Had Sega Not Dropped Out

[azoo]

So the majority of fans here and in general prob aren't an old shit, and thus don't remember the day that Sega 'died'. 

Not literally, of course, but the day in March 2001 where the demons caught up to them. After a conga line of massive mistakes from one of the most iconic companies in the video game industry, Sega dropped out of the console race, waving it's flag of defeat to the Playstation 2, leaving room for Microsoft to take it's spot. Sega then spent the better half of the following decade trying to frantically feed a bleeding pocket with it's security band-aid of hardware sales ripped clean off.

Then they were eaten by Sammy Holdings (a massive Japanese gambling-centric business matterhorn), which while surveying their arcade / pachinko side left the console-savvy side out to fend for itself. Sega's existence as a now third party entity in that side of the world pushed them into a desperate claw to maintain relevancy and hold dominion on the world with a rapid-fire overclock of it's many franchises (particularly the one with that idiot in it); sending them (as well as themselves) in a downward spiral that ruined both's reputation. The past decade has been a company attempting to understand again why they were loved, with some hit or miss results, varying from grand success to horrible misfire.

But honestly.. did it have to happen this way?

I mean, yeah sure. After all, this was their fault. Deciding to make two consoles simultaneously in the dawn of the 5th generation (and then committing to neither), Sega had thrown their trustworthiness in the tank. And while regaining it was going good for the first year or so of the Dreamcast's trek, Sony walks in with a DVD player, backwards compatibility, a good reputation AND Electronic Arts not being pissed at the graphics card they decided to go with (nice one blowing what could've been your biggest ally on favoritism for your cousins at Toshiba, guys). Dreamgis was heading for an early grave without even doing anything necessarily wrong.

BUT COULD IT HAVE BEEN PREVENTED??

I mean.. maybe. Remember Billy over there?

No not him.

Ah, there he is.

Microsoft wanted to enter the videos game industry, and by jove did they try! They made a thing we call an Xbox, even though they didn't want to call it that necessarily at first (it's a box that runs DirectX. GEDDIT?). Yeah, so Microsoft wanted to enter the games industry after realizing their bed-buddy Sega (whom they helped program the DC's OS for and also made friendly with via Sega PC ports in the 90s of Genesis and Saturn games) was jumping ship. So, heavily inspired by the Dreamcast, Microsoft went out to make their own Dreamcast with blackjack and hookers, and thus the Xbox was born. 

While this led to some relatively high success and they remain in the industry today, Microsoft has a problem of it's own. The company from the get-go struggled to have an identity in the gaming industry (or at least one without a negative connotation), and thus was always seen from the grand majority as the inferior product. Microsoft's desperate attempts to gain an identity even led it's own bouts of infamy, what with their lack of understanding how to market to Japan (and eventually giving up), fumbled attempts to own/operate various studios (coughBUNGIEcoughRAREcoughETC), poor understanding of how to deliver hardware (selling the OG Xbox at a huge loss, the circuitboard failure that was the Duke Controller, the 360 Red Ring of Death, the whole forced Kinect thing with the One), amongst other things that make them look kinda poopy.

Even with their greatest success, the Xbox 360, they came in third place to the PS3 and the Wii; and the Xbox One as we know it is about to be outran by the Nintendo Switch (a console that came out four years afterward). Microsoft keeps making new consoles because they are infact very popular with the normies, but in the circle it markets to they are considered the 'boring' option, the blatant corporate husk, the one you laugh out of the room if it's not playing Halo.

Great controllers, though.

BUT COULD IT HAVE BEEN PREVENTED??

Well..

You see although MS saw their opportunity and gunned for it before even thinking too hard about it, Sega and Microsoft were actually in talks around the release of the OG Xbox to make it backwards compatible with the Sega Dreamcast, and Sega would've handled all marketing in the eastern side of the world for Xbox under their own label. This sounds good, right? Well it apparently fell through because Sega and MS were really bullheaded about wanting to use each of their own online service plans and, with neither budging, the plan fell through.

Idiots. Well at the very least Sega went to make exclusives for it. Ever wondered why Jet Set Radio Future and Panzer Dragoon Orta are the two dopest fucking games you'll never play? Yeah, nice.

ANYWAYS. THIS IS ALREADY A LONG POST. Here's the pitch:

What if Sega and Microsoft weren't dumb and just kept it going?

Congrats Microsoft, you are now in the video game industry. You also have the (then) quality-associated name of Sega's software as your main weapon. The console is already built, you just have to back it up and help push the company forward. Meanwhile, your company can still try to make it's own game studio and maybe scoop up some companies (still get Bungie, we need Halo on consoles..) without feeling so desperate that you try to buy Donkey Kong and then realize you can't so you buy Banjo. Amongst doing other dumb shit.

Here's a peek into that timeline.

2001: SEGA MAKES A BIG ANNOUNCEMENT

The verdict is out. Everyone saw it coming. It ached in everyone's hearts, and Sega had to admit it..

The controller needed a revision. So they did that!

After surveying fans for feedback, Sega updated their controller with improved ergonomics, return of the classic d-pad and additions of a right stick, as well as C&Z buttons (mirroring L&R functions on older Dreamcast games, but serving as the black & white buttons on the Xbox controller post it's release). These changes put the controller on the same playing field as it's competitors (the PS2 and the Gamecube), and would've become the standard Sega controller until 2005 with the release of SEGA360 (where they drop the VMU slots, go wireless and C&Z buttons become LB&RB).

At E3 2001, Microsoft announces it's new unprecedented partnership with Sega (which is full of shit but oh well) with a new Microsoft-made kit: THE XPANSION UNIT. 

Released August-Sept 2001, it is an budget expansion kit that improves system performance and gives the console a hard drive (if I revised the image, I'd probably realistically make it the lower end 2-4gb HDD. 6th gen didn't NEED the 8 gigs the premium Xboxs had lol). Probably would've also come with an ethernet adapter as an upgrade from broadband, and sold for a hunnid or so.

However, if you are just getting into that rad as fuck Dreamcast wave, Microsoft has got you covered too! BEHOLD.

INTRODUCING the DREAMCAST X, a new model with the hard drive and extra functions built into the system, rocking a nice navy-blueish-black-ish on green color scheme and boldly launching that Chrimbus with a Microsoft-owned pack-in title they're calling "Halo: Combat Evolved". In 2003, a budget model Dreamcast (titled DREAMCAST S) would've hit shelves and come packaged with Billy Hatcher or Super Monkey Ball or something. You know. For the kids.

SO WHAT HAPPENS?

Well, the Sega Dreamcast manages to make roughly the combined numbers of it's original run + all the income of the OG Xbox's run, selling... a rough 60+ mil units? It's no PS2, but with Microsoft and Sega's symbiotic relationship at play the company has made the brand stronger than ever and revitalized Sega's stride. Now Sega's once-scattered third-party material is now in one place (though maybe a tad different due to butterfly effect and all), and that extends to Sonic. The poor bastard isn't getting ultra milked in this timeline because poppy doesn't need his dollar so he isn't forcing his boy to work in the steel mill every day for 12 hours a day running on stale bread!! Wow! SA3 is real and it's here! The series never had a meltdown! Though it probably still did dumb shit! Woah!

As for the far future of the company, well, let's be real. Sega probably manages to fuck up like nobody's business because they're Sega. The company still probably drops out of the race in the following ten or more years! Maybe Microsoft just consumes Sega whole and runs them dry! Maybe Sega just becomes a soulless husk that only feigns it's glory da-- hey wait they did that in our timeline too.

WHAT HAVE WE GOT TO LOSE??!?!

Anyways, thank you for reading this post. I guess if you wanted to contribute, you can discuss whether or not you think this would've been a good timeline, or what else you think could've been done. There's a lot to discuss, and a lot of places you could jump in the timeline and save everything!

After all, you could erase the 32X and that might alone save the company. You could have where Sega and Sony decided to team up for the Play-Saturn-Station after all instead of SoJ's boss looking at Sony, going "no we can do better" and then immediately shitting the bed and spoiling the dinner! WHO KNOWS! Give it a whirl!

And most importantly, (click play to reveal my request)

Peace.

[Tracker_TD]

I think a better timeline would be one where instead of us getting all this Dreamcast shenanigans, Segata Sanshiro just suplexed every single other console CEO with the force of a thousand nuclear explosions and the Saturn lived for the next 6 generations. Or alternatively Bernie Stolar got booted in the nads on the way to his first day at SEGA and immediately quit then and there, so that he could never scupper the Saturn as badly as he did. And maybe the same for Naka's ego while we're at it. 

I do love those hardware sketches though, that's my kind of shit. Man, we need Retro-Bit to hurry up with those analog Saturn pads...

7 hours ago, azoo said:

SA3 is real and it's here! The series never had a meltdown

A bit late for that when SA2 was arguably the start of that meltdown - I mean, look at Heroes 

[Rabid-Coot]

In that situation I think it would go poorly and we would end up with both companies out of the market.

[Waveshocker Sigma]

1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

A bit late for that when SA2 was arguably the start of that meltdown - I mean, look at Heroes 

Heroes was fine if you were smart enough to tell that the Gamecube version was obviously gonna be the best one. SADX, SA2B and Advance 1 and 2 made it obvious for young me. Shadow and 06 are where the problems started.

But let's not go into that old debate again. This entire scenario is neat, but dont you think that Sega would be better off working with Sony rather than Microsoft? Especially since that have a longer track record of doing so for their arcade stuff?

[Tornado]

The Dreamcast was dead by the end of 2000. Everyone knew it, and the only hope for Sega to accomplish anything was the complete dearth of PS2 consoles and software that holiday period. That didn't happen. Instead of people buying Dreamcasts instead of the PS2 when there was no stock and no games, people just waited; which is why Sega gave up the next month. Sega's best case at that point would have been for the original rumors for Microsoft to just buy out the company and introduce BC into the original XBox; but the Dreamcast was already a huge albatross and there would have been no benefit for either company to try and continue to push it as its own platform.

 

43 minutes ago, Rabid-Coot said:

In that situation I think it would go poorly and we would end up with both companies out of the market.

The idea of an XBox expansion for Dreamcast is absolutely insane; but Microsoft didn't blink an eye at losing billions of dollars on the original XBox. Microsoft happily wrote a check for RRoD that wiped out any overall profit the 360 had a chance of making. Microsoft, in a distant third on the market in this console generation, is happily plugging away for the next generation and doesn't care that they aren't making the most money because they are still making a lot now.

 

8 hours ago, azoo said:

Well, the Sega Dreamcast manages to make roughly the combined numbers of it's original run + all the income of the OG Xbox's run, selling

So you combine the 700 million dollars or so that Sega lost on the Dreamcast, with the 7 or so billion dollars that Microsoft lost on the original XBox?

[Tracker_TD]

28 minutes ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

Heroes was fine if you were smart enough to tell that the Gamecube version was obviously gonna be the best one. 

I've played it on both GC and PC.

They're both abominations. In fact I think I found it worse on Gamecube, somehow. That and it was Sonic's first multiplatform title - I'm putting the blame on the PS2's crappy architecture and Sonic Team's crappy cross-platform work, not 5 year old Jimmy who just wanted to buy the new Sonic on his console of choice. 

[Big Panda]

Didn’t Microsoft have plans for the original Xbox to play Dreamcast games that fell through?

[azoo]

1 hour ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

But let's not go into that old debate again. This entire scenario is neat, but dont you think that Sega would be better off working with Sony rather than Microsoft? Especially since that have a longer track record of doing so for their arcade stuff?

In this timeline, at the very least, that bird has flown. They honestly could've got together and made the PlayStation back when Sony approached them, sure, but considering the history of overwhelmingly inflated egos of both companies I'm not sure how it would've fared. Sega probably would've lasted roughly the same time there as they did in our timeline (with Sony either absorbing them or moving on entirely); but there's also always the chance they could've succeeded. Overwhelmingly so, in fact.

It's definitely been something I've thought about too, either way. lol

 

1 hour ago, Tornado said:

So you combine the 700 million dollars or so that Sega lost on the Dreamcast, with the 7 or so billion dollars that Microsoft lost on the original XBox?

Of course. 

After all, as you mentioned; Microsoft was and continues to be willing to throw a bunch of money down the drain on Xbox. Microsoft isn't really here solely for profit (that being the point of capitalism aside), they kinda want to just stake their claim in the industry and be a respected figure. That's why I think they should've teamed up, honestly!

Sega earned their respect back to many; they just couldn't stand a chance to Goliath. And while it's fair for MS to try to give it their own shot to be more respectable as a video game company, hindsight is 20/20.. so yeah. I do believe it would've done both sides good.

2 hours ago, Tracker_TD said:

A bit late for that when SA2 was arguably the start of that meltdown - I mean, look at Heroes 

Would hardly call SA2 the start of a meltdown as much as the end of an era. But that's fully dependent on your glass being half full or not, and is a discussion neither here nor there.

[Wraith]

Sonic Heroes is fucking horrible on every platform and it's common knowledge that it's horrible because they were struggling with their very first multiplatform release. It's easy to see it being better with one platform to focus on and not 3.

For the sake of this discussion, the meltdown starts there and not at the polished SA2 port for the gamecube. 

[Rabid-Coot]

1 hour ago, Tornado said:

The idea of an XBox expansion for Dreamcast is absolutely insane; but Microsoft didn't blink an eye at losing billions of dollars on the original XBox. Microsoft happily wrote a check for RRoD that wiped out any overall profit the 360 had a chance of making. Microsoft, in a distant third on the market in this console generation, is happily plugging away for the next generation and doesn't care that they aren't making the most money because they are still making a lot now.

They've also killed underperforming lines before. I'm just thinking being attached to an already underperforming brand would have tipped things the wrong way too soon.

[azoo]

24 minutes ago, Rabid-Coot said:

They've also killed underperforming lines before. I'm just thinking being attached to an already underperforming brand would have tipped things the wrong way too soon.

So under the chance it goes south like that (considering Sega's software was championed even in it's time of strife, I doubt it), we get one of three conclusions:

1 ) Microsoft DOESN'T at that time own Sega and just drops them. Sega is back to third party, we're back where we started.

2 ) Microsoft DOES at the time own Sega but pawns off the company & IPs to start fresh. Sony and various other companies split the bill for a lot of their franchises. Nintendo scoops up Sonic Team, inherits the earth. (Very unlikely time-thread here)

3 ) Microsoft DOES at that time own Sega and DOES hoard the IPs. Sonic and co probably remain dead in a vault, erasing a good 15+ years of Sonic fans from having to have ever suffered (and if they bring it back, they probably fail, and it goes back in the vault). The remaining IPs remain dead just like we have in our timeline.

S'all good.

[Tracker_TD]

18 minutes ago, azoo said:

Microsoft DOES at that time own Sega and DOES hoard the IPs. Sonic and co probably remain dead in a vault, erasing a good 15+ years of Sonic fans from having to have ever suffered (and if they bring it back, they probably fail, and it goes back in the vault). The remaining IPs remain dead just like we have in our timeline.

I feel like you're kind of forgetting SEGA isn't just some aimless husk nowadays. Yakuza is going hella strong and having a huge shake-up with 7, Valkyria exists, Puyo is back, Space Channel's making a comeback, even PSO2 is finally coming here, Sakura Wars is hitting a revival, they seem to be gearing up for the same with Monkey Ball, Project DIVA has them covered in rhythm games, and M2 are the best around in handling the old stuff. Oh, and even giving indie studios a chance with their IPs - Sonic Mania goes without saying, but so does Wonder Boy and Streets of Rage IV. And they have Atlus content now too! 

Like... it's one thing to be laser-focused on the DC era that you clearly have a lot of nostalgia for, and that's fine I guess, but SEGA 2019 is more than just bad 3D Sonic games. Just because Jet Set Radio hasn't come back doesn't mean SEGA's dead. 

[azoo]

Sure, but I also would've preferred going through a time where we didn't have to be disappointed and sad for a long time before getting the slow momentum crawl back up to competence.

Doesn't help that many of the franchises I like from Sega aren't even in their grasp anymore; we're lucky to get Panzer, TJ&E and SoR revivals from indie outfits because Sega cared just little enough to let them take them on their own without even a word of support or acknowledgement beyond "go on". Sure, the results have been good and that's great, but well..

The company with a software legacy second only to Nintendo is (bar a bite-sized handful of exceptions) now the niche of the niche. That kinda sucks, no? It's fun to dream of a world where that didn't happen, and that's why my argument persists.

[Tracker_TD]

As long as the games are good, I’m really not arsed how “niche” it is. God knows Fighting Vipers 3 isn’t happening but I still adore that series just fine. What you wanted is a change in market perceptions, that I don’t think would have been facilitated just by SEGA sticking around in consoles. The market conditions are shifting slowly back to catering for those with nostalgia for this era now like yourself, hence the resurgence. 

 

Likewise, SEGA may not be super hands on with TJ&E and etc, but they exist and as far as I’m aware they’re still good - so I fail to see the issue with handing properties back to their creators beyond the optics of SEGA being a ‘superpower’, which I don’t think is as important as just making good games. Which I think right now, SEGA do. 

[azoo]

Again, the idea is just entertaining the notion that there could've been a timeline where one didn't have to crawl through the bog to get to the better place first. That's really the be all end all of it.

[Tracker_TD]

19 minutes ago, azoo said:

Again, the idea is just entertaining the notion that there could've been a timeline where one didn't have to crawl through the bog to get to the better place first. That's really the be all end all of it.

The thing is, having a console in of itself wouldn't magically change the market perceptions that stopped SEGA making these games. It'd just lead less people to buy their console over the others, and so they'd arguably be in a worse position, especially in the outcome that Microsoft just Banjo'd their IP - which is not how it is with SEGA today. This is bearing in mind SEGA's actually existing Xbox exclusives evidently do much good either, as great as they may have been. In a perfect world, good games get good sales, but that's not how it is - IIRC, Peter Moore said part of the reason he had to literally tell Naka to fuck off at the end of the DC's life is because Naka was too stubborn to realise Sonic didn't have a stranglehold over its demographic anymore. Tying that to a new expensive piece of hardware wouldn't fix that, I don't think. 

It's not like SEGA even went completely dead over the noughties either, though admittedly their best output usually stayed in Japan - but Puyo Fever got ported to everything and Phantasy Star continued to actually get releases, as an example. Compared to the long term plan here of SEGA's IPs probably dying eventually anyway, I don't mind the bog as much. 

[azoo]

If Sonic didn't have the same strange-hold over it's demographic anymore we wouldn't be here on SSMB, and neither would Sonic still be a persistent, if not downright controversial, subject. 

I get it. You see a lot of value in modern Sega stuff, and consider yourself a connoisseur on the subject (and for all intents, you are). I'm someone who sat through the thick of it looking for the light at the end of the tunnel, and despite seeing and experiencing the middling ups I kinda had to live with seeing the miserable downs too. And while those evened out for your tastes, it didn't for mine! It still has yet to, and I honestly am not sure if it ever will again for me. For all I know, it won't!

I think ultimately we just have our interests in different places.

[Tracker_TD]

The thing I don't get is like... Streets of Rage, Space Channel, Puyo, PSO, Sakura Wars, Monkey Ball (EDIT: Panzer Dragoon! House of the Dead! I keep thinking of more stuff!). Even Daytona USA! A lot of the 'modern' SEGA stuff is just old SEGA stuff, revived and brought into modern times and, in my outlook, with surprisingly few compromises made. I feel like unless you're really specifically gunning for a specific title such as Skies of Arcadia 2 or god forbid, Sonic Adventure 3, I feel like SEGA's doing what they can to bring back their old stuff while still keeping it relevant, such as updating Sakura Wars into a full-on action RPG. But if that just feels like nostalgia milking, newer series like Yakuza still feel like positive spins on stuff from their heyday - up until 7 which is obviously going for the RPG shake-up, the series was building on what was good about SpikeOut. Same devs, innit. I think at least giving them a shake is fair. Even Project DIVA, which gets a bad rep as "just Japanese idol trash" or something, is a really competent rhythm game with a lot of design I find very in keeping with SEGA's old style - and I guess that makes sense because Mirai and DIVA Arcade/Megamix are by AM2. 

I'd have been singing a different tune many years ago, especially being in Europe; but I dunno what SEGA could really be doing now that's feasible beyond extremely specific requests that aren't necessarily easy to fulfil. Sakura Wars coming West is already crazy enough to me, let alone PSO2 after all this time. Hilariously, their biggest Achilles heel right now is their own mascot!  

I obviously can't force you to like any of these series, but it felt a bit dismissive to just brush off Modern SEGA like that, that's all. 

[azoo]

The Sega I was deep into was Sonic, NiGHTS, Jet Set Radio, Skies of Arcadia, Phantasy Star Online, Panzer Dragoon, Rez, all of that.

I'm glad they're finding their footing again, I really am. But the majority of the stuff I enjoyed from Sega at my height of love for them is stuff that either is never coming back or will never reach where I once saw them. I'm not a big fan of the direction PSO2 took visually or presentation-wise at all, for one. Panzer remake looks iffy (though I'm remaining optimistic). Rez was that 'arthouse' direction the Dreamcast oozed of that could've kept evolving but was ousted. NiGHTS, JSR and Skies are my biggest loves outside of Sonic for Sega and none of them will ever return (amongst other one-offs like Billy Hatcher etc). And Sonic.. oh, Sonic.

The other series I'm glad exist, and I'm glad they're thriving. But none of them encapsulate what Sega was for me, and what Sega was in general for a period of time. The particular Sega that caught me, and then subsequently died overnight.

It's good they're getting their footing back, but that isn't the Sega I knew. That particular spirit and aesthetic for the company is long gone. It's becoming reacquainted with itself bit by bit, sure, but the days Sega sent my heart soaring and not feeling trepidation and sadness have been over for a very long time. And I kinda wish I didn't have to feel it through that lens these days!

But you know, that's fine I guess. Maybe this topic was a place to vent that more than anything. A looking-glass to see how people who once saw them in a greater light didn't end up feeling so bad.

[Tracker_TD]

I think this is ultimately just a personal thing then. Yakuza is very much cut from the same charm-laden cloth as something like Jet Set Radio, just in a different way. Same for stuff like DIVA, or Sakura Wars. I struggle to say "what SEGA was in general", but what "SEGA was for you", sure. 

NiGHTS might get its due soon, anywho - that AIR NiGHTS thing is just sitting there, menacingly

[azoo]

Sega during the period I look back to was a time when they were especially artsy and experimental with their IPs.

It probably wasn't meant to last, but it was definitely a time that would oft put aside or compromise financial stability for the sake of making something more risky; usually driven by passion and a drive to make the most of the hardware/image they had at the time.

Whether Sega is getting better or not, they're not back to that and probably won't ever be. Most of the current things they do are fairly safe; Yakuza is a wacky GTA-like, Diva runs on the Vocaloid brand to sell, Sakura Wars is a hype beast (that they admittedly should've been doing more with long ago), and (despite great jobs with emulations/ports from M2) honking the Genesis nostalgia horn isn't anything new or profound. And Sonic is.. god only knows at this point.

And while Sega handing their IPs away to other companies with no commitment could be seen as a glass-half-full way of letting them exist as arts on their own merits, it also can be read as Sega caring so little to do anything with any form of legacy or tact that they'd rather hand them off to people who would do such (all with no association.. they own the IPs and yet won't even put their name by the products!).

..Then there's a quick port of what's considered the worst Monkey Ball game with a classic Sonic skin added in from lack of trust in the product's standalone appeal..

Making games as bizarre and unconventional as NiGHTS, Rez, SC5 etc wasn't safe. Making an entire quadrilogy of wild ass rail shooters about dragons on consoles no-one bought wasn't safe. Revolutionary barrier-breaking with the first PSO wasn't safe. Turning the extreme sports genre inside out on it's head with a passion-driven case study while basically all but saying "FUCK COPS" with JSR wasn't safe. Putting Sonic through the ringer of crazy, headstrong decisions with a team of way-too-ambitious-for-their-own-good developers wasn't safe. Throwing millions too many on a game as clumsy, clunky and forward-thinking as Shenmue wasn't safe.

It just ain't the same Sega, man.

The heart might still be there deep down, but you gotta squint for it. They can't afford to be passionate anymore, barring Yakuza probably. SC5VR is a little glimpse of that desire deep in there to throw caution to the wind, though. I appreciate it.

But yeah, all the same. That's why I think about how it could've went so much. 

[Tracker_TD]

Yeah, but as nice as throwing all that caution to the wind was - the Dreamcast died. Shenmue bombed. I can understand playing it safe when they're a much smaller company than they were, and even then I think you're underselling Yakuza a hell of a lot if "GTA but wacky" is your only take away from it. Like... that's the most tired, played out comparison for Yakuza, and if it were so safe the series wouldn't have outright died in the West for several years before its resurgence. And you also skimmed well over the continuing Puyo series, where they've been leaning even harder into their hardcore, competitive crowd, or even Valkyria! As well as them actually continuing arcade development for their legacy franchises - I didn't expect an actual, canonical sequel in the House of the Dead series in 2019, that let us finally face the "Mystery Man" teased all those years ago in III and IV, but there you go, Scarlet Dawn! 

You might not like these games, but pretending the IP-driven spirit of SEGA isn't there just because it's not specifically what you want just comes off as too dismissive. I don't even like Valkryia myself, as I'm not an SRPG kind of person - but these games are acclaimed by both their fans and critics. Same with Project DIVA just being well-received because "it's Vocaloid" - by your logic, I could say all the hype around the original PSO was just "wow, I can play this Dreamcast game online!" Or that Rez' hype was "man listen to this soundtrack", or "this game has a vibrator". The only main difference here is you don't have nostalgia for Yakuza, or Valkyria. And again, if SEGA cared so little about Streets of Rage IV and what have you - those projects just wouldn't exist, like the countless JSR reboot attempts from external companies. Or even their own internal ones - even back on the Dreamcast Streets of Rage IV got canned! 

[azoo]

This topic pretty quickly went from “what fun things might’ve happened if this such and such timeline happened, let’s discuss different timelines” to “how dare you not like what we currently have, with your nostalgia and all that” and lemme tell ya! That sucks, bud.

Especially since nostalgia is part of the whole crux of the conversation, yes. Like it’s not some “gottem” that wills the convo as a flawed or moot one. Congrats you like things about this era that I don’t..? Cool? 

[Tracker_TD]

As I said, it’s not about whether you like it or not. I don’t like Valkyria. That doesn’t mean I brush it off as “not real SEGA” with flimsy “Yakuza is just GTA” comparisons that hilariously misunderstand how Yakuza actually plays and its narrative. Because if nothing else, I at least tried Valkyria. And you don’t have to do that - no point spending money for something you might not like. But you’re not even giving these newer IPs a chance, when original IP was what SEGA did best. And they’re continuing to do well with. 

Your reasoning is as flimsy as “PSO is just liked because it was online”, is my point. Hence the nostalgia card. 

[Tornado]

Yakuza is a direct extension of the things Shenmue was doing, but with the things that the genre has done since then taken into account. It is repeatedly lauded for not just being GTA, when similar games (Sleeping Dogs comes to mind immediately) are not given that benefit.

 

 

 

Though honestly at this point I'm wondering what the point of this topic even is.