Megathread MT | Sonic the Hedgehog 2 Movie - General Discussion

[PeterPancake]

Another reason why I'm not excited by Shadow is that I want to see more of Sonic's world, especially in the third film. I'd love for most of that film to be set on little planet, with occasional planet hopping. 

That just ain't happening with Shadow. You're doubling down on the Earth focus, and it feels at odds with the story threads set up by the first film. 

1 hour ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Even then, Metal is a silent antagonist, and if they change that they have little to work with.

You can absolutely write a compelling character for someone who doesn't talk, and plenty of adaptations of the franchise (OVA, Fleet way, Archie etc) have fleshed out Metal Sonic. There's A LOT you can do with the character. Thematically speaking, Metal makes more sense than Shadow as the ultimate crescendo to Robotnik's obsession with Sonic, and their rivalry. Shadow just feels wholly disconnected from all of that  

[CertifiedNobody]

1 hour ago, PeterPancake said:

Another reason why I'm not excited by Shadow is that I want to see more of Sonic's world, especially in the third film. I'd love for most of that film to be set on little planet, with occasional planet hopping. 

Sorry, but that was never going to happen. The budget needed to put more than a scene or two on Sonic's world is too much for them, even with Paramount's increased confidence.

1 hour ago, PeterPancake said:

You can absolutely write a compelling character for someone who doesn't talk, and plenty of adaptations of the franchise (OVA, Fleet way, Archie etc) have fleshed out Metal Sonic. There's A LOT you can do with the character. Thematically speaking, Metal makes more sense than Shadow as the ultimate crescendo to Robotnik's obsession with Sonic, and their rivalry. Shadow just feels wholly disconnected from all of that

Can you make them the ultimate villain in a trilogy though? And is Metal really that impressive compared to the Death Egg Robot or the Prototype Ship from the first movie? Shadow offers a story where Sonic and Eggman are forced to band together in an alliance against a threat eclipsing everything that's come before.

[Badnik Mechanic]

6 hours ago, CertifiedNobody said:

 It's also about scaling up the threats over Metal Sonic after Knuckles and the Death Egg Robot would be like doing Ultron after Thanos.

You know people do have minds?

I can watch a film and still accept the narrative and the 'threat' if its contextualised to the fantasy you create and rules make sense to the situation the film sets up.

 

[Red Hot Jack]

I want to see Metal more personally, at this point, since Shadow's story is mature and sometimes controversial, I'd rather have Metal Sonic but since this is a live-action film we are talking about, set on Earth, it just screams Shadow, even with tweaks to the plot.

[fia]

I'm down for either Metal or Shadow but Shadow definitely seems more likely since as stated before, the movies already primarily take place on Earth with humans. I could even see them doing what they're doing for the sequel with 2/3 with SA1/SA2 and combining parts of both.

 

(Ideally I'd love to see a third movie do exactly that and a final movie adapting Unleashed. Slim chances but hey, unless the third movie ends up being a total bomb, anything can happen . Maybe 20 years from now we'll be getting a Generations adaption but for the movieverse)

[KnuxDLX]

I like Shadow, but wouldn’t he be best left for another trilogy? There was a whole 10 years of Sonic characters before Shadow was introduced. I think Sonic’s “ultimate” rival would be a good draw for a fourth film, the first in a new series, with Shadow’s redemption arc playing out over the next one-and-a-half films before an epic conclusion where he finally joins the good guys for good before the final battle.

 

I mean with Shadow has to come Rouge and Omega, right? That trio is legendary.

[CertifiedNobody]

4 hours ago, Badnik Mechanic said:

You know people do have minds?

I can watch a film and still accept the narrative and the 'threat' if its contextualised to the fantasy you create and rules make sense to the situation the film sets up.

 

And Metal Sonic is harder to set up as the threat of an entire movie, and adds little to the story or worldbuilding because by now we've already seen villains that match Sonic in speed and power. If they want to do Neo metal Sonic, they need to establish him as a secondary threat in Sonic 2.

3 hours ago, silverthepsychic said:

I could even see them doing what they're doing for the sequel with 2/3 with SA1/SA2 and combining parts of both.

I doubt that'll happen because unlike Sonic 2 and 3, the Adventure games would probably need to have the story trimmed for a movie rather than expanded.

3 hours ago, silverthepsychic said:

(Ideally I'd love to see a third movie do exactly that and a final movie adapting Unleashed. Slim chances but hey, unless the third movie ends up being a total bomb, anything can happen . Maybe 20 years from now we'll be getting a Generations adaption but for the movieverse)

It'd be interesting to see them add the game cast into Unleashed. I wouldn't be surprised if they cut the Werehog altogether since it'd be a little too weird and redundant.

2 hours ago, KnuxDLX said:

I like Shadow, but wouldn’t he be best left for another trilogy? There was a whole 10 years of Sonic characters before Shadow was introduced. I think Sonic’s “ultimate” rival would be a good draw for a fourth film, the first in a new series, with Shadow’s redemption arc playing out over the next one-and-a-half films before an epic conclusion where he finally joins the good guys for good before the final battle.

 

I mean with Shadow has to come Rouge and Omega, right? That trio is legendary.

Most of those 10 years was pretty empty. They could easily jump straight to Shadow. I don't see how they could stretch out his origin that long tbh. His redeption is based on realising what Maria really wanted rather than a slow ideological shift. And using the Heroes amnesia plot to keep him a villain might come off as contrived or underwhelming to general audiences. Personally, if they do Shadow, I want his death to be real and permanent. If they want to keep him around for Team Dark, maybe have a Shadow Android created based on scans of his mind or something like that.

[Badnik Mechanic]

There was some doubt as to if this would happen but...

 

The McDonalds toys are coming to the UK. But they won't be the same as the leaked figures since the UK chain doesn't do plastic toys anymore due to their no plastic policy.

 

So we're getting either books or board games. 

 

Edit: Apparently they can also be plushies!

https://twitter.com/BENDYAJ_/status/1499437800214740992?t=bKGqxftiO0s5GIXbSAaOnw&s=19

 

[CaptainRobo]

Just discovered these. They are soon going to wrap up the animation according to one of the animators who posted these.:

Also found these.:

 

[Empire88]

Something may be coming in the coming few hours be it a little more footage/images of Tails or JPN dub info) or The Japanese movie account tweeted this 13 hours ago

This was done around 6PM Japan time yesterday and it is currently only 7AM, tomorrow refers to the next few hours. Here is my own translation:

Starting tomorrow

"I'll be in charge (of the ☆Announcment☆)!!  Is everybody ready?"

Two things. One is the word used for "announcement" can also be notification. Second is the hashtag shown is "#Fluffy"

 

[DaBigJ]

I recommend people keep their expectations in check and not expect anything big or major, that way you'll be pleasantly be surprised by whatever happens.

[Empire88]

Yeah to be clear I don't think it is anything major either. Just sharing there is a tease for something small is all. 

[phobs]

The announcements were the date of release in Japan (August 19th) and Japanese voice cast

 

[Rabbitearsblog]

3 minutes ago, phobs said:

The announcements were the date of release in Japan (August 19th) and Japanese voice cast

 

So, the movie won't be released in Japan until August 19th. Interesting...

[DaBigJ]

2 minutes ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

So, the movie won't be released in Japan until August 19th. Interesting...

This is how you spoil a movie to an entire country. Bummer, man. Kinda strange move.

[Empire88]

Not saying it isn't the best marketing (I agree 100% it should be earlier), it is also standard for Japan. Several Hollywood movies that have major spoilers come out later. Other times the movies release earlier. 

[PeterPancake]

20 hours ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Sorry, but that was never going to happen. The budget needed to put more than a scene or two on Sonic's world is too much for them, even with Paramount's increased confidence.

Can you make them the ultimate villain in a trilogy though? And is Metal really that impressive compared to the Death Egg Robot or the Prototype Ship from the first movie? Shadow offers a story where Sonic and Eggman are forced to band together in an alliance against a threat eclipsing everything that's come before.

I doubt that. With two proven successes under his belt, and on the eve of a cinematic universe, Paramount will be willing to give Fowler whatever resources he needs to make Sonic 3 the BIGGEST, and most lucrative installment in the franchise. 

They've weaved this mystery surrounding Sonic's origins over two films now. By the time we get to the third, it will be time to reveal the truth, hopefully in an epic conclusion. 

Regarding your second paragraph -- The Death Egg space station would naturally serve that purpose, and Metal Sonic would be a natural extension of it. Shadow on the other hand is a complete divergence from the narrative threads set up by the first film, because his lore is completely disconnected from it. I'd argue it doesn't even make sense in this universe, since Sonic 1 was a first-contact story. 

 

Now I don't doubt that the filmakers will try to find a way to shoehorn the Gerald Robotnik lore into this universe, but that's exactly what it will be, a shoehorned in element. It wouldn't be a natural extension of the world they've already established. 

 

I just hope Fowler is able to exercise self restraint, and FINISH telling the story he started in the first film, based in the lore of the classic games. 

[CertifiedNobody]

2 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

I doubt that. With two proven successes under his belt, and on the eve of a cinematic universe, Paramount will be willing to give Fowler whatever resources he needs to make Sonic 3 the BIGGEST, and most lucrative installment in the franchise. 

They've weaved this mystery surrounding Sonic's origins over two films now. By the time we get to the third, it will be time to reveal the truth, hopefully in an epic conclusion. 

I think you underestimate the challenge and cost of making an entire movie in a hyperrealistic CGI world. It's far too much of a risk to ever be considered worthwhile. Paramount still hasn't made a Transformers movie set entirely on Cybertron, and that would be easier, since a metal planet is easier to make look real than a natural one.

2 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

Regarding your second paragraph -- The Death Egg space station would naturally serve that purpose, and Metal Sonic would be a natural extension of it.

The Death Egg is a hard sell. I doubt Paramount wants the ultimate threat of their trilogy to bhe a Star Wars reference, and a lot of it's elements are already being incorperated into the Death Egg Robot for Sonic 2. In every way except visually, the giant mech and giant floating ball are interchangable for a narrative. A Metal Sonic/Death Egg story would be repetitive.

2 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

Shadow on the other hand is a complete divergence from the narrative threads set up by the first film, because his lore is completely disconnected from it. 

Him and Gerald tie into Robotnik's history with the military and help strengthen the connection between Earth and Mobius.

2 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

I'd argue it doesn't even make sense in this universe, since Sonic 1 was a first-contact story. 

The very existance of Angel Island and the Master Emerald shrine on Earth disproves that completely. Gerald could have taken inspiration from the ruins, or evenused ARK to view alien worlds.

2 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

Now I don't doubt that the filmakers will try to find a way to shoehorn the Gerald Robotnik lore into this universe, but that's exactly what it will be, a shoehorned in element. It wouldn't be a natural extension of the world they've already established. 

Better a slightly shoehorned in element than something that feels completely devoid of growth or development for the universe, because that's what Metal is here. He's not a bigger threat or a nw aspect of the Sonic Movie Universe, he's just a machine and should never be introduced as late as a third movie, because at that point we've seen more intereting thinks, like Knuckles, the Death Egg Robot, and (recent spoiler), and the Death Egg isn't much better, and would be just as shoehorned, if not more so, as Shadow would be.

2 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

I just hope Fowler is able to exercise self restraint, and FINISH telling the story he started in the first film, based in the lore of the classic games. 

This trilogy was never about the classic games and that was never the intention. That's such a weird claim. Yeah, they've only introduced classic characters so far, but that's because they're still establishing the core cast of the series, and most of the core cast comes from the classic games. At best you could claim Sonic Movie 2 is loosely based on the second half of the Genesis games, but anything beyond that is Matpat levels of stretching it and seeing nonexistant connections.

[PeterPancake]

1 hour ago, CertifiedNobody said:

I think you underestimate the challenge and cost of making an entire movie in a hyperrealistic CGI world. It's far too much of a risk to ever be considered worthwhile. Paramount still hasn't made a Transformers movie set entirely on Cybertron, and that would be easier, since a metal planet is easier to make look real than a natural one.

Trust me, It's nowhere near as hard or impossible as you're making it out to be. There are plenty, dozens even, of moderate and/or comparable budget films & shows set on alien planets and/or non-earth settings. (GOTG, After Earth, Narnia, Captain Marvel, Ender's Game, Lost in Space, Star Wars, Alien (films), Star Trek etc). It's a regular occurrence if anything. And most of the time, filmmakers do not create whole worlds through CG. Shooting on location, and then adding digital assets later on is how crews usually save money, AND bring these worlds to life. 

 

The biggest challenge would be having mostly CG characters, but that's hardly unprecedented either. 

1 hour ago, CertifiedNobody said:

The Death Egg is a hard sell. I doubt Paramount wants the ultimate threat of their trilogy to bhe a Star Wars reference, and a lot of it's elements are already being incorperated into the Death Egg Robot for Sonic 2. In every way except visually, the giant mech and giant floating ball are interchangable for a narrative. A Metal Sonic/Death Egg story would be repetitive.

And the Space Colony A.R.K. wouldn't be? They're both rip-offs off the Death Star, if you want take it there. The Death Egg just has the benefit of being wholly much more iconic within the history of the franchise. The final battlegrounds for Sonic and Eggman's showdown-- which should wholly be the focus of this trilogy. 

 

1 hour ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Him and Gerald tie into Robotnik's history with the military and help strengthen the connection between Earth and Mobius.

You can strengthen that connection by letting us VISIT Sonic's world, and having Robotnik take it over. 

1 hour ago, CertifiedNobody said:

The very existance of Angel Island and the Master Emerald shrine on Earth disproves that completely. Gerald could have taken inspiration from the ruins, or evenused ARK to view alien worlds.

This is the first I'm hearing about Angel Island being on Earth, and I'm sure there's a decent explanation for it, considering Knuckles comes from Sonic's world. 

But even then, having the Master Emerald exist on Earth is an easier pill to swallow than going back and retconning the context of Sonic's existence. "Oh, turns out, the Government knew about Sonic's world 50 years ago, decades before Sonic even existed, and somehow created a clone of him. They also built a space station housing a giant creature"

1 hour ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Better a slightly shoehorned in element than something that feels completely devoid of growth or development for the universe, because that's what Metal is here. He's not a bigger threat or a nw aspect of the Sonic Movie Universe, he's just a machine and should never be introduced as late as a third movie, because at that point we've seen more intereting thinks, like Knuckles, the Death Egg Robot, and (recent spoiler), and the Death Egg isn't much better, and would be just as shoehorned, if not more so, as Shadow would be

 

1. Metal Sonic is a natural extension of Sonic & Eggman's rivalry that's been built up over two films, and NEEDS to conclude in the third (since Carrey probably isn't sticking around past 3). Shadow is completely disconnected from it. 

 

2. Because of the fact that this is a movie, and not a 16-bit video game, Metal Sonic would obviously be written to have a character. And are dozens and dozens of examples of compelling robot/machine characters in fiction. Some of which have already been pointed out to you. Some of which comes from this franchise's own material (OVA Metal Sonic). There are dozens of ways to a) give Metal not only a character, but a character ARC and b) make him stronger and more impressive than anything we've seen in the films before

 

 

1 hour ago, CertifiedNobody said:

 

This trilogy was never about the classic games and that was never the intention. That's such a weird claim. Yeah, they've only introduced classic characters so far, but that's because they're still establishing the core cast of the series, and most of the core cast comes from the classic games. At best you could claim Sonic Movie 2 is loosely based on the second half of the Genesis games, but anything beyond that is Matpat levels of stretching it and seeing nonexistant connections.

They marketed the first film in part as being based on SONIC 1. Jeff Fowler, the crew etc all said their intention was to do an origin story based firmly in the framework of the first game. Now ofc that doesn't mean the movies are going to follow the chronology of the games 1:1. But it should count for them staying true to the mythology they established in the first film, at least for the first trilogy.

[CaptainRobo]

Found these from the official McDonald's Australia website.:

Spoiler

 

[CertifiedNobody]

6 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

Trust me, It's nowhere near as hard or impossible as you're making it out to be. There are plenty, dozens even, of moderate and/or comparable budget films & shows set on alien planets and/or non-earth settings. (GOTG, After Earth, Narnia, Captain Marvel, Ender's Game, Lost in Space, Star Wars, Alien (films), Star Trek etc). It's a regular occurrence if anything. And most of the time, filmmakers do not create whole worlds through CG. Shooting on location, and then adding digital assets later on is how crews usually save money, AND bring these worlds to life. 

 

The biggest challenge would be having mostly CG characters, but that's hardly unprecedented either. 

Are any of those as visually complicated and (for lack of a better term) video game-y as Sonic's World established to be? You can't just film real world Earth and add a loop in the background. I'm not too into sci-fi, but most of Star Wars in set in very realistic locations like deserts and tundras. I guess Disney just didn't have the confidence to build entire CGI worlds?

6 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

And the Space Colony A.R.K. wouldn't be? They're both rip-offs off the Death Star, if you want take it there. The Death Egg just has the benefit of being wholly much more iconic within the history of the franchise. The final battlegrounds for Sonic and Eggman's showdown-- which should wholly be the focus of this trilogy. 

Space Colony ARK is just as iconic and more visually unique. The only similarity is the planet destorying laser, which isn't even the ultimate threat in the end, it's the colony crashing to Earth. Personally, I think we shopuld aim for something different and more interesting than "Sonic beats RObotnik again", and the Shadow story is a great choice.

6 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

You can strengthen that connection by letting us VISIT Sonic's world, and having Robotnik take it over. 

This goes back to an issue I've been having but unable to communicate well. Robotnik's creations don't add much to the the movie universe as a whole. It's just machines. The real meat of the universe are the past connections between Earth and Mobius, Chaos Energy, and based on the trailers, G.U.N. Robotnik building something ultimately adds little to bring depth or intrigue to the universe, as it's just some metal contruct without any real place in the world.

6 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

This is the first I'm hearing about Angel Island being on Earth, and I'm sure there's a decent explanation for it, considering Knuckles comes from Sonic's world. 

But even then, having the Master Emerald exist on Earth is an easier pill to swallow than going back and retconning the context of Sonic's existence. "Oh, turns out, the Government knew about Sonic's world 50 years ago, decades before Sonic even existed, and somehow created a clone of him. They also built a space station housing a giant creature"

They said Angel Island was in it in an interview, but more importantly, have you never heard of the popular theory that Gerald based Shadow on the mural of Super Sonic in the Hidden Palace? It's easy to do something like that. And the military is clearly more advanced than ours in the real world. It'd be easier to pull off than it was for Sonic X or Archie to incorperate.

6 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

1. Metal Sonic is a natural extension of Sonic & Eggman's rivalry that's been built up over two films, and NEEDS to conclude in the third (since Carrey probably isn't sticking around past 3). Shadow is completely disconnected from it. 

What does Metal Sonic add to their rivalry in any way?

6 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

2. Because of the fact that this is a movie, and not a 16-bit video game, Metal Sonic would obviously be written to have a character. And are dozens and dozens of examples of compelling robot/machine characters in fiction. Some of which have already been pointed out to you. Some of which comes from this franchise's own material (OVA Metal Sonic). There are dozens of ways to a) give Metal not only a character, but a character ARC and b) make him stronger and more impressive than anything we've seen in the films before

Yeah, but the ones that were pointed out to me were designed for completely different stories and genres than what Metal Sonic would be used for. And is it really arguable that he's a better choice than Shadow, who already has what many people consider to be the most interesting backstory and character arc in the series?

6 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

They marketed the first film in part as being based on SONIC 1. Jeff Fowler, the crew etc all said their intention was to do an origin story based firmly in the framework of the first game. Now ofc that doesn't mean the movies are going to follow the chronology of the games 1:1. But it should count for them staying true to the mythology they established in the first film, at least for the first trilogy.

It has Green Hill Zone for 5 minutes and no game characters except Sonic and Robotnik. That's not the beginning to a "classic trilogy'. It has just as much in common with SA2, with City Escape being the setpiece of the final battle and the military hunting Sonic. If it were a classic trilogy, Metal would come before or at the same time as Knuckles.

[Empire88]

Just a friendly warning that there has been more sources of previously-discussed major character/potential ending spoilers due to McDonald's toys. So avoid casually browsing even for McDonald's blindly. 

[DaBigJ]

1 hour ago, nobukitsu88 said:

Just a friendly warning that there has been more sources of previously-discussed major character/potential ending spoilers due to McDonald's toys. So avoid casually browsing even for McDonald's blindly. 

Spoiler

Can you dm a source? I just want closure.

Edit: I saw it. [SPOILERS. (No images or anything tho.)]

Spoiler

It's Super Sonic. He's really in the movie

 

[Graystripe2000]

New poster for 4DX theaters. https://www.cbr.com/sonic-2-4dx-poster-exclusive/?utm_content=buffer219ee&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_source=CBR-TW&utm_campaign=CBR-TW

[DaBigJ]

Oh hey, they remade one of the old poses for it.

Sonic 1 

Sonic 2