Will Shadow ever live down his reputation as an edgelord?

[ShadowSJG]

It's been 13 years since Shadow the Hedgehog and yet, Shadow is still labelled as being edgy. To be fair, that game is the only one where he reached edgelord status. In other games, he hasn't really acted like that all. In his debut, his character is no darker than Mewtwo at all. So do you think Shadow will ever live down his edgelord reputation?

[Rabid-Coot]

Its what he was created to be.

[JezMM]

Nope!  Next question.

 

 

Real talk, they'd need to do a new story that has a big enough focus on him to allow him to develop and not just be a one-note "I'm the serious, unsocial one", character which is what he's become in recent games.  It'd need to be of such a high calibur of narrative and accompanied by a game worth playing that word would spread of "No, seriously, everyone should play this one!  It's fun and the story really goes some places, like, they actually make Shadow of all characters likeable and stuff, trust me, seriously, play it!" to get enough people playing it.  It would have to be an absolute hit.  Then, and only then, would it stand even a chance of "undoing" Shadow's place in video game culture and the damage that Shadow the Hedgehog (and its promotional material) did.

I don't see Sonic Team attempting such a project, let alone succeeding, which brings us back to... Nope!

[SaturnWolf]

If they ever have him star in a story where that's not his sole role, then maybe? Otherwise, it's hard to move on from that kind of thing when that's what he was in the stories where he was the sole focus.

[Kuzu]

Considering that his entire character is meant to be a no-nonsense foil to Sonic, nope. 

 

Contrary to popular belief though, people DO like Shadow as that overly serious archetype, even if he gets mocked for it a lot.

[MetalSkulkBane]

Yes, when Sega makes a really game with good story that focuses on Shadow and shows him as cool, yet complex characters.

...I guess I meant "no".

[StaticMania]

Nope, and it's only because he's black...because of his color scheme which people will label anything with it as edgy.

People will never forget that game: ShtH

[SBR2]

Unpopular Opinion but even though I don't hate him or anything Shadow has never been particularly interesting. 

Outside of his tragic backstory he's never really had much going for him IMHO.

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, JezMM said:

Nope!  Next question.

 

 

Real talk, they'd need to do a new story that has a big enough focus on him to allow him to develop and not just be a one-note "I'm the serious, unsocial one", character which is what he's become in recent games.  It'd need to be of such a high calibur of narrative and accompanied by a game worth playing that word would spread of "No, seriously, everyone should play this one!  It's fun and the story really goes some places, like, they actually make Shadow of all characters likeable and stuff, trust me, seriously, play it!" to get enough people playing it.  It would have to be an absolute hit.  Then, and only then, would it stand even a chance of "undoing" Shadow's place in video game culture and the damage that Shadow the Hedgehog (and its promotional material) did.

I don't see Sonic Team attempting such a project, let alone succeeding, which brings us back to... Nope!

I think that game will be made

And then, they wont realize why people like it and subsequently fuck it up in future games

The sonic team way

1 hour ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

 

Contrary to popular belief though, people DO like Shadow as that overly serious archetype, even if he gets mocked for it a lot.

This, its why so many people like him.

[Wraith]

2 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Considering that his entire character is meant to be a no-nonsense foil to Sonic, nope. 

 

Contrary to popular belief though, people DO like Shadow as that overly serious archetype, even if he gets mocked for it a lot.

Yeah there's like a silent majority of fans that likes him the way he is

There's like a large swathe of the gaming populous that take jabs at shadow but otherwise don't really care about the franchise

And there are the insecure fans that are paranoid that sonic's reputation is being harmed by shadow's existence due to the above memers

There's not really any point in seriously reevaluating his character. Just...not doing anything really silly or outrageous anymore would kind of sort the "situation" that is people making fun of silly hedgehog game out by itself. Or maybe it won't. It's not a big deal either way.

[ShadowSJG]

He's serious but it doesn't mean he's edgy. Vegeta is serious, not edgy, same with Mewtwo

[Razule]

No. It's a meme. Shadow the Hedgehog happened, and it can't un-happen. Even outside of ShtH is backstory is uncharacteristically edgy for the series, and that's just his personality.

[Shadowlax]

8 hours ago, Wraith said:

Yeah there's like a silent majority of fans that likes him the way he is

There's like a large swathe of the gaming populous that take jabs at shadow but otherwise don't really care about the franchise

 

There's another large swath of the gaming populous who genuinely like shadow but just make jokes. People who I didn't even expect to be upset were upset shadow was an assist trophy in smash. Though I would say time away from shadow being in a lot of things may have helped that group of people.

He's a cool character, and I can't speak for the gaming populous as a whole, nor do I want to. But I feel like we have kind of left the " meta " era and have returned into the " Go on and take your silly bullshit seriously " era again. These two era's sort of switch in art and I feel like we have reeled back into that one.

8 hours ago, Wraith said:

And there are the insecure fans that are paranoid that sonic's reputation is being harmed by shadow's existence due to the above memers

They should be more worried about bad video games, because shadow was gone/less important for minute. That didn't stop the bad video games.

8 hours ago, Wraith said:

There's not really any point in seriously reevaluating his character. Just...not doing anything really silly or outrageous anymore would kind of sort the "situation" that is people making fun of silly hedgehog game out by itself. Or maybe it won't. It's not a big deal either way.

That's where I'm at with a lot of sonic stuff as a whole, sonic team should focus on quality and the people who like which ever sonic you are making will find the product. The people obsessed about sonic was bad one time, can have fun with that. Everyone else will have moved on.

[MadmanRB]

Well if we get some good writers and proper direction maybe yes one day I think Shadow can be a great character much like any other Sonic character.

I may hate Shadow as a character and what his popularity has done to this franchise but at the same time there is hope for any character.

Too bad all the current Sonic writers wear silly hats and clown shoes.

[Tornado]

The issue with his common response is that there's really two aspects of Shadow that are meme worthy. Of course there's the Ow the Free Edge quality that is will never be forgotten anymore than STH '06 (where he was also there for the same reason) will be. With time and a solid direction and dedicated writing for a game about him, sure. Maybe that would diminish. But the same person runs the franchise now as did in 2005, only now he's decided that Shadow is just kind of a moody dick instead of super tragic ultra cool guy who swears and shoots guns and fights for MARIAAAAAA who died from Space AIDS (and also a bullet), so I doubt it will happen anymore.

 

But the other part of why are the "Shadow fans," of which everyone here knows what I mean. The ones that Sonic Boom was mocking when Shadow showed up there. The ones that don't think ShtH was edgy enough. The ones that acted personally offended when Shadow wasn't announced as being equally important for series representation to Sonic in Ultimate. And while that's memed about more often than it is reality, those people do still exist and we've all seen them.

[Gumbit]

Unfortunately STH is like sonic 06 , people will always remember it and laugh on it . 

I honestly don't recommend take a risk and make another game based on him , not with the current writings of games . I think giving him a spin off comics would be a nice beginning to redeem him .

Edited 

[DabigRG]

He is a black and red hedgehog with fangs and a gravely voice.

His conceptual purpose was to be a Dark Sonic.

His name is Shadow, as in the darkness reflected by light hitting an object.

He got his own spinoff game that includes all of those things, plus guns, curse words, the word terrorist, and the reveal of his surrogate father being an sacriligous alien overlord named Black Doom.

He has two evil counterparts in the form of Mephiles the Dark and Eclipse the Darkling.

 

Yep, definitely living down that fruitless reputation.

22 hours ago, JezMM said:

Real talk, they'd need to do a new story that has a big enough focus on him to allow him to develop and not just be a one-note "I'm the serious, unsocial one", character which is what he's become in recent games. 

To be fair, Colors DS, Free Riders, and one line in Forces seemed to give him a slightly more laidback attitude.

 

 

 

[DabigRG]

21 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Outside of his tragic backstory he's never really had much going for him IMHO.

Well that and the novelty of being a dark[er] antihero compared to the main character.

But yeah, Shadow is a character I went from considering a big favorite to being indifferent to seeing as a mixed but telltale example of how inhibitingly complicating at lot of Dreamcast era Sonic things were.

17 hours ago, ShadowSJG said:

He's serious but it doesn't mean he's edgy. Vegeta is serious, not edgy, same with Mewtwo

Vegeta and Mewtwo aren't literally named and designed to be as dark as possible.

 

 

11 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

. Though I would say time away from shadow being in a lot of things may have helped that group of people.

 

Oh, definitely. That applies to nearly all of the characters, really.

[Shadowlax]

5 hours ago, Tornado said:

The issue with his common response is that there's really two aspects of Shadow that are meme worthy. Of course there's the Ow the Free Edge quality that is will never be forgotten anymore than STH '06 (where he was also there for the same reason) will be. With time and a solid direction and dedicated writing for a game about him, sure. Maybe that would diminish. But the same person runs the franchise now as did in 2005, only now he's decided that Shadow is just kind of a moody dick instead of super tragic ultra cool guy who swears and shoots guns and fights for MARIAAAAAA who died from Space AIDS (and also a bullet), so I doubt it will happen anymore.

As for this, its going to happen. Whether it will be good is another thing entirely. WIth mania beings own thing and classic nostalgia being out of the picture besides " Doing mania " , they have begun mining adventure nostalgia. So that story will problably happen, will i be good I dunno man. Sonic's hella hit or miss, hopefully though

Quote

 

But the other part of why are the "Shadow fans," of which everyone here knows what I mean. The ones that Sonic Boom was mocking when Shadow showed up there. The ones that don't think ShtH was edgy enough. The ones that acted personally offended when Shadow wasn't announced as being equally important for series representation to Sonic in Ultimate. And while that's memed about more often than it is reality, those people do still exist and we've all seen them.

I don't think sonic boom was really mocking shadow fans at all? I dunno if you are a shadow fan or not and interpreted that that way, but it felt like to me just them not knowing what to do with the character. He didn't really seemed pointed towards anyone, he was just a plot device there was some generic edgy things but it more or less felt like they gave up than anything else.

As for the smash and the Shth should be edgier things, as for the former... I don't really see anyone making fun of that ever. As for the former, I don't see anyone making fun of anyone at all besides making fun of people being dissapointed in general, which is I dunno depending on seeverity just kind of being a dick. I have no idea what you are even talking about

[Pawn]

Some people don't like Shadow and think he's a cringey edgelord.

Some people don't like the Sonic franchise and think it's a complete joke.

Some people don't like cartoony video games and think they should be exclusively played by children.

Some people don't like video games and see very little of value in them.

My point? While it's understandable that some Sonic fans would feel a bit insecure about the franchise (because it's hard to feel secure when SEGA's the company handling it), we reeeeeally need to let go of this bloated concern about the slightest criticism. And let's be honest, it's not as though Shadow is in any danger of disappearing. He consistently shows up in merchandise alongside the Classic trio, is featured in every spin-off that comes to mind, was the only Modern character to be featured in the Boom franchise (outside of a Vector cameo I guess) and even made it as a DLC character in the latest game. He's fine. Some people just don't like characters like him. And that's fine too.

[Tornado]

29 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I don't think sonic boom was really mocking shadow fans at all?

Cool.

Quote

As for the former, I don't see anyone making fun of anyone at all besides making fun of people being dissapointed in general, which is I dunno depending on seeverity just kind of being a dick. I have no idea what you are even talking about

I'm not saying people were making fun of that. I'm saying that people actually express those sorts of opinions that makes others double down on mocking the character in general.

 

If you haven't seen them at all (which would be impressive since...uh... there were people even on SSMB acting that way for both things), then... username/post synergy, I guess?

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

I've always liked Shadow in the sort of ironic way. I think in general he's got a cool design and its easy to see why he's popular with kids. He dials up the cool edgy stuff to 11, essentially like a darker, extremely exaggerated version of Classic Sonic. Its probably why Boom Shadow is arguably my favorite interpretation of him. He's like a knock off Clint Eastwood character (Happen to love Eastwood movies; they're among my favorites) and its enjoyable to laugh at and have fun with as a cartoon character who takes things way too seriously.

I don't think Shadow should live it down. I think he should stay the way he is and the writers find creative ways to include him on occasion. He can definitely add in a positive way, when done right.

I've never thought the plots in this franchise should take themselves too seriously, so as far as going in that direction, no. That will make the current state of things much worse.

[Dash Speed]

There's something about Shadow that Sonic Games don't need or should build on when he's just there for fanservice, since it hurts his reputation and popularity with his true fandom. And that's really what's hurting him, ST can't seem to establish Shadows true character in a memorable way or treat him like a regular, they keep getting him wrong because they probably don't aspire to see him as a polished/iconic character that is worth the effort in trying to make him act like a main star like the classic 3 or they literally are too insecure and faithless in showcasing Shadow like he was thus they degrade his special image to new comers like every other character minus sonic and eggman.

His edgy appeal only works when its used at generally fun levels of making a character entertaining plus he's fun to play as and is liked because of it. His fanbase treat his edgy ways seriously or massive demean him as a meme that makes him look stupid, undignified, and worse a meme only good for throwing shade about the sonic fan base. Sega treats Shadow like a joke, see unlike like Tails or Knuckles, Shadow gets by being more or less in a role of making Sonic loom good, Tails and Knux are Sonics best friends and the co stars, Shadow is a rival role that barely gets used significantly in roles outside of being someone sonic fights and wins or someone who gets to get show off another character for sonic to fight like infinite while he just exists for shallow fanservice or disservice.

It's like Sega doesn't want Shadow to be any more than a niche main side character instead of sonics main cast. They just want sonic to be greater, and They use Shadow to emphasize that. Shadow is basically a satellite character like with tails, amy and knuckles but at least the other three are distinct in playing a bigger presence in Sonics character than shadow ever will.

Anyways as long as Shadow is a half hearted character barely used for cameos and non story appearances, it's just discouraging to expect shadow to be any more than a meme that no one takes seriously enough to establish quality for at this point.

[Kuzu]

3 hours ago, Tornado said:

I'm not saying people were making fun of that. I'm saying that people actually express those sorts of opinions that makes others double down on mocking the character in general.

 

If you haven't seen them at all (which would be impressive since...uh... there were people even on SSMB acting that way for both things), then... username/post synergy, I guess?

And surely enough...

1 hour ago, Dash Speed said:

There's something about Shadow that Sonic Games don't need or should build on when he's just there for fanservice, since it hurts his reputation and popularity with his true fandom. And that's really what's hurting him, ST can't seem to establish Shadows true character in a memorable way or treat him like a regular, they keep getting him wrong because they probably don't aspire to see him as a polished/iconic character that is worth the effort in trying to make him act like a main star like the classic 3 or they literally are too insecure and faithless in showcasing Shadow like he was thus they degrade his special image to new comers like every other character minus sonic and eggman.

His edgy appeal only works when its used at generally fun levels of making a character entertaining plus he's fun to play as and is liked because of it. His fanbase treat his edgy ways seriously or massive demean him as a meme that makes him look stupid, undignified, and worse a meme only good for throwing shade about the sonic fan base. Sega treats Shadow like a joke, see unlike like Tails or Knuckles, Shadow gets by being more or less in a role of making Sonic loom good, Tails and Knux are Sonics best friends and the co stars, Shadow is a rival role that barely gets used significantly in roles outside of being someone sonic fights and wins or someone who gets to get show off another character for sonic to fight like infinite while he just exists for shallow fanservice or disservice.

It's like Sega doesn't want Shadow to be any more than a niche main side character instead of sonics main cast. They just want sonic to be greater, and They use Shadow to emphasize that. Shadow is basically a satellite character like with tails, amy and knuckles but at least the other three are distinct in playing a bigger presence in Sonics character than shadow ever will.

Anyways as long as Shadow is a half hearted character barely used for cameos and non story appearances, it's just discouraging to expect shadow to be any more than a meme that no one takes seriously enough to establish quality for at this point.

 

[Shadowlax]

4 hours ago, Pawn said:

Some people don't like Shadow and think he's a cringey edgelord.

Some people don't like the Sonic franchise and think it's a complete joke.

Some people don't like cartoony video games and think they should be exclusively played by children.

Some people don't like video games and see very little of value in them.

My point? While it's understandable that some Sonic fans would feel a bit insecure about the franchise (because it's hard to feel secure when SEGA's the company handling it), we reeeeeally need to let go of this bloated concern about the slightest criticism. And let's be honest, it's not as though Shadow is in any danger of disappearing. He consistently shows up in merchandise alongside the Classic trio, is featured in every spin-off that comes to mind, was the only Modern character to be featured in the Boom franchise (outside of a Vector cameo I guess) and even made it as a DLC character in the latest game. He's fine. Some people just don't like characters like him. And that's fine too.

While a few years ago if you were afraid of shadow disappear forever I would argue while you were kind of silly, I understood why you believe that. In an age of ramping up adventure era nostalgia mining, you would seem espically silly. Even more so that it being ok some people don't like sonic things, I understand. Sega doesn't really make enough product that's quality on a regular basis ( Heck the last good sonic thing(s) to come out are regarded by many to be not made by them ) to change opinion. Shadow's gonna be fine, and if folks want sonic as a series to do better, talk to sega and sonic team and they don't seem to listen to the people who work for them so, and when they do listen have a penchant for misinterpreting things.

And I feel like that's sort of the biggest issue here.  If people want to feel more secure about sonic, that's the issue not people not liking it. Although people being dicks about it doesn't help.

1 hour ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

And surely enough...

 

I erase Dash Speed from my memory untill I need to deal with dash speed