The General American Politics Thread

[Tani Coyote]

It sounds like this election is basically going to be a desperate attempt of both Trump and Clinton to pick up all the scattered elements that weren't around them from the beginning.

I wish I knew what other Sanders supporters were thinking. I'm fearful Trump will have more success in picking up conservatives, because conservatives seem to have an easier time unifying than liberals.

[Nepenthe]

Good thing Trump is still polling pretty terribly with basically every minority ever or we'd be in actual trouble right about now.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

12 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Carly Fiorina is a fucking loon. If you're actually serious about supporting Trump now you actually got real lucky with this pick, although the fact that he's Mitt Romney 2.0 doesn't bode well for the long run considering 1.) Mitt Romney 1.0 couldn't win his last election because he wasn't pure enough, and 2.) He's criticized Trump before.

Conservative women hardly get any spotlight though most have intelligent minds (notice how I say most, Palin doesn't count) in my opinion, so I actually wanted a conservative woman to be US president for that reason; but it's never gonna happen.

Many of the candidates have criticised Trump before (Carson being one and I wanted him to win) but now they are on his side. They do criticise candidates just for the views but when they cannot win, they have no choice but to support the winner. 

As a note: I lean towards Trump because as an asian woman, he's my best bet (he has a relatively large fanbase with asian people) as opposed to Clinton, plus I don't trust her.... I wish I did because I'd love a woman president but yeah. If I am gonna live in this country I need someone who will benefit me and other asian people.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

4 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

Conservative women hardly get any spotlight though most have intelligent minds (notice how I say most, Palin doesn't count) in my opinion, so I actually wanted a conservative woman to be US president for that reason; but it's never gonna happen.

Many of the candidates have criticised Trump before (Carson being one and I wanted him to win) but now they are on his side. They do criticise candidates just for the views but when they cannot win, they have no choice but to support the winner. 

As a note: I lean towards Trump because as an asian woman, he's my best bet (he has a relatively large fanbase with asian people) as opposed to Clinton, plus I don't trust her.... I wish I did because I'd love a woman president but yeah. 

Considering you're still in a minority, Trump is probably more likely to crush you than help you. The only person he helps is himself; everyone else is with him or in his way.

[Nepenthe]

Carly Fiorina would not be president if she were picked and by some miracle Trump were elected. Trump would have to die or resign for that to happen, and he's so concerned with getting power and making a mockery of the American political process that he wouldn't give that up to a person who he thinks shouldn't even have full bodily autonomy in the first place.

And Mike Pence wasn't a presidential candidate when he made his remarks so he had no horse in the race. He criticized Trump because he genuinely felt in his heart that you shouldn't shit on and undermine judges for being born Hispanic just because they're not giving you the ruling that you want by applying proper legal procedure and you know you've pissed off Hispanic populations by being racist.

I'm also not sure why you have trust issues with Hillary when Trump has basically lied about every single thing he's said in the public eye. We're not even all that sure about how much money the dude really has because he reports numbers that don't align with the reality of his failed financial ventures and struggling campaign revenue.

[Tani Coyote]

I must concur that the "Hillary's a liar!" narrative is really delicious given how Trump is far, far worse.

Plus he outright quotes unreliable sources. Case in point: he cited a poll that found over 50% of American Muslims support sharia law. Pretty much every polling agency considers the group that took that poll to be unprofessional.

But it's all a vast left wing conspiracy, right?

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

4 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Carly Fiorina would not be president if she were picked and by some miracle Trump were elected. Trump would have to die or resign for that to happen, and he's so concerned with getting power and making a mockery of the American political process that he wouldn't give that up to a person who he thinks shouldn't even have full bodily autonomy in the first place.

And Mike Pence wasn't a presidential candidate when he made his remarks so he had no horse in the race. He criticized Trump because he genuinely felt in his heart that you shouldn't shit on and undermine judges for being born Hispanic just because they're not giving you the ruling that you want by applying proper legal procedure and you know you've pissed off Hispanic populations by being racist.

I'm also not sure why you have trust issues with Hillary when Trump has basically lied about every single thing he's said in the public eye. We're not even all that sure about how much money the dude really has because he reports numbers that don't align with the reality of his failed financial ventures and struggling campaign revenue.

I find him  to be the most blunt and honest candidate out there. Example being how tough he was on China, yet Chinese people took it to heart and rallied behind him. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

8 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

I find him  to be the most blunt and honest candidate out there. Example being how tough he was on China, yet Chinese people took it to heart and rallied behind him. 

That does not equate to a capable politician who knows what he'll be doing as head of state. Being blunt and honest has nothing to do with a competent foreign or domestic policy - there's a reason Political science, research, and analysis is even a thing. Nor does it even mean that someone knows what they're talking about - which Trump has shown numerous times that he doesn't.

Being tough on China hardly means anything if you can't back it up - and I'm more inclined to believe the Chinese people (I'm assuming you mean the one's actually living in China) are rallying behind him as a backhanded insult to American power mainly because if he were to screw things up as president that would allow China to grow in power.

[Tani Coyote]

8 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

I find him  to be the most blunt and honest candidate out there. Example being how tough he was on China, yet Chinese people took it to heart and rallied behind him. 

Do you mean Chinese Chinese, or Chinese Americans?

Chinese Americans rallying behind Trump's "tough on China" policy wouldn't be that surprising, given they, well, don't live in China. Being of an immigrant background doesn't make you a fifth column, especially if you're second or third generation and have thus lived here most of your life.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Chinese Americans, sorry I forgot to add that. Also a lot of Japanese people support him to which was what made me inclined to support him... most Asian people do actually because of his blunt approach. If this guy could benefit people like myself, then I have no choice. Who is is going to stick up for us?  

[Nepenthe]

Trump is blunt, but he's not honest. 75% of the compiled statements he has made have been confirmed to be lies compared to just 27% of what statements have been compiled for Hilary, which is literally only a single percentage point higher than Obama's statements and 2 points less than Bernie.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I looked at the links.... interesting how he lies a lot. Maybe he's being blunt as a means gaining votes but yeah. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

13 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

Chinese Americans, sorry I forgot to add that. Also a lot of Japanese people support him to which was what made me inclined to support him... most Asian people do actually because of his blunt approach. If this guy could benefit people like myself, then I have no choice. Who is is going to stick up for us?  

Litterally anyone but Trump who actually has a better clue of what they're talking about and what they'll be dealing with on the world stage?

A blunt approach means nothing if you don't know how to handle the workings of the presidency - a businessman who works in making products, business deals, and other such things that are primarily economic in nature does not have the same capability of running the presidency which has the added power of being in control of military power and national secrets, dealing with the likely headache two other branches that have powers he or she cannot have by law and has to work with to get anything done (and has very little way of circumventing without putting himself in legal trouble that money likely won't get them out of), and dealing with other countries that have goals that deal with things more unscrupulous than economics.

[-Robin-]

6 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

I looked at the links.... interesting how he lies a lot. Maybe he's being blunt as a means gaining votes but yeah. 

Well, yeah. The average voter genuinely favors old-fashioned bravado regardless if the bravado is misplaced or not.

 

Kerry saw his own numbers drop in 2004 because his own opinions changed and he consequently "flip-flopped" on such issues.

 

As long as you sound confident on issues, and remain confident and keep to that position to the end of time, you will get support. There's a reason right wing ideologues immediately mark certain conservatives RINOS because they made concessions on any one thing. That extends to the voter bloc as well eventually.

[Tani Coyote]

25 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

most Asian people do actually because of his blunt approach.

Call it a hunch, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of it comes down to class interest. Because Asians are a fairly well to do group compared to whites, it's not too strange they back the same Party that wealthy white people do.

25 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

Who is is going to stick up for us?  

Let's think about this for a moment.

Which Party has more of a tendency to condemn the atomic bombings, feels we should apologize to Japan for it, and likewise feels we should be apologetic about internment? Which Party is quick to condemn those who dare try and stain the glorious Manifest Destiny of American history?

The GOP is not the Party of minority rights. They may hold up Asians as a model minority, but it's very apparent that this is based on class interests rather than anything resembling respect for Asian people.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I have noticed we as a group do pretty well in America so thus going for the person that would protect our interest is the reason. Assuming that him deporting people back to their own country was a joke. 

[Dizcrybe]

14 hours ago, Mikyeong said:

I have noticed we as a group do pretty well in America so thus going for the person that would protect our interest is the reason. Assuming that him deporting people back to their own country was a joke. 

...you're kidding, right? You really think that after proudly stating he would deport Muslims that he would turn around and go "LOL nah I'm just playin'"?

[Nepenthe]

Even assuming it was a joke and Trump was never seriously going to advocate for it, why is anyone going to bat for a candidate that blatantly undermines the dignity, humanity, and agency of American citizens? Why is anyone who supports Trump yet also claims solidarity with minorities okay with the racist rhetoric that Trump has used in order to further his own causes? Why is inherently saying whatever is on your mind considered a virtue even if what you're saying is genuinely heinous? If I seriously called out a member I was reprimanding on their race in the process, harming them, would you continue to respect me as a moderator or a person even if I said I was joking and took away the strike?

[Patticus]

Three things about the Trump/Pence merger:

1. Pence has been saying a bunch of stuff about Trump's policies that make it obvious he vehemently disagrees with them, e.g. finding the idea of a ban on Muslims unconstitutional. Obviously, making that issue go away is going to be problematic, and will likely be a theme of the VP debate.

2. Trump/Pence would have been shortened to TP eventually. TP being common parlance for Toilet Paper, the two would inevitably find themselves memed online. See below... but first, #3:

3. The logo. THE LOGO.

Trump's shaft is literally all up in Pence's hole.

How did anybody think this was a good idea? He should have just gone for Christie, at least all of those jokes have been and gone. This just invites even more.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

57 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Even assuming it was a joke and Trump was never seriously going to advocate for it, why is anyone going to bat for a candidate that blatantly undermines the dignity, humanity, and agency of American citizens? Why is anyone who supports Trump yet also claims solidarity with minorities okay with the racist rhetoric that Trump has used in order to further his own causes? Why is inherently saying whatever is on your mind considered a virtue even if what you're saying is genuinely heinous? If I seriously called out a member I was reprimanding on their race in the process, harming them, would you continue to respect me as a moderator or a person even if I said I was joking and took away the strike?

I am not OK with his racist remarks. I do feel is is saying all this stuff in order to win the extreme vote though and it's not how he really feels though. I mean this is the same dude who took heat for wanting socialist policies of taxing the rich more, so to many he is considered a RINO. He confuses me greatly. 

[Hyp3hat]

1 hour ago, Mikyeong said:

I am not OK with his racist remarks. I do feel is is saying all this stuff in order to win the extreme vote though and it's not how he really feels though. I mean this is the same dude who took heat for wanting socialist policies of taxing the rich more, so to many he is considered a RINO. He confuses me greatly. 

I mean, if Trump genuinely believed that Mexican people were lovely human beings, how could he sleep at night after his campaign is endorsed by KKK leaders? And, if he was just playing the crazies to get into the White House, how is that a good thing? Do you want someone who spouts bigotry just to get what they want in the White House?

[Tornado]

3 hours ago, Dizcrybe said:

...you're kidding, right? You really think that after proudly stating he would deport Muslims that he would turn around and go "LOL nah I'm just playin'"?

14 minutes ago, Hyp3hat said:

I mean, if Trump genuinely believed that Mexican people were lovely human beings, how could he sleep at night after his campaign is endorsed by KKK leaders?

Not to sound like a dick, but do either of you have any experience with the sort of stuff Donald Trump did before he decided to run for President?

[Hyp3hat]

Just now, Tornado said:

Not to sound like a dick, but do either of you have any experience with the sort of stuff Donald Trump did before he decided to run for President?

Haha, I feel you, but amassing the support of racists to take over the Presidency is definitely the next level from suing the people who built your hotels when they asked for payment and destroying the economy of Atlantic City. 

... He could declare America bankrupt and flee with the Treasury, though. That could work. 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

4 minutes ago, Tornado said:

Not to sound like a dick, but do either of you have any experience with the sort of stuff Donald Trump did before he decided to run for President?

My only experience with him was watching him on The Apprentice with my parents when I was younger and the crazy loon right now. Why, is he different somehow?

[Nepenthe]

So apparently Trump didn't actually want Pence as his running mate. This continues to be a shitshow.