Chili Dogs

[JezMM]

I love the chilli dogs triumphant return to mainstream Sonic-lore. Sonic's psychotic obsession with chilli dogs is one of the aspects of AoStH that i have the strongest memories of. I so badly wanted try a chilli dog myself when i was 7, but i never got to.

...come to think of it, i still haven't eaten a chilli dog! Not once in my life! That's it, im going out of my way to find a chilli dog and eat it TODAY! My childhood dream is finally going to come true! Wish me luck!

My first chilli dog was at the grand ole age of 18 one drunken night out at Uni, and it was very dissapointing... just a hot dog with some... spicy sauce stuff in it. Filled the hole on the way home at 1am, but nothing more...

Nowadays I celebrate each new Sonic release by having chilli dogs for lunch. I make them myself by buying hot dogs, a can of chilli con carne, some tortilla chips and sour cream. Fitting all this into a hot dog bun is pretty tricky, and very messy to eat, but yummy. <3

The Chilli dogs in Black Knight, slathered in chilli con carne AND jalepenos? Sonic's got a stronger tongue than I.

Spicy stuff and junk food does suit Sonic mind you. He needs a lot to burn off I guess.

Edited August 29, 2009 by JezMM

[Arrow]

As far as i am concerned, robotization IS canon, because i dont differenate that much between actually turning organic beings into robots (like for instance SatAM Robotnik did) or trapping them inside robots (like game Eggman does). It's all "robotization" to me, even if the games dont actually use that word (kept for Chronicles). And even though the fact that the animals that gets turned into robots in the games are also being brainwashed into following Eggman's orders isn't exactly given as much emphasis as in SatAM, it is still exactly what happens to them, as Gammas story in SA showed us. Some people say that Gammas mind wasn't actually that of the bird inside him, and that the bird was nothing but an organic battery, but if that's the case, then how did Gamma experince the birds memories?

So yeah, robotization is an element in the game universe as well, even if it's not called by that name. It's only a shame that Eggman never actaully makes use of it anymore. The plot of the first game in the series revolved almost entirely around Eggman's robotization scheme, and it was a major part of the other 2D-era game as well. Then when Sonic Adventure came out, it suddenly seemed like Sonic and the gang simply didn't care about saving their animal friends from Eggman's slavery anymore. But at least that game still put the robotization in the spotlight through Gammas story. But as the series continued into the new m

Edited August 29, 2009 by Arrow

[Dr. Mechano]

Gamma's mind was affected by the bird. It was not the bird itself.

Sonic Shuffle even said that Gamma had been "revived" with "the power of dreams." If Gamma and the bird were the same consciousness, then Gamma would need no revival.

Gamma, incidentally, is probably the reason Eggman stopped using animal power sources- Considering one Flickey caused such a huge deviation in Gamma's original programming, the gradual shift to rings and undetermined power sources is a logical one. If power sources aren't alive, they won't affect the thoughts of your (mostly) loyal robot minions.

I like the idea that anything organic is good whilst anything (Egg)man-made is evil. That distinction was nice, and important, and now it's pretty much gone like you said.

That distinction was extremely patronizing. I've always found grey morality more interesting than black and white.

The fact that Eggman (and his robots) are capable of expressing good traits is a strength, not a weakness. It adds complexity to their characterization, rather than setting Eggman up as a "strawman human" in an idealized animal world, projected as an unrealistically-evil character.

Going farther than that, Sonic was never an anti-technology series, so the idea that "anything man-made"(by Eggman or otherwise) is evil sounds preposterous. Sonic CD is an excellent example of this- The bad futures have decrepit, rustic, neglected technology. But the good futures also have advanced technology- The difference being said technology is clean, pristine, and blends seamlessly with nature. In other words, Sonic was never a series that opposed technological progress, especially considering said progress was portrayed in a very positive light as early as Sonic CD.

EDIT: Also, "anything organic is good?" You're kidding yourself. Even in the classic series, Grand Battle Kuku and his army of ducks(?) were fully organic. And let's not forget Witchcart and her band of fairytale-esque creatures. These were two entirely-organic factions of villains. What say you to them?

Edited August 29, 2009 by Dr. Mechano

[Phos]

Since when did popcorn enemies need characterization?

When it comes to Robotnik himself, that's a bit more tricky of an issue. I don't think the Sonic franchise is really cut out for grey morality, I think it should be pretty obvious that Robotnik is partaking in nefarious deeds, but remaining not especially violent in his means. I really only find grey morality that interesting when it isn't obvious who the villain is.

[Dr. Mechano]

Since when did popcorn enemies need characterization?

When it comes to Robotnik himself, that's a bit more tricky of an issue. I don't think the Sonic franchise is really cut out for grey morality, I think it should be pretty obvious that Robotnik is partaking in nefarious deeds, but remaining not especially violent in his means. I really only find grey morality that interesting when it isn't obvious who the villain is.

Yeah, but Sonic's an idealized, optimistic series- At least the games are. At least in the Japanese storyline.

And being an idealized sort of series, the idea that almost everyone has some good in them (to varying extents) is a refreshing constant. In the more cynical SatAM, sure, Robotnik is pure evil and has no sign of any redeeming qualities- It's a grittier world with a darker stance on things.

By "grey" morality, I don't assert that Eggman's not villainous, or that he's a hero, or anything. He's definitely a villain, and definitely a bad guy- But despite that, I feel he truly has good in him deep down, and I feel this strengthens his character, and fits very well with the upbeat and hopeful tone of the idealistic, optimistic game series.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Dr. Mechano

[SuperStingray]

Gamma's mind was affected by the bird. It was not the bird itself.

There's no official evidence on either side, but I think it's far more likely that Eggman uses animals as more than just a basic power source. Otherwise, it would just be simpler to use plants like in Sonic CD. Plus, if the bird was only to be a living battery, there would be no need to make it so the bird can influence Gamma, let alone use its senses.

Sonic Shuffle even said that Gamma had been "revived" with "the power of dreams." If Gamma and the bird were the same consciousness, then Gamma would need no revival.

Gamma and the bird are two different entities, but just because Gamma ran used this power of dreams to run in shuffle doesn't mean that the bird didn't act as Gamma's consciousness in the first place.

[Badnik Zero]

Anyone have chili recipes? I've got a great one somewhere, but I'm open to suggestions.

[KittyNakajima]

Personally, I'm pretty indifferent towards the chili dogs being referenced in the games. They've only what? Mentioned it in a manual for one game while featuring them in passing in two recent game titles. Not the end of the world really. And if anything probably a nice nod to early 90's Sonic media at best.

However, I'd like to think that he ate a variety of fast food/other things given the emphasis of some foods in Sonic Unleashed. Besides the chocolate and ice cream Chip tried a lot of different foods and Sonic (based on some cute cut scenes) was right there with him trying them too. So in that respect I don't mind the chili dogs since it's more feasible it's a favorite as opposed to a solid diet like they were portrayed in AoStH, SatAM, SU, etc.

Plus, on top of that, I'd also expect that depending on what other toppings/how spicy/savoury/bean saturated the chili was he wouldn't be eating them on the regular unless he had an iron stomach. Especially the latter - I've had chili dogs before and depending on those conditions it was either nothing or a ticket to the nearest toilet. But moreso I'm basing this experience on being an avid fan of Johnny Rocket's chili cheese fries - one order of those usually has me tooting before I'm out of the restaurant. XD

[Rusty Spy]

Anyone have chili recipes? I've got a great one somewhere, but I'm open to suggestions.

Can I see that recipe you've got?

As for Sonic and Chili Dogs, I love that Sonic has some more to give him some identity. Just hope that they don't over due it beyond what they've established right now, as an inside reference, rather than blatantly in your face, like seeing him eating one every few cutscenes.

Edited August 30, 2009 by VirgoTheCougar

[Arrow]

I like the idea that anything organic is good whilst anything (Egg)man-made is evil. That distinction was nice, and important, and now it's pretty much gone like you said.

That distinction was extremely patronizing. I've always found grey morality more interesting than black and white.

The fact that Eggman (and his robots) are capable of expressing good traits is a strength, not a weakness. It adds complexity to their characterization, rather than setting Eggman up as a "strawman human" in an idealized animal world, projected as an unrealistically-evil character.

Going farther than that, Sonic was never an anti-technology series, so the idea that "anything man-made"(by Eggman or otherwise) is evil sounds preposterous. Sonic CD is an excellent example of this- The bad futures have decrepit, rustic, neglected technology. But the good futures also have advanced technology- The difference being said technology is clean, pristine, and blends seamlessly with nature. In other words, Sonic was never a series that opposed technological progress, especially considering said progress was portrayed in a very positive light as early as Sonic CD.

EDIT: Also, "anything organic is good?" You're kidding yourself. Even in the classic series, Grand Battle Kuku and his army of ducks(?) were fully organic. And let's not forget Witchcart and her band of fairytale-esque creatures. These were two entirely-organic factions of villains. What say you to them?

It looks like you were personally offended by my comments. But I'm going to assume I've misunderstood because that seems silly... But words like "patronizing" and "preposterous" are very passionate?

I never said Sonic was anti anything. That's far too extreme. You're actually making it more black and white than I meant... We're a long time past the war by the stage Sonic was created and whilst It was far from forgotten about, the Anime and such which worked at rebuilding the Japanese's trust in technology is a thing of the past by Sonic's time. I don't think it's a series that is for or against technology. I just said that the enemies in Sonic should be robots, because it's a nice distinction, because building robots is what ROBOTnik does and he's the villain. That's all I meant by the distinction I simply said I do not like organic bad guys in the series, and whilst I didn't explain why initially, the reason is that that Sonic's methods of dispatching enemies work with robots without seemingly silly.

I had to google "Grand Battle Kukku". I've never played Tail's Adventure.

[Dr. Mechano]

It looks like you were personally offended by my comments. But I'm going to assume I've misunderstood because that seems silly... But words like "patronizing" and "preposterous" are very passionate?

I didn't call you patronizing. I called that approach to storytelling patronizing. It presents an insultingly simple picture of "Animals good. Man and his scary machines bad. No exceptions!"

I never said Sonic was anti anything. That's far too extreme. You're actually making it more black and white than I meant... We're a long time past the war by the stage Sonic was created and whilst It was far from forgotten about, the Anime and such which worked at rebuilding the Japanese's trust in technology is a thing of the past by Sonic's time. I don't think it's a series that is for or against technology. I just said that the enemies in Sonic should be robots, because it's a nice distinction, because building robots is what ROBOTnik does and he's the villain. That's all I meant by the distinction I simply said I do not like organic bad guys in the series, and whilst I didn't explain why initially, the reason is that that Sonic's methods of dispatching enemies work with robots without seemingly silly.

I had to google "Grand Battle Kukku". I've never played Tail's Adventure.

My point in mentioning Grand Battle Kukku and Witchcart, though, was to demonstrate that even in the old games there were organic villains. Also, Fang the Sniper counts as a villain who was very much organic. And of course, despite using robots, Eggman himself is organic too obviously.

Similarly, there are good robots... Well, there were good robots. It seems that whenever a robot becomes good (Gamma, Emerl) they inevitably get destroyed. I'm not willing to call Omega "good" yet, since his motivation is vengeance rather than something truly heroic, but Gamma and Emerl can probably be considered examples of good robots at least.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Dr. Mechano

[Jix Hedgehog]

He's gotta eat something.. and he didn't seem interested in the " Chocolatea chippu sundae"

[SuperStingray]

I didn't call you patronizing. I called that approach to storytelling patronizing. It presents an insultingly simple picture of "Animals good. Man and his scary machines bad. No exceptions!"

Yeah I'm with you; that whole approach just feels one-dimensional and shallow. It's part of the reason I like the anti-hero anthros like Shadow and Fang and good humans like Maria and GUN.

[Dr. Mechano]

Yeah I'm with you; that whole approach just feels one-dimensional and shallow. It's part of the reason I like the anti-hero anthros like Shadow and Fang and good humans like Maria and GUN.

Fang wasn't really an antihero. He stole, to get rich, to benefit himself, but unlike Shadow never really did anything good to balance it out.

I'd call him a minor villain if anything. Otherwise I agree with you.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Dr. Mechano

[Rusty Spy]

Fang wasn't really an antihero. He stole, to get rich, to benefit himself, but unlike Shadow never really did anything good to balance it out.

I'd call him a minor villain if anything. Otherwise I agree with you.

Well, he was sort of an anti-hero in the sense that he was mainly neutral and only did things for himself, whether they be good or bad, but whatever.

[Dr. Mechano]

Well, he was sort of an anti-hero in the sense that he was mainly neutral and only did things for himself, whether they be good or bad, but whatever.

Stealing is kind of bad on the morality scale.

[SchemingMinor]

I didn't call you patronizing. I called that approach to storytelling patronizing. It presents an insultingly simple picture of "Animals good. Man and his scary machines bad. No exceptions!"

I agree with this. Anyone who grew up in the late 1980's through the 1990's knows this stereotype too well. The whole concept with "Humans bad! Animals good!" was used in our generation to drill home propaganda with saving the rainforest, condemning people not to pollute, ect. in order to instill a sense of "morality" of warped facts into the next generation (which by the way, most of the "facts" were exaggerated bits of data). While the concept and message was instilled with good intentions, these stereotypes sickened anyone back in the time who now grew up on seeing humans as just creatures. Examples of this can be seen in some of the various movies and after-school specials (remember kiddies, Winners Don't Use Drugs!) dotted through the time. Seeing that Sonic emerged with this era, naturally they would later think of some bone-headed way to translate the reason why the "evil mean scientist" is putting those animals in robots and match the over-hyped aura to go with it in the media forms. Needless to say it is the American/European translation that I have seen take this image with Robotnik and run with it, and thankfully it is no more in the games or with anything else for the matter.

So good riddance.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Kintobor

[Dr. Mechano]

saving the rainforest, condemning people not to pollute, ect.

Well, don't get me wrong.

I think pollution is bad. But all the same, the intentionally environmental message of SatAM was skewed and didn't really make sense.

1. Humans pollute because they're technologically able to pollute.

2. Humanized animals are functionally the same as humans.

3. Therefore, using a human villain as the only source of pollution ever in an all-animal world, where the animals are functionally human, is stupid. It's not like Robotnik's humanity makes him more prone to pollution, because in this case, the animals have the same potential to misuse their technology and cause environmental disasters too.

The bottom line is, SatAM Robotnik is an extremely poor representation for humanity when the entire cast can be considered functionally human. Therefore it sends a weird idea that, even if other species were sentient, that humans would hold a monopoly on pollution and destruction. Logically, if real animals had the same capacity for thought that we did, they'd be just as environmentally problematic as we are. Hence why SatAM's environmental aesopp falls flat on its face!

Edited August 30, 2009 by Dr. Mechano

[SchemingMinor]

Well, don't get me wrong.

I think pollution is bad. But all the same, the intentionally environmental message of SatAM was skewed and didn't really make sense.

1. Humans pollute because they're technologically able to pollute.

2. Humanized animals are functionally the same as humans.

3. Therefore, using a human villain as the only source of pollution ever in an all-animal world, where the animals are functionally human, is stupid. It's not like Robotnik's humanity makes him more prone to pollution, because in this case, the animals have the same potential to misuse their technology and cause environmental disasters too.

The bottom line is, SatAM Robotnik is an extremely poor representation for humanity when the entire cast can be considered functionally human. Therefore it sends a weird idea that, even if other species were sentient, that humans would hold a monopoly on pollution and destruction. Logically, if real animals had the same capacity for thought that we did, they'd be just as environmentally problematic as we are. Hence why SatAM's environmental aesopp falls flat on its face!

Exactly. And with the intelligence and the similar resources that the anthropomorphs are accessible to, I can safely say that they probably had a hand in a lot of this mess as well. One wonders where the trash to Mobotropolis went to all of these years before Julian's iron-fisted run. Again, yay stereotypes and all.

[Eternal EX]

Exactly. And with the intelligence and the similar resources that the anthropomorphs are accessible to, I can safely say that they probably had a hand in a lot of this mess as well. One wonders where the trash to Mobotropolis went to all of these years before Julian's iron-fisted run. Again, yay stereotypes and all.

Just wondering.... what does this have to do with chili dogs?

And to comment on the REAL TOPIC...I dont really care as long as the game is fun. Chili dogs popped up in Sonic unleashed and it wasnt a big deal to me. Hell the game could be based around a chili dog....Eggman's monster of the week could be a super size hot dog for all I care. Just as long as ST makes the game fun and that boss battle creative and interesting....not like Dark gaia or any of the storybook tales' bosses.

[Miko]

Boooooo, I say! Boo!

As someone who unabashedly prefers the Japanese image of the series, the introduction of chilidogs- while innocuous enough alone- makes me worried that we'll start seeing robotization, Eggman with red eyes, and other cartoon/comic elements I detest so much.

You know, I happen to think people who would baaaw over something as trivial as Sonic liking chili dogs to be way too purist for their own good. And no, unlike some people might've I did not throw the weeabo card so please no one mistake my arguement as such (only saying this now, before anybody does).

PS. IIRC you can actually see chili dogs in the Casino Night Zone.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Miko

[Greg the Fancat]

Going farther than that, Sonic was never an anti-technology series, so the idea that "anything man-made"(by Eggman or otherwise) is evil sounds preposterous. Sonic CD is an excellent example of this- The bad futures have decrepit, rustic, neglected technology. But the good futures also have advanced technology- The difference being said technology is clean, pristine, and blends seamlessly with nature. In other words, Sonic was never a series that opposed technological progress, especially considering said progress was portrayed in a very positive light as early as Sonic CD.

Somebody called for Mobotropolis?

Edited August 30, 2009 by GREG THE CAT

[Arrow]

I didn't call you patronizing. I called that approach to storytelling patronizing. It presents an insultingly simple picture of "Animals good. Man and his scary machines bad. No exceptions!"

No I didn't mean you were addressing me. It's just a passionate word regardless. But, yea, I think you really exagerated what I said into black and white. Anyway. I've explained. You've explained. The end.

[Marcello]

I like that Sonics eating Chili Dogs. I loved the intro of SatBK.

You know they could now bring back Knuckles favorite food being grapes. It'd be like "Eat Grapes, then you can break rocks!"

[AdventChild]

Chili dogs don't really hold much significance to the franchise or the games enough for me to care, and I don't really mind much about it anyways. It's Sonic's favorite food, so what? Well, it could only be for nostalgia and for comic effect such as the opening of SATBK, but doesn't contribute much to anything.