The General 'Murican Politics Thread

[Nepenthe]

Man, we almost made it out of Black History Month on a high note. Get Out is phenomenal. Moonlight won Best Picture. Rachel Dolezal claims to be jobless. A BLM protester snatched down a Confederate flag at a secessionist rally. These assholes who terrorized a black child at his birthday got sent to prison and in Georgia of all places. Things were kinda nice. Then this happens and we can't win for losing:

Jeff Sessions Didn’t Read DOJ’s Chicago Police Report. But He Thinks It’s ‘Anecdotal.’

Quote

Asked by The Huffington Post whether he had read the Civil Rights Division’s investigative reports on the police departments in Chicago and Ferguson, Missouri, Sessions conceded he had not. But, he said, he didn’t think they were necessarily reliable. 

“I have not read those reports, frankly. We’ve had summaries of them, and some of it was pretty anecdotal, and not so scientifically based,” Sessions said. 

 

Quote

Sessions’ position echoed the view he expressed throughout his nomination, when he indicated he subscribed to the “bad apples” view of policing, which holds that police abuse is not systemic in certain departments but the fault of individual rogue actors. Sessions said during his confirmation hearing that it was a “difficult thing” for a city to face allegations they had systemically violated the civil rights of citizens.

“We’ve got to understand that police are the frontline soldiers in the effort to keep the crime under control, along with sheriffs’ deputies,” Sessions said on Monday. “Many departments are not doing well in terms of morale, in terms of following good policies.” 

My people are fucked.

[KHCast]

"systematic oppression is not a issue" is all I need to hear from privileged whitey tidies for me to stop taking whatever they say seriously. Especially when supposed officials blatantly ignore evidence 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Um...so another bit of shocking news, and I'm not sure how any of you would take this, but...

Trump apparently signed an EO for helping out HBCU (That's Historically Black Colleges & Universities for those who don't know).

My reaction:

'

Really, I'm still skeptical of it in general as it might be him trying to score some political points with people he clearly pissed off, but I have to admit this is quite an interesting move in spite of that. Now let's see if he can do better, because his administration still has a sour as fuck start. He can start by putting effort in curbing right wing terrorism just as much as he's trying to stop Islamic extremists.

EDIT -- And stop with the goddamn Tweeting Tantrums and Fake News/Alternative Facts crap.

Just a bunch of ups and downs at the moment.

[-Robin-]

Trump signing the EO for the HBCUs is a positive thing. No matter the political leverage involved in it.

 

Just a shame that DeVos went and undid all the goodwill and made her the highlight by saying that HBCUs were the pioneer of "school choice."

 

You know, HBCUs, That thing the black community made as a direct counterpoint to the racial barriers imposed by damn near every other post-secondary educational institution prior to 1964. Until that year, the only means for black Americans had to receive the educational background non-black Americans got from other institutions so they could compete in the job market.

 

Choice. The only available recourse for black Americans to be economically competitive prior to the Civil Rights Act was a Choice in DeVos's world. Fuck. 

[Tara]

It's more than likely just something to give FOX News a reason to say "See?  Not racist!"  But it is a nice thing, nevertheless, I guess.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I mean, I'm not denying that what DeVos said was stupid, because quite frankly that was a given.

I'm more surprised that Trump even did this of all things. Yeah, it's definitely something Fox News can pick up on and say he isn't racist and might be a clever way for this administration to deflect such accusations, but even considering that it definitely comes off as a slap to the face for actual racists who voted Trump. 

[Nepenthe]

So Jeff Sessions lied to the Senate, potentially under oath, about having contact with Russia's ambassador, twice. This is sheisty.

[Patticus]

If this engulfs Sessions as the near identical charges of lying about contact with the Russian ambassador engulfed Flynn, it could prove far more embarrassing to Trump - potentially ruining his big "reset" moment. Expect a great deal more resistance from the GOP this time though - they won't want to let another big Trumpian appointee fall so soon.

It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

[Meta77]

Not like he called them. Once was as he was coming off stage.  sure you don't lie about it but if anyone here has ever given and I highly doubt it a presentation at a benefit. Nota school speech. It's pretty hard to stop someone from reaching out to say. Hey good speech.  so you looking to do so and so. But we'll see how it plays out.  no quotes if you can help it. I usually like to pop in here every now and again bit it's way to negative usually

[Patticus]

Mike Pence used personal email for state business — and was hacked.

Quote

INDIANAPOLIS — Vice President Mike Pence routinely used a private email account to conduct public business as governor of Indiana, at times discussing sensitive matters and homeland security issues.

Emails released to The Indianapolis Star in response to a public records request show Pence communicated via his personal AOL account with top advisers on topics ranging from security gates at the governor’s residence to the state’s response to terror attacks across the globe. In one email, Pence’s top state homeland security adviser relayed an update from the FBI regarding the arrests of several men on federal terror-related charges.

Cybersecurity experts say the emails raise concerns about whether such sensitive information was adequately protected from hackers, given that personal accounts like Pence's are typically less secure than government email accounts. In fact, Pence's personal account was hacked last summer.

Furthermore, advocates for open government expressed concerns about transparency because personal emails aren't immediately captured on state servers that are searched in response to public records requests.
...
Cybersecurity experts say Pence’s emails were likely just as insecure as Clinton’s. While there has been speculation about whether Clinton's emails were hacked, Pence’s account was actually compromised last summer by a scammer who sent an email to his contacts claiming Pence and his wife were stranded in the Philippines and in urgent need of money.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/03/02/mike-pence-private-email/98637782

Meanwhile, after becoming quickly engulfed by Trump's Russia scandal thanks to the news that he lied to the Senate about speaking with the Russian ambassador, AG Jeff Sessions has formally recused himself from any and all probes involving the presidential election, including the investigation of the Trump campaign's connection to Russia. It's a move that'll save his bacon and allow Republicans to say "It's been dealt with, let's all move on," but let's face it - we won't. Nor should we. Sessions lied under oath, and that's a felony.

Also in the news, it turns out that Jared Kushner was present for a 20 minute meeting between Flynn and the Russian Ambassador last December, and former Trump adviser Carter Page met with him at the same luncheon Sessions lied about.

When the White House asserts that the Trump campaign had little to no contact with the Russians, we know that to be a lie. We need to know the fullest extent of Russian involvement in the election, and that process begins with the Trump campaign. Who else had contact?What position do they hold, if any, in the administration? What did the president know, and when did he know it?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Why do I get the feeling that Trump being elected and in this position might be seen as a blessing in disguise for those on the left who are adamant against this administration? 

[Tornado]

In 2017 a high ranking strongly anti-drug politician named Sessions was embroiled in a humongous scandal only weeks into a new Presidency.

In 1993 a high ranking strongly anti-drug politician named Sessions was embroiled in a humongous scandal only weeks into a new Presidency.

 

 

I don't have a point with this. I just found it amusing.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I almost thought you meant William S. Sessions for a minute.

[Tornado]

I did. Clinton threw his ass out within a couple months.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

11 hours ago, Tornado said:

I did. Clinton threw his ass out within a couple months.

Bruh, you threw me off with "politician" -- guy was an FBI director when that happened. 

I get what you're saying tho, so no biggie.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

On 3/2/2017 at 9:16 AM, Meta77 said:

Not like he called them. Once was as he was coming off stage.  sure you don't lie about it but if anyone here has ever given and I highly doubt it a presentation at a benefit. Nota school speech. It's pretty hard to stop someone from reaching out to say. Hey good speech.  so you looking to do so and so. But we'll see how it plays out.  no quotes if you can help it. I usually like to pop in here every now and again bit it's way to negative usually

Eh the speech was alright. I really do hope he will do everything he says he will do. What I really want him to do is care about the environment.

[Tornado]

On 3/2/2017 at 8:53 PM, Patticus said:

were done in her capacity as Secretary of State of the United States, was done exclusively in lieu of using any public system in place, and her immediate response was to lie and try and cover the whole thing up. For months.

Pence's private emails (while a questionable choice of client if only for the amusement that people still use AOL) were done in his capacity as governor of a state in flyover country, was specifically allowed by state law (whereas State department communication of that nature was frowned upon, and ultimately outlawed outright), was done in addition to utilizing the official channels, and he's already admitted to doing it.

 

 

 

 

It's a comparison that works because the word "email" is in the title and nothing more; and after people spending 12 months insisting how much of a witch-hunt the whole ordeal was against her only to do such an about-face only makes the probe against her look more legitimate than it actually was. Pence is enough of a scumbag that he certainly has some juicy (possibly cured gay) skeletons hiding in his closet. Find those instead of just throwing shit at the wall.

[Patticus]

If Clinton had only been found to have used a private email account to conduct some government business during her tenure as a Senator, the uproar from the GOP would have been the same, FBI investigation or no. I understand that what Clinton did was a very serious no-no, but it seems like every bad thing she was accused of doing (legitimately and no) has been done by the Trump administration - conflicts of interest, pay for play, Goldman Sachs everywhere, the foundation, shady connections to foreign countries, now this email thing, tomorrow something else, etc.

The "but her emails" meme is all about underscoring how utterly pathetic it was to use Clinton's email debacle as a central reason to avoid voting for her, when Trump is obviously much more shady and irresponsible; that if Trump brings about an apocalyptic event, his fans will justify it with her emails.

[Tornado]

10 minutes ago, Patticus said:

If Clinton had only been found to have used a private email account to conduct some government business during her tenure as a Senator, the uproar from the GOP would have been the same

But she wasn't, so the point is moot when you're making a comparison to someone who wasn't even as high as a US senator in the pecking order. "This email thing" isn't in the time zone of "Hilary's email thing", and since even hers was laughably overblown because of how stupidly she handled it that should give an indication about how much non-news this is. Trump probably used a private email address to do the stuff he did before being elected for national office too; and it holds about as much relevance to anything in the article you linked.

 

Trump's administration is doing enough shady and irresponsible things in the open that you don't need to fabricate cloak and dagger ones just so you can have a Gotcha that, when actually broken down, essentially amounts to "See, people in Trump's campaign are just as shady and irresponsible as the candidate we wanted to elect as well!"

[Patticus]

The fact that Pence committed the same mistake Clinton did at the height of her email scandal, and was actually for realsies hacked isn't completely non-news, given that he's not still some unknown backwater politician any more - he's the Vice President. You know, a person privy to among the most secret of state secrets, the first in line to the presidency. Yes, at the time of the event Pence was relatively a low-ranking politician, and in fact it is legal in Indiana for Pence to do what he did, but it is still troubling as there was apparently information contained in the emails too sensitive not to redact, and its coming out generally makes him a tremendous hypocrite.

 

In other news, why hasn't the Russia scandal swallowed up Tillerson yet? Rachel Maddow did a piece 'tother day, wherein she made the assertion that he and Trump had never met before election day. Combine that with his being awarded the "Friend of Russia" award, and he looks perhaps more suspect than the almost dozen other known Trump staff/surrogates et al who met with Russian officials.

[Tornado]

1 hour ago, Patticus said:

The fact that Pence committed the same mistake Clinton did at the height of her email scandal

And what mistake, specifically, would that be? Because simply having a private server to conduct government business (which is about the extent of the similarities between Pence and Clinton besides, even though even then he was the governor of a jerkwater state and she was fourth in line for the Presidency) was not what Clinton's email scandal was actually about. If it had been, she would have simply had to say "Condi and Powell had one too" and it probably would have ran out of steam then; because what she had been doing with it was legal at the time anyway even if it was frowned upon. And since all of Pence's emails from his time as governor seem to be in the hands of the state government now, even that he used it to conduct sensitive business doesn't fit the comparison.

 

 

 

But her unprecedented use of one? And the complete lack of oversight or transparency that it allowed during investigations of it (both in the email case itself and in Benghazi)? And her repeatedly saying things about it that turned out to be somewhat less than the truth when investigators went looking? Even as the scandal itself far outstripped any potential reality of wrongdoing (she would have to be taking screenshots of troop locations and uploading them to tumblr for the reality to match what Republicans were claiming), there were legitimate red flags that kept shooting up regarding what had happened while she was SecState no matter who she had been. And those were a bit more pertinent facts to the comparison than "she had a private email, and he had a private email, so he's a hypocrite"; just like how "confidential" doesn't mean the same thing as "classified".

[Patticus]

Alright, I think my arguments on this have pretty much all been worn out, I'll fly my white flag of surrender. Except there is this last thing: Non-news or not, legal or not, same league or not, the optics of Mike Pence making use of a private email account/server are terrible for an administration continually lurching from one scandalous revelation to the next - an administration lead by a man who habitually projects his own faults, misdeeds and crimes onto people and organizations he wants to ruin.

It's also notable because Pence has remained relatively unscathed by the barrages of leaks and whatnot. He was supposed to be the squeaky clean one, which he pretty much still is, except for a couple of scuffs here and there.

 

Anyway, speaking of projecting... what's Trump up to now?

Is he projecting again, trying to make the case for locking up Obama, to keep him from rallying the country against him? Did he accidentally watch a Watergate documentary, fall asleep and dream that he was the victim? Is he mistaking the purpose of an intelligence operation related to the suspected Russian interference in the election?

I think he's been poring over intelligence files pertaining to him - as he can legally do at will now - and completely misunderstood an operation related to the Trump campaign/transition's suspected collusion with Russia.

[CleverSonicUsername]

I don't keep my finger on the pulse of Infowars, but my initial reaction to those tweets was that he saw that on some rag and just assume it was true, then ran hog wild with it.

 

[Tornado]

3 hours ago, Patticus said:

Non-news or not, legal or not, same league or not, the optics of Mike Pence making use of a private email account/server are terrible for an administration continually lurching from one scandalous revelation to the next - an administration lead by a man who habitually projects his own faults, misdeeds and crimes onto people and organizations he wants to ruin.

I don't have any problem with that. It's definitely a source of amusement that they picked Pence for the inoffensive white guy role that Biden had and he's screwing that up. I don't even, really, have a problem with noting how vicious Trump/Pence were towards Hillary being a bit pretentious/hypocritical since Pence was doing something a bit similar; especially when Trump's attacks against her weren't as specifically targeted/carefully worded as Pence's. My issue lies more with how similar it is claimed to have actually been.

 

 

 

And if any of them are dumb enough to do something similar now... Fuck it, open season on the entire administration.

[-Robin-]

1) The president is not allowed to authorize wiretapping. That falls to the FBI, with the approval by a federal judge with probable cause.

2) Did Trump just admit that there was probable cause between him and Russia to authorize wiretapping in the first place?