How would I direct Sonic Forces if I was in charge

[Filipe1020]

I find Sonic Forces to be a very underwhelming game, which is a shame, because based on it's concept it could have a lot more potential, and I would like to share what would I do if I could change the way the game turned out to be.

STORY

I believe the Phantom Ruby could had been an even stronger plot device, think about it, how and why did Sonic and his friends allowed Eggman to take over the control of their planet like this? With all the equipment and factories built they could had a lot of time to stop him from taking over before it's completion, anyway, here's what I think they should had done.

 

This is the Phantom Ruby's official information.

"A weapon that takes control of people's visual and depth perception to feed false information to the brain, creating a new reality for them. Like a dream so real, if you bump yourself in it, your sleeping self will bruise? It's hard to believe."

My idea is that Eggman has been using the ruby to hide all of his modifications in Sonic's world, which is not detected by them neither by Tails' devices, since manufacturing all of Eggman's Army takes time, it took him a year to complete his plan, in the meanwhile, the Ruby has been working to make sure that nothing looked suspicious, it's like hiding everything under an invisible cloth, Sonic started to suspect the abscense of Eggman for almost a year, until one day he noticed something different near a mountain, apparently it was a breach that the Ruby coudn't hide, he got inside and he discovered that Eggman was manufacturing his army on hiding, but that breach was left open on purpose, since Eggman likes to show off his evil schemes, he told Sonic that his biggest project yet has just began, so he got the Ruby and removed all of the illusions that was hiding the factories and bases that Eggman had been building around the entire world, including the Death Egg Robots, which then started to march straight to the cities, causing a massive destruction, Sonic then rushes to try and stop it, calling his friends along the way to help, forming a Resistance to stop Eggman's total takeover.

 

GAMEPLAY

I find the idea that only Sonic, Classic Sonic and a Custom Avatar to do the dirty work to be rather silly, while the other characters sits down in a computer room, SEGA had the opportunity to use the other characters to help in the progress of taking their planet back, so here's my idea.

 

SONIC

He is the straightforward attack type, using his powerful speeds to take over thousands of robots in one go, helping the resistance to march forward into new territory, Sonic's levels are similar to what he usually does on Modern Sonic Games.

TAILS

The technical sidekick, he can hack inside robots and computers to access new locations, extremelly useful to disable entire armies and other types of weapons, the idea is that in his levels, he can get inside the bases to stop Eggman from controlling his army to invade other territories.

KNUCKLES

Powerhouse, Knuckles uses his strengh to help battle bigger enemies and bosses that can threaten locations that had been re-taken by the Resistance, he also can help by finding assets needed in order to progress, for example he can hunt back the Chaos Emeralds.

SHADOW

The investigator, Shadow's previous GUN training gave him the skills to invade the enemy base to discover new information about where will be the next attacks and about any weaknesses he can gather about the source of all of this chaos.

SILVER

Silver can use his telekineses to take control of enemy's attacks on his way, like bullets, rockets and so on, and shoot it back to the enemy, he can also move heavy objects to access new areas.

 

Basicly the idea is that Sonic Forces could had used some of the characters in Sonic's universe, each with it's own unique abilities and levels, instead of bringing back Classic Sonic.

[Korke]

Your idea does not solve the gameplay issues, they only swap attention to different characters.

One example is Tails getting a ability to hack. That alone means he will have to stop to perform the action, killing any pace on the level.

[A person, that exists]

Ah, Forces. The only Modern game which I think actually had an interesting premise and fucked it all up.

So, first thing's first, I would make new assets for EVERYTHING. Forces has an issue with recycling Lost World's assets all the time, and that makes the game look kinda stale, not to mention that it doesn't really show off the power of the HE2. I mean, make everything Unleashed-level pretty, with as much detail as I could possibly cram into everything. As for the style, I think that Forces could have a more refined Adventure-esque look, with the tone and overall feel of the games being very similar.

As for the story, I don't think the outlined "Eggman creates Infinite and takes over the world" thing is all that bad, but certain story elements really have to be either removed or changed. First, Classic Sonic should stay in Mania World, and the avatar shouldn't exist at all. Not to mention that a few characters need to have at least SOME influence on the story (For instance, the Chaotix hacking the main computer, like they did in Shadow's game, Team Dark doing ANYTHING, and Amy... I dunno, I don't think that a Sonic-obsessed tsundere with a hammer would have the best strategic skills, so just make her chase Sonic as usual). Infinite's backstory should either be changed to the Episode Shadow one, where Infinite was an already existing jackal, or the main game one, where he was created from scratch.

Gameplay-wise, I think that Forces had a perfect way to do multiple playable characters RIGHT, but that all went to waste when the OC was introduced. So, let's see how I would fix every individual gameplay style.

The Avatar's gameplay (Albeit with a more fixed acceleration and jump) should be given to the members of The Resistance, with each one having their own unique ability, as opposed to the wispons.

• Amy: The Cube Hammer
• Silver: The Hover Wisp
• Omega: Flamethrower 
• Knuckles: Drill Wispon
• Espio: Asteroid Wispon
• Rouge: Lightning Wispon(?)

Of course, you can pick a character before doing a resistance level.

As for the tag team levels, these stages would have each character actually talk and interact with Sonic even during the double boost.

Modern's gameplay: I think the boost needs to be a little bit nerfed, with Sonic only being able to boost using the wisps like in Colors. Also, I guess that the double jump should probably be replaced with an air dash, and, oh, I dunno, DRIFT SHOULD SIMPLY EXIST. Also, maybe make the acceleration a little more gradual and actually bring back the trick system. All that aside, Modern is the one that needs the least fixing.

As for Classic, I think that he shouldn't be in this game at all. I mean, we already have Mania, we don't need Classic's puffy lil hands over EVERY SINGLE Sonic game.

Now, for the levels. Forces has an issue with recycling stage concepts or assets and calling them something new, but what if the stages actually WERE more than just Green Hill and Chemical Plant? 

With Mania being set in a Classic Universe, and Forces being set in a Modern universe, the levels are taken from Modern games to create some contrast between the two.

• Lost Valley: A Wild Canyon/Rail Canyon type level, that's set inside... Well, a canyon. 
• Space Port: A Completely original level, that's similar to Metal Harbor.
• Prison Hall: Instead of being set on the Death Egg, the stage is actually set on Prison Island, where Sonic is being kept. During the stage Amy says that she has a strange case of Deja Vu. 
• Egg Gate: Basically, the escape from Prison Island.
• Arsenal Pyramid: Eggman's pyramid from SA2, with each all three of the chambers being present (Egg Scorpion could be the part of the pyramid, where the weapons are being made, Egg Fish could be the boiler room, and Egg Snake could be the escape exit)
• Luminous Forest: Frog Forest from Heroes, with robotic frogs acting as a sort of alarm system. The final part of the stage is the alligator chase, albeit, this time it ends with a quick-time event of Sonic knocking it out.
• Park Avenue: A level in Spagonia, where you have to rescue Professor Pickle to get the information on the Phantom Ruby.
• Aqua Road: A level set on a stage similar to the Aquatic Base from Sonic 06.
• Sunset Heights: A level set in a destroyed Westopolis.
• Metropolis: Actually, Metropolis doesn't need any changes visually. It looks pretty and original enough.
• Guardian Rock: A stage set in a weapons factory on Angel Island, with the titular "Guardian Rock" being the Master Emerald, that powers the factory.
• Null Space: A stage full of "Null objects", that look like their real-world counterparts, except that they're made of purple blocks.
• Network terminal: A stage set in a matrix-like level, a-la Shadow the Hedgehog. Home to one of Vector's many computer room references.
• Metropolitan Highway: A large highway set in Grand Metropolis. Has the speed booster roads from the original.
• Shadow's Enemy Territory: A level similar in design to EggmanLand from Unleashed.
• Shadow's Deep Jungle: A level set in Mystic Ruins' jungle section.
• Shadow's Virtual reality: A stage set inside a virtual reality, with all the characters' models and the environment being taken from either Sonic Heroes or Shadow the Hedgehog, to show that it's a virtual reality.

The stages themselves should be at least five time longer, with branching paths and way more usage of the slide ability that Sonic has. Also, every stage should have it's own unique, if pointless gimmick. 

[MetalSkulkBane]

Here's a funny thing about Forces: we all have dozens of ideas how to fix it, improve it, remake it. Most of them involve saying "add more stuff".

Meanwhile, if this game had controls, level designs, and length of Generations, then I would like Forces more then Generations. Simple as that.

Of course, I would like more playable characters, more fleshed out story or different level themes, but all of that are bells and whistles. The boring truth is those things aren't that important.

But if we're here to indulge our creativity, here are few my ideas to "improve" the game

Spoiler

- More characters, bosses, Null Void level, blah, blah, blah

-A final level where you play as Super Sonic. All those Zavoks, Shadows, and Metals? They act as badniks of this stage. They can't really hurt you, but they can slow you down (say Shadow can slow you with Chaos Control, or Zavok grabs you for the second).

- NO DEATH EGG ROBOTS!!! Egg Sentinels, Egg Champion, Egg Victor, Slayer, Tirant, Colossus. Anything then reusing that name. The last boss doesn't even resemble the bloody thing.

- Little HUB where you can talk to Resistance. If you want more story, talk to Rouge or Silver. Wanna just play the level, go to Knuckles. And put Master Emerald as a power source. There are dozens of tiny reasons why it would be beneficial.

1

 

[Filipe1020]

Sorry I meant to talk about more of the Story other than being very technical on the Gameplay aspect on this one.

[dbzfan7]

Gameplay is hard to discuss with people wanting so many different things. But with story, this is what I would do, along with every re-write the writers did in the story department. Just replace Stan with Me, and George with Sonic Forces writers.

 

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

I'm actually pretty okay with most of Sonic Forces storywise. I wouldn't "change" much, just "add". Resistance doing something, Eggman ruling the world, Null Void having any significance, Infinite's army showing up more often. Little touches. Overall I'm fine with the tone, pacing (mostly), Eggman being main villain, etc.

Few actual changes I would make
- Overall improve dialogue to be less dull. Definitely remove few lines, like Sonic being tortured or "our shining hope"
- I could remove Classic, but he doesn't hurt or improve the story, just wastes space.
- Keep Sonic 'dead' a little longer. At least 2-3 levels
- Give any resolution to Infinite/Shadow rivalry. It can be a conversation of even Shadow losing a fight to him. Anything.

I know that many people thing Infinite's backstory sucks and needs changing, but so far I haven't heard better alternative (making him a friend of Avatar, how original) and I still think he's better with a backstory that none, like Deadly Six.

[Nicky Nicardo]

9 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I'm actually pretty okay with most of Sonic Forces storywise. I wouldn't "change" much, just "add". Resistance doing something, Eggman ruling the world, Null Void having any significance, Infinite's army showing up more often. Little touches. Overall I'm fine with the tone, pacing (mostly), Eggman being main villain, etc.

Few actual changes I would make
- Overall improve dialogue to be less dull. Definitely remove few lines, like Sonic being tortured or "our shining hope"
- I could remove Classic, but he doesn't hurt or improve the story, just wastes space.
- Keep Sonic 'dead' a little longer. At least 2-3 levels
- Give any resolution to Infinite/Shadow rivalry. It can be a conversation of even Shadow losing a fight to him. Anything.

I know that many people thing Infinite's backstory sucks and needs changing, but so far I haven't heard better alternative (making him a friend of Avatar, how original) and I still think he's better with a backstory that none, like Deadly Six.

I agree - I wouldn't really change much either, I'd just ADD a lot more content with regards to the story/plot and level length. Lots more cutscenes that were also longer for sure.

Though I WOULD tweak the controls to make them better and I'd probably add an optional Very Hard mode that was genuinely more challenging, but that's about it.

[SuperAj3]

I like the idea of the phantom ruby being used to hide Eggman's preparations for his takeover. I also like the idea of additional playable characters!

Some of my main issues with the game though were a lack of content, and story being rushed.

If I could re-write time and modify the game I'd:

Spoiler

Design:

• Expand the scope of each stage. Make the 3D sections more open, and less linear. (and I would say given the 3 play-styles have the avatar as 3D only)
• Expand on Classic Sonic's stages
• Remove the arbitrary cap on Classic Sonic's speed
• Make the transition for Avatar's wispon attacks less jagged and not propel you forward each time you use it.

Controls

• Allow for manual control over the camera
• Keep that 'break on a dime' buff that some Avatar weapons carry as the default for their controls. It makes playing much smoother and makes platforming easier to navigate more accurately.

Story:

• Explain Classic's purpose (Or replace him with another character like Tails)
• Expand on the '6 months' Sonic is 'dead' via some more cut scenes
• Make Tails less cowardly
• (A personal one) expand Shadow, Rouge and Omega's communications (because their brief comments in Episode Shadow were entertaining and was a good example of team work in action)

Additional Content:

• More side-stories with original levels (as opposed to edits like Episode Shadow did)
• Episode Silver:
  • If he's acting as their tactician, we could've received some DLC of his fights in the war (which is mentioned in dialogue but never shown), and ending with the fight with Infinite we see during the main story. I think if they were to re-purpose moves, they could make his play style similar to the Asteroid Wispon and give him an additional period to float for a short while
• Episode Knuckles:
  • We see nothing of him after he introduces "rookie" to the team. His play style is pretty established, but having him open with a mission searching for new recruits in the city could work
• Any more potential plots. Episode Amy, Rouge, Tails (If the story were expanded enough to give him a motive. Maybe searching for Omega?) really we had a lot of cool ideas for side-stories.

 

[Ashwalking Bat]

This is a great idea in concept if one were given to a chance to remake Forces the right way. And I love that you Incorporated ways other characters could be involved in the fight. 

On 5/4/2018 at 10:56 PM, Filipe1020 said:

SILVER

Silver can use his telekineses to take control of enemy's attacks on his way, like bullets, rockets and so on, and shoot it back to the enemy, he can also move heavy objects to access new areas.

The thing is with Silver is that there should be more he could do. Sure he has his telekinesis, though I would like to present something that Iko mentioned in different thread. 

Quote

Silver is a big wasted opportunity.

• he comes from the future, travels to the past to save the future
• he has mind-based powers
• the Phantom Ruby involves a mind-based power

1+1=2, Silver came back from the future because he has mind-based powers, he's the only one who can fight the power of the Phantom Ruby (maybe the whole point of him having those powers in the future is as a way to fight the Ruby in the first place, this would have been an interesting background for him); the perfect chance for him to shine and play a major role in the story of the game without feeling out of place or bland.

 

[jgcatindig]

In a mainline game like this, they should have looked up to Def Jam Fight for NY for inspiration on how a Custom Character can blend with the story without being forced. Start him/her with easier missions, giving the harder ones to the actual characters(Amy, Knux,  Vec,  Espio,  etc).

Make the rescue mission to recover Sonic more intense,  and have Sonic show signs of torture. On a personal note,  how ironic would it be if Shadow was the one charged with the rescue? Hmm. 

[Skull Leader]

If I had called the shots on Forces...

* I would had addded between levels some sarcastic TV adds like in the original Robocop movie that play out as Eggman propaganda, showing how "much better" the world is under his control, while trying to mud the reputation of Sonic and the others, as well as news about how Sonic and his band of delinquent friends have vandalized his installations.

* There would be no Resistance. Instead, the characters (Tails, Amy, Rouge, the Chaotix) would be acting on their own and would have their very own reasons to go after Eggman. At most they would help each other as they cross paths, but would also split when they need to (for example Tails and Amy would work together to find Sonic, but after he is released, Tails would go with Sonic to try stop Eggman while Amy heads to rescue the captured civilians like Cream, Vanilla and Big). Only at the very end would they have to join forces to make their final stand.

* Sonic would be imprisioned within a virtual reality in which several scenarios are played out, with him always losing. Knuckles would had been captured after a succesful raid on Angel Island, and brainwashed him into protecting the Master Emerald, which Eggman is now using to power the reactor of his personal Egg-Dreadnought, the flagship of his grand fleet. Shadow would also had been compromised, exploiting the same mind control technology used by his late grandfather to turn Shadow into his personal enforcer.

* There would not had been any recicled zones. 

* Level design would had aimed at being something on par with Generations, instead of going for short and too easy stages that don't demand much player interaction.

*Also a big NO on bringing Classic Sonic.

[jgcatindig]

2 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

Also a big NO on bringing Classic Sonic

Ab-so-effing-lutely! 

 

Basically, if I'd make the game what the story says,  it would be basically Generations and Unleashed stages but neck-deep in Eggman propaganda and insignias. Give said stages a Bad Future re-imagining, but his badniks still intact.  Those new badnik models can stay,  but the bee badniks should also be monochrome.

Lost Valley would remain as is,  as with the Metropolis areas and City Areas. Actually, what we need is more locations. What we got wasn't bad,  but it needs more. 

[jgcatindig]

3 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

If I had called the shots on Forces...

* I would had addded between levels some sarcastic TV adds like in the original Robocop movie that play out as Eggman propaganda, showing how "much better" the world is under his control, while trying to mud the reputation of Sonic and the others, as well as news about how Sonic and his band of delinquent friends have vandalized his installations.

Maybe those would work like how the ads from Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty did. Within a hub. Seriously, the game needed a hub. 

What would be in a hub? 

*Mission Control: Manned by Knuckles,  with Amy nearby. The place to play the game,  similar to the Star Map in S2: WoL. 

*Wispon Vault: Manned by Vector. The place to upgrade your Wispon. Tails soon joins Vec when you find him. 

*Quarters: Your wardrobe. Self-explanatory. Customisable. 

*Records: Where you can view your best times and see replays of you and others on the stages when online. (If offline, you cannot see other people's runs) 

 

This is the hub I was talking about. Forces had the opportunity to be like this but... (sips tea)

[jgcatindig]

On 2018年5月5日 at 1:09 PM, Korke said:

Your idea does not solve the gameplay issues, they only swap attention to different characters.

One example is Tails getting a ability to hack. That alone means he will have to stop to perform the action, killing any pace on the level.

You haven't heard of Overwatch's Sombra, have you? Bcoz its basically that. She can still hack while on the move, so long she is in range of the target.

[Diogenes]

Okay, but what would hacking actually be, then? I doubt you could fit any kind of hacking minigame on top of running around and platforming, so would it just be hitting a button in certain locations and waiting for an event to trigger?

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 hour ago, jgcatindig said:

You haven't heard of Overwatch's Sombra, have you? Bcoz its basically that. She can still hack while on the move, so long she is in range of the target.

Yeah, except Overwatch isn't a fast-paced platformer, it's a FPS PvP shooter game where Sombra's main purpose is to hack enemies to rid them of their abilities and hack health packs so enemies can't get them. That's really different from using it as progression. 

Hacking as a mini-game could work, Ratchet & Clank's used it for years, but I don't think it fits very well into Sonic. Ratchet is a fast-paced third person shooter hybrid where you navigate through levels and arenas, picking off enemies as you go through, there's time to stop and open doors with a gadget, Sonic is a vastly different beast altogether in gameplay.

[jgcatindig]

On 2018年5月14日 at 11:50 PM, Diogenes said:

Okay, but what would hacking actually be, then? I doubt you could fit any kind of hacking minigame on top of running around and platforming, so would it just be hitting a button in certain locations and waiting for an event to trigger?

Maybe like the Werehog QTEs, but instead of killing them, they make them friendly? 

 

Hacked robos  get rings for you and attack its brethren.

[jgcatindig]

Hear me on this idea...

 

What if...

Spoiler

The Phantom Ruby copied Sonic's allies instead of his enemies? The game starts now in a hybrid between a somewhat under attack Green Hill transitioning into sunset Speed Highway, with Tails maneuvering his Tornado to shoot down aircraft. Sonic gets to some trapped civilians in time, like the original, but, minus Tails cowering. He still gets swatted down by a Shadow copy, but this time, he is accompanied by Phantom Knuckles, Silver, and Amy. He tries to talk sense to his "friends", but clobber him instead, forcing him to take them on and Infinite. Tails sees the clobbering from above and tries to gun down Infinite, but his Tornado gets swatted by Infinite's PR shockwave.

 

After he is defeated, several clips of Egg Robos marching on the streets in several locations are played, accompanied by different copies, the Chaotix on one clip, Tails on another, and Rouge in another, then transitioning into a very exhausted-looking Knux, viewing the news from the hub, shaking his head. Amy, Espio, Silver, Charmy, and Vector are seen talking, taking places in a highly technological round table, discussing the situation.

Locations would be:

Green Hill

Chemical Plant-Metal Harbour

City-City Escape-Speed Highway

Spagonia

Chun-nan

Apotos

Station Square

Empire City

Mazuri-Adabat

Holoska/Scandinavia-inspired location

Metropolis

Shamar

Eggman Empire Fortress

 

[Diogenes]

6 hours ago, jgcatindig said:

Maybe like the Werehog QTEs, but instead of killing them, they make them friendly? 

 

Hacked robos  get rings for you and attack its brethren.

The werehog QTEs bring you to a complete stop; they're pretty awkward even within the werehog's stop-and-go gameplay, they'd be even worse within something more Sonic-like. And in most Sonic games rings are plentiful and enemies are trivial, so why would I stop to hack a robot instead of just blowing past or through it?

[jgcatindig]

On 2018年5月16日 at 10:23 PM, Diogenes said:

The werehog QTEs bring you to a complete stop; they're pretty awkward even within the werehog's stop-and-go gameplay, they'd be even worse within something more Sonic-like. And in most Sonic games rings are plentiful and enemies are trivial, so why would I stop to hack a robot instead of just blowing past or through it?

Hopefully, they bring his many hand-crafted weapons to bear. His arm cannon needs to make a return. And his homing bombs.

[HywelAtTheMoon]

Weird idea here, and probably not a great one. This is pretty much an idea I had after seeing the amount of times Sonic let Eggman get away after stopping his plans instead of actually dealing with him. In short: the split, or Civil War. 

 

Shadow calls Sonic out on this after finally cornering Eggman in his base. Shadow moves to destroy Eggman for his crimes, including the destruction of GUN. Sonic tries to get in the way, but gets attacked by Shadow in the process. Eggman escapes. 

This leads to Shadow speaking up at a resistance meeting. Many side with Sonic, but Rouge, Omega and a few others side with Shadow. Silver stays neutral, as he doesn't know yet how the future would play out. 

 

Also, no classic Sonic. His story is done here. 

 

 

[jgcatindig]

23 hours ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

Weird idea here, and probably not a great one. This is pretty much an idea I had after seeing the amount of times Sonic let Eggman get away after stopping his plans instead of actually dealing with him. In short: the split, or Civil War. 

 

Shadow calls Sonic out on this after finally cornering Eggman in his base. Shadow moves to destroy Eggman for his crimes, including the destruction of GUN. Sonic tries to get in the way, but gets attacked by Shadow in the process. Eggman escapes. 

This leads to Shadow speaking up at a resistance meeting. Many side with Sonic, but Rouge, Omega and a few others side with Shadow. Silver stays neutral, as he doesn't know yet how the future would play out. 

 

Also, no classic Sonic. His story is done here. 

 

 

That could do in a sequel to this game.

[Salamander]

You would think they could just compromise on imprisoning him.  I'm not sure anyone so much as suggests this possibility in the games...  Even Wily's been put in jail before now.  But the conflict still works: Sonic wants Eggman to be imprisoned in Sonic's World, Shadow's been sent to bring him in for GUN; Sonic is suspicious of GUN's motives, Shadow thinks Sonic's World is too lax on security...  It's more the sort of story I could see happening in the comics, though.

[HywelAtTheMoon]

Looks like the "Shadow wants to kill Eggman" thing is already happening in the IDW comic. It's in issue 5 by the sounds of it.