*(Sonic the Hedgehog - Were The Tone/Atmosphere/Demographic Changes Necessary?)*

[Chris Knopps]

Throughout the years, from Sonic 1 in 1991 through Sonic Unleashed in 2008, the franchises primary focus felt between the pre-teen to teenage audience. Plot/lore was always a key aspect of the franchise right back to the very first game up until the post Unleashed changes. But out of the 06 outcry, everything was given a reboot of sorts after that.

But the thing is, 06 did not justify a hard reset of what the franchise was about nor who it catered towards.

Sonic 06 did two things wrong, glitches out of poor scheduling, and human romance/time travel. These mistakes did not mean Sonic needed to abandon story depths and lore. It did not mean the game play was the worst thing ever and needed an immediate change.

All of the splits, all of the debates, pretty much everything causing chaos within the communities didn't start until the 06 mistakes and the post Unleashed portion of the franchise. This is why I find there was absolutely zero reason/need for the post Unleashed titles to have ever existed.

There was no need to find a fix for multiple characters, certainly not to give Sonic all of their abilities so cheaply, there was no need for the wacky/pun filled direction. All that needed to be done was to change how they developed their games, learn from the plot mistakes from 06, and keep going with the direction Sonic had always gone.

Each game tying comfortably together in some way, knowing where everything fit and when it fit.

The only thing I ever saw necessary was keeping a pure 3D series and a pure 2D series in development side by side for fans, so those who don't feel the need for 3D or didn't feel the need for plots could have something they could jump into and enjoy at any time.

Instead the pre-teen and teenage audiences were cast out in favor of the current direction, and when you turn off older kids/teenagers, you turn off kids/children because they have an interest in what older kids want, and if you make something older people have no interest in/mock openly, therein lies the problem with what's tarnished the franchise and wiped away its sales throughout the years.

Sonic Generations profited because it went back to what fans expected out of Sonic, plot aside which is the only real complaint revolving the game because it's as much of a turn-off as every other titles story post Unleashed. It brought back the Genesis and Adventure atmosphere fans knew and loved and wanted more of. Then after Generations they gave fans Lost World which further pushed the already uncomfortable direction and thus became one of if not the worst selling Sonic Team console Sonic title in history.

Going back to the plot/lore focus, the action and mature focus, that 1991-2008 gave us was the way to go then, and it's still the way to go now, as it wasn't until after the reboot of everything Sonic was about and who he was targeted towards began that the chaos in the communities/consumers and the ever dwindling sales began.

And when it comes to the "Colors did good!" argument, that's because fans thought it was a one time break from everything 06 offered and from the Werehog half of Unleashed offered. For one game it worked, but when THAT became the standard for the franchise completely, consumers clearly said no. The one-off break from depth, from so many characters, for ONE game it was great, for ONE game it sold extraordinarily well, but when consumers found out everything Sonic had to offer was canned in favor of that game and its contents for the foreseeable future, therein lies where the other chaos began.

Throughout 1991-2008 new characters were fine. Some stuck with the franchise, some were one time only experiences. The franchise was always growing in both locations and inhabitants. You were always engulfed in a game full of stages and plot combined to immerse you in something worthwhile. You never knew when a new face to see/play as would pop up and that was an exciting thing.

But when outcries from some against characters, against plot, against the demographic/tone/atmosphere the franchise had always had for 17 years were given attention from the company, it resulted in the Sonic franchise post-Unleashed and it has led us into what/where Sonic is now.

Worlds are made out of food, random things have eyeballs, Sonic sounds like he went on vacation on Isle Delfino, every plot is so watered down and pun filled that whenever Sonic isn't punning, hes laughing like Woody Woodpecker to fill in the spaces. The realism the franchise had always been about from 1991-2008 is now gone for worlds you can't relate to whatsoever because they don't fit in with the real world, it's all color and Mario/NiGHTS hybrid fantasy.

1991-2008 worked for Sonic, it WAS Sonic, and there was never a need for anything that has happened after 2008, there was only a need to learn from mistakes while keeping the franchise true to the direction it had always gone.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Actually, it was more anything between...1998-2001, 2008-2009...and that's about it worked for Sonic, and that's even debatable. Heroes' story was far too simplified and home to too many plot holes, Shadow and 06's were melodramatic, trying too hard to be all dark and edgy, and in general, just complete shit for a blue fucking hedgehog and his band of animal buddies who runs really fast. Unleashed and Black Knight finally got a good balance of themes, and in general were pretty good, and after that, everything just went downhill into a new era of shit stories.

[Diogenes]

Throughout the years, from Sonic 1 in 1991 through Sonic Unleashed in 2008,

See, you already lost me here. The idea that there was a clear, coherent tone/atmosphere/demographic focus across all those years, that was only broken post-Unleashed...I don't believe it. Not for a second. Arguments over those things reach at least as far back as the Adventures.

If you don't like the direction of the recent games, that's fine, you've got the right to your opinion, and you're not alone in it. But don't act like everything was fine and dandy before Colors came along and ruined everything.

[Chris Knopps]

Actually, it was more anything between...1998-2001, 2008-2009...and that's about it worked for Sonic, and that's even debatable. Heroes' story was far too simplified and home to too many plot holes, Shadow and 06's were melodramatic, trying too hard to be all dark and edgy, and in general, just complete shit for a blue fucking hedgehog and his band of animal buddies who runs really fast. Unleashed and Black Knight finally got a good balance of themes, and in general were pretty good, and after that, everything just went downhill into a new era of shit stories.

This thread is a generalization of the franchise, not a nit-pick of it. But I can see your point as throughout the series existence there has always been good and bad, but the AMOUNT of bad in one certain time frame is the issue, and post-Unleashed, especially now thanks to BOOM, wins by a landslide.

[RappedinBlacX]

Well they have Sonic Boom to fill the kid void now, there is no reason actual Sonic cant be aimed at older fans. Im willing to bet thats the path they're taking.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I have a question; are you talking about if Sonic has changed its target audience to young kids instead? 

[Badnik Mechanic]

 

Throughout the years, from Sonic 1 in 1991 through Sonic Unleashed in 2008, the franchises primary focus felt between the pre-teen to teenage audience. Plot/lore was always a key aspect of the franchise right back to the very first game up until the post Unleashed changes. But out of the 06 outcry, everything was given a reboot of sorts after that.

I don't get this. We have documentation which proves this as well as... well anyone living in the 90's will tell you that Sonic was clearly aimed at kids, tv commercials always on during kids hour, Sonic being on those random Saturday morning shows which were aimed at kids, tones of the cartoon and surrounding material. Competitions/events at places like Hamleys in London to go to Sonic's birthday party, I know for a fact one SSMB member actually went to this. 

Also following Sonic 06, everyone was saying that Sonic & the Secret Rings and Unleashed actually went a step back towards what Sonic once was, it wasn't perfect and there were still complaints, (Monster of the week anyone?), I really wish we still had pre 2009 SSMB so I could cite the topics of people praising the fact that Unleashed felt like it was a step in the right direction despite the problems with the werehog.

Heck the only time anyone ever said or used the word reboot was Alton Towers which was prior to the release of Sonic 4, which turned out to be a false PR spin. Fortunately we do have the documentation for this one.  Otherwise, nobody else has ever mentioned a reboot and there really is nothing at all to support the theory that there has been a reboot in any way. If anything all that happened is as follows.

Heroes - turned out the way it did because Iizuka/Sonic Team wanted to attract non Adventure fans (we do/did have documentation for this 1up.com interview). 

Shadow aka Sonic Adventure 3 - Most direct sequel to SA2, launched under the SA3 title, yes there are still sites online with articles which prove this. Turned out the way it did because Sonic team wanted to attract/appeal to a western audience which were growing up with more darker toned games. e.g. call of duty (yes that was a thing).

Sonic 06 - aka Sonic Adventure 3 in all but name. Built upon SA2 and Shadows game, turned out horrible due to the fact they rushed it/released a beta build. 

Unleashed - Built off SA again, only this time it took influence from Secret Rings and God of War type games which were popular. 

Colours - Built off Unleashed. only now we have the use of power ups...

Generations - Built off Colours.

SLW - Built off Mario Galaxy. 

There really hasn't been a reboot, it's just taken the previous games and build upon it. I don't get why the word reboot is being used when nobody has ever claimed the series has been rebooted.

 

Instead the pre-teen and teenage audiences were cast out in favor of the current direction, and when you turn off older kids/teenagers, you turn off kids/children because they have an interest in what older kids want, and if you make something older people have no interest in/mock openly, therein lies the problem with what's tarnished the franchise and wiped away its sales throughout the years.

Are these actually your words, because I am sure I've read these in several articles that I keep getting linked to recently and I decided to actually look into this because I was curious as to who originally said them and the original source for this is a combination of an old Doug Walker video and James Rolfe. 

And when it comes to the "Colors did good!" argument, that's because fans thought it was a one time break from everything 06 offered and from the Werehog half of Unleashed offered. For one game it worked, but when THAT became the standard for the franchise completely, consumers clearly said no. The one-off break from depth, from so many characters, for ONE game it was great, for ONE game it sold extraordinarily well, but when consumers found out everything Sonic had to offer was canned in favor of that game and its contents for the foreseeable future, therein lies where the other chaos began.

 Wait... what exactly is the complaint here? 

If Colours sold well because it was a good game, why not build on it? Which is what Generations did, it wasn't until lost world which took parts of Colours and then decided to go down a Mario Galaxy route did we get problems. 

Worlds are made out of food

I don't understand, why is this a problem?  

[Tracker_TD]

Oh fucking joy. Can already tell this thread's gonna be a beautiful day in the park.

Look, you can't tell me with a straight face that 1991 Sonic was the "edgy" shite folks like the SA3 gits are after. 

I don't see much here. Bright colours and random floating words isn't much out of the way of that hilarious "worlds made out of FOOD!?!" complaint you have. And plot? Sonic 1's plot is literally "fat guy shoves animals in a bunch of robots, go give him a kicking." It's not lore. The Death Egg saga was fleshed out more, but it wasn't anything super epic or dark or whatever. It's very much understandable for kids, and still boils down to "Eggman's a dick, go give him a kicking."

Like Hogfather said, the "kids" approach is working. Folks like Sonic Colours, they like Sonic Generations. It's interesting for kids, and I can speak from experience; my cousins watch Sonic Boom, they enjoy it plenty (something I seriously didn't expect myself, haha).

I've had folks from that Facebook dumping ground try to spin Sonic 3 & Knuckles into a story of kidnap and torture because Eggman imprisons the animals. I wish I was joking.

I can't take these arguments seriously anymore because it's a series about a talking blue hedgehog. Sonic Adventure 2 is friggin' cringeworthy in retrospect because it tries to tack a "dark" narrative onto this:

Sure, he has green eyes and he's a bit taller in Adventure, whatever. But this idea Sonic has to have a big, moody narrative to succeed is bloody bollocks. 

Can we just let Sonic Team get a grasp on a good game first? Make the most epic narrative you want, but even if SA2's story wasn't a mess, it's still an incredibly naff game. It'd be lovely if Sonic Team could nail both in one go but at this point, I can't bloody trust them to. 

While I'm here; True Sonic Spirit? Can you sound any more pretentious about a blue hedgehog? Christ mate, I've spoke with fans of that malarkey who think that name's a bloody joke.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Tracker

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Can we just let Sonic Team get a grasp on a good game first? Make the most epic narrative you want, but even if SA2's story wasn't a mess, it's still an incredibly naff game. It'd be lovely if Sonic Team could nail both in one go but at this point, I can't bloody trust them to. 

There just so bloody incompetent, man. I cant even trust them to know who Sonic is at this point. 

[Wraith]

It shouldn't be hard for any gaming company to put out a decent story to go along with their game since pretty much anyone can do that now. Sonic Team are just weird. 

I can't say I agree with the argument that Sonic has had a consistent direction from 1991-2008 when he was all over the place then which is why he got such a bad reputation in the first place. I also don't like that you've basically implied that the games that almost got Sonic taken off the map are somehow worse than the games that do decently with pretty much everyone outside the fanbase, Boom aside. Lost World only really caused a fuss in the fanbase. Everywhere else it was noted as alright and quickly forgotten about. People like to exaggerate how much damage that game did for whatever reason. It's release didn't seem to harm anything much, so I doubt things are going to change. There's no reason to believe they will or even need to, anyway, since the general public never cared about Sonic's extended lore and characters(and I can't really blame them since that stuff was always presented pretty poorly, despite whatever interesting ideas Sonic Team's writers may have had.) Most people want Sonic to just deliver on being a bit of fast fun and don't care beyond that. It's possible to make them care beyond that, but if all the desperate attempts to follow trends at the expense of quality all throughout the series from Adventure 2 onward are any indication, I don't think any of the higher ups care all that much beyond just getting people to buy their games. 

And I can't really be all that beat up about it. I knew better than to look toward Sonic for a strong narrative, characters, and lore a long time ago. 

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

So basically this amounts to: Sonic Colors ruined everything! (?)

[Chris Knopps]

Yeesh Tracker, you've got more spite than the Grinch and that trash dude from Sesame Street combined.

Anyways, haven't been a part of the SA3 page for two/three years now. Everything since my leave has been done under a different staff. TrueSonicSpirit was not my creation, albeit one granted I agree with. Most of the page admittedly I agree with, but at the same time I'm more open than they are.

Edit

Although props for the Toradora! reference, love that anime.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Chris Knopps

[Tracker_TD]

Yeesh Tracker, you've got more spite than the Grinch and that trash dude from Sesame Street combined.

I don't have spite, I have boredom. SA3 fanatics like this are a broken record at this point. We've heard all this crap about "Sonic needs to stop being kiddy" a million bloody times and it's always going to get the same response, from the majority of folks I've seen here at least; we don't sodding care. Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but there's probably a reason we literally ban SA3 topics.

Also...

TrueSonicSpirit was not my creation,

I think you might want a word with your "About Me" page... WHEEZE, NOPE, I'M A DUMB

 

Edited December 28, 2015 by Tracker

[Chris Knopps]

 

I don't have spite, I have boredom. SA3 fanatics like this are a broken record at this point. We've heard all this crap about "Sonic needs to stop being kiddy" a million bloody times and it's always going to get the same response, from the majority of folks I've seen here at least; we don't sodding care.

Also...

I think you might want a word with your "About Me" page...

 

TSOS - The Sonic Sanctuary

https://www.facebook.com/SanctuaryOfSonicFans/

[Tracker_TD]

...

TSOS - The Sonic Sanctuary

https://www.facebook.com/SanctuaryOfSonicFans/

...I am not feeling smart right now. The hell did I read that as True Sonic Spirit? My apologies. 

Edited December 28, 2015 by Tracker

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

TSOS - The Sanctuary of Sonic Fans

I would give the OP a chance as I find him to be the more respectable of the SA3 brigade. 

Edited December 28, 2015 by Mikyeong

[RappedinBlacX]

It shouldn't be hard for any gaming company to put out a decent story to go along with their game since pretty much anyone can do that now. Sonic Team are just weird. 

I can't say I agree with the argument that Sonic has had a consistent direction from 1991-2008 when he was all over the place then which is why he got such a bad reputation in the first place. I also don't like that you've basically implied that the games that almost got Sonic taken off the map are somehow worse than the games that do decently with pretty much everyone outside the fanbase, Boom aside. Lost World only really caused a fuss in the fanbase. Everywhere else it was noted as alright and quickly forgotten about. People like to exaggerate how much damage that game did for whatever reason. It's release didn't seem to harm anything much, so I doubt things are going to change. There's no reason to believe they will or even need to, anyway, since the general public never cared about Sonic's extended lore and characters(and I can't really blame them since that stuff was always presented pretty poorly, despite whatever interesting ideas Sonic Team's writers may have had.) Most people want Sonic to just deliver on being a bit of fast fun and don't care beyond that. It's possible to make them care beyond that, but if all the desperate attempts to follow trends at the expense of quality all throughout the series from Adventure 2 onward are any indication, I don't think any of the higher ups care all that much beyond just getting people to buy their games. 

And I can't really be all that beat up about it. I knew better than to look toward Sonic for a strong narrative, characters, and lore a long time ago. 

Honestly, your last sentence has always baffled me about the Sonic fanbase. SA and SA2 had fun storylines, not necessarily great or even good. Just entertaining. If you ask me, best plot goes to Sonic Battle. I would say unleashed but gaia twins existing at center of the earth, actually gods in a sense, versus a mutated chao or a bio weapon is weird in a Sonic game. 

[Chris Knopps]

TSOS - The Sanctuary of Sonic Fans

 

Well, in full title yes.

And no worries Tracker.

It's like I said, yes I agree with the SA3 page and the TrueSonicSpirit, but at the same time I'm not overbearing about what I do and don't agree with.

Edit

Also RappedinBlacX, good choice in game. Love the Battle myself and always sad it never got a sequel. That's another thing I'd like to see more of, more Sonic brawlers. We've had two up to this point I believe.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Chris Knopps

[FriendBot]

So yeah, gonna have to disagree with how the direction Sonic was going from its creation to 2009 (Black Knight was a thing, you know) was consistent.

The classic games were fairly cartoony and the themes shown in the game are quite clever from Sonic Team, guessing that's why CD is such a fan-favorite title despite its pitiful level design.

The Adventure games tried to be more dark but it didn't felt naturally dark especially in Adventure 2. Adventure 1 had the darkness come out more naturally with greed and all that jazz, that does feel more fitting in some sense but Adventure 2 just brings in all this conspiracy nonsense out of left field and it just feels try hard a bit. Maybe if they didn't try to force a more fast-paced story and actually, take the FUCKING time to explain what the hell is going on, things might've gone better.

Heroes' story was not a good follow up to Adventure 2 and then Shadow had amnesia, if only Rouge could explain to him what the hell happened but NOPE! Ow the Edge and 06 had to come and goshdiddlydangit what the hell even happened here?!

A cartoony hedgehog with an attitude fighting a obese scientist that captures animals as an energy source isn't edgy enough for you? I mean, I pretty sure you can take some pretty dark turns with that idea ALONE! 

The Storybook series and Unleashed is exactly what the main series should be like, it has a proper balance of dark and light tones without coming off too pretentious IMO. So yeah, 1991-1997 was its own direction, 1998-2006 was another direction, 2007-2009 was yet again a new direction and 2010-onwards is its own direction.

Yeah, not a cohesive as it looks now does it? Unless you strip it to the very barebones to likes of Generations' story.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Soni

[Wittymations]

There's a difference between child friendly and depth. Sonic has been and can easily be child friendly while still retaining depth. Depth simply means there's substance to the story being told. I'd toss Sonic up there with those action-adventure Saturday morning shows (which it used to have) to go along with whatever atmosphere  that's being told. I'm thinking something along the lines of Teen Titans (not Go!) Has action, story, and humorous character interaction. At times, has morals to the story, like Cyborg expressing his desire to retain his organic self and not become a complete robot (I think, been a long time since I watched the show) due to wanting more than just 'adequacy.'

But that's not the only example, I can think of other shows and movies that do this. From Lion King to Wall-E, for movies. But hell, Disney's always been a master of taking cutesy characters and throwing them in a plot that makes you care. But Sonic doesn't exactly have to nail Disney level of story telling (though they're certainly capable of making Pixar-level works, if Unleashed is anything to go by).

 

Point is, the narratives these days aren't to be shamed for being family friendly. You don't need Sonic to be edgy to get your point across, and when people say "kiddy" they seem to be talking about a lack of depth and that, I would agree with. It seems soulless, inconsistent, uncaring. They don't care, why should I care?

[Chris Knopps]

There's a difference between child friendly and depth. Sonic has been and can easily be child friendly while still retaining depth. Depth simply means there's substance to the story being told. I'd toss Sonic up there with those action-adventure Saturday morning shows (which it used to have) to go along with whatever atmosphere  that's being told. I'm thinking something along the lines of Teen Titans (not Go!) Has action, story, and humorous character interaction. At times, has morals to the story, like Cyborg expressing his desire to retain his organic self and not become a complete robot (I think, been a long time since I watched the show) due to wanting more than just 'adequacy.'

But that's not the only example, I can think of other shows and movies that do this. From Lion King to Wall-E, for movies. But hell, Disney's always been a master of taking cutesy characters and throwing them in a plot that makes you care. But Sonic doesn't exactly have to nail Disney level of story telling (though they're certainly capable of making Pixar-level works, if Unleashed is anything to go by).

 

Point is, the narratives these days aren't to be shamed for being family friendly. You don't need Sonic to be edgy to get your point across, and when people say "kiddy" they seem to be talking about a lack of depth and that, I would agree with. It seems soulless, inconsistent, uncaring. They don't care, why should I care?

First off, Aku, you instantly garner my respect for good taste. Amazing taste really, can't beat Jack.

Secondly, I agree over family friendly narratives not being shamed. But what I do shame is narratives watered down to a monkeys level of understanding over the thought process that youth needs simplicity to keep up with anything, which is definitely not the case. I'm fine with family friendly tales as long as said tales remain worthwhile, which as you mentioned, was nailed in Unleashed.

NO idea what the bleep happened after Unleashed.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Chris Knopps

[FriendBot]

Black Knight happened, that's what. And that game had a good story too.

And seriously, censoring in the fucking internet?

Edited December 28, 2015 by Soni

[Chris Knopps]

Black Knight happened, that's what. And that game had a good story too.

And seriously, censoring in the fucking internet?

All must be censored, the government is watching... Well, at least if you live in the US like me. lol

And hur hur, very funny man. After the Unleashed title AND the Black Knight title then.

Although on that topic, more female villain leads, this is needed. Merlina was just... SO good.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

 

I can't take these arguments seriously anymore because it's a series about a talking blue hedgehog. Sonic Adventure 2 is friggin' cringeworthy in retrospect because it tries to tack a "dark" narrative onto this:

Oh please. That is so overblown it's ridiculous.

SA2's narrative is the same exact narrative as SA1 before it, the only difference being the setpieces involved: SA1 throws in a revenge fueled mutating Water Chao God of Destruction that massacres the ancient Echidna society to the point that Knuckles is the only one of his kind in the world, and SA2 throws in a revenge fueled Chaos Powered Hedgehog who's the sole survivor of a massacre that happened in the distant past, both of whom try to destroy the world for what they felt they were wronged for, and both of whom reform by the end. Yes, SA2 does go a degree darker than SA1 (itself being darker than the Genesis games) in some areas, and yes, SA2 does have a few plotholes and hiccups worth addressing, but it has the exact same narrative and premise as the game before it, and is hardly that big of a mess than it is.

 

The Adventure games tried to be more dark but it didn't felt naturally dark especially in Adventure 2. Adventure 1 had the darkness come out more naturally with greed and all that jazz, that does feel more fitting in some sense but Adventure 2 just brings in all this conspiracy nonsense out of left field and it just feels try hard a bit. Maybe if they didn't try to force a more fast-paced story and actually, take the FUCKING time to explain what the hell is going on, things might've gone better.

Except they did take the time to explain what was going on. Eggman uncovered a hidden weapon from the military that his grandfather made named Shadow, who looks like Sonic to an extent that he ends up unknowingly framing the Blue Blur for his crimes and leading to the military to chase after Sonic (likely to cover up their secret behind Shadow). Shadow helps Eggman in his goals for world domination by using the destructive Eclipse Cannon on the ARK to force the world to submit to him, while Rouge is sent out to spy and dig up anything on the project that led to Shadow's creation. Sonic and his friends are on a typical journey to stop Eggman from using the Eclipse Cannon, only for all parties involved to discover that the entire thing was a ploy set up by Shadow who was really seeking to carry out Prof. Gerald's revenge on Earth for the ARK massacre and the death of his granddaughter Maria.

It's no more out of left field than that of SA1's monster sob story with Chaos, because it practically follows the same path with it's own distinctness.

 

As far as the OP is concerned, there's a saying on here (and many other places) regarding quality: it doesn't matter how lighthearted and happy, or dark and moody a game is, a bad game is a bad game. And as someone who wants that more intense atmosphere that the Adventures games brought back, how is that the "way to go?" I don't see how Colors being more lighthearted is a problem than it is it just being lacking in keeping me interested, and mind you I actually like what they did despite my preferences. Generations being even more lacking is a matter of them playing safe because with it being an anniversary title they were holding up, they didn't want to make a failure like they did with their previous anniversary game, Sonic 06.

This isn't a matter of realism and maturity or the lack their of, and to frame it that way is an indicator of immaturity itself because things aren't judged by how straight-faced they are than how enjoyable and well made they are - while they're certainly scapegoated for all the wrong reasons, the reason things like plot and characters had outcries against that stuff is because they weren't enjoyable and poorly made.

Were these changes necessary? Much as I don't like some of them, in a number of ways, yes. Reason being that they had to fix the franchise's reputation that had been tarnished for so long.

Edited December 28, 2015 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

I'm sorry to be this horribly blunt, but it's very hard for me to take your OP seriously when it has so many ludicrous statements and assumptions. The notion that Sonic has been a series with a heavy focus on plot/lore from the very beginning is...literally not true at all. I cannot comprehend how you could think that Sonic 1 or 2 focus heavily on "plot", and even CD and 3&K take a little bit of stretching. Sure, they had plot, and that plot wasn't totally unimportant or inconsequential, but it seems bizarre to claim it was a major focus.

Heck, even if we're only looking at, say, the Adventure era, the idea that the series had a focus on "lore" holds virtually no water. Even when it tries to take itself seriously, everything is so underdeveloped, un-fleshed-out, and inconsistent that that word just doesn't apply.

The realism the franchise had always been about from 1991-2008

This just makes me want to laugh. I don't like the food levels and over-cartooniness too much either, and some people do exaggerate how cartoony the classic games were, but to act as though the series had a consistently realistic style from the very beginning to 2008...well, I'm vacillating between "an oversimplification" and "downright wrong".

Anyway, I guess I'd just ask you to please justify these statements, especially the ones about Sonic being focused on plot from the beginning, with some sort of actual evidence. Show me that Sega/Sonic Team was INTENDING to create a plot-heavy, lore-heavy experience from the very beginning. Because right now, I'm detecting high levels of conjecture and personal interpretation.

I'm not even going to discuss whether or not the series is going in a good or bad direction until we actually resolve whether your assumption that the series has been on this one specific trajectory from 1991 - 2008 is correct.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Monkey Destruction Switch