fair).

So here come the concerns for the development of this new story. I for once would really like to have one story where Cream is actually useful and has some good moments or interesting interactions with the other characters, not ten stories where she's just a puppet being cute for the sake of it while the other characters do the rest. Nothing wrong with Cream being depicted as cute, but when that's all she has to offer, and only that, then you're doing the character wrong.

Besides, I've nothing against Knuckles having the bigger spotlight here, he deserves it and I'm also enjoying his story.

[Kuzu]

I said everything I had to say on this subject already. Tldr, and to be completely blunt and no disrespect intended, tough shit.

[MetalSkulkBane]

Iko, I got a question: What Cream used to do? What is the previous standard you wish her to achieve?

Because as far as I remember Sonic X 90% she was just there to be cute, in much less productive way. In fact most episodes focused on her were about her being a burden (she got kidnapped by Eggman and humans, she made hiding from Ella hard, Chaotix tried to snatch her). She helped a little in baseball game... by being "the cutest thing alive". All she did was Sonic Battle adaptation, so that's more of a outlier.

I mean sure, she was part of the fight in Heroes, but so was everyone. I guess what we need is next big hero gathering story.

And if you long for Archie days, Team Tango and Pirate Plunder, well I said it before, we need that 2nd book to squeezed everyone.

[Red Hot Jack]

Later in Archie, she also was used worse than now in IDW, just as a side helper of the Freedom Fighters in the reboot, she got less spotlight than Big iirc. But yes, the arcs you mentioned are my favorite for Cream in Archie.

[Maple Syrup]

This issue was good in my opinion. I really loved the first part with Knuckles, the Chaotix and the Babylon Rogues. It was hilarious! The dinner setup was overly relatable. More specifically, Chocola was relatable. The part with Gemerl petting Cream melted my heart! It's nice that the bunnies are back but I was REALLY expecting Cream to kick butt instead of starting a fire. I am just happy Cream and Knuckles are back. I hope I get to see them in action in the next issue!

 

[Iko]

1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Iko, I got a question: What Cream used to do? What is the previous standard you wish her to achieve?

I've never read Archie Sonic so I don't really know how she was handled there. I didn't particularily like her in Sonic X in fact, and I didn't like much Sonic X in general. Cream has never been consistent in writing, so I'm not sure about a "previous standard", though there were moments in the series when she was written in a way that I felt was "right" for her.

-The version of Cream that I liked is the one who can stand a chance against Eggman's badniks and is strong willed enough to risk her life in order to save her mother when she was kidnapped. In Advance 2, nobody pushed her back saying that it's too dangerous or to leave Sonic do his stuff while she's safe or something.

-I liked when she saw some good in Blaze and befriended her despite of how scary she looked at firs... then helped her to changed and turn into a better person; she followed her in the most dangerous places and never gave up (maybe Amy can do this too).

-The version of Cream who can't stand to bad behaviors and unfairness, and despite how dangerous the situation is, still feels the need to do something in order to help other people and stop the injustice, at the cost of risking her life and to the point of breaking the rules and doing something that she is not supposed to do (like in the Metal Virus arc, near the end, when she decided to go with Gemerl in the portal despite everyone told her to stay safe)

-Cream used to be more mature despite her age, by being able to take care of herself and go outside all alone without need of some other character (or Vanilla) babysitting her all the time (this is how she met Blaze and how she got lost in Cyber Track in Advance 3); she also used to be kinda serious and dedicated in what she did.

-She also has been able to fight on her own without always relying on Cheese... if gameplay is something to take into account (roll, spindash and kicks): Sonic Battle already relies too much on Cheese for her moveset. She had some animations both in Sonic Advance 2 and Sonic Riders where she does ballet movements, I think that was a nice idea, to base her moveset around dance and especially take advantage of it for gameplay. I wouldn't mind if this became a trait of her personality too, being into ballet and stuff: it would open for some creative use of her skills and especially could bring some nice interactions with Blaze, who also fights by elegantly dancing around.

-She used to be into taking care of chao, and other creatures (for example, in the Sonic Channel anniversary comic she's taking care of flowers), so I expect her to be the type of character who takes care of little animals and such. I know that Amy also does it, but that's IMO a thing that better fits Cream.

-She also used to get emotional over little things, easily cry and such... this is not to be confused with being weak, it's just her being very emotional... something that in IDW was only shown in the Metal Virus arc and nowhere else. This trait is what makes her unique compared to Amy, since Amy is usually optimistic and can repress the sad feelings in order to cheer the other people.

-Cuteness should just be a side effect of her appearance and behaviors, not something that's forced to the player/reader for the sake of ostentating it. Taking care of appearance and making sure to look cute is more of an Amy thing, at least, the old version of Amy, I'm not sure about current Amy. Cream used to be pretty normal, and never try to forcefully appear cute. Even her animations in the Advance games were about playing with Cheese, having fun and all (they were extremely cute though, but, I don't know how to say it, they were "indirectly" cute), it was Amy who adjusted her quills and stuff. That baseball episode from Sonic X is the exact example of wrong use of Cream. To be fair, IDW didn't obstentate her cuteness too much aside of labeling her "the cutest thing alive"; the problem is that she doesn't show many other traits beside being "the cute kid", so there's nothing else to see. The Metal Virus arc is an exception to this, since that story featured many different sides of her personality, including dark and serious moods.

-I liked when she didn't have a pacifism complex. I didn't like her obsession for pacifism in Sonic Battle and while I like the idea of her being a pacifist, I think this trait shouldn't take over her actions too much.

On a side note, there's a new trait of her that was introduced in IDW and the Sonic Channel calendar story: she wants to be a hero like Sonic. This wasn't part of her character in the 2000s, but I like the idea, it gives her a motivation for getting involved more... the problem is that so far it brought her nowhere. Another trait introduced in Sega Heroes (a discontinued mobile game), is that apparently she is super brave and nothing can scare her... I'm not sure how I feel about this one, I don't like this trait too much, but I wouldn't mind her being a little bit more brave than average.

---

I think that the traits that I listed are rarely taken into account in IDW Cream. Exceptions are indeed the Metal Virus arc, and the very beginning of her part of the story in the 900th special. In every other story, you can just remove her or replace her with someone else and nothing would change; yes, even in Chao Races. The idea of wanting to be a hero in that Hero Camp story was executed in the cheapest way possible and didn't bring anything substantial, the Sonic Channel story about Music Plant executed the idea much better, even though implicitly (if I remember, she just wanted to have an adventure with Sonic, but turned out that she saved everyone from a giant egg-robo exploding or something, and indeed without noticing she became a hero).

[Maple Syrup]

On 10/17/2023 at 1:26 AM, Iko said:

I rarely follow the comics, they're not really my cup of tea... though they come out so slowly that I often manage to stay up to date with the releases regardless, maybe a couple of months later at worst.

I've read this new issue, and I think it was ok, nothing really to comment on it, aside of maybe that Gemerl scene where he pats Cream's head, it made me laugh a bit.

The only thing I want to comment is not from this issue, it's from a concern for the next one(s). Cream finally appeared again with a bigger role... and...? Is she going to be useless and passive once again like in the Chao Races story? When Rough and Tumble sneaked into Cream's house by saying "we're lucky, finally nobody's home", I thought they were building the setting for a gag where the two thieves would find angry Cream and Gemerl who would kick their butts out the home. Instead, it seems that they successfully entered the house, resisted to Gemerl's attack and... are they really going to kidnap Cream, serious? Two of the weakest villains in the comic, and one of the most OP robots in the series couldn't stop them, plus Cream can't defend herself once again, while she should be able to (I don't know what will happen, but it seems from the cliffhanger that Cream is took off guard and unable to react, especially since the house is burning).

---

Long story short, I fear that they're still treating Cream as the helpless civilian they recently (de-)developed her into, instead of the hero on par with the other friends of Sonic that she was in the past (at least in the games).

---

I couldn't care less if it was just the comics, though I'm annoyed because it seems that this is Cream's new role in the new general status quo of the series too, including games, and this is the reason of why she never appears and is never playable even when she does appear. Wouldn't it be better if they just got rid of this idea and turned her back into the character she was in origin, having adventures with Sonic and being capable of fighting just like most other characters? Especially when Charmy (other character as young as her) is shown invading Eggman's base, smashing badniks and having a lot of fun in the process.

A little spoiler of late game content of Sonic Superstars (story, about Trip's role):

  Hide contents

In the meanwhile, I feel like Trip is there to take Cream's place, being the "moe" girl, 5th member of the cast, in the new game. Cream couldn't appear in Superstars because of those stupid reasons (too weak, civilian, too dangerous, not classic, too pacifist, etc) that Sega could just ignore or rewrite if they just wanted.

I honestly like Cream more, and wish they would just change the things up for her and turn her more competent again. First Marine, then Sticks, now Trip... I just want them to improve Cream instead of making new characters to fill her place every time.

 

I agree with you! Cream isn't just a full time pacifist. She knows when she has to strike like a more mature kid! In fact, she is more mature than I ever was! She isn't just any "civilian". The thing is that they were able to bring Shadow the Hedgehog back because of his fans, why not Cream? I love all the potential 5th members like Sticks, Trip, and Marine, but the fact that SEGA did not confirm any infuriates me. Poor Cream should deserve much more than this. 

[Maple Syrup]

17 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

I acknowledged both of those lol And I do appreciate the 900th adventure special for trying to have Cream contribute. Though I do feel that Cream needing Blaze's assistance in flying them to the portal seriously undermined said contribution; Cream's able to lift Amy and Big, who alone weighs 616 pounds, into the air no problem but struggles with Blaze and Sonic? But regardless, in the actual main comic, Cream was just gone. We had Amy go on a camping trip and not even bother inviting her best friend, and pretty much every other character except for Knuckles, Blaze, Shadow, and Big had been enjoying regular appearances. But of course, Urban Warfare and this current arc have given Blaze, Shadow, and Knuckles excellent spotlight to compensate for those lengthy absences. And I'm rather miffed that Cream's own spotlight after her absence is very dim by comparison. Like, so dim that Cream may as well be performing on stage in complete darkness.

I very much understand that. The game cast alone is really big, and the comic having its own cast of heroes really compounds this issue. All the same, though, is it too much to ask that the writers try juggling the cast a bit better? I know I'm no longer alone in feeling that the comic exclusive heroes are overused. And maybe we could lighten up on the "Sonic and Tails" stories? I can't be the only one wanting for Tails to be paired up with literally any other character than just Sonic. Or if we gotta keep giving the comic exclusive characters their spotlight, maybe have them pair up with the game cast instead of each other. Metal Virus had Cream share an emotional moment with Whisper, why not give those two an adventure together to further explore their dynamic?

And I'll admit that Knuckles' presence in IDW has been very lacking, and he's due some serious page time to compensate. But at the very least, you can count on Knuckles to have a major presence in the games and other media. Just saying, you starved for Knuckles content? You got Sonic Frontiers, which had an animated short focused on Knuckles and made him playable around a month ago. The Sonic 2 movie, which has Knuckles as a main character (and a TV show about Knuckles is due to come out). Sonic Prime has variants of Knuckles in fairly major roles. And Sonic Superstars just came out with Knuckles playable from the get-go. Meanwhile, I can't even trust a racing spin-off to acknowledge Cream's existence, nor a visual novel taking place on the birthday of Amy Rose (y'know, Cream's BFF) to include her. IDW is pretty much the only thing willing to utilize Cream at all, and yet Metal Virus was the only story that tried anything meaningful with her.

I also noticed that too! Sonic and Blaze are probably less than big alone. Also, in the camping trip, the only people she took were the original characters made by IDW. I don't know why SEGA and IDW are so hesitant towards her.

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

Cream fan who's not a fan of her in X, Archie, Battle or IDW. Fascinating. That's like...80% of her existence? I guess Shadow fans hate 90% of his last decade, so it's not a contradiction.

I'm just trying to figure out what made you her devoted fan in the first place. I cautiously guess those were Advance games?

5 minutes ago, Maple Syrup said:

Also, in the camping trip, the only people she took were the original characters made by IDW. I don't know why SEGA and IDW are so hesitant towards her. 

Amy took people who were in bad mental space.

Tangle lost Whisper
Jewel was struggling with leading
Belle... everything

This was a therapeutic experience for them and Amy was a doctor. That's what the story was about. Could she take Cream for help? Sure. But every story has a limited number of pages and Even didn't need Cream in any way.

Would you prefer if she was awkwardly shoved in just for the sake of it? Because I love Shadow, but I think Chao Racing would work better without him. He created an unnecessary 3rd sub-plot, smothering other characters and robbing them of the chance to shine in their own story.

[Kaotic Kanine]

3 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Iko, I got a question: What Cream used to do? What is the previous standard you wish her to achieve?

--------------------------

I'm just trying to figure out what made you her devoted fan in the first place. I cautiously guess those were Advance games?

I can't speak for Iko, but I will say that the Advance games were peak for Cream. Advance 2 in particular was such a great debut for Cream; sure, she started off as a damsel in distress who had to be rescued by Sonic, but right afterwards Cream went on her own adventure to rescue Vanilla with only Cheese assisting her. And despite that being her first ever adventure, and being at such a young age, Cream took to the field gracefully: being able to spin dash from the get-go (compared with Amy in the previous game, who was unable to spin dash), practically dancing on the grind rails, attacking badniks and Eggman's mechs with ease via Cheese and her own attacks, flying a good distance with her ears, and ultimately saving Vanilla in the end. Advance 2's minimal story didn't allow us to see more of Cream's character, but she sure as hell shined in that cutscene and her entire campaign as a badass little girl despite her cutesy personality. And while their similarly minimal stories and greater amount of characters didn't allow much more demonstrations of Cream's character, Advance 3 and Heroes still had Cream be a capable adventurer who could run, jump, and attack just as well as the other heroes and provide crucial help to them.

Despite having been made to be "cute appeal", Cream was nonetheless a badass character who could hold her own in adventures and fights. That is what Cream was, and who she should continue to be. And it's why I am particularly vocal about the way Cream had been written in Archie and now IDW, because the way Cream is treated in both books is pathetic in light of how she started in the games. Cream used to venture off without any supervision, fight her own fights with only Cheese's help, and accompany the heroes in saving the world without question. In Archie and IDW though, Cream can't even step outside without Sally or Gemerl accompanying her. Cream gets outright declined by other characters from taking part in fights, and the very few times she does Cream and Cheese are shown to be mostly ineffectual. And Cream is regarded as a helpless civilian whom Sonic and others have to be arm-twisted just to let her be involved in anything remotely dangerous. Like, what the actual fuck?!

3 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Amy took people who were in bad mental space.

Tangle lost Whisper
Jewel was struggling with leading
Belle... everything

This was a therapeutic experience for them and Amy was a doctor. That's what the story was about. Could she take Cream for help? Sure. But every story has a limited number of pages and Even didn't need Cream in any way.

Would you prefer if she was awkwardly shoved in just for the sake of it? Because I love Shadow, but I think Chao Racing would work better without him. He created an unnecessary 3rd sub-plot, smothering other characters and robbing them of the chance to shine in their own story.

Okay, fair enough there. I definitely missed that detail about the camping trip. I thought it was just Amy going on a "girls vacation" for fun and nothing more. Being a therapy trip for those three explains a lot.

And no, I would not want Cream to be inserted into a story for the sake of it. Just as I wish Shadow wasn't included in Chao Races at all because of how much his presence fucked up the story (well, Starline and Belle fucked it up way more, but still). I just really want Cream to be partnered up with Amy in more stories; Cream was created at least partially to be Amy's "sidekick", the two were established as close friends, and narrative-wise the two benefit each other's characters. If Amy goes on another camping trip or whatever, Cream should go. We've gotten a million "Sonic and Tails" stories, why can't we have a few for their female counterparts?

[MetalSkulkBane]

My "Trial by Fire" explanation highlights what I said a few times by now: trust Ian and Evan, who both listen to fans and care for those characters, that they have reasons to use them in a specific amount.

We all know Knuckles is in the top 3 for Flynn, he made it clear several times. And yet he doesn't use him often in IDW.

Maybe Tails didn't need to be in a "Zeti Hunt". Upcoming Surge & Kit stories gave him plenty of screentime, Flynn could twist it so somehow Knuckles is there instead. But maybe he had a perfect script for Tails. Or maybe he thought Tails needed redemption/revenge on Zeti after Lost World. And if higher force forced his hand to use Knuckles instead... well,  that's what Sonic fandom calls "mandates".

Trust that writers aren't arbitrary with their choices. Sega mandates, editor order, story structure, future plans, etc. There is SOME kind of reason character X is used less when Y is more.

[Scape]

1 hour ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

I can't speak for Iko, but I will say that the Advance games were peak for Cream. Advance 2 in particular was such a great debut for Cream; sure, she started off as a damsel in distress who had to be rescued by Sonic, but right afterwards Cream went on her own adventure to rescue Vanilla with only Cheese assisting her. And despite that being her first ever adventure, and being at such a young age, Cream took to the field gracefully: being able to spin dash from the get-go (compared with Amy in the previous game, who was unable to spin dash), practically dancing on the grind rails, attacking badniks and Eggman's mechs with ease via Cheese and her own attacks, flying a good distance with her ears, and ultimately saving Vanilla in the end. Advance 2's minimal story didn't allow us to see more of Cream's character, but she sure as hell shined in that cutscene and her entire campaign as a badass little girl despite her cutesy personality. And while their similarly minimal stories and greater amount of characters didn't allow much more demonstrations of Cream's character, Advance 3 and Heroes still had Cream be a capable adventurer who could run, jump, and attack just as well as the other heroes and provide crucial help to them.

Despite having been made to be "cute appeal", Cream was nonetheless a badass character who could hold her own in adventures and fights. That is what Cream was, and who she should continue to be. And it's why I am particularly vocal about the way Cream had been written in Archie and now IDW, because the way Cream is treated in both books is pathetic in light of how she started in the games. Cream used to venture off without any supervision, fight her own fights with only Cheese's help, and accompany the heroes in saving the world without question. In Archie and IDW though, Cream can't even step outside without Sally or Gemerl accompanying her. Cream gets outright declined by other characters from taking part in fights, and the very few times she does Cream and Cheese are shown to be mostly ineffectual. And Cream is regarded as a helpless civilian whom Sonic and others have to be arm-twisted just to let her be involved in anything remotely dangerous. Like, what the actual fuck?!

Okay, fair enough there. I definitely missed that detail about the camping trip. I thought it was just Amy going on a "girls vacation" for fun and nothing more. Being a therapy trip for those three explains a lot.

And no, I would not want Cream to be inserted into a story for the sake of it. Just as I wish Shadow wasn't included in Chao Races at all because of how much his presence fucked up the story (well, Starline and Belle fucked it up way more, but still). I just really want Cream to be partnered up with Amy in more stories; Cream was created at least partially to be Amy's "sidekick", the two were established as close friends, and narrative-wise the two benefit each other's characters. If Amy goes on another camping trip or whatever, Cream should go. We've gotten a million "Sonic and Tails" stories, why can't we have a few for their female counterparts?

How is cream not redundant when amy is actually written well and isn't given garbage gameplay?

[Iko]

5 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Cream fan who's not a fan of her in X, Archie, Battle or IDW. Fascinating. That's like...80% of her existence? I guess Shadow fans hate 90% of his last decade, so it's not a contradiction.

5 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I cautiously guess those were Advance games?

Pretty much. I love Advance 2, it's still one of my top favorite Sonic games, and it was Cream's debut; I became fond of the character because I loved that game that was about her. I would say that it's mostly just that single game the reason of why I like this character so much.

Given that I'm also a fan of Fang since when he was still forgotten, and he didn't appear in anything for decades besides a gamegear platformer and a couple of obscure spin-offs, I don't think that the amount of screentime really matters... when a character is good in one game, that's enough to make me like them. I think that Cream can be very good when done right, both gameplay-wise (she doens't necessarily have to be a Tails clone) and story-wise; sadly she's rarely done right, and rarely playable too.

31 minutes ago, Scape said:

How is cream not redundant when amy is actually written well and isn't given garbage gameplay?

When written well, Cream is definitely not like Amy, and gameplay-wise the two have little to nothing in common.

[MetalSkulkBane]

18 minutes ago, Scape said:

How is cream not redundant when amy is actually written well and isn't given garbage gameplay?

Funny, there was a time when Amy was badly written and Cream was considered better, like Rush, Heroes and Battle. I guess it was Amy who was redundant and worthless back then, yes? Oh dang, we accidentally made her better, that was a stupid mistake (Well, some will argue this statement . But you get the picture).

And again, when Cream had "garbage gameplay"? Because as far as I remember only one of them was the worst playable character in 06, which is quite an achievement. And even SA1 gameplay wasn't that popular.

 

Amy used to be "the emphatic heat" of Sonic Cast during SA1-2, with some childish tendencies (Twinkle Park).
When Cream joined in this immaturity was cranked up (Heroes) to contrast with Cream's surprising competency for a 6-year-old. Honestly, it had the potential to be interesting, shame it was never fully explored.
Since then Amy has grown up and matured (for better or worse, larger topic), but that doesn't she can outshine Cream in every field. The obvious one is general adorableness (Gemerl couldn't go "You. Hurt. Amy" with the same conviction) but also Cream's young age means she's still in a position to learn from other characters, when Amy is "fully matured" by now. Besides, Eggman/Willy team-up proves that a duo of similar personalities can help "boosting each other" so to speak.

@Kaotic Kanine@Ikoso what I'm hearing is you wish Cream was a game-breaking badass the gameplay implied her to be.

I'm just saying, you can win Street Fighter using Dan with cutscenes and everything. Bowser can lose to two unnamed Toads. Gameplay can't always represent lore reality (I still don't understand how Chao can damage anything.)

So I'm curious: what level of strength/feats you would expect from a six-year-old girl and her water baby? Are we talking Amy in Sonic X, Rouge the Bat, Shadow the Hedgehog? Able to take down a badnik, dozen, Eggman in a large mech, Metal Sonic?

PS. Mods, seriously, should this be carved into a new topic? This has nothing to do with #65 by now.

[Sega DogTagz]

6 hours ago, Iko said:

-I liked when she saw some good in Blaze and befriended her despite of how scary she looked at firs... then helped her to changed and turn into a better person; she followed her in the most dangerous places and never gave up (maybe Amy can do this too).

In the same breath, I could easily point out that Cream actually did nothing productive over the course of that game. She did nothing but nag, and try to point Blaze in Sonic's direction and even got herself kidnapped and had to be rescued at the end.

 

At least Marine got a lick in on the final boss. Cream does jack squat. Kinda surprised that's not in your negative column.

[Kaotic Kanine]

28 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

So I'm curious: what level of strength/feats you would expect from a six-year-old girl and her water baby? Are we talking Amy in Sonic X, Rouge the Bat, Shadow the Hedgehog? Able to take down a badnik, dozen, Eggman in a large mech, Metal Sonic?

PS. Mods, seriously, should this be carved into a new topic? This has nothing to do with #65 by now.

I'll answer that after seeing if this topic gets made into it's own thread. As you point out, this has nothing to do with Issue #65 by now, and I don't wish to derail any further.

So... Knuckles and Chaotix's story is fine. It's good to see Knuckles teaming up with the Chaotix again, as well as the Babylon Rogues returning and written more competently. Eggman's appearance was also a pleasant surprise. Though the "clue-searching" aspect, the whole reason the Chaotix are even involved in the first place, is painfully rushed. Like, Knuckles could've done this on his own, being a treasure hunter and all. And also, as some folks on Tumblr pointed out, kind of weird that Knuckles refused Amy's assistance out of pride, but has no problem at all with seeking help from the Chaotix. Like, wut? Regardless, looking forward to seeing how the next part of this story goes.

Cream's story... Like I said, it's a "nothing" story. Cream and Vanilla are making dinner for the Chaotix, Vanilla leaves to get butter, Rough and Tumble intrude to steal shit, and they cause Cream to set her stove aflame. What's there to be engaged with? What interesting event or development will occur to make this story worth telling? Will this story keep fans invested in Cream or otherwise compelled with her character, or will this just make them lose all interest in her? Seeing how this story is almost completely ignored by folks, it's looking to be "No" all across the board. We don't even get any rarely seen interactions between Cream and some other character like the previous issues (Amy and Knuckles, Sonic and Blaze, Silver and Blaze): it's just Cream and Gemerl for the fourth or fifth time in a row. I wanted Gemerl back like most others did, but if he's going to be the only one Cream's allowed to talk to now, I'm wishing she and Vanilla left him on that beach. Dead. I'm tired of that robot, I'm sorry. And as some folks on Tumblr also pointed, having Cream start a grease fire in her kitchen really makes Sonic's words about Cream back in Issue #18 ring hollow. 

Spoiler

Yeah, fuck this story. I have no faith that the next part will remotely make this story worth making in the first place. I'd have rather Cream be absent for a while longer than be utilized in this nothing way.

The artwork is cute, though. I'll give the story that. Seeing Vanilla be a Disney princess was unexpected but very amusing.

[Iko]

1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

so what I'm hearing is you wish Cream was a game-breaking badass the gameplay implied her to be.

Speaking for myself, not at all. Charmy is a 6 year old kid and he's capable of fighting badniks, given that Cream canonically went through those adventures like the Advance games, Heroes and Battle, and canonically fought other characters, she would at least be on par with Charmy in terms of strenght... and Charmy was there fighting the illusion army in Sonic Forces.

Besides, the characters don't have ages anymore, they have likely been retconned, so at the moment Cream is a kid of unspecified age.

1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I'm just saying, you can win Street Fighter using Dan with cutscenes and everything. Bowser can lose to two unnamed Toads. Gameplay can't always represent lore reality (I still don't understand how Chao can damage anything.)

Those adventures of Cream happend canonically, it's a different thing than fighting Bowser as a Toad. She canonically invaded Eggman's bases a few times already and survived. Gameplay-wise, I don't know about chao either, in fact I'm suggesting since years that Cheese shoud not be used as a weapon and his attacks should just stun the badniks (and eventually remove barriers) instead of damaging them. Besides, here's my take on Cream's moveset (it's confusing and probably could have been better, sorry for that) (this comes from my showcase thread and it's not the first time I post it in similar discussions):

As you see, I made a whole new gimmick for Cheese, based on animal powers. There are many creative ideas that you can think of, if you think outside the box (the box being Tails clone + ultimate cheese form), probably there are dozens of possible takes different than this one.

58 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

In the same breath, I could easily point out that Cream actually did nothing productive over the course of that game. She did nothing but nag, and try to point Blaze in Sonic's direction and even got herself kidnapped and had to be rescued at the end.

 

At least Marine got a lick in on the final boss. Cream does jack squat. Kinda surprised that's not in your negative column.

The story of the game was good, her role was fine, and it's not true that she did nothing productive... she helped Blaze to open herself up, made a bond with her, served as a guide for Sonic's dimension and introduced her to the major friends of Sonic, while teaching her that it's not bad to trust other people sometimes. She was great in that game, actually, even thought she wasn't playable.

1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

PS. Mods, seriously, should this be carved into a new topic? This has nothing to do with #65 by now.

I agree that this is off-topic, I wouldn't continue the discussion if I wasn't asked questions directly anyway there have been a few topics about Cream in the past already, and more or less it's the same discussions over and over, this is why I don't think a new thread would be a good idea. Maybe we should just stop...?

[MetalSkulkBane]

10 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

kind of weird that Knuckles refused Amy's assistance out of pride, but has no problem at all with seeking help from the Chaotix. Like, wut?

Eh, it makes sense to me.
1) She worked hard (kinda) to get it for him, he's embarrassed to admit to her he let her hard work go to waste. Obviously she wouldn't mind at all, but Knuckles is self conscious like that.
2) Chaotix are detectives he's (kinda) hiring. It's like showing infection to a doctor, less embarrassing.

Also Knuckles isn't treasure hunting, he's hunting people (who took treasure), so it makes sense this is job for Holmes, not Indiana Jones so to speak.

 

Ok Iko, let's assume Cream is on same level as Charmy.
Notice that Charmy NEVER fought alone. Taking comics into considerations, Charmy officially a broke badnik or two. Anything larger was a group effort. That fight in Forces is the closest thing. I admit there is no reason Cream was excluded. I guess Chaotix are much more of a unit, so adding Vector and Espio, meant Charmy was necessary as well. Honestly I wouldn't loose that much sleep over it.
So on that front Cream is already ahead, albeit slightly. Yes canonically she adventured in Advance 2-3, but we don't know how much she accomplished on her own. Maybe Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy were helping her whole way. Same goes for Heroes or Chronicles. In Battle her only serious fight without Emerl is when she attacks (not defeats) Chaos Gamma so they can escape. Archie puts her in same boat (defeating Emerl in X is real outlier for her).

And interesting gameplay, if that complicated. One thing I wonder is whenever "6 year can fight" old is that much of a improvement over "tiny chao can fight", but like you said, If Charmy can, I guess she should as well.