Blaze is confirmed to not be in Sonic Forces

[Almar]

Every point against Blaze being in Forces applies to Silver when replacing "dimension" with "time." You know damn well that what little we've been told about his presence is just a band-aid after the injury.

[Shadowlax]

I like how you all are trying to justify her not being here, and the real reason is probably because sega forgot . Classic sonic from another dimension is here, for no reason, you know they could have bullshitted a reason as to why she's here. 

4 minutes ago, Flame Lance said:

 They can be bothered to throw in the Chaotix and Omega and Silver, but Blaze was too much to ask? No story reason is valid here. She showed up for Sonic's birthday but won't show when his world is in danger?

For the first part, Sega of japan seems to like Chaotix and Japan likes silver, and Omega is apart of team dark and they do a thing. As for the 2nd part, yeah that's actually a good ass point, she can come  over for free cake but when there's an actual problem she can't be bothered? What part of the game is this?

 

[Flame Lance]

3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I like how you all are trying to justify her not being here, and the real reason is probably because sega forgot . Classic sonic from another dimension is here, for no reason, you know they could have bullshitted a reason as to why she's here. 

For the first part, Sega of japan seems to like Chaotix and Japan likes silver, and Omega is apart of team dark and they do a thing. As for the 2nd part, yeah that's actually a good ass point, she can come  over for free cake but when there's an actual problem she can't be bothered? What part of the game is this?

 

Yes, those guys are popular, but so is Blaze. Blaze is easily more popular than any of the Chaotix, as well as Omega. There's really no good reason for the exclusion. I agree about Classic, they can shoehorn him in there when no one wanted him, but Blaze would've been too much effort, and Sonic Team hates effort with this one. We can get nobodygivesacrap Zavok though, so honestly, popularity had nothing to do with her exclusion either. 

[Meta77]

2 minutes ago, Flame Lance said:

Yes, those guys are popular, but so is Blaze. Blaze is easily more popular than any of the Chaotix, as well as Omega. There's really no good reason for the exclusion. I agree about Classic, they can shoehorn him in there when no one wanted him, but Blaze would've been too much effort, and Sonic Team hates effort with this one. We can get nobodygivesacrap Zavok though, so honestly, popularity had nothing to do with her exclusion either. 

Zavok is a villian. They pulled big villians through the years and honestly had we not had infinite mephiles would be in his spot.  I know son find it hard to grasp but popularity matters. I've rarely seen anything blaze related in Japan or discussed besides stateside.  silver is popular in the home territory. Regardless if one characters exclusion is that world ending there's little that can be said to bring someone back

[Flame Lance]

2 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Zavok is a villian. They pulled big villians through the years and honestly had we not had infinite mephiles would be in his spot.  I know son find it hard to grasp but popularity matters. I've rarely seen anything blaze related in Japan or discussed besides stateside.  silver is popular in the home territory. Regardless if one characters exclusion is that world ending there's little that can be said to bring someone back

I'm not saying it's a good reason to skip out on the game. I know I'm being ridiculous honestly, but this feeling of knowing she's not there really sucks. Like I said though, it's still worth a used buy, maybe. This just reeks of poor decisions for no real justified reason. It's another strike against Forces out of many for me. I wish I was as hyped about it as you are, but I am just not and never have been. I'll just hide and watch and see what happens in any case. 

[Sega DogTagz]

Even on the popularity front, Blaze is one of the few of Sonic's friends that is received well critically. She is practically a poster child for Sonic's friends done right. (She was at it long before Mania "brought it back") For a brand that has been preaching about "quality control" for the last few years, that's has to count for a heck of a lot.

 

 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Get Blaze a DLC. If she's not in the game now, put her in the game a few months down the line.

 

#BlazeDLC. Coin it. Make it a thing. Demand it.

[Dr. Detective]

Blaze was at that party in Generations because no one gave a fuck about the "story" they were telling. I don't see how using the game that didn't care at all about what it was doing narratively as an example works in the favor of supporting her appearing in one that actually does. Same with the argument about Classic Sonic. If it turns out that narratively he was just shoehorned into the game then that's a BAD thing. It's not a reason for them to also do it with Blaze.

If they can't find any decent narrative reason to include her then so be it. I'd rather they use her correctly and treat her with respect than pull another 06 and Generations by just shoving her in without regard for who she is. I'm all for characters I like showing up but I'd rather not be treated like a sheep who'll swallow anything they give me so long as I get to see who I like appear. The Chaotix being in Generations didn't override the disappointment I had for how obvious it was that they were just decoration. 

 

[Shadowlax]

 

9 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Blaze was at that party in Generations because no one gave a fuck about the "story" they were telling. I don't see how using the game that didn't care at all about what it was doing narratively as an example works in the favor of supporting her appearing in one that actually does. Same with the argument about Classic Sonic. If it turns out that narratively he was just shoehorned into the game then that's a BAD thing. It's not a reason for them to also do it with Blaze.

If they can't find any decent narrative reason to include her then so be it. I'd rather they use her correctly and treat her with respect than pull another 06 and Generations by just shoving her in without regard for who she is. I'm all for characters I like showing up but I'd rather not be treated like a sheep who'll swallow anything they give me so long as I get to see who I like appear. The Chaotix being in Generations didn't override the disappointment I had for how obvious it was that they were just decoration. 

 

I see what you are saying

But I raise you classic sonic in this game

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

I see what you are saying

But I raise you classic sonic in this game

Why are you raising Classic Sonic when I just explained why him being in the game isn't a counter-argument for why Blaze should be in it?

[Sega DogTagz]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

if it turns out that narratively he was just shoehorned into the game then that's a BAD thing. It's not a reason for them to also do it with Blaze.

 

Just from what we know about Forces, the Resistance is lead by an All-Star team of Sonic's best and brightest in a final last ditch effort against Eggman.

 

... I can't think very many angles where I would feel that Blaze would be "shoehorn'd" into that? Not having her there is more glaring that including her. I get where your coming from, but throwing Blaze into this game isn't just checking a box. There is a pressing need for her presence right in the first description of the story. 

[Shadowlax]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Why are you raising Classic Sonic when I just explained why him being in the game isn't a counter-argument for why Blaze should be in it?

Because I feel like it is. 

Him being in it is the most thinly veiled shit in the world, there no reason they couldn't have bullshitted a reason for blaze to be in this game. They bullshitted one for classic sonic to be into it

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

Wasn't this confirmed through the Sonic Forces: Speed Battle mobile app? If she wasn't a character there, what makes you think she'll be in Forces? 

 

Thats why I wasn't surprised and this isn't news to me.

[Sega DogTagz]

6 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Because I feel like it is. 

Him being in it is the most thinly veiled shit in the world, there no reason they couldn't have bullshitted a reason for blaze to be in this game. They bullshitted one for classic sonic to be into it

 

He's trying to say two wrongs don't make a right. We shouldn't be looking for them to shove Blaze into the game, just because they did it with a different character. Crap Begets Crap.

 

 

 

[Roger_van_der_weide]

Heh, I have a hunch the reason why Classic Sonic is in is because Modern Sonic will be captured at the beginning of the game and might be out of comission for a bunch of levels. Hence classic Sonic is inserted to stop angry fans from rioting that they have to play 5/6 levels with Sonic's friends with no Sonic in sight. Just have the Sonic replacement character be other Sonic and problem solved, yay.

But yeah, throwing Blaze in would muddle up the story even more, ANOTHER Alternative dimension to be explained.
You also don't want too many heroes against too few enemies. Altough would have been neat if they added Eggman Nega to the villain roster.


That said, I did kinda hope for Blaze and Eggman Nega if only because this game would ahve been a good oppurtunity for Sonic Team to finally explain how they work.
I wouldn't expect Sonic Team to untangle the mess they created with these characters but at least they could have retconned them properly into a cleaner context.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

52 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Get Blaze a DLC. If she's not in the game now, put her in the game a few months down the line.

 

#BlazeDLC. Coin it. Make it a thing. Demand it.

That seems reasonable given that she'd basically run like Sonic and boost like Shadow. No new animations needed, except for victory poses really.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Just from what we know about Forces, the Resistance is lead by an All-Star team of Sonic's best and brightest in a final last ditch effort against Eggman.

... I can't think very many angles where I would feel that Blaze would be "shoehorn'd" into that? Not having her there is more glaring that including her.

I'm going to have to disagree on that. When I don't see her around, instantly I just assume she's in her own dimension.

I'm not wondering where she is because there's no reason for me to assume the dimensional hopping thing is just something you can expect the audience to assume will happen or has happened on its own.

I wouldn't be opposed to her being in the game if they had a proper explanation that suited the kind of story they were telling but I have no way of knowing what that would entail. I can't be mad at them for leaving her out if it was for the sake of focusing on what they felt was necessary to focus on without jumping through more hoops to try and scramble together an explanation for her being around. 

And if she were to just be there like she was in Generations, then... I'd be disappointed by that greatly. 

This Sol Dimension thing is a very unfortunate angle her character has. Same with the whole Future bizz with Silver. Working around these issues is a very tight squeeze that Sonic Team hasn't been able to handle well just yet. When I see stuff like the shit in Colors DS where she shows up, they ask her why she's there, and her answer is "The Sol Emeralds started blinking and suddenly I was here" then there's a problem that needs serious ironing out.

I'd say that it's probably more important to fix things a bit so that it can be more immediately understandable why she'd just be around without demanding too much thought from the player. That'll have to be something they work on in the future though because right now, this story isn't about that and it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of room to force an explanation in there to quickly justify the appearance of someone who'll just be another non-player entity.

She doesn't need motivation to help or anything. That's not really the issue but the workarounds to have it make sense in terms of what's going on in this game don't seem warranted to me. So that's my take on it.

 

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

Because I feel like it is. 

Him being in it is the most thinly veiled shit in the world, there no reason they couldn't have bullshitted a reason for blaze to be in this game. They bullshitted one for classic sonic to be into it

I literally said in the post that them bullshitting a reason for Classic Sonic (if that is what they did) is a BAD thing.

It's NOT something you should want them to do for Blaze.

Why on Earth would you want MORE of that? Why would anyone ever use that as a justification for why a character should appear?

[Shadowlax]

8 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

He's trying to say two wrongs don't make a right. We shouldn't be looking for them to shove Blaze into the game, just because they did it with a different character. Crap Begets Crap.

I feel you and under normal circumstanced I would agree, but this game is already kitchen sink mode, for better or for worse. So at this point i'm like " well why not?"

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Just now, Shadowlax said:

I feel you and under normal circumstanced I would agree, but this game is already kitchen sink mode, for better or for worse. So at this point i'm like " well why not?"

Maybe whatever she's dealing with, she'll lose the fight and the next game will bring that up. 

[Shadowlax]

Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

Maybe whatever she's dealing with, she'll lose the fight and the next game will bring that up. 

I would like a whole game that brings the other characters to her world and takes place there in whole 3d tbh

[Lord-Dreamerz]

So it's a fact she won't appear in Forces now? ... UgggGgggh my interest in the game just dropped farther. I don't agree with the logic that the game is such a mess that it's a great thing she isn't in it... almost all the best characters are showing up in Forces and she doesn't get in? screw that noise. None of the Sonic games have amazing stories i say, so them skipping out on including her on this one spares her of nothing. And Forces's story definitely is not the worse story they have made from what we've seen of it. Even stinking Silver got in! This sucks!

Oh well... not like she would had been playable anyways... but then again it's doubtful her or anybody besides Sonic/Tails/Knuckles/other Sonics & avatars ever will again outside of small spinoffs! Which is my main disappointment in this series currently. I'm at the point where I'll settle for my faves like Blaze even getting to be a side character in a Sonic story... and I can't even seem to get that now. But this is the results of a life one chooses when they don't pick out the main character of a series to be their favorite I suppose. :/

[Sega DogTagz]

@Dr. Detective Mike and I can completely agree with all of that. There is no questioning the "complexities" of her situation. Even if cross-dimensional travel to and fro has been treated like a hurdle the height of a sidewalk curb, its still something we need to take into account.

 

However I offer a single counterpoint.

In a game, where the story has found it necessary to point out that Sonic and his friends were not enough. That the resistance effort was spread so thin that the heroes have resorted to arming civilians with Wispons and asking them to pick up the fight. In a world where you are on the brink of defeat. In a world where the all hands-on-deck-button was slammed so hard that it is permanently depressed

 

HOW IN THE WORLD DO YOU NOT JUSTIFY MAKING THE 1 PHONE CALL THAT COULD BRING A SUPER DOWN FROM HEAVEN TO LEAD YOUR ARMY

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

So it's a fact she won't appear in Forces now? ... UgggGgggh my interest in the game just dropped farther. I don't agree with the logic that the game is such a mess that it's a great thing she isn't in it... almost all the best characters are showing up in Forces and she doesn't get in? screw that noise. None of the Sonic games have amazing stories i say, so them skipping out on including her on this one spares her of nothing. And Forces's story definitely is not the worse story they have made from what we've seen of it. Even stinking Silver got in! This sucks!

Oh well... not like she would had been playable anyways... but then again it's doubtful her or anybody besides Sonic/Tails/Knuckles/other Sonics & avatars ever will again outside of small spinoffs! Which is my main disappointment in this series currently. I'm at the point where I'll settle for my faves like Blaze even getting to be a side character in a Sonic story... and I can't even seem to get that now. But this is the results of a life one chooses when they don't pick out the main character of a series to be their favorite I suppose. :/

I was going through this something FIERCE when I was younger. After Shadow the Hedgehog, the Chaotix wouldn't show up at all. For anything I bought.

The only one who would on occasion was Vector and that was for the annual "OLYMPICS SHIT NO ONE CARES ABOUT 20XX".

And I think this is actually where the younger me started to have a bit of an unfair bias towards Blaze because she always was popular on the Internet and she still is now if all the replies in this thread alone are to go by. As such, I was noticing just how often she would appear in place of someone else I wanted to see. In Sonic 06, I didn't really know who she was. I hadn't played Rush. So when she was there and written as dull as dishwater by the hack writing job that story had I didn't think she was anything special. I wanted to see the Chaotix again but I wasn't allowed to.

When Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity came out I noticed she (and Silver) were unlockable characters but again, none of the Chaotix were. Omega wasn't even there this time.

Sonic and the Secret Rings had Blaze (and Silver) as playables in the party mode. No Chaotix. No Omega.

Sonic and the Black Knight. She was Sir Percival. No Chaotix. No Omega.

Before I knew it, 5 years had passed. I heard they were finally back in Colors DS as some dialogue boxes but I owned a Wii and no hand-held so I could only look at their sprites talk online.

Finally Generations came and there they were. Still not-playable but they were there. It took for fucking ever.

I think the reason I had such a strong bias towards Blaze was because of that. I thought that Sonic Team was just pushing who I liked out of the way to make way for their new, shiny, more popular toys and it made me feel like a fool for being fans of the characters who no one liked.

There's literally a post in this thread that outright states that "Blaze is WAY more popular than the Chaotix and Omega" specifically. Specifically it mentions the Chaotix and Omega. 

So I know that feeling. The difference is that it took me WAY too long to figure out that it wasn't Blaze's fault or anything like that. 

Fact of the matter was, they were treating all their characters like they were chew toys. Some would go out to dance if they were popular enough and some would have to wait their turn if it ever came again.

The fact that something like Forces is happening at all, in terms of what they're doing with it's story is a miracle to me. I don't want any fans of Blaze to get discouraged by this. She has a bigger chance for something great again then this news lets on. It may take a bit more time, but you'll be thrown another bone again. 

It's all about how to survive that waiting game... it sucks and I wish they'd come out and confirm for you guys that the next one would seek to fix the stuff with Blaze (And Eggman Nega) so we can have back to back awesomeness for everyone but... I'm still not even convinced that what they're doing with Forces here will last.

I don't know what I can do or say to quell the storm this has caused really. All I can say is that, despite agreeing with the decision that it's better she not be in THIS particular game, I understand and sympathize with those who wanted her to appear regardless. And I sincerely wish for it to happen sometime in the future.

I know it's sappy but I really do want everyone to be happy. 

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

HOW IN THE WORLD DO YOU NOT JUSTIFY MAKING THE 1 PHONE CALL THAT COULD BRING A SUPER DOWN FROM HEAVEN TO LEAD YOUR ARMY

Is she a phone call away?  Is that how her dimension works? 

How does her dimension work?

Are they in constant contact with her?

How do they notify each other of their issues?

Do they send bottles by inter-dimensional tornado?

Or do they speak to her through the Sol Emeralds?

Does Tails have a machine that can do this?

Did Tails invent something that would make it easier to contact her at the end of Rush Adventure?

Does that game ever provide a way for them to accurately meet up again?

There's this ship that Tails made called the SS Tornado EX? And it runs on the power of both the Chaos Emeralds and the Sol Emeralds?

So they need at the very least ALL the Chaos Emeralds to do this? Do the Heroes even have access to all the Emeralds in Forces? But also, apparently, there's stability between them and the Sol Emeralds at the end of Rush Adventure? Did that last forever? Or was that temporary? Did they say they could just travel freely at the end of the game? It didn't seem like it with the way they were saying goodbye. They promised to see each other again but if it were something they could just do on a whim you'd think the game would just say that.

Is it ever explained how Eggman got into Blaze's world in the first game? I can't find anything on that. 

Why is it that a tornado from the ocean sends them to Blaze's world but they have to take a specially made ship back? I guess because both sets of emeralds wanted it? Yeah, apparently both sets of emeralds wanted them to protect the dimensions and that's why it happened...?

And then she's just in Sonic 06 afterward with no explanation... because...????????

And if they can phone the Sol Dimension, how many minutes is that going to use because I'd imagine the phone bills would be pretty high on that one. They better have good service.

I really wish they had just said that they could come and go as they please through some magic portal or something because I'm getting confused just researching this on the wikis right now. 

 

[Shadowlax]

41 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

But this is the results of a life one chooses when they don't pick out the main character of a series to be their favorite I suppose. :/

" Fuck you for liking this character " feeling sucks man. At least its not the worst version of that though, the worst version is when a new writer comes in and decides to shit on that character because they don't like that character. Outside of shadow in the comics for a bit, that's never happened in sonic and it probably wont, so at least it ain't that. 

Unprofessional writers are the worst