Sonic Forces Switch - "30 FPS graphics with 60 FPS controls"

[MudHunter]

https://www.dualshockers.com/sonic-forces-nintendo-switch-interview/

"Tokunaga-san then provided some precise figures about resolution and frame rate on Switch. While PS4 and Xbox One run the game targeting 60 FPS, the Switch hardware can’t support that with this specific title, so the development team adopted an interesting solution: while the graphics run at 30 frames per second, the controls run at 60. This ensures that the way the player interacts with the game feels good, sharp and smooth, and isn’t undermined by the hardware’s capabilities. The team worked very hard to make the best of what the Switch can offer. As for resolution, it’ll be 720p in all modes.

Tokunaga-san explained that Sonic Forces is a very fast game, and input is key to its enjoyment. Limiting the controls to 30 FPS would turn it into a completely different game. That’s why the team adopted this solution to make sure that the gameplay was preserved."

[Bobnik]

>graphics at 30
>control at 60

What the hell does that even mean? Like, does the game refresh input 60 times in 1 second or what? Cuz I don't really understand this.

Also this is an interesting tidbit:
 

Quote

Miura-san also explained that the game was first developed on PC, and then the team made sure that it works well on all platforms. 

Does that mean the PC version isn't going to be a port or what? I mean, games are being developed on PC, that's common knowledge. Man, the wording is weird on this.

[Detective Kaito]

10 minutes ago, Bobnik said:

Does that mean the PC version isn't going to be a port or what? I mean, games are being developed on PC, that's common knowledge. Man, the wording is weird on this.

 

They said the same thing about Sonic Lost World and Rise of Lyric, IIRC. It doesn't mean much really.

[James Cloud]

I'm very confused so it'll be 60 FPS in controls and 30 FPS in graphics and 1280 x 720p in complete resolution?

[PickleBrows]

I'm not the best when it comes to the real nitty gritty of game programming but wouldn't 60fps input to 30fps visuals create some catastrophic input lag with the game only being able to show the results of input half as often as it's able to actually detect input in the first place?

 Is this disconnect actually even a thing in the first place? I've never heard of such a thing before!

[Eurisko]

Frame Rates are a visual thing Only. It is how many times the visual output Re-draws and image per second from the input source. The faster the refresh, the better the visual.

This has nothing to do with input controls and everything to do with the hardware/software compatibility. 

[Sonikko]

Nope, it's actually pretty good. It means that controls are as responsive as they are at 60fps, while the game still outputs just 30fps as @Bobnik just said. It's a smart move on their part.

Also, the game being developed on PC could mean many things. If the version they developed is optimized too, they can release that and it'll be a pretty good release. If someone else handles the optimization they might fuck it up.

But the game being developed on PC and not on a devconsole is good news for PC users anyway.

[James Cloud]

5 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

Nope, it's actually pretty good. It means that controls are as responsive as they are at 60fps, while the game still outputs just 30fps as @Bobnik just said. It's a smart move on their part.

 

Ah! ok now that makes more sense since I had to research that.

[Sonikko]

16 minutes ago, Eurisko said:

Frame Rates are a visual thing Only. It is how many times the visual output Re-draws and image per second from the input source. The faster the refresh, the better the visual.

This has nothing to do with input controls and everything to do with the hardware/software compatibility. 

Games usually check for input/physics once per frame, this means that 30fps games check for input 30 times a second, while 60fps games check for input 60 times a second, giving the player double the reaction time a 30fps game would.

Forces is a 30fps game that checks for input twice each time a new frame is displayed, which means it outputs 30fps visually, but you still have double the reaction time you would have in a 30fps game.

It's surely not ideal, since visually, it's still 30fps, but controls will feel more responsive that way.

It's not the first game to do that, actually.

[pppp]

Even the resolution and framerate of this game is a mess, I mean crap. I wasn't even aware that this was possible to do.

[Sonikko]

Well in the game's defense, the Switch's hardware is pretty crappy. Most current-gen ports run at 720p/30fps.

The game's 1080p/60fps on other platforms. If you bought a Switch for performance and not for portability, then you've done a wrong purchase ;).

[JezMM]

1 hour ago, pppp said:

Even the resolution and framerate of this game is a mess, I mean crap. I wasn't even aware that this was possible to do.

Zelda Breath of the Wild is considered one of the greatest games of the decade regardless of what format it was played in, and anyone doing so on Wii U or handheld Switch was doing so at 720p at 30 FPS.  It's not a dealbreaker.

Regardless of how the actual game's content turns out, the fact that they put the effort in to give a version for Nintendo fans and/or those that simply prefer to play their games on the go, was very cool of them because clearly it was a very uncertain task at the start.

[James Cloud]

^This definitely doesn't bother me because 1. Portability and 2. I have discounts for the Switch version so I'm not paying alot while preordering other 3DS/Switch games. Like some say here BotW has a similar thing but its one of the biggest Zelda games despite it not saying anything for Forces atm but it is cool that they made a work around for Switch owners for this game hopefully moving foward for future titles they adapt more to the system to improve it.

[Sonikko]

Well... Boost Sonic at 30fps isn't exactly ideal to be honest. Zelda was fine because it's not a fast game, but 30fps with drops is pretty bad performance in general and for Sonic in particular.

That said I don't know if they could've done better with the Switch hardware, I actually don't think so.

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 hour ago, Sonikko said:

Well... Boost Sonic at 30fps isn't exactly ideal to be honest. Zelda was fine because it's not a fast game, but 30fps with drops is pretty bad performance in general and for Sonic in particular.

Then add onto it that blur effect and the low res textures. It ain't gonna look nice.

[James Cloud]

Honestly I just want this game to come out so this can be over with only a month left to go.

[Blue Wisp]

48 minutes ago, James Cloud said:

Honestly I just want this game to come out so this can be over with only a month left to go.

Oh darling this is just getting started.

If the game turns out good, if the game turns out to be a piece of shit, this fanbase is already split on it. I hope the next game is a little softer on the fanbase.

[James Cloud]

34 minutes ago, Wisphead said:

Oh darling this is just getting started.

If the game turns out good, if the game turns out to be a piece of shit, this fanbase is already split on it. I hope the next game is a little softer on the fanbase.

The Sonic fanbase will complain even if its good to alot of people but the talk of the game won't be as vocal by next year. But its a never ending cycle with Sonic. But next game is far off unless they use alot of assets from Forces which is likely.

[Milo]

5 hours ago, Mayor D said:

 

7 hours ago, Sonikko said:

Well... Boost Sonic at 30fps isn't exactly ideal to be honest. Zelda was fine because it's not a fast game, but 30fps with drops is pretty bad performance in general and for Sonic in particular.

That said I don't know if they could've done better with the Switch hardware, I actually don't think so.

Then add onto it that blur effect and the low res textures. It ain't gonna look nice.

Input lag and dodgy controls has been a consistent complaint with press previews based on the Switch versions of the demos, alongside concerns about struggling framerate performance. The intentions as outlined in the article sound well-meaning; but if reviewer impressions are anything to go by, the decision to have the controls and the game run at different framerates sound like a pretty misguided one overall.

4 hours ago, James Cloud said:

The Sonic fanbase will complain even if its good to alot of people but the talk of the game won't be as vocal by next year. But its a never ending cycle with Sonic. But next game is far off unless they use alot of assets from Forces which is likely.

Even those who don't care for the classic formula aren't going to deny that Mania is at the very least a good game, if not a great one.

The whole "unpleasable fanbase" mantra is just as old and tired as it was six/seven years ago, when Colors and Generations were (and for many still are) widely agreed to be decent games.

E: The article also mentions that development for the Switch version of the game started after the other platforms. More-or-less confirming the Switch hardware wasn't used as the baseline for the console versions of the game. For a platform they said they were planning to support from the beginning before they even knew what it was...that is a really short-sighted decision IMO, especially with how the Switch version is shaping up to be overall.

[Alluusio]

A little bit disappointed they couldn't at least get it running at 60fps but the preview builds were a pretty good indication of that already. Still, if it is at least a stable 30fps, this is miles better than getting another Gens3DS or Lost World 3DS. Here's hoping they can at least manage that, because the amount of framedrops we've seen in the previews is unacceptable.

[James Cloud]

1 hour ago, Alluusio said:

A little bit disappointed they couldn't at least get it running at 60fps but the preview builds were a pretty good indication of that already. Still, if it is at least a stable 30fps, this is miles better than getting another Gens3DS or Lost World 3DS. Here's hoping they can at least manage that, because the amount of framedrops we've seen in the previews is unacceptable.

I'm positive those are fixed if its like Colors, Generations HD and Unleashed HD which also has the same FPS and is stable there's really nothing to worry about at least imo but I need to of course play the final version to see for myself.

[GuyWithThePie]

1 hour ago, James Cloud said:

Unleashed HD which also has the same FPS and is stable

You clearly haven't played Jungle Joyride's daytime stages.

[James Cloud]

59 minutes ago, GuyWithThePie said:

You clearly haven't played Jungle Joyride's daytime stages.

 

Well besides that lol

[Scar]

2 minutes ago, James Cloud said:

 

Well besides that lol

The only stage which had a constant framerate in that whole game was Cool Edge Day.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Honestly, consistency is the big thing here. The E3 demo was 30fps and blurry, sure, but it was inconsistent, and that's what really made it stick out to me. If the game runs at a consistent framerate, I don't mind 30FPS.