Why, exactly, should we kill off Modern Sonic?

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

2 hours ago, Natie said:

Oh man, I completely disagree. (First off not sure why the koopalings have the copyright for "bad guys that work under the main bad guy")

I was using the Koopalings as the example of "Multiple similarly looking henchmen" trope. The Kooplings just popularized it.

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I'll give you that it's different from 3K, but that's really the only game in that classic line that's THAT grounded and un-stylized (which I honestly consider a downgrade), and even then it has stuff like a goofy carnival world with balloons and springs and abstract landforms, googly-eyed chickens that blow air at you, a ridiculous death star parody with eggman's face slapped on it, ect. 

 

I didn't mean to say that Mania's more hammed up presentation was a bad thing. I said it was inconsistent with the style of the past games. Even Sonic 1 and 2. And it becomes more apparent when you mesh all of these stages together. I can somewhat forgive this because it's an anniversary title. But the Zones in Mania don't match up.

Now if they made a game that adhered to Mania's style more? I'm game.

 

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

If they ever return...

The Adventure style was brought back

Sonic World Adventure is apart of the "Adventure" series. In fact, it was going to be SA3 until the ideas they came up with were too ambitious. So I don't think the team was afraid of doing the adventure formula again(I believe this to be false) rather the boost formula became so popular, it took precedence over the original intent.. That is why it is deemed a sub series for Adventure and not SA3. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

If they ever return...

The Adventure style was brought back

Sonic World Adventure is apart of the "Adventure" series. In fact, it was going to be SA3 until the ideas they came up with were too ambitious. So I don't think the team was afraid of doing the adventure formula again(I believe this to be false) rather the boost formula became so popular, it took precedence over the original intent.. That is why it is deemed a sub series for Adventure and not SA3. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

If they ever return...

The Adventure style was brought back

Sonic World Adventure is apart of the "Adventure" series. In fact, it was going to be SA3 until the ideas they came up with were too ambitious. So I don't think the team was afraid of doing the adventure formula again(I believe this to be false) rather the boost formula became so popular, it took precedence over the original intent.. That is why it is deemed a sub series for Adventure and not SA3. 

 

 

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

If they ever return...

The Adventure style was brought back

Sonic World Adventure is apart of the "Adventure" series. In fact, it was going to be SA3 until the ideas they came up with were too ambitious. So I don't think the team was afraid of doing the adventure formula again(I believe this to be false) rather the boost formula became so popular, it took precedence over the original intent.. That is why it is deemed a sub series for Adventure and not SA3. 

 

 

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

3 hours ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

Eh.. While the idea sounds..."Nice"...I'm not sure doing that would be suitable. How Sega defines Modern Sonic as of now is 3D Sonic from what it seems.They could go rush style but unless Sonic Team is doing it I don't want DIMPS again sadly.I can see what you mean. 3D games as side titles and 2D games as mainline...

No actually this is not at all what I mean.

I still mean that 3D sonic would be the main series again, just replaced with Classic inspired conceptual and gameplay elements. Not just another Mania but rather a true to form 3D sonic game inspired by the classic trilogy/Mania.

 

Yes, the Sonic Team of today have defined Modern Sonic as 3D and classic sonic as 2D...but it's not true in practice (advance/rush/sonic 4) and, for what I'm suggesting, would not be true going forward. Modern has already been in both 2D and 3D games. 

What I'm suggesting is that, with a new development team (a fully supported Mania Team including extra staff with 3D game experience... if they the Mania Team is actually interested) and leadership direction, reintroduce the highly regarded classic design for the main games in 3D, with classic inspired gameplay in 3D and then build from there. The purpose of this has nothing to do with Classic Sonic's character design being superior to Modern's for 3D or anything like that (its not) but, as I mentioned earlier, the fact that Modern Sonic has a lot of baggage and poor reputation in the mainstream. Read my first post in this thread to see what I mean.

Reduce the Modern Sonic concept to a side series for experimental purposes. Service the small group of diehard fans that have to have Modern concepts like an abundance of playable characters and gimmicky gameplay, OCs, "shonen" like stories, so the main games will no longer be destroyed by critics and can recover the brand's reputation for great gameplay, vibrant fantastical worlds,  etc etc.

 

Get it out of your head that Classic Sonic has to mean 2D, haha. It does not, especially if a different development team had a shot at the next big project. 

[CleverSonicUsername]

I don't want Modern to die, I want them to figure him out. I want them to approach games with the same passion as the Mania team. The problem with the modern games is that after making two good steps forward with Colors and Generations, they threw the baby out with the bathwater and did Lost World, rather than try to iterate on what worked in any meaningful way. And while there's something to be said about taking risks and offering some new fresh take, considering the lows the franchise has endured for years prior, it was just not the right time (which is to say nothing of the execution just being poor.)

But I just don't have a lot of faith that they'll get it down anytime soon. As time goes on, Colors and Generations seems like flukes, or the product of better minds that are now either gone or underutilized, and Forces more or less represents this massive step backwards. The foundation is still there but all the forward momentum has been killed. Would love it if they found their stride again, and by no means am I wishing they just nuke that arm of the franchise entirely, but if all I got was Classic games from now until the heat death of the universe, I'd probably be fine with that.

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

1 hour ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

No actually this is not at all what I mean.

I still mean that 3D sonic would be the main series again, just replaced with Classic inspired conceptual and gameplay elements. Not just another Mania but rather a true to form 3D sonic game inspired by the classic trilogy/Mania.

 

Yes, the Sonic Team of today have defined Modern Sonic as 3D and classic sonic as 2D...but it's not true in practice (advance/rush/sonic 4) and, for what I'm suggesting, would not be true going forward. Modern has already been in both 2D and 3D games. 

What I'm suggesting is that, with a new development team (a fully supported Mania Team including extra staff with 3D game experience... if they the Mania Team is actually interested) and leadership direction, reintroduce the highly regarded classic design for the main games in 3D, with classic inspired gameplay in 3D and then build from there. The purpose of this has nothing to do with Classic Sonic's character design being superior to Modern's for 3D or anything like that (its not) but, as I mentioned earlier, the fact that Modern Sonic has a lot of baggage and poor reputation in the mainstream. Read my first post in this thread to see what I mean.

Reduce the Modern Sonic concept to a side series for experimental purposes. Service the small group of diehard fans that have to have Modern concepts like an abundance of playable characters and gimmicky gameplay, OCs, "shonen" like stories, so the main games will no longer be destroyed by critics and can recover the brand's reputation for great gameplay, vibrant fantastical worlds,  etc etc.

 

Get it out of your head that Classic Sonic has to mean 2D, haha. It does not, especially if a different development team had a shot at the next big project. 

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I still mean that 3D sonic would be the main series again, just replaced with Classic inspired conceptual and gameplay elements. Not just another Mania but rather a true to form 3D sonic game inspired by the classic trilogy/Mania.

Nice meme...Might as well compliment that statement with the "Sonic Cycle" picture.

There is no true and only form to 3D Sonic. I suggest you get that out of your own head

 There are many interpretations of his core design. Mario 64 is clearly different from his 2D game no matter how you put it. It's non-linear, the platforming is generally harder, the movement options were far too complex in what Miyamoto wanted and the overall physics were largely different. Then comes Sunshine...Then Galalxy, 3D Land etc.

3D Genesis styled Sonic would be very interesting to see. Utopia shows some potential but it is just a proof of concept. Could work...Just need more data.

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Reduce the Modern Sonic concept to a side series for experimental purposes. Service the small group of diehard fans that have to have Modern concepts like an abundance of playable characters and gimmicky gameplay, OCs, "shonen" like stories, so the main games will no longer be destroyed by critics and can recover the brand's reputation for great gameplay, vibrant fantastical worlds,  etc etc.

How small are the diehards who love Modern Sonic? 

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It does not, especially if a different development team had a shot at the next big project. 

I wouldn't mind this shift.

As long as it pushes the series forward....

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

6 hours ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

Nice meme...Might as well compliment that statement with the "Sonic Cycle" picture.

There is no true and only form to 3D Sonic. I suggest you get that out of your own head

 There are many interpretations of his core design. Mario 64 is clearly different from his 2D game no matter how you put it. It's non-linear, the platforming is generally harder, the movement options were far too complex in what Miyamoto wanted and the overall physics were largely different. Then comes Sunshine...Then Galalxy, 3D Land etc.

3D Genesis styled Sonic would be very interesting to see. Utopia shows some potential but it is just a proof of concept. Could work...Just need more data.

How small are the diehards who love Modern Sonic? 

I wouldn't mind this shift.

As long as it pushes the series forward....

I never said there is only one representation of 3D Sonic. Understand my post a little better. I said a true to form classic inspired 3D gameplay. There is a classic gameplay and "true to form" in this sense means it carries the spirit and function of that gameplay.

 

There are literally dozens of interpretations of Sonic between both modern and classic. Even with classic there is no agreement about which design is best. But that is not the point.

There is however a well defined classic gameplay that the franchise is most known for and thats what I advocate for, in 2D and for a team to think about how to reimagine the most important elements of the concept for 3D. That is it. 

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

1 hour ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

I never said there is only one representation of 3D Sonic. Understand my post a little better. I said a true to form classic inspired 3D gameplay. There is a classic gameplay and "true to form" in this sense means it carries the spirit and function of that gameplay.

 

There are literally dozens of interpretations of Sonic between both modern and classic. Even with classic there is no agreement about which design is best. But that is not the point.

There is however a well defined classic gameplay that the franchise is most known for and thats what I advocate for, in 2D and for a team to think about how to reimagine the most important elements of the concept for 3D. That is it. 

a true to form 3D sonic game inspired by the classic trilogy/Mania.

The way you worded it seemed to be off a bit but alright

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

18 minutes ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

a true to form 3D sonic game inspired by the classic trilogy/Mania.

The way you worded it seemed to be off a bit but alright

I could have said "true to classic form" 3D gameplay and that would have made it much more clear. My bad. I'm just so used to havng these discussions now with people who already understand what I'm talking about that my descriptive language gets lazy. 

But I think you get it.

[Tyranno]

Prevailing critical standpoint or not, this is a bad idea from a marketing one because Modern Sonic is the face of the brand. He's still popular with the target audience regardless of the perception of him that persists in fan and gaming circles on-line.

[Multikaris]

One idea I had for providing some fresh and new control to the old classic Sonic standards was a new move for Tails. It was called the Saving Hop. Kinda like a Mid-air trick from Advance 2, this move allows for Tails to safely keep his momentum from either running or flying, and ensure a safe landing on a nearby platform.