Paper Mario Color Splash

[Chris Knopps]

44 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

Not really,  seeing how it contradicts your original rationale of the games coming out close in release date to warrant such unfounded assertions in the first place. 

It backs up my other arguments however despite that. There's been more to this conversation than that portion.

[Diogenes]

Not unless you expect every idea in every game to have no relation to anything any other game has done.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

20 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

It backs up my other arguments however despite that. There's been more to this conversation than that portion.

Sorry,  but no dice. You can't have a crucial fact contradicting a part of your argument and expect it to hold water. 

Now,  maybe persay if that crucial part weren't there in the first place,  it'd be a different story. 

Then again,  the other part doesn't make any logical sense on its own,  since as has been stated,  paint is already an element that pops up in countless games across all the big three. 

[Chris Knopps]

44 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

Sorry,  but no dice. You can't have a crucial fact contradicting a part of your argument and expect it to hold water. 

Now,  maybe persay if that crucial part weren't there in the first place,  it'd be a different story. 

Then again,  the other part doesn't make any logical sense on its own,  since as has been stated,  paint is already an element that pops up in countless games across all the big three. 

The gist of it is, don't want paint, don't want clone characters, don't want a Navi-sidekick. That's all there is to my argument.

(Nor do I want a "world map" but rather one huge world that connects together as in the first two games...)

Hopefully we get tons of new characters and enemies to make up for the rest of the "negatives" on my list, but I'm starting to feel that's as stupid a hope as wanting such from SEGA in Sonic games.

[Diogenes]

Not wanting things is one thing. Imagining some conspiracy behind all the things you don't want is something quite different.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Diogenes said:

Not wanting things is one thing. Imagining some conspiracy behind all the things you don't want is something quite different.

I don't believe I've mentioned some conspiracy. Nor am I imagining one.

What I mean is Nintendo is on a fast track to typical in what they do with Mario the same as SEGA is with Sonic, one more way they'll quickly be similar soon enough at this rate.

[Sonictrainer]

I wonder how big the map is compared to the other games.

[Chris Knopps]

6 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

I wonder how big the map is compared to the other games.

There shouldn't be a map for stage progression period, only guidance and nothing more.

This is Paper Mario, an open world RPG, not Super Mario World.

[StaticMania]

Nah, mang. You see this Paper Mario is Not an RPG, it's an Action Adventure.

[Chris Knopps]

3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Nah, mang. You see this Paper Mario is Not an RPG, it's an Action Adventure.

R-Really? That's what you're going with? Or... That a joke? Joke right?

[Diogenes]

What's the harm of a map like this, even. Would the game really be any better if you took it out and just added more doorways and loading zones to link things up?

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

What's the harm of a map like this, even. Would the game really be any better if you took it out and just added more doorways and loading zones to link things up?

That's what advanced tech is for, eliminating the need for such things and making open world progression seamless.

[Diogenes]

What's the point of that? I'd rather not spend 10 minutes running through areas I've already played if I need to go back somewhere.

[Chris Knopps]

8 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

What's the point of that? I'd rather not spend 10 minutes running through areas I've already played if I need to go back somewhere.

Well then...

Play a Mario game that's NOT an RPG.

Simple solution. Otherwise the need for Paper Mario is nonexistent and you can play any 2D or 3D Mario game that's exactly the same.

Yeesh. it's these things that ruined Sonic in the long run, and now that kind of thing is seeping into Mario.

I prefer the Paper Mario series maintaining what it was all about between the first and second titles, not becoming all this typical crap in the other Mario franchises.

[Diogenes]

Stupid design decisions like that are why I don't play RPGs.

Heaven forbid one actually try to fix anything...

[Wraith]

A world map could just as easily be indicative of a fast travel system, something fans of the original games have asked for. It doesn't mean much of anything. Again, stop trying to pull out issues from places where there aren't any. 

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

A world map could just as easily be indicative of a fast travel system, something fans of the original games have asked for. It doesn't mean much of anything. Again, stop trying to pull out issues from places where there aren't any. 

There are plenty of issues with traveling via map in Paper Mario RPG's, this is a common issue. Perhaps not here, but elsewhere the problem exists.

If you want quick travel, you have your pipes, not Mario World-ing the whole d@mn game.

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

There are plenty of issues with traveling via map in Paper Mario RPG's

Name them.

[Sean]

Map progression in and of itself is not something I have a problem with. However, Sticker Star's problem was that you had to repeatedly backtrack and play levels, and even specific areas within levels, in a certain order in order to progress. You had to do this to find hidden Thing stickers that the game barely informs you of, and it's confusing as all heck knowing where to find Things and how to apply them (and this isn't even getting to the part where you need to know which Things to use on bosses; otherwise you're fucked up the ass). There was no reliable hint system whatsoever, other than Kersti's utterly unhelpful and vague quips. This is seriously a game where you need a guide handy in order to not waste valuable time figuring out where to go and how to use your precious, disposable resources.

Sticker Star was basically a Metroidvania. It doesn't have the same flow as a normal Mario platformer does. I'd be totally down with a map system if story progression was sensible and intuitive; however, in SS's case, it was anything but sensible. Ironically, even with a map system it was a hundred times more confusing to navigate than any other prior RPG in the franchise.

[Wraith]

 

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

There are plenty of issues with traveling via map in Paper Mario RPG's, this is a common issue. Perhaps not here, but elsewhere the problem exists.

If you want quick travel, you have your pipes, not Mario World-ing the whole d@mn game.

A fast travel system just cuts down on the time walking through places you've already been to. It's really not as big of a deal as you make it out to be.

If the game took on a level by level structure you might have a point, but a simple map to ease backtracking is a feature in most modern games

[Chris Knopps]

My thing is Paper Mario set up firm expectations as to what it was all about, and Sticker Star, along with this game, are throwing these things completely out the door because the company, likely Miyamoto above others, want it purely like the main series counterparts.

Every toad looks the same. Every enemy looks the same. Those are not Paper Mario.

Map based travel. That is not Paper Mario.

Solo-Mario. That SURE AS HELL isn't Paper Mario.

No-Leveling card/sticker based battle. That is not Paper Mario.

I wouldn't be so pi$$ed at this game if everything didn't do everything wrong from the get-go. Again it's essentially Sticker Star just with Splatoon, or as another fan mentioned, Epic Mickey mixed in.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 I get that you're not happy with the little footage that you've actually seen for real,  but constantly attempting to tie the whole paint thing into Splatoon and Epic Mickey is more than a little damaging to your alleged ethos.

[Diogenes]

So the problem you have isn't that these things are bad, it's just that they're different. That even potential improvements, like a map that reduces backtracking, are bad because that isn't how it's "supposed" to be done, rather than because it makes the game worse.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

I'd say wait until we see the final product, Sticker Star started out looking like a more standard paper mario but the final product was quite different. We don't know enough to judge enough

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

 I get that you're not happy with the little disagree you've seen,  but constantly attempting to tie the whole paint thing into Splatoon and Epic Mickey is more than a little damaging to your alleged ethos.

Little disagree...? Confused by that kind of... Bad wording or typo...?

I'm just bringing up things that are common sense revolving the Paper Mario franchise that WERE meant to distinguish it from the other series until Miyamoto screwed it over.

It's just annoying when people who aren't even fans of the games, or what it goes for, try to input their two cents more than anything to justify what it's doing/where it's going.