I want a true Solo Sonic game.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

Give me a solo Blaze The Cat spinoff game first and then we'll talk! :'P

I have absolutely no interest in yet even more solo Sonic games hogwash. I'm sick of it from many fan games too. I'd prefer to explore the side cast more instead of pretending nothing good can be done with them. There is nothing deep about Sonic and Eggman's rivalry in the current game series and there never was... and unless SonicTeam/SEGA has a change of heart and get amazing writers and focus more on story, otherwise that'll never change even if you limit the game to 2 characters.

As for my thoughts on Sonic 1, while a fine game... but it is also one of the most boring games in the series I say. And everybody hates the whole Sonic needs to go back to his roots rubbish line thrown around often by people who have no idea what the real problems are with the series. And saying the idea of just Sonic & Robotnik has potential to be great means absolutely nothing as almost any concept has potential to be great... and carries no promise of working well in reality when executed.

In short I completely disagree with the concept suggestion of this topic. In my opinion the last thing the franchise needs is more only-Sonic drivel.

[Emerald Chaos]

At this point I feel like a Sonic game literally only featuring Sonic and Eggman would be a waste of the potential of the other characters.
I'm fine with Sonic being the only playable character, but there's virtually nothing you can do with just Sonic and Eggman that couldn't also be done in a game that features the other characters in some way

[Gumbit]

Every franchise these days has a large cast despite being playable or just cameo for story contribution , even Mania counts . I don't think having only two characters would work . 

[Detective Kaito]

I get what you mean, and I wouldn't mind it if the gameplay is good.

We've seen that ever since Sonic Colors, the stories in games have been really shitty, so going for a very minimalist story is actually a benefit.

[Plasme]

Unpopular opinion, but I really want a Solo Sonic game.

And I mean a real Solo Sonic game. I don't want to see any of Sonic's friends. Even though Sonic has been the only playable character in ages, his friends have been a constant presence in every game. It was particularly unbearable in Forces. Tails in particular has played a significant role in every game's story.

Sonic 1 and CD feel like far more personal fights between Eggman and Sonic because they are the only characters presented. And sure, Sonic CD had Amy and Metal Sonic, but Amy was hardly in it and Metal Sonic was a glorified boss fight. When you got to the final boss of Sonic 1 and CD, it felt like a final battle between foes who have been fighting against each other all through the game. It made it way more impactful.

The reason for this is simple. Games let you play in the shoes of the protagonist and connect you with their struggles. It's one of the greatest advantages of the medium. But when side characters have a stake in the protagonist's fight against the antagonist, this effect is cheapened.

Ever since Sonic 2, this quality of the franchise has been thrown away because Sonic and Tails is the default. Also, Tails features to save the day when you beat Eggman in both Sonic 2 and 3, even if you play as Sonic alone.

Consider this. There has never been a 3D Sonic game where Sonic and Eggman are the only characters in the game.

The closest to what I want was is in Secret Rings, where Sonic fought Erazor Djin, but even that had the whole dumb Sahara sub plot which weakened the rivalry between Djin and Sonic. The plot in Secret Rings is terrible, but I think people would consider the final boss a memorable moment of the game and it is precisely because it's Sonic against Djin on his own.

[StaticMania]

2 minutes ago, Plasme said:

...but even that had the whole dumb Sahara sub plot which weakened the rivalry between Djinn and Sonic.

Wow, I've never seen such a bizarre interpretation...

But it can't be weak because it's just weak, I guess...

[Wraith]

This is a bait thread but I respect it. 

[Kuzu]

Just now, Wraith said:

This is a bait thread but I respect it. 

Based on his posts, I think he's actually serious. 

[Plasme]

2 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Wow, I've never seen such a bizarre interpretation...

But it can't be weak because it's just weak, I guess...

Does anyone actually like the terrible Sahara sub plot though? Serious question?

And Sonic and Djin have basically no rivalry in the game, which you don't want from a protagonist and antagonist.

[StaticMania]

They'd have even less of one if Shara wasn't there...

She's the only reason Sonic has any "personal" beef with the Eraser.

[Kuzu]

I'm going to humor this thread; I don't get how having less characters necessarily enhances Sonic & Eggman's rivalry. They're the only characters in Sonic 4, and surprise, that game is still garbage. Sonic & Tails are the only characters who have really had focus, and Tails is so fucking useless that he may as well not even be there and surprise, the games are still trash. 

So...where is this idea that having less characters makes a story "more interesting" comes from? 

[Wraith]

6 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Based on his posts, I think he's actually serious. 

For his sake I'm gonna assume he's not.

[Plasme]

3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

They'd have even less of one if Shara wasn't there...

She's the only reason Sonic has any "personal" beef with the Eraser.

They make the real rivalry/relatuonship between Sahara and Eraser. Both have personal history and decide to act in different ways later in life. 

Sonic's a witness to their confrontation.

That's the problem.

[StaticMania]

3 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

So...where is this idea that having less characters makes a story "more interesting" comes from? 

Just to hazard a guess it might be Sonic's ***** *******...

Not guaranteed though.

Quote

They make the real rivalry/relatuonship between Sahara and Eraser. Both have personal history and decide to act in different ways later in life. 

Considering Sonic's role in stories is to change characters, there's no problem with this. Rivalries are only interesting for the impact they have on the protagonist and Eraser Genie would need to be entirely rewritten or...a different character for that to even work.

Another game, another attempt.

[thumbs13]

You're talking about Sonic 4. That's the game you're thinking of.

[Plasme]

3 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I'm going to humor this thread; I don't get how having less characters necessarily enhances Sonic & Eggman's rivalry. They're the only characters in Sonic 4, and surprise, that game is still garbage. Sonic & Tails are the only characters who have really had focus, and Tails is so fucking useless that he may as well not even be there and surprise, the games are still trash. 

So...where is this idea that having less characters makes a story "more interesting" comes from? 

I'm not saying having purely Sonic and Eggman will guarantee a good rivalry. You are right that Sonic 4 is dreadful.

However, it certainly makes it easier. As I just stated, the best quality of games is that you can easily identify with the protagonist. When Sonic fights Eggman, that isn't just Sonic, that's you.

The problem is that by having side characters make serious input into the hero's confrontation with the villain, this connection between player and protagonist is seriously undermined.

[Indigo Rush]

...why do you keep calling Shahra "Sahara?" Also, I'm not sure I totally follow your reasoning for eschewing the established support cast. Sonic isn't a game about self insertion. *shoves Sonic Forces back into a locker*

Anyway, I can't say I much want a "solo Sonic" game. While some of the worst Sonic games feature multiple characters, some of the best Sonic games feature multiple characters as well. It's all about how it's executed. 

[Diogenes]

7 minutes ago, Plasme said:

The reason for this is simple. Games let you play in the shoes of the protagonist and connect you with their struggles. It's one of the greatest advantages of the medium. But when side characters have a stake in the protagonist's fight against the antagonist, this effect is cheapened.

Not...really?

You don't need to cut every other character to have two of them actually engage with each other. The games where you've got a half dozen or more characters, several of them with their own separate stories, are one thing, but other characters can support the main conflict rather than take away from it if they actually write it that way.

The main problem with the Sonic and Eggman conflict is that they just haven't bothered to do much of anything with it. They've written more specific arcs for other characters, they've created new villains to write the story around, but Sonic vs Eggman just gets written as a static inevitability; they're going to fight because one's the hero and one's the villain, and that's all there is to it, so let's get it over with and move on to the "real" story. We should have stories that focus on Sonic and Eggman in a meaningful way, but that's going to require a change in how they approach stories in the series, not just cutting characters.

[Kuzu]

4 minutes ago, Plasme said:

I'm not saying having purely Sonic and Eggman will guarantee a good rivalry. You are right that Sonic 4 is dreadful.

However, it certainly makes it easier. As I just stated, the best quality of games is that you can easily identify with the protagonist. When Sonic fights Eggman, that isn't just Sonic, that's you.

The problem is that by having side characters make serious input into the hero's confrontation with the villain, this connection between player and protagonist is seriously undermined.

This only works if the games actually bother to develop the dynamic between Sonic and Eggman, which they haven't. And like...you don't just need Sonic & Eggman to achieve that, because there is such a thing as supporting characters, who support the protagonist in said conflict. 

[Wraith]

How would you all make the dynamic between Sonic and Eggman more interesting/meaningful? I never saw a point in escalating it because eventually the two have to reset back to some sort of status quo so we can go back to business as usual, but I don't have much of a problem with how their rivalry is handled in the games anyway. Sonic's friends being present or not they usually have good enough chemistry in the games where they're actually speaking.

[Tornado]

I can't believe it's 2006 again and we don't have 14 years of shitty friends-free Sonic games to show that it doesn't actually change anything.

[Kuzu]

3 minutes ago, Wraith said:

How would you all make the dynamic between Sonic and Eggman more interesting/meaningful? I never saw a point in escalating it because eventually the two have to reset back to some sort of status quo so we can go back to business as usual, but I don't have much of a problem with how their rivalry is handled in the games anyway. Sonic's friends being present or not they usually have good enough chemistry in the games where they're actually speaking.

I never saw an issue with it myself, but I've noticed some people feel that their characters being so static while everyone else around them become more fleshed out is a detriment and feels it makes the main hero and main villain look rather plain and uninteresting to the more fleshed out cast. Which...I can understand, but I saw it as a necessary evil to keep the function of the games going. 

[Wraith]

1 minute ago, Kuzu said:

I never saw an issue with it myself, but I've noticed some people feel that their characters being so static while everyone else around them become more fleshed out is a detriment and feels it makes the main hero and main villain look rather plain and uninteresting to the more fleshed out cast. Which...I can understand, but I saw it as a necessary evil to keep the function of the games going. 

That's where I'm at with it. I don't even see it as a problem really. Sonic and Eggman are the center of attention a majority of the time. It doesn't have to be ALL the time. 

[Plumbers_Helper]

36 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Does anyone actually like the terrible Sahara sub plot though?

Sonic and the Secret Rings has one of my favorite stories in the entire franchise, not just the games. I loved the twist at the end with how Shahra was the Erazor Djinn's lamp brought to life through his magic. Because she was the lamp he spent thousands of years trapped in she understood all his pain and torment and still sympathized with him despite how much his anger twisted him. That's why when Sonic wished for a dying Shahra "to go back to the way you were!" Erazor Djinn's lamp was restored, Shahra granted Sonic's wish before she "died".

It's a really clever revelation that I never see any one mention online.

[Kuzu]

7 minutes ago, Wraith said:

That's where I'm at with it. I don't even see it as a problem really. Sonic and Eggman are the center of attention a majority of the time. It doesn't have to be ALL the time. 

If I had to answer your question from before; I guess the issue is there's no real personal connection between Sonic & Eggman besides the fact the former simply stops the latter's plans. So I guess you can add some type of personal edge to their relationship. I remember Archie dove into that by making Eggman personally responsible for a lot of the shit Sonic went through in his life, and of course ya know, Sonic literally drove Eggman to insanity.