Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

[Penny]

Of course maybe Eggman was just lying about torturing Sonic to make himself seem more intimidating? Like, maybe he was leaking false information about it to the resistance? Might make sense considering it's only ever brought up the one time, and otherwise it doesn't even seem like Sonic was tortured since he acts like he's just fine.

[Dr. Egguman]

17 minutes ago, Razule said:

Yeah, but that's.. an assumption. The game doesn't say that, game says Sonic was tortured, full stop. Yes, I suppose being locked in a cell would be torture to Sonic, but they chose to word it the way they did and not actually explain it so I have reason to believe it could literally mean anything.

Besides, Knuckles says he was told that by an informant. Would Knuckles and an random anthro soldier classify that as torture? Unless maybe.. it was more than that

I think they just isolated Sonic on a prison cell, maybe feed him with bad food and... that's it. This can be classify as torture. And I really doubt Sonic Team was thinking in something really bad when they selected this term.

[Razule]

15 minutes ago, Penny said:

Of course maybe Eggman was just lying about torturing Sonic to make himself seem more intimidating? Like, maybe he was leaking false information about it to the resistance? Might make sense considering it's only ever brought up the one time, and otherwise it doesn't even seem like Sonic was tortured since he acts like he's just fine.

That just makes it even more pointless in the narrative.

[KHCast]

So the torture line, friendship monologue, tails personality, classic Sonic's mere existence here, infinite, etc, is there ANYTHING story wise regarding Forces we can all agree is truly shit? Or do some people see nothing wrong with the plot?

[Dr. Mechano]

1 minute ago, KHCast said:

So the torture line, friendship monologue, tails personality, classic Sonic's mere existence here, infinite, etc, is there ANYTHING story wise regarding Forces we can all agree is truly shit? Or do some people see nothing wrong with the plot?

I think, unfortunately, some people are so starved for a "dark plot" that they don't care if it's a good plot.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

In terms of the Sonic getting tortured thing, I think a major problem is it could've been used to some effect. It could've given Sonic a reason to maybe go more violent, or show him having to overcome something. Even if said torture isn't Eggman hurting him. Like, the "torture" could've easily been Eggman holding Sonic capative for months on end while showing him daily his own failure and how Eggman's won. 

That's how Archie Sonic handled the subject excellently in Eggman Empire. Eggman comes out in a massive mech that's designed specifically to counter each and every attack Sonic had in his arsenal. Eggman beats the crap out of him, humiliates him in the burning ruins of his own home that Eggman waited specifically for Sonic to arrive just so he could destroy it in his face, and then after the biggest, most brutal beatdown Eggman's delivered to Sonic, he begins mocking him for every failure to this point, even getting personal by mocking him about his failing love life with Sally, Fiona Fox, Mina Mongoose, and Amy. Eggman goes full on savage here and he doesn't even kill him, he throws a broken Sonic into the dirt and debris of Knothole, forcing him to suck in the full extent of his failure. And this came right after Eggman used teleportation technology to ambush and kidnap everyone except Sonic, Amy, Tails and Knuckles.

In a sense, that would be torture for Sonic. His failures were thrown into his face, he got his ass kicked hard, and was relentlessly mocked by Eggman, the same thing Sonic does to him daily. But with all that piling on someone that's usually carefree, that would be a heavy blow to him. Having that happen daily for six months in Forces would've been enough that Sonic can keep up a brave, cocky front, but really is a bit more brutal, or wanting payback. That's how Archie Sonic went, with Sonic taking 25 issues to finally overcome all of the stuff Eggman did to him and fight back, reversing all of it onto the doctor himself.

So like, the idea of Sonic getting a bit more violent or angry could work, but fucking hell, it sounds like Forces failed heavily and it became a wasted plot point that could've showed us a new side to Sonic.

[hifihedgehog]

1 hour ago, KittyNakajima said:

 

^ THIS. You must be reading my mind, man.

But you're definitely right about Forces' lackluster plot. Being an anniversary(?) game, that makes up like half the game:

Sonic Adventure 2: 10th anniversary. Murder of an innocent girl causes her grandfather to go crazy with grief and exact revenge on the world in the distant future

Sonic 06: 15th. Freezer clone of Shadow kills Sonic with his lazer, being the first and ONLY foe to do so. Deus Ex Machina undoes that.

Generations: 20th Anniversary. Plot twist near the end of game connects it with its predecessor; Classic and Modern are past and present versions of themselves

Forces: 25th Anniversary. Ties into Mania in a very lazy way; Eggman has essentially created a Freddy Krueger OC to scar the world.

 

 

 

Given this pattern where every other anniversary game is very good, we should have a very good 30th anniversary game from Sonic Team, right?

[SpongicX]

1 hour ago, Dr. Egguman said:

I think they just isolated Sonic on a prison cell, maybe feed him with bad food and... that's it. This can be classify as torture. And I really doubt Sonic Team was thinking in something really bad when they selected this term.

Maybe the torture was, we made Sonic into a pet hedgehog?

[McGroose]

You know, if there's one thing I can compliment Forces Classic levels on, it's how they reintroduced the shield monitor in stages.

Which leads me into another fuckup Sega did with Classic Sonic. No other unique power ups. Generations let you customize Classic's abilities and allowed you to bring in various different power ups, like elemental shields, into the level. I don't think you can do that with Classic.

So good job, Sega. One step forward and about seven steps back.

[Razule]

30 minutes ago, hifihedgehog said:

Given this pattern where every other anniversary game is very good, we should have a very good 30th anniversary game from Sonic Team, right?

Well Adventure 2 is kinda split in reception these days

[hifihedgehog]

8 minutes ago, Razule said:

Well Adventure 2 is kinda split in reception these days

In the most vocal regions of the fan base, yes. However, in my experience with various video game clubs I have belonged to, Sonic Adventure 2 is still very warmly regarded by the average gamer. Many still find Sonic Adventure 2 much better than most of Sonic's modern outings.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

Everything about Modern Sonic's writing style feels like awkward over-compensating to me.

People are annoyed Tails isn't playable? Let's make him hyper compotent and narcastic. Oh, now people dislike him? Make him useless next time.
People complain Knuckles hasn't been compotent? Let's magically make him super awesome rebel leader man.
Amy's annoying? Whelp, rip her entire personality out. Oh,  she get's kidnapped in this game? People might be irritated. Better write her like she's Rambo to make up for it.

So my guess is that the "torture" line is thrown in to over compensate for the lack of visual and emotional true stakes of the plot.
Well, we got ourselves a war going on and nothing of any substance has happened and Sonic is just kinda hanging out in jail for 6 months. Eh, just throw in a line about torture to make it seem like it was eventful or something.


It's so frustrating. They're technically writing things that I wanted to see changed, but they do it so blunt, with no grace, flow or thought, it feels even worse then what it was before.

[DabigRG]

3 minutes ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Everything about Modern Sonic's writing style feels like awkward over-compensating to me.

People are annoyed Tails isn't playable? Let's make him hyper compotent and narcastic. Oh, now people dislike him? Make him useless next time.
People complain Knuckles hasn't been compotent? Let's magically make him super awesome rebel leader man.
Amy's annoying? Whelp, rip her entire personality out. Oh,  she get's kidnapped in this game? People might be irritated. Better write her like she's Rambo to make up for it.

 

Pretty much. While it's fine to take certain reactions to your writing into account, this game really felt like it ended up overcorrecting in odd ways.

[Razule]

18 minutes ago, hifihedgehog said:

In the most vocal regions of the fan base, yes. However, in my experience with various video game clubs I have belonged to, Sonic Adventure 2 is still very warmly regarded by the average gamer. Many still find Sonic Adventure 2 much better than most of Sonic modern's outings.

I've got an itching feeling Forces will be similar.. maybe not considered as good as Adventure 2, but one of the best Modern games, judging by non-Sonic forum places.

I don't think it deserves such a title but damn, there are a lot of people pleased by the leaks

[dbzfan7]

16 minutes ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Everything about Modern Sonic's writing style feels like awkward over-compensating to me.

People are annoyed Tails isn't playable? Let's make him hyper compotent and narcastic. Oh, now people dislike him? Make him useless next time.
People complain Knuckles hasn't been compotent? Let's magically make him super awesome rebel leader man.
Amy's annoying? Whelp, rip her entire personality out. Oh,  she get's kidnapped in this game? People might be irritated. Better write her like she's Rambo to make up for it.

So my guess is that the "torture" line is thrown in to over compensate for the lack of visual and emotional true stakes of the plot.
Well, we got ourselves a war going on and nothing of any substance has happened and Sonic is just kinda hanging out in jail for 6 months. Eh, just throw in a line about torture to make it seem like it was eventful or something.


It's so frustrating. They're technically writing things that I wanted to see changed, but they do it so blunt, with no grace, flow or thought, it feels even worse then what it was before.

He's always been the guy as of late to fart around and whif in his on awesomeness like he is a god. I think he at least had more tolerable lines this time around.

Oh Tails was NEVER hyper competent. Bullshit. If Sonic was not there he'd never be able to stop the Deadly Six. Hyper competent would mean he was kicking everyone's ass, outshining Sonic, and basically making Sonic an after thought. Which would basically be a Tails fanfiction writers story. Narcissistic yes, but hyper competent absolutely not. He was just a narcissist braggin about his tech skills which only really came in handy at the very end and nowhere else. Almost got him hurt as seen with Sonic saving him. The only other time he showed competency was getting himself out of binds....which even then I put on the Zeti being highly INCOMPETENT as they never once made anyone believe they stood even the slightest chance of winning.

Knuckles gets an awesome role I'd not really think would fit him.....but nothing really he does there is cool. He kinda just barks orders and never does something. Does he ever formulate a plan or anything along those lines?

No arguments with Amy, but she's been like that for years....boring....or feminist....either way bleh.

[superman43]

17 minutes ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Everything about Modern Sonic's writing style feels like awkward over-compensating to me.

People are annoyed Tails isn't playable? Let's make him hyper compotent and narcastic. Oh, now people dislike him? Make him useless next time.
People complain Knuckles hasn't been compotent? Let's magically make him super awesome rebel leader man.
Amy's annoying? Whelp, rip her entire personality out. Oh,  she get's kidnapped in this game? People might be irritated. Better write her like she's Rambo to make up for it.

So my guess is that the "torture" line is thrown in to over compensate for the lack of visual and emotional true stakes of the plot.
Well, we got ourselves a war going on and nothing of any substance has happened and Sonic is just kinda hanging out in jail for 6 months. Eh, just throw in a line about torture to make it seem like it was eventful or something.

I just can´t forget the thing from Sonic X that in human world 6 years passed, whilst in Sonic´s only 6 months. I think that the "human´s time" for this says how long the team was in development hell, well, nearly.

[Multikaris]

46 minutes ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Everything about Modern Sonic's writing style feels like awkward over-compensating to me.

People are annoyed Tails isn't playable? Let's make him hyper compotent and narcastic. Oh, now people dislike him? Make him useless next time.
People complain Knuckles hasn't been compotent? Let's magically make him super awesome rebel leader man.
Amy's annoying? Whelp, rip her entire personality out. Oh,  she get's kidnapped in this game? People might be irritated. Better write her like she's Rambo to make up for it.

So my guess is that the "torture" line is thrown in to over compensate for the lack of visual and emotional true stakes of the plot.
Well, we got ourselves a war going on and nothing of any substance has happened and Sonic is just kinda hanging out in jail for 6 months. Eh, just throw in a line about torture to make it seem like it was eventful or something.


It's so frustrating. They're technically writing things that I wanted to see changed, but they do it so blunt, with no grace, flow or thought, it feels even worse then what it was before.

How will they overcorrect themselves next time? 

 

And another thing i forgot forgot was that Boom Sonic was going to get mentioned. More evidence of three last hidden stages!

[SSF1991]

Hi.

So apparently someone has 100%'d the game.

• Secret stages unlock as you go through the game. Ex stages unlock by collecting red rings. They play exactly the same.
• No hidden zone or extra final boss, apparently.
• You don't unlock anything (pre-release, anyway...he speculates that Super Sonic may be the reward once the patch comes in) for getting all the moon rings. Just an achievement/trophy.
• On how long it took to 100% it: "Maybe 25 to 30 hours. Depending on your skill (time challenges) you can get it faster. Also there was no guide or anything to let me know where the collectables are."
• Shadow DLC: "It's only 15 red rings, 3 numbered rings, and 3 moon rings. That's if it has 3 stages."
• How you get moon rings: "After you collect all the Red rings in a level Numbered rings start to show up in it. Collect the numbered rings and moon rings will start to show up in that level. They work the same as numbered rings. They spawn in set locations together. Except once you get one you need to get the rest quickly or they will disappear. "
• As far as the user knows, Knuckles' hat from the OVA is not in the game.
• On the difficulty: "Easier then generations. Bonus stages are not that hard. And only 3 time challenges gave me a hard time. All three were time challenges on boss fights. So if you got gen's you should be able to get this one."
• Amount of Avatar parts: "There's a lot. I mean a lot of custom part for your Avatar at least 500+ There are 7 type of wispons in the game. But here's the cool thing. Each one wispons can have three perks. Meaning two lightning wispons can be different based on what perks they have. If you count the same wispons but with different perks as different weapons then there's a ton of them to collect too. Perks are stuff like gain extra speed on landing. Faster hoaming attack. Invis on 100 rings. That's sort of thing."
• You can save up to 12 Avatars in a game.

[hifihedgehog]

1 hour ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

I hEverything about Modern Sonic's writing style feels like awkward over-compensating to me.

People are annoyed Tails isn't playable? Let's make him hyper compotent and narcastic. Oh, now people dislike him? Make him useless next time.
People complain Knuckles hasn't been compotent? Let's magically make him super awesome rebel leader man.
Amy's annoying? Whelp, rip her entire personality out. Oh,  she get's kidnapped in this game? People might be irritated. Better write her like she's Rambo to make up for it.

So my guess is that the "torture" line is thrown in to over compensate for the lack of visual and emotional true stakes of the plot.
Well, we got ourselves a war going on and nothing of any substance has happened and Sonic is just kinda hanging out in jail for 6 months. Eh, just throw in a line about torture to make it seem like it was eventful or something.


It's so frustrating. They're technically writing things that I wanted to see changed, but they do it so blunt, with no grace, flow or thought, it feels even worse then what it was before.

I honestly think it is because they do not sufficiently plan and prepare (outline the plot and do the preliminary world building) before putting it all down on paper in script format. Instead, they haphazardly let the ideas come as they write and then they try making it all fit together when, while there are many genuinely good ideas there, there are also many terrible ideas that should be promptly scrapped or discarded. Judging from the various blogs I follow that review drafts of pre-green-lit movies, this is a chronic problem in movie industry script writing in general, even up through movies with $10+ and $100+ million budgets. But the movie industry gets away with this all the time because they know all too well that most moviegoers will pay regardless of the actual quality because of the IP's already massive mindshare or the crowd-drawing bizarre or extreme premise behind it all.

[Azure P]

In concerns to Tails lately in the series.

It kind of makes sense why Tails reacted the way he did in Lost World. But just seems Sega doesn't know how to make use of any one else but Sonic... and Classic Sonic these days.

[SpongicX]

3 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

Hi.

So apparently someone has 100%'d the game.

 

  Hide contents

 

• Secret stages unlock as you go through the game. Ex stages unlock by collecting red rings. They play exactly the same.
• No hidden zone or extra final boss, apparently.
• You don't unlock anything (pre-release, anyway...he speculates that Super Sonic may be the reward once the patch comes in) for getting all the moon rings. Just an achievement/trophy.
• On how long it took to 100% it: "Maybe 25 to 30 hours. Depending on your skill (time challenges) you can get it faster. Also there was no guide or anything to let me know where the collectables are."
• Shadow DLC: "It's only 15 red rings, 3 numbered rings, and 3 moon rings. That's if it has 3 stages."
• How you get moon rings: "After you collect all the Red rings in a level Numbered rings start to show up in it. Collect the numbered rings and moon rings will start to show up in that level. They work the same as numbered rings. They spawn in set locations together. Except once you get one you need to get the rest quickly or they will disappear. "
• As far as the user knows, Knuckles' hat from the OVA is not in the game.
• On the difficulty: "Easier then generations. Bonus stages are not that hard. And only 3 time challenges gave me a hard time. All three were time challenges on boss fights. So if you got gen's you should be able to get this one."
• Amount of Avatar parts: "There's a lot. I mean a lot of custom part for your Avatar at least 500+ There are 7 type of wispons in the game. But here's the cool thing. Each one wispons can have three perks. Meaning two lightning wispons can be different based on what perks they have. If you count the same wispons but with different perks as different weapons then there's a ton of them to collect too. Perks are stuff like gain extra speed on landing. Faster hoaming attack. Invis on 100 rings. That's sort of thing."
• You can save up to 12 Avatars in a game.

 

 

Never thought I would say this, but I hope it gets dlc to add more stages, characters, and content. At least the game was $40, so $20 worth of dlc might make it feel like a full $60 game.

[Razule]

If Boom Sonic ever was in Forces, at one point might he have been taken out?

[dbzfan7]

10 minutes ago, Azure P said:

In concerns to Tails lately in the series.

It kind of makes sense why Tails reacted the way he did in Lost World. But just seems Sega doesn't know how to make use of any one else but Sonic... and Classic Sonic these days.

I always look to this as the hidden truth XP

[DabigRG]

9 minutes ago, Razule said:

If Boom Sonic ever was in Forces, at one point might he have been taken out?

Probably when it was clear they weren't gonna make the 25th anniversary window. That and someone possibly having second thoughts that proved fatal to BoomSonic's place in this game.

 

Assuming that was indeed gonna happen, of course.

[RedFox99]

1 hour ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Oh,  she get's kidnapped in this game? People might be irritated. Better write her like she's Rambo to make up for it.

Yeah I never got why she's suddenly aggressive like that in Shattered Crystals. I could understand Sticks but not Amy. Plus, it doesn't really compensate for anything as she seems to contribute much.