Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

[Safka]

I really want to see Casino Night, I think it's one of the best stages in all of gaming. I think it's a safe bet that it will be remixed in Mania.

Perhaps they could take some inspiration from Casinopolis from Sonic Adventure too, pay some love to the 3D titles and also freshen up Casino Night. I mean, technically they are the same stage.

[Indigo Rush]

Not seeing either Casino Night or Carnival Night would hurt me on a pretty deep level, to be honest.

[Celestia]

If we don't see a brand new casino level, yeah, it'd suck to not see one of 'em.

I almost want Carnival Night just for the inevitable jokes about the return of the barrels.

[TheOcelot]

I'd love a Carnival Night/Casino Night stage, perhaps using this carnival theme from Sonic Crackers?

[Salamander]

Studiopolis scratches the casino itch for me, personally, and the last few Sonic games have all had very similar casino-themed levels.  But in the hypothetical situation of Mania being so massive it could fit two revisited zones from each classic game, I'd be happy to see Carnival Night again.

[Tracker_TD]

Studiopolis is less-so Casino itch and more Stardust Speedway-itch imo; if anything I'd say it rules that out, much as I love that stage. 

[Jango]

But what about freaking Hidrocity or Ice Cap? If neither of these are in Mania... I'm gonna buy only FIVE copies of this game ?

[Pawn]

1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

Studiopolis is less-so Casino itch and more Stardust Speedway-itch imo; if anything I'd say it rules that out, much as I love that stage. 

I agree. It would also be odd not to include a classic pinball/casino-themed level when it's such an iconic (not to mention unique) trope for the series. I don't remember flippers or slot machines in the Studiopolis demo either, which would be sorely missed without a pinball level.

[JezMM]

To be honest I would kind of group Studiopolis with Casino Night/Carnival Night in my head, but if the game is big there's plenty of room for two "neon-ish urban night"-esque stages, much as Sonic 3 & Knuckles had three green stages with Angel Island, Marble Garden and Mushroom Hill.

As for Sonic CD I imagine time travel stuff might be possible, but it might be a bit more scripted, like there will be various bottlenecks where you are sent through a signpost and instantly teleported to that time zone just for the fun of it/aesthetics-wise, while also there could be some segments where - basic as you can get - some rocks are blocking the path and you have to jump up them to reach a "Past" signpost that instantly switches to that time zone, where the rocks have not fallen yet.  ...If they wanted to be really clever they could then make it so the very next thing you do after passing through is perform some sort of action or destroy a load-bearing enemy that causes the rocks to fall in the past in the first place.

As for going to the Future, they could maybe do neat stuff like an Eggman robot working on building a bridge - if you spare it and go to the future, the bridge will be there allowing you access to a secret area.  If you destroy it though, the bridge is never built and you have to take the lower path.

In a sense, the time signposts will more or less just become regular ol' switches that affect the state of various stage elements, with a focus on immediate visible results as you'd get with typical switches in these sorts of puzzles - rather than having to learn what paths are open and what aren't in three different time zones over a whole vast level as was the style in Sonic CD.  Essentially the time travel would just be cool set-dressing for these switches that inform the puzzle solutions, but would hopefully capture the spirit of time travel from the original in a fun, new way.

 

That's how I'd do it anyway, but I'm not sure how I'd incorperate the "Bad Future" and "Good Future" thing, it might complicate the puzzle concept a bit too much for a casual player unfamiliar with the original.

[Ghast06]

4 hours ago, Safka said:

I really like CD. But that said, it does have quite a lot of noticeable flaws. The time travel mechanic is poorly implemented and the level design can be a little odd.

That said, it's so unique and fun that I can overlook that. It also doesn't hurt that the music is so amazing.

The music is flawless!

[Potada]

As far as a time travel gimmick for any CD levels, they could do something similar to South Island Warped and have time travel signs work like Star Posts; just pass by one and jump into the circle of stars to warp to the past/future/etc.

[Jango]

1 hour ago, JezMM said:

it might complicate the puzzle concept a bit too much for a casual player unfamiliar with the original.

Silly Jez, this game will be played mostly by war veterans like us :V

 

Another stuff I would like to see implemented is the extension of Sonic + Tails team moves. Well, maybe extension is not the word, but refinement. One thing Sonic 4 Episode 2 sorta got it right, was facilitate the action of using Tails to carry Sonic around... too bad the flight is too stiff and awkward in that game.

It works great in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but you will always need someone on the second controller to pull it off. Back in the day, yeah, I had a few friends to mess around, but today it's kinda of impossible xD But it's a great addiction to the game, when playing as Sonic and Tails together, you can find the best of two worlds, the secret paths and itens of both characters

Also, a throwback boss like this:

 

Would be rad.

[JezMM]

9 minutes ago, Jango said:

Silly Jez, this game will be played mostly by war veterans like us :V

 

Another stuff I would like to see implemented is the extension of Sonic + Tails team moves. Well, maybe extension is not the word, but refinement. One thing Sonic 4 Episode 2 sorta got it right, was facilitate the action of using Tails to carry Sonic around... too bad the flight is too stiff and awkward in that game.

It works great in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but you will always need someone on the second controller to pull it off. Back in the day, yeah, I had a few friends to mess around, but today it's kinda of impossible xD But it's a great addiction to the game, when playing as Sonic and Tails together, you can find the best of two worlds, the secret paths and itens of both characters

Also, a throwback boss like this:

 

Would be rad.

Single Player Sonic & Tails flight was added to the TaxStealth ports of Sonic 1 and 2.  Looking up and jumping will make Tails begin flying, then you simply jump into his arms (if you didn't land in them from your own jump to begin with) to begin controlling the pair as a single entity.  It can be a little finicky to get the two lined up due to Tails' AI frequently being more interested in "copying Sonic: but slightly to the left" than "copying Sonic" but works mostly.  It's probably safe to assume it'll be in Sonic & Tails mode here.

[Jango]

2 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Single Player Sonic & Tails flight was added to the TaxStealth ports of Sonic 1 and 2.  Looking up and jumping will make Tails begin flying, then you simply jump into his arms (if you didn't land in them from your own jump to begin with) to begin controlling the pair as a single entity.  It can be a little finicky to get the two lined up due to Tails' AI frequently being more interested in "copying Sonic: but slightly to the left" than "copying Sonic" but works mostly.  It's probably safe to assume it'll be in Sonic & Tails mode here.

REALLY?? Oh my God, TaxStealth.

[YuTwo]

27 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Single Player Sonic & Tails flight was added to the TaxStealth ports of Sonic 1 and 2.  Looking up and jumping will make Tails begin flying, then you simply jump into his arms (if you didn't land in them from your own jump to begin with) to begin controlling the pair as a single entity.  It can be a little finicky to get the two lined up due to Tails' AI frequently being more interested in "copying Sonic: but slightly to the left" than "copying Sonic" but works mostly.  It's probably safe to assume it'll be in Sonic & Tails mode here.

That really was a great feature added in to those ports. It was so great that it was even added in as an optional feature in Sonic 3 Complete.  

I find it to be a complete guarantee that it's going to be in Mania.

[Polkadi~☆]

A Sonic & Tails option where Tails can carry and fly with Sonic?

If they wanted exploration in Mania, boy, this is the way to do it. I hope it does end up in Mania, but with some better controls. It's always been off in the past...

[Zippo]

Just remembered New York Comic Con is in a few days, it was said Sonic would have some sort of presence there, wouldn't expect anything new, but it's something to keep in mind.

[molul]

14 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

Seeing that the Studiopolis Zone is our amusement themed level, would you be OK not seeing remixed versions of Spring Yard, Casino Night, Collision Chaos, and Carnival Night Zones?

I'd be OK. I love Spring Yard, Casino Night and Carnival Night, but there are other zones I'd rather see remastered before those.

Sonic 1: Star Light.

Sonic 2: Mystic Cave and Chemical Plant (yes, Generations already had Chemical Plant, but hey, I love it). 

Sonic 3: Hidrocity and Ice Cap.

Sonic & Knuckles: wow, I don't know! Mushroom Hill, Flying Battery, Lava Reef, Sky Sanctuary, Death Egg... I just realized S&K is the game whose zones I love the most XD

Sonic CD: I don't care.

I'd also like to see some love for Sonic Spinball, a great game that could have used a good sequel to improve all the mechanics. What about using Sonic Spinball's bonus stage as (one of) Sonic Mania's bonus stage(s)? I mean, those you enter through a star post.

 

[Ghast06]

8 hours ago, Zippo said:

Just remembered New York Comic Con is in a few days, it was said Sonic would have some sort of presence there, wouldn't expect anything new, but it's something to keep in mind.

It could be another showcase of Sonic Mania. Most likely, there will be nothing new there

3 hours ago, molul said:

I'd be OK. I love Spring Yard, Casino Night and Carnival Night, but there are other zones I'd rather see remastered before those.

Sonic 1: Star Light.

Sonic 2: Mystic Cave and Chemical Plant (yes, Generations already had Chemical Plant, but hey, I love it). 

Sonic 3: Hidrocity and Ice Cap.

Sonic & Knuckles: wow, I don't know! Mushroom Hill, Flying Battery, Lava Reef, Sky Sanctuary, Death Egg... I just realized S&K is the game whose zones I love the most XD

Sonic CD: I don't care.

I'd also like to see some love for Sonic Spinball, a great game that could have used a good sequel to improve all the mechanics. What about using Sonic Spinball's bonus stage as (one of) Sonic Mania's bonus stage(s)? I mean, those you enter through a star post.

 

I can see the spinball thing be like a bonus stage for extra rings/shields. You can go there by jumping into those portals that open when you pass checkpoints. Just like in S3&K

17 hours ago, Tracker_TD said:

Studiopolis is less-so Casino itch and more Stardust Speedway-itch imo; if anything I'd say it rules that out, much as I love that stage. 

After reading your post, I guess it's safe to say that Stardust Speedway will be in Sonic Mania. I could be wrong,but whatever.

[BlueFlare]

15 hours ago, Ghast06 said:

The JP/EU music is flawless!

 

[Menace2Society]

The USA soundtrack is way better, imo.

[Lucid Dream]

On the topic of soundtracks, I feel like there's just too much agreement on the idea that Sonic Mania will have amazing music throughout. 

I agree that Tee Lopez makes pretty amazing compositions, with Studiopolis being very impressive and well done, but I feel like his remixes are pretty bland and lacking. His Green Hill Zone remix is the worst GHZ veriant so far IMO, and even on his channel, I don't hear many remixes that are competitive with the original pieces. 

Even with Studiopolis, that is just one song. I fear that the first few zones will have amazing compositions, and than the next few stage themes will be subpar. It's something I commonly find with games that have a lot of original compositions, including several Sonic games. 

Spoiler

For example:

VS

I'm not saying Marble Zone is necessarily better (IMO it is), but Labyrenth Zone is a lot more simple and relies heavily on a single line of melody. This drop in composition follows from Spring yard zone. This isn't a very good example, I'll find a better one if you want. 

This isn't Sonic but shows a clearer drop in quality:

 vs 

 

 

[BlueFlare]

8 hours ago, molul said:

I'd also like to see some love for Sonic Spinball, a great game that could have used a good sequel to improve all the mechanics. What about using Sonic Spinball's bonus stage as (one of) Sonic Mania's bonus stage(s)? I mean, those you enter through a star post.

 

Ya, I keep forgetting how much I actually like Sonic Spinball, although it may be a little frustrating at times. I wish I still had the physical copy of it.  It would be neat to have some kind of mini game in form of Sonic Spinball bonus stage.

[Linkabel]

I just got an email from Amazon that the new delivery date for the Mania CE is June 1st.

Edit: False alarm, I was confused on that originally Amazon had given me a March shipping date but it was actually May 31st.

[JezMM]

6 hours ago, Lucid Dream said:

On the topic of soundtracks, I feel like there's just too much agreement on the idea that Sonic Mania will have amazing music throughout. 

I agree that Tee Lopez makes pretty amazing compositions, with Studiopolis being very impressive and well done, but I feel like his remixes are pretty bland and lacking. His Green Hill Zone remix is the worst GHZ veriant so far IMO, and even on his channel, I don't hear many remixes that are competitive with the original pieces. 

Even with Studiopolis, that is just one song. I fear that the first few zones will have amazing compositions, and than the next few stage themes will be subpar. It's something I commonly find with games that have a lot of original compositions, including several Sonic games. 

  Reveal hidden contents

For example:

VS

I'm not saying Marble Zone is necessarily better (IMO it is), but Labyrenth Zone is a lot more simple and relies heavily on a single line of melody. This drop in composition follows from Spring yard zone. This isn't a very good example, I'll find a better one if you want. 

This isn't Sonic but shows a clearer drop in quality:

 vs 

 

 

I'm not sure what to say other than the reason there is so much agreement is because most people love Tee Lopes' remixing style, if you don't then that's fine but, what can I say, he seems to have shown a sincere amount of competence for making original music that is in line with the classic games through Studiopolis, the main theme and mini-boss theme.  Green Hill is a very tame remix, but it is a very tame reimagining too.  Having a wildly creative remix would not fit the fact that the stage is so visually similar to the original - nearly exactly the same for the first half of the act.

Most people like that Tee Lopes doesn't really try to make remixes that surpass or wildly deviate from the original, the simplicity of his remixes is part of their charm, and honestly those kind of remixes feel like they may suit a game like this better - it's a quiet, dignified nostalgia trip as oppose to a big grand celebration like Generations (which of course had much more bombastic remixes to match the bombastic 3D/HD re-imaginings of levels).  Like I feel he will compose a really solid "gamey" soundtrack - one that feels perfectly in line with the flow and aesthetics of the visuals, in perfect harmony, not trying to overthrow it with mindblowingly amazing remixes that sound like a standalone remix playing as "background music", a seperate entity like the music of games with customisable soundtracks (Smash Bros etc).  Instead we'll get something that befits the gameplay so well that it just seems natural as part of the overall experience.