The Continuity Debate

[Phos]

I never got a chance to mention why I think of SA 2 as being separate from SA 1. Specifically, falling from orbit is suddenly a threat, previously, it was an inconvenience. That's a fundamental change to the world.

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. For one, this would mean Tails built a rocket that required more emeralds than there existed at the time. Second, none of the emeralds are grayscale (like the character duplicates) or the same color as another; if one is really a duplicate, it arbitrarily changed color. Third, the story says each character had an emerald before the fighting started, which is before the duplicator ray even comes into play.

It also looks a bit messy considering SA2 had a fake emerald and it was treated like a mildly shocking development...

Sonic the Fighter was basically made as a joke. However, if anyone wants to accept it as canon, it's another reason to believe that there are more than one set of emeralds. Sonic the Fighter seems to be completely missing the grey one. Instead, there's a magenta and an orange emerald.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

I also find Sonic the Fighters to be canonical - this game introduces important recurring elements in the series such as Amy's Piko Piko Hammer, Tails' Workshop (as well as his emblem), and Espio's ninja techniques. We can just assume that the eighth Chaos Emerald may have been a fake, seeing as the dark purple emerald was in possession of Fang after all. From what I've heard, Sonic Chronicles gets the Chaos Emerald colors wrong anyways... not that I consider Chronicles to be canon, though.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-

Most canon game evar! Resolves dangling plot threads rather than engaging in willful amnesia about the past! A whole codex embedding it in the games' pre-existing lore!!!

As for the variable Emerald colours; they are Chaos Emeralds. It is, if anything, oxymoronic to expect 'em to stay the same.

I believe some elements of Chaotix were recycled in Heroes anyways. Besides the Chaotix reappearing the first time since their title game, Metal Sonic is also the primary nemesis. Aw man, that game had a lot of style. The colors! The huge red Metal Sonic (Metallix, I think people call it) was crazy, and it beats the hell out of Metal Overlord who looked too messy for a final boss.

But he's so apathetic! Float... eh... palm swipe... eh...

I think it's called Metal Sonic Kai, though. "Metallix" as a name was an invention of Richard Burton, editor of Sonic The Comic back in the day.

[Phos]

Resolves dangling plot threads rather than engaging in willful amnesia about the past! A whole codex embedding it in the games' pre-existing lore!!!

I'm not really seeing any evidence of this. It actually seemed to pick up the already tied off plot thread of the other Echidnas, only treating them more like aliens. It then proceeded to go on about aliens for a while about actual aliens, and then ends with a cliffhanger.

Also, Metropolis? Old news, should have been long gone by this point.

[Dr. Mechano]

Most canon game evar! Resolves dangling plot threads rather than engaging in willful amnesia about the past! A whole codex embedding it in the games' pre-existing lore!!!

Many of which are outright wrong.

Like "Shadow teamed up with Sonic to defeat Eggman" when he reformed in SA2, when what happened was that Shadow teamed up with everyone (Eggman included) to defeat Professor Gerald's posthumous plan. Even if you want to take that in the broader sense, Sonic and Shadow have never- at any given time- both fought against Dr. Eggman at the same time. This codex entry is bogus.

To say nothing of Eggman roboticizing armadillos, a technique which was never ever used in the game series, yet the heroes are familiar with it. The heroes are also strangely familiar with Swatbots, an enemy which has also never appeared in any game media ever.

This says nothing of the out-of-character behavior, such as Sonic assisting GUN in a preemptive strike on Eggman, and later wishing he didn't survive the attack. Sonic, who in a very recent appearance Sonic Rush criticized Blaze for her murderous intent on Eggman, cannot sensibly desire Eggman's death. It just doesn't work.

There's the problem of when this happens too. After the attack, Eggman is gone for two years. This kind of forces Chronicles to not fit into the series, where Eggman attacks, retreats, and attacks again only a short time later. The time skip is signifficant enough to pose a problem to it fitting in to the story, because even if the "present" part of the plot happened in the normal flow of the games' plotline, we have to keep in mind that everything else in the game occurs two years later.

It can be seen like this.

Sonic Rush Adventure ---> Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity ---> Intro to Sonic Chronicles ---> Sonic Unleashed ---> Sonic and the Black Knight ---(Some indterminate time later)---> Sonic Chronicles (Post time skip)

This presents a problem when you consider that Eggman was missing for two years. I suppose we can assume that Chronicles, intro included, all takes place at the very end of the series, and is constantly pushed further and further back with each new installment, but this still doesn't avert the other plot problems I listed beforehand.

This really makes me think Chronicles cannot possibly be canon.

Edited October 20, 2009 by Dr. Mechano

[Icecoldfrieza]

I think, for all intents and purposes, that we should not consider the codex of Sonic Chronicles to be canon material. Not the game itself, just the codex. In addition to what was already mentioned, there is also the obvious error of Emerl still being dead when he was brought back to life in Sonic Advance 3. Now, one could argue that Gemerl was an upgraded Phi robot, but if you watch the ending, its clearly meant to be Emerl. A remix of Emerl's theme song even plays during the last boss fight.

Its worth noting that no one actually says Emerl is dead in-game. It is only stated in the codex.

Edited October 20, 2009 by Icecoldfrieza

[Diogenes]

Wait, why not? Just because it's implausible doesn't mean it's not the case. Big is an implausible character.

As much as I like Big, him being able to sneak into outer space stretches my suspension of disbelief to the breaking point.

As for the variable Emerald colours; they are Chaos Emeralds. It is, if anything, oxymoronic to expect 'em to stay the same.

Not necessarily. Supposedly their name is referencing Chaos's rampage in the past, I'd guess either in the sense that they are Chaos's emeralds or that they have the power to cause great destruction. The emeralds themselves aren't particularly chaotic.

This presents a problem when you consider that Eggman was missing for two years. I suppose we can assume that Chronicles, intro included, all takes place at the very end of the series, and is constantly pushed further and further back with each new installment

Why is this "time skip" such a big issue? Why can't it just be something like:

Sonic Rush Adventure ---> Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity ---> Intro to Sonic Chronicles ---> 2 years of nothing ---> Sonic Chronicles ---> Sonic Unleashed ---> Sonic and the Black Knight

People always get worked up over the gap, but I don't see any reason why it has to be any more complicated than that (well, plus Chronicles 2 after Chronicles to fix the ending).

That said I don't think Chronicles is canon anyway so meh.

[MobileChicaneX]

Why is this "time skip" such a big issue? Why can't it just be something like:

Sonic Rush Adventure ---> Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity ---> Intro to Sonic Chronicles ---> 2 years of nothing ---> Sonic Chronicles ---> Sonic Unleashed ---> Sonic and the Black Knight

People always get worked up over the gap, but I don't see any reason why it has to be any more complicated than that (well, plus Chronicles 2 after Chronicles to fix the ending).

That said I don't think Chronicles is canon anyway so meh.

You sir are now the most greatest guy in the universe thank you.

[Badnik Zero]

But he's so apathetic! Float... eh... palm swipe... eh...

He does put up a pretty pathetic fight. Ha ha ha, I forgot about that.

If anyone wants to accept it as canon, it's another reason to believe that there are more than one set of emeralds.

I'm not really against the idea of there being a whole bunch of Emeralds out there. It would make a lot of games easier to accept. My only problem is that they've always been referred to as the Chaos Emeralds, for as long as I can remember, as in one singular set of them. It's never been just Chaos Emeralds or some Chaos Emeralds. Just the simple way they're talked about suggests a single set. Also they're kind of Dragonball parodies.

As for this Chronicles problem, I think it's part of that secondary canon (or maybe storyline would be a better word) that I mentioned earlier. Since it's handheld, the events of Chronicles will have less of an impact on the overall timeline, and its finer points will be ignored. And that includes personality quirks, if you thought characterization was off. I used to think the time passage was a big deal, but it's written off easily enough. No matter how much time passes, they'll still never age. I'm sure by the end of the series, things will just about return to the status quo, and we'll see if Shade sticks around. I mean, have we forgotten the moon in SA2? That whole thing was ignored.

Edited October 20, 2009 by Stretchy Werewolf

[Nepenthe]

Perhaps I'm being very shortsighted, but if there were two or more sets of Chaos Emeralds, why in the world doesn't anyone search for them? Seems to me that for as long as the Emeralds have been recognized to exist, which I presume is the beginning of civilization given the Gaia Temples, someone would have found more of them out there, or at least theorized about it. Seriously, if there was the likely possibility of there being more sets, one would expect a veritable and perpetual gold rush scenario or something, especially from characters like Eggman, Fang, and the Rogues running around.

There's just a severe lack of importance on the idea in the modern canon-- All civilizations who've dealt with the Emeralds only remark about a set of seven, and no one has even bothered to try and find more, even with there being mixed-up numbers in the past. As far as I'm concerned, any discrepancies in number in the older games are mere retcons now, and there was always intended to be a limited number of them.