Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

[StaticMania]

2 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I can see myself finding more enjoyment from classic honestly. Seems you do more platforming and interaction wise with his levels.

Also so does GHZ once again have no context? Cause if Gens is canon, I thought Sonic had no recollection of GHZ existing...

He clearly said he remembers it...

If you're gonna critical something, how about Sonic saying GHZ is one of his fav places to visit.

[KHCast]

3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

you're gonna critical something, how about Sonic saying GHZ is one of his fav places to visit.

"Is it me, or is this place awfully familiar" if forces is to be taken seriously, he's lived here for quite sometime. So how the hell does that line make sense?

[Razule]

7 minutes ago, KHCast said:

 

Also so does GHZ once again have no context? Cause if Gens is canon, I thought Sonic had no recollection of GHZ existing...

He did remember it, just far more vaguely than it should be considering it's his "favorite place" to the point he considers it his neighborhood. Just another oddity of Generations.

Sonic and Classic Sonic are separate, but Sonic had similar adventures in the past.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

2 minutes ago, KHCast said:

"Is it me, or is this place awfully familiar" if forces is to be taken seriously, he's lived here for quite sometime. So how the hell does that line make sense?

It doesn't. But who cares about what was said or not said in Sonic Generations? Fuck that plot. 

[KHCast]

Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

It doesn't. But who cares about what was said or not said in Sonic Generations? Fuck that plot. 

Because it's canon?

how is it were talking about how "amazing" this game is lore wise and all it's refrences, and delving into it, but when I bring up a confusing inconsistency I shouldn't care?

[Razule]

18 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

Are they seriously retconning Mania out of existence? How petty can they be?

I think we're going a bit too far with this narrative that Sonic Team ever has negative intentions..

It probably is some teleporting, and some illusions. Like.. the Hardboiled Heavies could have been powered by the Ruby?

[Blue Wisp]

What interests me is, if Eggman actually developed the Phantom Ruby, how does it end up in Mania's dimension in Angel Island? According to Mania's lackluster wasted as fuck plot the Phantom Ruby appeared in Angel Island after a dimensional rift put it there.

Uh.

How?

[Razule]

1 minute ago, Saber Wisp said:

What interests me is, if Eggman actually developed the Phantom Ruby, how does it end up in Mania's dimension in Angel Island? According to Mania's lackluster wasted as fuck plot the Phantom Ruby appeared in Angel Island after a dimensional rift put it there.

Uh.

How?

Maybe.. it got lost?

[Blue Wisp]

Just now, Razule said:

Maybe.. it got lost?

How?

Are we in a timeloop and the Phantom Ruby ends up in Mania's dimension in the end of Forces?

If so then how does Generations and Colours factor into this?

[Razule]

Just now, Saber Wisp said:

How?

Are we in a timeloop and the Phantom Ruby ends up in Mania's dimension in the end of Forces?

If so then how does Generations and Colours factor into this?

Wha? What do Generations and Colors have to do with this? I meant, maybe Eggman was doing something with the Phantom Ruby proto-types before the game, they got scattered, and one ended up in the Classic dimension.

[Blue Wisp]

Just now, Razule said:

What do Generations and Colors have to do with this?

Since apparently Sonic recognizes Classic Sonic (even though he's from another dimension and not the same one...?), that means Generations happened before Forces. 

And since Generations outright shows that Eggman finds the Time Eater right after Colours's ending, it shows the games are connected.

Problem is, if the Rubies end up in Mania's universe, Mania!Eggman gets it, Sonic fights him, then gets teleported into Forces's dimension, then at the end of the game the Ruby gets teleported back into Mania's universe where it repeats the events and...

I'm confused.

Does Mania exist in a limbo away from the Classic or 3D games? 

[Razule]

11 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Because it's canon?

how is it were talking about how "amazing" this game is lore wise and all it's refrences, and delving into it, but when I bring up a confusing inconsistency I shouldn't care?

Not that you shouldn't care, but the thing is, this damn retcon has singlehandedly managed to make Generations' story make no damn sense, and there's no real way to make sense of it that doesn't contradict something else.

I like the way references are handled in Forces more than Generations. It makes the world feel more like a living breathing place than a bunch of unconnected stages tied together by a white background that the cast barely remembers or talks about.

[CleverSonicUsername]

I think normally trying to make sense of plot inconsistencies in a series if fairly reasonable, but in the case of Sonic it's just a wasted effort. Sonic Team hasn't really shown much care in creating a consistent continuity, even in Forces they state that Sonic has been fighting Robotnik for decades, but is still somehow a teenager.

 

[Razule]

2 minutes ago, Saber Wisp said:

Since apparently Sonic recognizes Classic Sonic (even though he's from another dimension and not the same one...?), that means Generations happened before Forces. 

And since Generations outright shows that Eggman finds the Time Eater right after Colours's ending, it shows the games are connected.

Problem is, if the Rubies end up in Mania's universe, Mania!Eggman gets it, Sonic fights him, then gets teleported into Forces's dimension, then at the end of the game the Ruby gets teleported back into Mania's universe where it repeats the events and...

I'm confused.

Does Mania exist in a limbo away from the Classic or 3D games? 

We know there are multiple Phantom Ruby prototypes that Eggman and Infinite are after. I'm saying, one just happened to fall into Classic Sonic's world, and it takes him to Forces' events. No time travel, the rock just went into the wrong place, and it's not the one Infinite is using.

[Blue Wisp]

Just now, Razule said:

We know there are multiple Phantom Ruby prototypes that Eggman and Infinite are after. I'm saying, one just happened to fall into Classic Sonic's world, and it takes him to Forces' events. No time travel, the rock just went into the wrong place, and it's not the one Infinite is using.

So Mania's A Phantom Ruby and not THE Phantom Ruby?

Well that's overly simple. 

[Razule]

6 minutes ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

I think normally trying to make sense of plot inconsistencies in a series if fairly reasonable, but in the case of Sonic it's just a wasted effort. Sonic Team hasn't really shown much care in creating a consistent continuity, even in Forces they state that Sonic has been fighting Robotnik for decades, but is still somehow a teenager.

 

Yeah, that's a thing. Why would they say that..? "You've been fighting Sonic for years" "You've been fighting Sonic for so long" So many vague words they could've chosen, but nope, they imply Sonic games actually occur in real tiem yet no one ages. 

No wonder they say "Long time, no see" so often. These guys don't see each other at all for years!

[Celestia]

44 minutes ago, KHCast said:

"Is it me, or is this place awfully familiar" if forces is to be taken seriously, he's lived here for quite sometime. So how the hell does that line make sense?

I mean, that's taking Sonic's lines about it being his neighborhood very literally. More likely he's just been spending more time there since Generations, and during that time is when he found a favourite spot (assuming that wasn't also a quip, lol). Plus if he was living there he probably would've done something about the desertification...assuming it didn't happen overnight cuz of Ruby shenanigans, anyway.

I think I've said this before on here but it seems like they're treating the separate Sonics thing as purely a design and (more controversially) gameplay thing, it's not that they've been completely split up. Hell, they straight up say Eggman rebuilt the Death Egg here, which makes no sense if the classics never happened.

[Razule]

10 minutes ago, Saber Wisp said:

So Mania's A Phantom Ruby and not THE Phantom Ruby?

Well that's overly simple. 

I hope it is.

[CleverSonicUsername]

Just now, Razule said:

Yeah, that's a thing. Why would they say that..? "You've been fighting Sonic for years" "You've been fighting Sonic for so long" So many vague words they could've chosen, but nope, they imply Sonic games actually occur in real tiem yet no one ages. 

No wonder they say "Long time, no see" so often. These guys don't see each other at all for years!

I think what they were going for was some crack about the series length, getting all meta and whatnot. Problem is, it's not exactly played up as a joke and this game seems to take itself a lot more seriously.

[Razule]

6 minutes ago, Celestia said:

 

I think I've said this before on here but it seems like they're treating the separate Sonics thing as purely a design and (more controversially) gameplay split, it's not that they've been completely split up. Hell, they straight up say Eggman rebuilt the Death Egg here, which makes no sense if the classics never happened.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but that's why I've been suggesting that Modern Sonic had his own version of the classic games in his own modern style

That's really the only option considering the thing with Classic, and they're definitely not just treating it as "just" a design.. hence the dimension thing. We'd be better off if they did.. but they've clearly given it narrative weight

[KHCast]

16 minutes ago, Celestia said:

More likely he's just been spending more time there since Generations, and during that time is when he found a favourite spot (assuming that wasn't also a quip, lol). Plus if he was living there he probably would've done something about the desertification...assuming it didn't happen overnight cuz of Ruby shenanigans, anyway.

Given all the inconsistencies with Forces, I doubt sega thought it through that hard. But the idea that sonic just after Gens randomly decides to live in ghz comes off...eh. Like this game deciding now to reference games and give a sense of coherencey and time is just coming off a bit messy. 

My main complaint on this was that the story doesn't give a decent context to GHZ being here. I guess if they explicitly refrences Gens and sonic living here after, I'd respect that more than just having to guess

[The Deleter]

Sonic lives on South Island and visits GHZ near every other game and spinoff. Why wouldn't he treat it like the common neighborhood?

Generations is the odd one out here with the inconsistency in this case, imo, not Forces.

[KHCast]

3 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

Sonic lives on South Island and visits GHZ near every other game and spinoff. Why wouldn't he treat it like the common neighborhood?

Generations is the odd one out here with the inconsistency in this case imo, not Forces.

Except they're going off of Gens, not the other games. Which again, if celestia's theory is correct and Sonic after Gens decided to live in ghz, id have liked if they bring that up instead of expect us to just assume that 

also my comment was also pointing out how Sonic didn't "clearly remember GHZ" in Gens.

[Razule]

10 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Given all the inconsistencies with Forces, I doubt sega thought it through that hard. But the idea that sonic just after Gens randomly decides to live in ghz comes off...eh. Like this game deciding now to reference games and give a sense of coherencey and time is just coming off a bit messy. 

My main complaint on this was that the story doesn't give a decent context to GHZ being here. I guess if they explicitly refrences Gens and sonic living here after, I'd respect that more than just having to guess

Maybe Green Hill is right next to the city Sonic is going to?

Hey.. what if "City" is the city in the background of Spring Yard Zone!?

[Celestia]

Uh, no, I didn't say he's living there. My theory (so to speak) is that the lad's joking around, as he does. After Gens he's probably been there, but only as a casual visitor. If it's one thing that never changed about Sonic it's that he travels a lot.

For the record I wouldn't even mind if he lived there or something, just kinda doubt that's the case here based on what we know.