Would you change/fix Shadow origin?

[Silvereyes]

2 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

The thing is , it kind of is?

If someone see's shadow, goes I like that guy what is backstory. And see's all that, that might not be the prettiest picture. Furthermore, he doesn't have a rivalry with the hero, like your other example that isn't what he does in the series now either. 

So you know, having a backstory that fits what he's about and does and doesn't confuse the mess out of someone might help

I guess? To be honest, I'd be lying if I said I cared about Shadow that much, so perhaps I'm just showing my indifference here. I feel like Shadow is a very simple character archetype and that what he does right now, you don't need to know about him that indepth to understand his character. Maybe if he returns to being a main character, in say another Sonic Adventure or something along those lines, then sure, it matters. Right now though, Shadow is just a supporting character, along with everyone else who isn't named Sonic the Hedgehog.

[Razule]

22 minutes ago, silvereye27 said:

w.

Personally, if you ask me the one who needs a background change is Silver. What with Sonic '06 not happening but him still being in the present timeline, and now just hangs around awkwardly with the main cast, as well as apparently no longer being capable as Sonic or Shadow. I think he needs either a retcon or something to happen to him so that he can have an actual purpose, rather than just be there because he has to be there.

He already got one, he's from Rivals.

[Shadowlax]

9 minutes ago, silvereye27 said:

I guess? To be honest, I'd be lying if I said I cared about Shadow that much, so perhaps I'm just showing my indifference here. I feel like Shadow is a very simple character archetype and that what he does right now, you don't need to know about him that indepth to understand his character. Maybe if he returns to being a main character, in say another Sonic Adventure or something along those lines, then sure, it matters. Right now though, Shadow is just a supporting character, along with everyone else who isn't named Sonic the Hedgehog.

I would argue given they are gonna start making movies, they are making comics and are now seeming to include more characters in the games again, and playable like shadow.

This might be the exact time to start... you know cleaning up and changing origins. That's how marvel and DC do it anyway

I feel like they are trying to make sonic brands, and I think now the time if any, not just shadow. But to simplify and redo everything

( I also think they should remake sonic adventure 1 and 2 while doing that, but that's another discussion ) 

[Silvereyes]

I can agree with that to an extent. Personally though, I'd just go all out at this point. I mean, the Sonic cast in the games has relatively stopped growing at this point, with the newer characters like Silver and Blaze now being over a decade old. I think a soft reboot could work at this point, like say write a story where Sonic disappears for 2+ years, comes back, is reintroduced to all the characters, and the time frame allows for a brand new set of designs which all fit in with each other, each character is given a defined role in the story due to whatever happened in the time jump, and there's a sense that characters have a reason for being there, rather than just because they are part of the cast.

[superman43]

5 minutes ago, silvereye27 said:

I can agree with that to an extent. Personally though, I'd just go all out at this point. I mean, the Sonic cast in the games has relatively stopped growing at this point, with the newer characters like Silver and Blaze now being over a decade old. I think a soft reboot could work at this point, like say write a story where Sonic disappears for 2+ years, comes back, is reintroduced to all the characters, and the time frame allows for a brand new set of designs which all fit in with each other, each character is given a defined role in the story due to whatever happened in the time jump, and there's a sense that characters have a reason for being there, rather than just because they are part of the cast.

Sonic disappears for 2+ years, comes back and he´s still the same perpetual age. 

[Shadowlax]

I would just say sonic just reboots at sonic adventure 1 and 2 ( its why I want them to remake them ) clean up and simple up the stories, fix the games issues, a new start. Maybe design changes, I liked a possible idea of making shadow look less like sonic and such. Just a new fresh start and you can navigate and choose to remake or include elements from different games in new games under new names

[Polkadi~☆]

I wouldn't so much as change his backstory, as much as I would rewrite certain events.

Yes, Shadow was created on the ARK by Gerald Robotnik. And he created Shadow to not only be the perfect lifeform, but to be the ultimate weapon of destruction, too. Infusing Shadow with Chaos energy and making him the best in every possible way, including speed, a weapon would be all that Shadow was.

Until Maria came along, lonely for being the only child on the ARK. So she made friends with Shadow, and taught him morals and compassion. And most importantly, she gave Shadow a true friend to care for. 

One government janitor job later, Shadow sees Maria shot before his eyes and he's sent down to Earth (or mobius, idk). Shadow is sealed away, and his memories begin to fade. Released and revived by Dr Eggman, his memories tell a different story. He's a weapon, a chance to get back at humanity as convinced by Gerald. He made a friend in Maria, and remembers his only friend being shot. So he believes he's a weapon, and wants to avenge Maria's death.

One super neat Dreamcast game later, all the memories of Shadow comes back, remembering his entire friendship with Maria, and he realises he wants to help humanity instead of destroy it. He jams to Crush 40, dies, comes back somehow, and now dedicates himself to fighting for the world.

No aliens were involved.

 

...It's a redemption arc!

[Kuzu]

We've certainly grown from over a decade ago when everyone wanted nothing more to get rid of him and saw him as a blight on the series. 

 

Uuhh, I don't really think Shadow's backstory needs to be changed either; the tragedy aspect may be a bit out of place for the series, especially nowadays, but it ''is'' an essential part of what makes the character who he is. While its not always referenced, Sonic Team have acknowledged it in recent years. 

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with Shadow's background by itself, it's just that Sonic Team didn't really give a lot of care to it and added unnecessary elements to it. Don't think you can really "fix" it, but you can refocus on the tragedy aspect of his character a bit. 

[Austroid]

I'd also keep it pretty much the same, minus most if not all of what went down in Shadow the Hedgehog. We never needed the whole aliens angle to begin with.

[Tarnish]

For me, in Sonic Adventure 2, his character, introduction and story was near perfect, even if a bit cliche. Bad guy turns good, going as far as giving his life to correct his wrongs and keep a promise for someone he cared for.

What I would definitely change is how they brought him back starting with Heroes. After the dramatic ending of SA2 showing his supposed death, in literally the next game he's right there from the very start. For some reason he doesn't remember anything, yet in the entire game he doesn't really shows this bothers him or wants to find out his past (even going as far as starting casual banter in the last cutscene for the Dark story and his interaction with Sonic when they almost jokingly engage in a fight). Even tho Rouge makes it clear she knows him by calling him by his name when she releases him from that capsule, he never asks her where does she know him from or what does she know? And Rouge, even tho she expressed at least a minimal level of care for him in the last cutscene in SA2, she never bothers to tell him anything either.

Then in the next game Shadow the hedgehog, suddenly he's very interested and concerned with his past...yet again, never bothered to ask anyone who clearly showed they know him, to ask anything about his past. But some alien he knows nothing about starts attacking the planet, claiming it knows him, so lets believe that hostile creature..Like, what the hell is that kind of logic?

As a final gripe: In the end of SA2, they showed as Sonic gave one of his wrist (or ankle) rings to Rouge. I always expected that be used somehow in Shadow's return story, but they never did anything with it as far I remember (at least when it comes to the games)..A huge missed opportunity IMO as they could have used that I'm sure.

[Kittea]

I think his origin is just fine. It's what he has become post SA2 that I find to be the problem.

Honestly I wish he was never revived after SA2 for the most part. His character arc was clearly supposed to end at the end of that game. The ending even tying everything together and quite well too. Unfortunately he had to become a fan favourite so much like many writers for other works that end up with a one off/temporary character that becomes a fan favourite the writers end up having to pull new lore, story and to an extent characterisation out of their rear ends for the sole purpose of pleasing the fans. Granted I'd say despite being flanderized Shadow turned out fairly well compared to a lot of characters who end up in this situation. He got some great development, especially in Battle. Unfortunately now that the writers are pretty much done with Shadow's original arc they don't seem to know what to do with him. I wouldn't even say he's being flanderized anymore. He just seems to show up in the more recent games purely because he's a fan favourite. This issue isn't new to this franchise.

Tl;dr - It's not Shadow's origin that needs changing. His current characterisation needs building.

[Dash Speed]

13 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

The thing is , it kind of is?

If someone see's shadow, goes I like that guy what is backstory. And see's all that, that might not be the prettiest picture. Furthermore, he doesn't have a rivalry with the hero, like your other example that isn't what he does in the series now either. 

So you know, having a backstory that fits what he's about and does and doesn't confuse the mess out of someone might help

I agree with this though

Why do you like being in denial so much?

[Iko]

I think his origins can stay the same, aliens included, though, there is no need to bring back all those complex events in future games.

Just simplify it as "He's created in laboratory, hibernated for 50 years, has lost a person important to him in the past". There is no need to add more details... this way you don't retcon anything, you just ignore all the unnecessary stuff.

The only thing I'd add is a reason for him to look like Sonic (I wouldn't change it since in Sonic Adventure 2 his resemblance with Sonic is a major plot element). I would say that Gerald, while researching on Chaos stuff and Angel Island, found some prophetic murals, representing an hedgehog saving the world; he decided to shape Shadow like an hedgehog because he thought Shadow could become that very creature from the prophecies; but even this is kinda unneeded, I mean, I would add it to the story but never bring it back in the actual games, I would only keep it as an obscure lore reference.

[Tornado]

Shadow is actually for real schizophrenic and Maria and Gerald never actually existed in his life; but he was so dangerous and GUN couldn't do anything to kill him so they threw him in a tube for fifty years.

 

 

 

Don't let Iizuka see this.

[Wraith]

I don't get why the tragic element is being cited as out of place when it's essentially what makes the character  unique. There are also other examples of tragic elements that are in the background of the series. They aren't as personally affecting, but again, it's  just something that makes shadow unique. The ties to his past contrast Sonic's free spirit.

[Ayliffe]

24 minutes ago, Tornado said:

he was so dangerous and GUN couldn't do anything to kill him so they threw him in a tube for fifty years

Somehow I misread "a tube" as "the tube" and now I can't get the image of Shadow skulking around Paddington Underground station glaring at passers-by outta my head help

[Sonic Fan J]

9 minutes ago, Josh said:

I don't get why the tragic element is being cited as out of place when it's essentially what makes the character  unique. There are also other examples of tragic elements that are in the background of the series. They aren't as personally affecting, but again, it's  just something that makes shadow unique. The ties to his past contrast Sonic's free spirit.

Knuckles has a pretty tragic element as well in being the last of his kind destined to forever be alone with his duty if you really think about. So yeah, tragic elements aren't knew to the series, but how played up it is for Shadow is. So on the topic of the thread while I find that Shadow is handled in too complicated of a fashion I don't believe his backstory needs changed and probably wouldn't change it myself. Simplifying his backstory so it still defines him but isn't overblown like Knuckles though would probably be a good thing to do though.

[Osmium]

5 hours ago, Josh said:

 They aren't as personally affecting, but again, it's  just something that makes shadow unique. The ties to his past contrast Sonic's free spirit.

Does no one remember Knuckles anymore? 

[Shadowlax]

8 minutes ago, A crocodile said:

Does no one remember Knuckles anymore? 

They do, and they remember they took the cool thing away from knuckles to make him " more inline with sonic" and to make him sonic's friend, and he's become shittier and worse. And they don't want that to happen to shadow. 

[Wraith]

1 hour ago, A crocodile said:

Does no one remember Knuckles anymore? 

Theyre similar characters, but they have more than enough differences to justify their existence . Knuckles flat out admits that he doesn't know most of the details of his past and ponders that "it's better that way." Shadow has a whole arc of obsessing over it and learning to  let it go. 

 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 hour ago, A crocodile said:

Does no one remember Knuckles anymore? 

Yeah, and he’s not been doing any better either given the slew of complaints he’s gotten over his handling.

So kinda not seeing what you’re getting at here.

[Ashwalking Bat]

23 hours ago, Polkadi said:

I wouldn't so much as change his backstory, as much as I would rewrite certain events.

Yes, Shadow was created on the ARK by Gerald Robotnik. And he created Shadow to not only be the perfect lifeform, but to be the ultimate weapon of destruction, too. Infusing Shadow with Chaos energy and making him the best in every possible way, including speed, a weapon would be all that Shadow was.

Until Maria came along, lonely for being the only child on the ARK. So she made friends with Shadow, and taught him morals and compassion. And most importantly, she gave Shadow a true friend to care for. 

One government janitor job later, Shadow sees Maria shot before his eyes and he's sent down to Earth (or mobius, idk). Shadow is sealed away, and his memories begin to fade. Released and revived by Dr Eggman, his memories tell a different story. He's a weapon, a chance to get back at humanity as convinced by Gerald. He made a friend in Maria, and remembers his only friend being shot. So he believes he's a weapon, and wants to avenge Maria's death.

One super neat Dreamcast game later, all the memories of Shadow comes back, remembering his entire friendship with Maria, and he realises he wants to help humanity instead of destroy it. He jams to Crush 40, dies, comes back somehow, and now dedicates himself to fighting for the world.

No aliens were involved.

 

...It's a redemption arc!

This. This right here is exactly a great way to think about it. Even I agree that Shadow was at his best as a character in SA2. A Shadow of that vain where he is redempted and comes back a hero, is better than a lot of the shlock that was thrown in. Shadow the Hedgehog, the game, merely was padding for the past events in Shadows life before Sonic and everyone were zipping about. While I found the alien thing mildly interesting, it was ultimately an excuse to have a alien force be the antagonist, so it's not all the business with Eggman and the Shadow Androids alone. And it reveled in the edgy Shadow thing.

Though, it would be interesting if they did expand on the Shadow Androids, instead of half assing it. But I suppose it's to be expected since Sonic Team does tend to half ass stuff a lot.

[Sonic Fan J]

4 hours ago, A crocodile said:

Does no one remember Knuckles anymore? 

It's funny how you posted this right after I specifically brought up Knuckles in this thread and his parallels with Shadow. Considering their parallels and Knuckles still being tied to the Master Emerald in SA2 I actually kind of wonder if there were plans at some point to have Shadow replace Knuckles since unlike Knuckles Shadow is freed of his responsibilities after his debut game.

[Shadowlax]

4 hours ago, Ashwalking Bat said:

This. This right here is exactly a great way to think about it. Even I agree that Shadow was at his best as a character in SA2. A Shadow of that vain where he is redempted and comes back a hero, is better than a lot of the shlock that was thrown in. Shadow the Hedgehog, the game, merely was padding for the past events in Shadows life before Sonic and everyone were zipping about. While I found the alien thing mildly interesting, it was ultimately an excuse to have a alien force be the antagonist, so it's not all the business with Eggman and the Shadow Androids alone. And it reveled in the edgy Shadow thing.

Though, it would be interesting if they did expand on the Shadow Androids, instead of half assing it. But I suppose it's to be expected since Sonic Team does tend to half ass stuff a lot.

I don't agree. 

I think shadow's at his best in sonic 06, where he has grown up. And for him to grow up, the alien and wondering who he is stuff...has to occur. That's why I advocate for the alien stuff , it causes a much better narrative over all. At least in my opinion, anyway

[Dash Speed]

6 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

They do, and they remember they took the cool thing away from knuckles to make him " more inline with sonic" and to make him sonic's friend, and he's become shittier and worse. And they don't want that to happen to shadow. 

Knuckles settled his differences with Sonic as a rival, Shadow didn't and still fights him in modern day games and media. Shadow is just fine in his origin, the idea of Shadow makes him stand out as a major contrast of Sonic's style and concept (bright, fast and colorful). Shadow is the most unique in contrasting Sonic as both his rival and his distinctive style and tone. And I also respect unlike Knux who eventually caved in and joined Sonic's circle of friends and sidekicks, Shadow still sticks to his own guns and has his own clique with reflecting his own personality and doesn't have to turn into a Sonic type hero to stay a major hero in the franchise.