The General American Politics Thread

[Jacky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og35U0d6WKY

well said, nick fury.

[Barry the Nomad]

Best political ad ever.

I actually have some friends with that bullshit "all politicians are the same" attitude. They need to wake the fuck up.

[Linkabel]

So a private equity firm bought into a company that was headed into obsolescence anyway, and after a year or so they stripped it's assets and apparently hastened a fall that probably would have happened regardless. The article even says that the KB Toys was on the way out because of its own inability to compete in the modern world, but then tried to spin that as being the fault of Romney's company too because they didn't try to save it.

I'm just not seeing the problem here.

Well I think the problem they are trying to show is that Bain Capital will come put a little bit of money of their own money, take bank loans, and then pull out and leave the extra bank debt to an already dying company. This in the long run didn't help companies in trouble or even Bain Capital who was not making a lot of profit BUT did put money in Romney's hands (and a few of the higher ups).

So it's not so much that they are blaming him for KB Toys or other companies demise but so much that they are putting holes in Romney's argument that he saves jobs and made a lot of gain for Bain Capital...which he didn't.

Edited September 27, 2012 by TheBlueWind

[Balding Spider]

*Awaits Fox News reaction to that ad*

[Patticus]

Fox's reaction is going to be something along the lines of, "Obama enlists liberal Hollywood socialist and fellow black man to scare voters into voting for him."

[Stritix]

Who should I vote for?

[Patticus]

Who should I vote for?

[Nepenthe]

The guy who doesn't think little of you for being "entitled" to food. That's who you should vote for.

[Stritix]

Are you actually seriously asking us who to vote for?

Yeah. I don't follow this stuff.

The guy who doesn't think little of you for being "entitled" to food. That's who you should vote for.

Who?

[Tornado]

Vote for Lincoln. Heard he's not a fan of that slavery thing, and modern public opinion tends to be that slavery is bad.

Well I think the problem they are trying to show is that Bain Capital will come put a little bit of money of their own money, take bank loans, and then pull out and leave the extra bank debt to an already dying company.

That's my point. A private equity firm's only responsibilities are towards their investors. And what happened with KB Toys is a heinous and awful and immoral thing that should stop... until people realize that equity firms do that all the time. And that equity firms are where most people have their retirement investments. And that when they push the equity firms they've invested with to aggressively increase the value of their retirement plans, corporate raiding is a common (and relatively safe) tactic. So they are outraged right up to the point where they realize that doing anything about it would make them worse off.

Plus, even the corporate raiding angle is sketchy, since if that was the only goal they probably would have done it a lot faster than they did. What is more likely is that they bought into the chain with the option of doing what they ultimately did, but gave KB a fiscal year to turn their situation around. There's nothing to suggest that this is like a Gordon Gekko-style hostile takeover purely for the purposes of stripping the joint; and the fact that KB was already failing to keep its market position implies that the typical objections to the practice (as seen in the movie Wall Street, or the DaimlerChrysler merger of 15 years ago, or the G4/TechTV farce of 10 years ago), where a more powerful company buys what was up to that point successful upstart just to take their shit and force them out of the market, doesn't apply.

Based on what that excerpt from the article says and some poking around I've done since I read it, it looks very much like Bain invested into it in the hopes they would turn themselves around and lead to a massive profit, and when they didn't after a year or so they stripped it down so they could get their money back out and make at least something off of it.

This in the long run didn't help companies in trouble or even Bain Capital who was not making a lot of profit BUT did put money in Romney's hands (and a few of the higher ups).

Bain Capital turned around almost immediately after KB Toys went under and took part in the buyout of Toys R' Us, who now has no major competitors as far as dedicated toy stores. So they might very well have been playing the long game from the start.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Tornado

[Nepenthe]

Wait, you're old enough to vote, but haven't been following the basic political discourse of the election, but want someone to decide for you who to vote for anyway? :|

That is terrible apathy. You really should take to reading about their platforms.

(But no seriously, vote for Obama.)

[Stritix]

Wait, you're old enough to vote, but haven't been following the basic political discourse of the election, but want someone to decide for you who to vote for anyway? :|

That is terrible apathy. You really should take to reading about their platforms.

It doesn't interest me. The election is most likely fixed anyway.

Anyway. Lincoln or Obama? Which one? I'm getting mixed opinions.

[Tornado]

If you know so little about this upcoming election cycle that you can't even get an obvious satire of the fact that you don't know anything about the election cycle because you don't even know who is running (Lincoln died 150 years ago, BTW), it doesn't really matter who you are told to vote for.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Tornado

[Stritix]

I have no interest in this. I'm basically giving one of you another vote. I don't see the problem here.

(Lincoln died 150 years ago, BTW)

I suggest you sense the sarcasm.

[Tornado]

I suggest you stop wasting everyone's time and go look at least some of this up yourself. No one here is going to take a break from having detailed debates on the candidates just to give you an extended summary of both of their positions because you're too lazy to do it yourself.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Tornado

[Nepenthe]

The problem we have is that an ignorant voter is just as bad as an apathetic one. For what little you know, you could be helping to vote in the next Nixon just because we told you to. How in the world do you get an idea on who the candidates are and make what you feel is the best decision unless you bother to get engaged in the campaigning? You don't have to become a political analyst, but at least understand some of the basic differences between the two guys running. :|

[Patticus]

Nixon was an absolute saint compared to today's Republican would-be and actual nominees.

Anyway, as bad as Romney is, at least he's breaking new ground for the Republican Party:

http://www.thedailyd...ke-mitt-romney/

And those numbers for R-money were taken before the whole '47%' fiasco. Before.

[Stritix]

I suggest you stop wasting everyone's time and go look at least some of this up yourself. No one here is going to take a break from having detailed debates on the candidates just to give you an extended summary of both of their positions because you're too lazy to do it yourself.

That isn't what I'm asking for. I'm asking for a simple name. I already got one, and someone suggested Obama, so I'll vote for him. There's a difference between not having interest, and being lazy. I don't want to waste the vote, but I also don't want to waste my time on this. I thought my vote would be better off with one of you.

[Balding Spider]

Fox's reaction is going to be something along the lines of, "Obama enlists liberal Hollywood socialist and fellow black man to scare voters into voting for him."

Then any other credible news network will just point to this and shut Fox the fuck down.

Paid for the Jewish Council for Education and Research, www.jcer.info, NOT AUTHORIZED BY ANY CANDIDATE OR CANDIDATES COMMITTEE.

[Patticus]

That isn't what I'm asking for. I'm asking for a simple name. I already got one, and someone suggested Obama, so I'll vote for him. There's a difference between not having interest, and being lazy. I don't want to waste the vote, but I also don't want to waste my time on this. I thought my vote would be better off with one of you.

Obama is the better candidate by default; Romney just keeps on inserting his foot in his mouth and shooting said foot. Not a great thing for a man wanting to be president to do.

[-Robin-]

As far as polls go, Obama's lead in swing states is increasing.

COLUMBUS, Ohio — For weeks, Republicans in Ohio have been watching with worry that the state’s vital 18 electoral votes were trending away from Mitt Romney. The anxiety has been similar in Florida, where Republicans are concerned that President Obama is gaining the upper hand in the fight for the state’s 29 electoral votes.

Those fears are affirmed in the findings of the latest Quinnipiac University/New York Times/CBS News polls of likely voters in both states, which show that Mr. Obama has widened his lead over Mr. Romney and is outperforming him on nearly every major campaign issue, even though about half said they were disappointed in Mr. Obama’s presidency.

The polls, along with interviews with supporters and advisers in the nation’s two largest battleground states, lay bare an increasingly urgent challenge facing Mr. Romney as he prepares for his next chance to move the race in his favor, at the first debate with Mr. Obama next week. Mr. Romney’s burden is no longer to win over undecided voters, but also to woo back the voters who seem to be growing a little comfortable with the idea of a second term for Mr. Obama.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/26/us/politics/polls-show-obama-widening-lead-in-ohio-and-florida.html?pagewanted=all&_moc.semityn.www

Romney's camp is doubting these polls are legitimate, and in the end, they are still just polls. But, with roughly 45 days until the election, these polls are going to matter a lot as time goes on.

[Patticus]

Fox too is doubting the poll numbers, but in all honest, I don't think that either group would be accepting of any poll that didn't show Romney ahead of Obama.

And of course, any poll that showed that would be lauded as a bastion of truth and honesty and a clear forerunner of November 7th.

Because that's just the way the denizens of Bullshit Mountain work.

[Stritix]

Obama is the better candidate by default; Romney just keeps on inserting his foot in his mouth and shooting said foot. Not a great thing for a man wanting to be president to do.

Thank you.

[Patticus]

Just imagine, if the president is re-elected with a filibuster-proof majority in the house(s?), the Democrats will be able to take all of the really useful jobs bills, veteran care bills etc which the GOP has consistently blocked, and it'll be able to ram them all through to much fanfare, giving the party a powerful suite of victories going into the midterm elections.

[Tornado]

I think the last thing we need to see is some second version of the Tea Party spring up and gain traction just in time for 2016.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Tornado