Sonic Forces/Mania - Issues in Marketing.

[RictalRose0]

September?! Jesus that's quite a delay for a game that was at first supposed to come out by the end of spring, then moved to the middle summer. Now to the end of summer. That better be just a rumor...

20 minutes ago, pppp said:

SEGA has been doing this to us since 2015, I'm honestly baffled why I was the only one complaining back then.

It's weird. Lost World had a very decent markeeting campaign. They ceirtainly didn't wait till the last two months to start releasing trailers that's for sure. 

[Tracker_TD]

The September date was confirmed a placeholder; hence why it's basically at the end of Summer, innit. How's this "it's September!!" thing still going on? 

[FriendBot]

I guess this is the part where I pretend how professional marketing works, I guess. Not the first time I pretend I know things.

I really don't have any issues with how Mania has been marketed, I was convinced since Day 1. I know exactly what I'm getting into with that game, I have trust with the people behind it that they'll deliver a solid game that's gonna be something I'll go back to for multiple playthroughs in the future. The Sonic social media has been promoting Mania quite a bit as well, with that commerical promoting the Collector's Edition and all that neat stuff. 

To be honest, if people aren't interested with Mania still, then they never will. 

Forces on the other hand is something I do have issues with.

The teaser trailer, tis a shame that it was just one of those CG trailers but eh. At that point, the game isn't going to come out until like over a year. Besides, it was a tease for what the game may entail. When Webber mentioned how they're only going to talk about by 2017, that was a tough pill to swallow but again, reasonable enough. I mean in most 3D main series games, the game usually comes out months after it was first announced. Then the SXSW panel is when we get a better idea on what Forces is about, we knew the title, we saw some gameplay for Modern Sonic and we got a instrumental teaser for the vocal theme for the game. Then recently, Nintendo Direct showed off the Classic gameplay and the tease for the third character and now we have the full stage gameplay of Green Hill Desertized. 

I will be honest, this is the first time I'm indifferent for a Sonic game. I was excited when Lost World and Boom were announced so this is something I didn't expect to feel this meh for Forces. But I guess it's because I'm not really fond of what I was shown so far, Modern's gameplay looks more or less the same with the boostpads galore and uninteresting and basic level design from those 40 seconds. Green Hill looks to be a bit more expansive from Gens' Classic Green Hill but it's not at the same scale as Mania, also really don't like how flat and boostpad/spring heavy that stage had as well. Just overall pretty disappointed that Classic Sonic didn't have any sort of improvements in his physics from Generations, that's a hype killer for me.

But if Nakamura is really hoping people will be more favorable about Forces when E3 comes around, I'll keep an open mind about it.

Overall, I do understand why SEGA has been dripfeeding news about these two titles. SEGA at the past just had a tendency to reveal just about everything they had to offer in those titles so when we get to play those games, we already know what to expect and are no longer surprised about it. 

There's something magical about discovering things in games you didn't knew about prior. And I guess SEGA really wanted to stick with that mentality and good on them for doing so but while I do see just a lot of aggressive indifference, there is a point to it. Forces isn't giving a strong impression.

I don't hate what I saw but I don't love it either, that's just me.

I don't know, again I have no idea how marketing works. I took course on it for college but that was more like an entry-level Marketing course and not something advanced or some shit like that.

I'll just wait it out till E3 and based on what is shown at that time, my mindset about the game will change positively, negatively or more indifference.

[Maxtiis]

I'm not going to pretend I know all the ins and outs of marketing, but I despite the baffling, breadcrumb approach to marketing I've still seen loads of people hyped for Mania, and though Forces hasn't brought nearly as much hype plenty of people are still talking about it. The only way I can see how its happened this way is from word of mouth and media coverage from various gaming news outlets providing the footage we haven't even gotten from Sega directly, which is very clumsy on Sega's part obviously but I'd argue its set the foundation for a good E3 showing as long as they decide to capitalize on it.

[Chili Dawg]

I feel that with Mania, there is only so much you can reveal without revealing the entire game. Think Colors and Generations, when by the time the game was out we had already seen significant amounts of most every zone. I would rather they not do that again. The game's mission statement is pretty clear, it's an honest to god new Sonic game based on the aesthetic and mechanics of the Genesis titles and CD. So let us know it's coming, throw us a little bit here and there, then hopefully ramp things up a little right when the game is about to release and we should be good.

Forces though... Well I'll be blunt, I'm finding that to be a mess. Compare to Mania who has a clear mission in being a new Sonic that feels like the classics, I still have no idea what Sonic Forces is supposed to be at its core... Sonic Unleashed we knew from the start it was high speed with something mysterious in the night. Colors we knew was Sonic in space with alien friends. Sonic Generations we knew was Sonic and Sonic celebrate Sonic. Lost World- new moves, new baddies, worlds in the sky.

When I first saw Forces I was intrigued. I'm not some "no darkness, fluffy bunnies only, final destination type," but that destroyed city with its skies of red and black and everything being on fire kiiiinda raised my eyebrows. But nevertheless I was intrigued by seeing Sonic in a ballsier kinda setting than we'd become accustomed to and was curious to see what kind of new adventure we were in for, and it did pique my interest. Then Classic Sonic showed up. And all I could think was... why? Why can you not make a modern Sonic game with the balls to just be a great modern Sonic game? And then you know the trailer just tells us we aren't getting it for a year, and so all we had was the knowledge that a new Sonic and Sonic team up was in the works, and we had Iizuka ensuring us it was not Generations 2. So we were left to speculate as to how this Sonic Generations: Fury Road would end up actually not being another Sonic Generations.

So for those several months between then and now, many of us were more confused than anything else. The game was at most intriguing and many of us were still just kind of wondering "why?" Now for a teaser trailer to leave you with more questions than answers is fine, but we should start to actually get some answers when the real marketing blitz begins. Once the curtain was finally lifted at SWSX or whatever it's called, I find myself left with many of the same questions about this game that I had since the first unveil? The big one being a simple "why?" What is the core of the game? Why should we want to play it? And so far they have not been able to succinctly answer this question.

When we first saw the gameplay it was revealed this more or less would be Sonic Generations 2. Some of us were happy with that some underwhelmed. Both pf those are fair. It's also revealed Wisps are in there. This raised quite a few eyebrows, and of course it was revealed that we'd be playing as Classic Sonic in addition to a third gameplay style. But it still didn't feel like we were getting much substantial info. As far as I could see, this game just felt like a mish mash of ideas, like after Lost World halted any of Sonic Team's positive momentum from Colors and Gens, several Sonic Team members just pitched a bunch of games based on things they knew people liked in past 3D Sonics and Iizuka just said "spend four years making all of them in one package." You have the darker tone that I know a lot of Adventure era fans have been longing for, you have the boost gameplay that was well well recieved by most critics, wisps because colors is well liked, and of course classic Sonic because ya gotta try to get the retro diehards. But the retro diehards are likely not going to enjoy the darker, Adventure-esque tone, or the boost gameplay, and the people who were looking forward to such things probably had no desire to see classic Sonic return and would be far happier with Tails or Knuckles or Amy or Blaze or Shadow or anyone else playable. And of course there's still this mysterious third gameplay that seems to just be more an anxiety causer than anything else, and I'm just left wondering, what exactly are you making here, SEGA? What is at the core of this, what makes this a cohesive hole? It feels like we're watching Sonic Team develop their prototypes as they go, just sharing ideas with us as they're developed, but the game's been in the works for almost four years now, so why can't they give us a simple explanation as to just what this game is meant to be?

And then of course you have the Nintendo Direct, where it actually came off as though they were actively trying to make the game seem worse as they went along. While Modern Sonic at least gave us a fresh setting to look at, Classic's debut gave us exactly what we were all hoping not to see, a Green Hill zone which actually looked not just like a rehash of Generations, but a worse version of it. And Bubsy! In a world where the fans wanted to play as Sonic and pals, and the critics wanted nothing but more Sonic, you give us all... Sonic, Sonic, and Bubsy. I have no idea who this is supposed to please.

But nevertheless they confirmed that classic Sonic is a rather cynical attempt to pander to nostalgia, which you know, was fine for Generations but you really just gonna do it again? And when the retro focused sect of the fanbase is already being served fabulously with Mania? Generations classic was a godsend compared to Sonic 4, but putting Forces classic right next to Mania will likely only further demonstrate just how much Sonic Team does not grasp the classic gameplay. So the question remains... why?

Now I might be talking more about the product than the marketing but that's the thing- Sonic Forces likely has confused schizophrenic marketing because right now it seems like a confused, schizophrenic product. Sonic Mania makes it very clear what its mission is, and as such practically markets itself. Sonic Forces from what we can see is Sonic Team trying to appeal to pretty much everyone ever and ultimately being pretty meh to the majority of us. The marketing should be able to communicate the fundamental core of the game to us and make us want it. But if the game itself does not have a fundamental core, the marketing will ultimately reflect the game, and throw ideas at us in the hopes something sticks.

Now this could all change by E3. I know SEGA has a thing for being cryptic and mysterious these days, but they need to understand if you're going to be cryptic and mysterious, you need to eventually have some payoff for us. Over the last year or so, it's just felt like teasing leading to more teasing, and so you have to wonder if the reason they can't just get to the point is because there just kind of isn't a point. Like we're in for the Seinfeld of Sonics, the Sonic About Nothing! I do think as we get closer to release SEGA will clear and we'll have a better understanding of some things, but as it stands this game doesn't feel like it knows what it is, and how can SEGA explain it to us if SEGA likely doesn't understand it themselves?

tl;dr: sonic forces does not understand itself well enough to market itself

[RictalRose0]

3 hours ago, Chili Dawg said:

The game's mission statement is pretty clear, it's an honest to god new Sonic game based on the aesthetic and mechanics of the Genesis titles and CD.

Problem is they haven't really showed how exactly it's a new game. I'm really hoping it's not a level compilations remastered and with no story and only one or two new stages at most. So far all I have to know that it's not a copilation is the word of SEGA. Which I don't trust because they said Forces wasn't Generations 2 and well... That was a lie.

[Salamander]

Such concerns are probably why two of the three levels they've mainly showcased are entirely new ones, and of the old levels we know about, we've seen extensive footage exhibiting fresh material for one and have a few short clips which include new elements in another.  It's a little difficult to reveal purely through screenshots or video footage how exactly a classic-style game can have a plot, since it's expressed fairly subtly, but we also have the developer's word that there is a reason old levels are being revisited, and they've teased a new miniboss squad as having a role.  You might also be interested to learn that we've been told that the balance of old to new levels will be around "sixty-forty," and the general thinking is that there'll be at least five entirely new levels.  I wouldn't be surprised if we got a little bit of cutscene footage before the game comes out, too.

As I suggested earlier, while there are elements of the marketing campaign that we can dissect now, it's also true that neither game has been released yet and the marketing is ongoing.  The possibility exists for our concerns to be addressed.

[Tracker_TD]

9 hours ago, RictalRose0 said:

Problem is they haven't really showed how exactly it's a new game. 

Nah.

[CleverSonicUsername]

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 11:22 AM, RictalRose0 said:

September?! Jesus that's quite a delay for a game that was at first supposed to come out by the end of spring, then moved to the middle summer. Now to the end of summer. That better be just a rumor...

 

Some of ya'll need to get better at spotting placeholder dates and evaluating how soon after delays launch dates are announced.

It's Summer 2017 until SEGA issues a firm date or retailers receive the same information from the publisher.  TBA dates always shift between retailers because they have to have a listing that falls within the projected launch window. Easy ways to spot these placeholder dates are if they fall at the end of a month, the end of the quarter, or on a day that is not a Tuesday.

 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Not to revive a dead topic, but with Forces now set to release within a few days, I think now is a good time to revive the topic with an updated message.

Sonic Forces' Marketing is absolutely awful in every single way, shape and form. 

So, my original post in this topic covered up to Green Hill Zone's original debut, and that was back in April. That was over six months ago. So surely we've gotten a steady stream of information, levels, music etc etc.

...

Do I even need to say what has happened since then? Absolutely nothing. Well, to a certain degree at least. It's complicated. Since April, the marketing of this game has gone downhill for mainly one reason and one reason alone. No information. For months upon end since at least E3, there was absolutely no information whatsoever regarding the marketing of Forces. We just kept getting the same six stages over and over again for whatever reason. For some reason, SEGA thought it was a good idea to just keep showing the very first stage that was released was back in Early 2017. 

And then it just kept getting progressively worse from there. From a deal with Hooters of all places (Misaimed Marketing much?), to the same stages repeated over and over again and trailers that weren't very good outside of one story trailer, it seemed like it was just going to be a place of no information whatsoever.

And then suddenly it wasn't. 

Right in the last month and a half before Forces' release, SEGA decides to actually begin releasing more details. From new stages, new pieces of music, new concept art, and more. We began seeing more of the game. But really, it just goes to show how completely botched this marketing was to begin with. Instead of doing this much earlier and giving us a nice steady flow of information to keep the hype going over the months, they just threw it all together at the very last second on Twitter of all places.

It seems like a small detail but if they had used events like Tokyo Game Show, and E3 to their advantage, they could've seriously gained more hype for Forces. Revealing some of these zones in their own trailers? Especially at a big conference? Could've done wonders to get more people interested, but instead, it all ended up just being thrown together at the last second.

So I return to the question I had at the beginning of the topic. Did Forces (and Mania's, to some extent) marketing fail? Frankly? I have to say yes. Because as someone who was excited for Forces since the day it was announced back at that original birthday stream, I have been absolutely disgusted by the marketing. I was there for pretty much every major gaming event that we thought we'd be getting major Forces information because of Motobug streams and every single time, it ended up just being a disappointment seeing the exact same stages over and over again. After everything that's been said, I honestly think we can conclude that Forces' marketing was by all means absolutely terribly done. At the very least, Mania's marketing which started out pretty badly managed to eventually pick up into something half-decent. Forces unfortunately never managed to save itself in terms of marketing.

[Dejimon11]

I'd also like to point out that we're 2 days away from this game and we still haven't seen a single commercial for it.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Just now, Dejimon11 said:

I'd also like to point out that we're 2 days away from this game and we still haven't seen a single commercial for it.

To be fair, a commercial could be incoming, since there's already one made for YouTube advertising.

Japan also has this:

 

[Dee Dude]

Yeah, it's been a joke. And a frustrating one at that.

What the hell was going on with their marketing team? What exactly happened?

Was there too much focus on Mania at the moment? Did they really want the majority of the game to kept a secret? Did they simply not care?

I would've theorized it was the latter because of wanting to keep the general game a secret for whatever reason such as story, characters, etc.

But it doesn't really work because advertising is important regardless of the outcome of your product, even if Forces is seemingly underwhelming in the end and left a negative impact throughout the fan base.

It only mattered to draw attention to those who did care about the game, but it seemed that meant as we apparently only cared about seeing City and Green Hill over and over.

[Gabz Girl]

8 hours ago, Dejimon11 said:

I'd also like to point out that we're 2 days away from this game and we still haven't seen a single commercial for it.

I got a YouTube ad for Sonic Forces a few days ago, the one with Knuckles narrating about the war (omg so serious and intense). Other than that though...

I haven’t seen any posters around, nothing in my local GAME store and as for tv? Well I spotted CoD WWII, Assassins Creed Origins and even Super Mario Odyssey adverts yesterday but nothing for Sonic Forces so far.

Sega has never been great with marketing their games tbh, I remember when Generations came out it mostly sold on word of mouth. This fiasco with Sonic Forces however is a whole new low. To think that before October we only knew about three stages; City, Green Hill and Casino Forest. Chemical Plant was shown off soon after and...uh, yeah. Nothing else until the leaks came out.

Perhaps the reason why everything was so hush hush around Sonic Forces is because of how little content there is in the actual game. Same goes for keeping the story a secret, there really isn’t much there. Certainly not in comparison to SA2 or Sonic 06! Either way, they seriously screwed up with the marketing and I’m not sure if word of mouth will save it like Generations did six years ago. 

[Swing]

You did a very good job in analyzing the marketing of Forces. But their is one big issue: How can anyone markt this game probably if the main driving force for this game is actually the fanservice that only really appeals  towards the biggest Sonic fans? The reason why Crash Bandicoot: N. Sane Trilogy worked so well, is, because the content in this game is mainly gameplay. Forces on the other hand focus way more on story, characters, tone and old concepts like brining Chaos and Shadow back that only the oldest Sonic fans can appreciate.

With this concept of a game I think that no one could really handle this marketing really well. At the end Forces is nothing more than fanservice eye candy for the oldest Sonic fans out there.

[Korke]

2 hours ago, Swing said:

You did a very good job in analyzing the marketing of Forces. But their is one big issue: How can anyone markt this game probably if the main driving force for this game is actually the fanservice that only really appeals  towards the biggest Sonic fans? The reason why Crash Bandicoot: N. Sane Trilogy worked so well, is, because the content in this game is mainly gameplay. Forces on the other hand focus way more on story, characters, tone and old concepts like brining Chaos and Shadow back that only the oldest Sonic fans can appreciate.

With this concept of a game I think that no one could really handle this marketing really well. At the end Forces is nothing more than fanservice eye candy for the oldest Sonic fans out there.

Not to mention that they made the PR spread lies about what's going on in the lore.

[Swing]

1 hour ago, Korke said:

Not to mention that they made the PR spread lies about what's going on in the lore.

What do you mean? Sorry, I didn't followed the whole development of Forces. 

[Korke]

2 hours ago, Swing said:

What do you mean? Sorry, I didn't followed the whole development of Forces. 

About telling people to know the reasons of those recurring characters to join forces with Eggman...