Sonic Strength Tiers

[DabigRG]

Okay, so here's my list off the top of my head:

 

Monster: Super Form Dark Gaia Time Eater Biolizard

Strongest: Knuckles Big Storm Zavok Bark BattleLord

Wrecking: Eggman Vector Omega Zomom SCR-GP E10000B E10000G

Antlike: Cubot Chaos Werehog Shadow Erazor Black Knight Nega Mighty E-Series Gemerl

Above: Zazz Zeena Metal Amy Merlina Bearanger E10000R

Fighter: Sonic Blaze Espio Tikal Rouge Jet Silver Infinite SCR-HD Honey Sticks

Average: Fang Wave Mephiles Shahra Focke Speedy Carrotia Tower Maria Elise

Untrained: Tails Cream Cheese Charmy Marine Bean Zik Zor Witchcart Ray

Weak: Mobini Yacker Wisps Omochao Orbot Chip Chao

 

 

 

 

On 9/28/2015 at 12:04 PM, Dr. Mechano said:

Not quite.

Shadow skates as fast as Sonic runs on foot. It stands to reason that Shadow, unaided by his skates, would be somewhat slower.

And that's fine; There are areas in which Shadow is stronger than Sonic, but I'm going to say speed isn't one of them. He needs artificial means to match Sonic's speed, which would indicate that his natural speed is less than Sonic's is.

I still appreciate what a great touch that was from a design standpoint.

[Fire-N-Space]

S + - Chaos,  Mephiles, Light/Dark Gaia, Super Sonic/Shadow 

S - Big, Zavok, Zomom 

A - Shadow, Amy, Blaze Sonic, Zeena, Metal Sonic, Zazz

B - Knuckles, Vector, Rouge, Storm, Shade, E-101 Beta,  E-102 Gamma

C - Tails, Cream, Charmy, Marine, Ray, Tikal, Eggman 

[Shadowlax]

5 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Okay, so here's my list off the top of my head:

 

Monster: Super Form Dark Gaia Time Eater Biolizard

Strongest: Knuckles Big Storm Zavok Bark BattleLord

Wrecking: Eggman Vector Omega Zomom SCR-GP E10000B E10000G

Antlike: Cubot Chaos Werehog Shadow Erazor Black Knight Nega Mighty E-Series Gemerl

Above: Zazz Zeena Metal Amy Merlina Bearanger E10000R

Fighter: Sonic Blaze Espio Tikal Rouge Jet Silver Infinite SCR-HD Honey Sticks

Average: Fang Wave Mephiles Shahra Focke Speedy Carrotia Tower Maria Elise

Untrained: Tails Cream Cheese Charmy Marine Bean Zik Zor Witchcart Ray

Weak: Mobini Yacker Wisps Omochao Orbot Chip Chao

 

 

Upon reflection I think a tier list for this stuff in sonic is hard to make? Like I dunno, outside of super freaks,  there are characters in some tiers who I think could throw down with others. Like amy for example.There are others I don't actually think are that strong like omega. I think he's just kind of a sturdy robot.

5 hours ago, DabigRG said:

 

I still appreciate what a great touch that was from a design standpoint.

Sonic at times has peoples powers be reflective of who they are.

Shadow's the type of guy who will do anything to get the job done.

He ain't faster than you? Let me throw on some rocket jordans and stop time.

Shits fantastic

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

Sonic at times has peoples powers be reflective of who they are.

Shadow's the type of guy who will do anything to get the job done.

He ain't faster than you? Let me throw on some rocket jordans and stop time.

Shits fantastic

...except that we've never seen him without the shoes and have no reason to assume he chose them, and we know Chaos Control was something built into him.

[Shadowlax]

Just now, Diogenes said:

...except that we've never seen him without the shoes and have no reason to assume he chose them, and we know Chaos Control was something built into him.

Well... we don't know what was built into him... because we don't know how shadow came about, gerald could have found a hedgehog. But that's another discussion.

My main point is, you are missing the point? Its not about him choosing what he is, its about that power being reflective of his personality. This happens quite often in fiction characters who are thrusts into situations or given gifts outside of their control, but what it happens to be fits them so well. And that's the deal with shadow, because he was designed well

[Mountaindewandsprite]

47 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

S + - Chaos,  Mephiles, Light/Dark Gaia, Super Sonic/Shadow 

S - Big, Zavok, Zomom 

A - Shadow, Amy, Blaze Sonic, Zeena, Metal Sonic, Zazz

B - Knuckles, Vector, Rouge, Storm, Shade, E-101 Beta,  E-102 Gamma

C - Tails, Cream, Charmy, Marine, Ray, Tikal, Eggman 

How is Amy a higher rank than Knuckles?

[Diogenes]

3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Well... we don't know what was built into him... because we don't know how shadow came about, gerald could have found a hedgehog.

Feels like a real stretch to try to argue that the artificially created hedgehog, made as part of a project that also created the Chaos Control-using Biolizard, using the blood of the Chaos Control-using Black Doom, just happened to already be able to use Chaos Control.

3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

My main point is, you are missing the point? Its not about him choosing what he is, its about that power being reflective of his personality.

And you said Shadow's personality is that he'll do anything to get things done, that he'll "throw on some rocket jordans" to match someone's speed, but there's no evidence that he had any choice in the matter, considering he was wearing the same shoes since long before he'd have any need to compete with Sonic's speed.

If there's a point to draw from Shadow's rocket shoes, I'd say it's to emphasize the artificiality of his existence, how he was both designed to be "dark Sonic" out of canon and designed to be the "ultimate life form" within canon (which are pretty closely linked ideas), and arguably how he's sort of a failure to reach that point (since he presumably needs the rocket skates, an outside force, to match Sonic's natural speed).

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Feels like a real stretch to try to argue that the artificially created hedgehog, made as part of a project that also created the Chaos Control-using Biolizard, using the blood of the Chaos Control-using Black Doom, just happened to already be able to use Chaos Control.

Its not that huge of a stretch. Gerald was doing research, he probably found out hedgehogs had a natural connection to the chaos emeralds... and just scooped up a hedgehog to experiment on. Its dark, but I mean like that explains why no one else has seemingly created life including eggman. It gives a pretty nice explanation to a question that never needed answering " Why did Dr. Gerald make the ultimate life form a hedgehog " . There's never any clear picture on whether shadow was made or found...but it just makes way more sense that he was found and was augmented. Male hedgehogs could just have a predisposition to using chaos stuff, they are the only ones who could go super.

And he used this hedgehog to use his super genes to possibly find a cure of his grandaughters illness and provide the government a super weapon. As dark as that is, its not even out of character for Dr. Gerald. He was willing to work with obviously navarious aliens, built the biolizard, was the one who manipulated shadow's memories and got in bed with gun in the first place. In all honesty while no genetic connection, shadow's " I will do it anyway I have to " type of personality comes from Gerald.

Hedgehogs could already have the ability to chaos type stuff, or the potential, he just enhanced one he found to be able to do it more.

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

And you said Shadow's personality is that he'll do anything to get things done, that he'll "throw on some rocket jordans" to match someone's speed, but there's no evidence that he had any choice in the matter, considering he was wearing the same shoes since long before he'd have any need to compete with Sonic's speed.

I think you are taking statements WAY too literally. Also depending on how canon you think sonic rider's is. It seems like he can just change shoes... he just chooses to put those on. It isn't the shoes themselves, from my understanding he's just shooting chaos energy out of his feet as he runs.

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

If there's a point to draw from Shadow's rocket shoes, I'd say it's to emphasize the artificiality of his existence, how he was both designed to be "dark Sonic" out of canon and designed to be the "ultimate life form" within canon (which are pretty closely linked ideas), and arguably how he's sort of a failure to reach that point (since he presumably needs the rocket skates, an outside force, to match Sonic's natural speed).

Or... the thing I said Because it makes more sense? And works with his powerset because instead of going fast... he can negate the concept of fast itself... being stopping time and warping. And that with the rocket shoes plays into the idea that he's a character willing to do whatever it takes to win, even if it means literally shooting chaos energy out of his feet or warping reality. He's the guy who will do whatever it takes... you know... that thing that's EVERY shadow description... because its almost like its a key part of his character... because its almost like they intended that when they designed him.

 This doesn't feel arguable though. Them designing a character from jump to be " Guy willing to do anything to get what he wants" and having a powerset that is in a world like sonic, actually cheating, and then presenting him as this crazy powerful dude Isn't unintentional. Despite what you may think, sega is good at character designs and shadow has been one of the most successful ones. Its not about any failure on shadow's part, he can just warp space... so that a meaningless assessment on your part. Its about theme, and shadow's theme from his personality to his powers is " Screw you imma do it my way " .

I think you are taking this way too literally, shadow doesn't choose to do anything. He is a fictional character. He is designed to be a way, and I think the way that is is fairly obvious. 

 

 

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Upon reflection I think a tier list for this stuff in sonic is hard to make? Like I dunno, outside of super freaks,  there are characters in some tiers who I think could throw down with others. Like amy for example.There are others I don't actually think are that strong like omega. I think he's just kind of a sturdy robot.

Yeah, I clearly had to lump some characters into the same box despite there being some degree of a difference between them just to keep things relatively balanced.

Ergo, that moment when Cream, Charmy, and especially Master Zik are weaker than Maria.

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

Sonic at times has peoples powers be reflective of who they are.

Shadow's the type of guy who will do anything to get the job done.

He ain't faster than you? Let me throw on some rocket jordans and stop time.

Shits fantastic

Yeah, seriously.

I mean it manages to add him into the pre-established gameplan without being too jarring, gives his own distinct way of "running," and even opens up a recurring similarity with Metal.

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Diogenes said:

...except that we've never seen him without the shoes and have no reason to assume he chose them, and we know Chaos Control was something built into him.

Sonic: Say Shadow, there ever a time when you kick off those shoes?

Shadow: Shoes?

Sonic: Fine--you even take off those sweet kicks?

Shadow:...They aren't coming off.

1 hour ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

How is Amy a higher rank than Knuckles?

Dammit, I knew somethin had to be off.  

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Feels like a real stretch to try to argue that the artificially created hedgehog, made as part of a project that also created the Chaos Control-using Biolizard, using the blood of the Chaos Control-using Black Doom, just happened to already be able to use Chaos Control.

 

Well, actually...

[Diogenes]

52 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

but I mean like that explains why no one else has seemingly created life including eggman.

Eggman doesn't create life because robots are his deal first and foremost. And Gerald was a brilliant scientist working among brilliant scientists; it shouldn't be that surprising that others haven't managed to copy them.

52 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Or... the thing I said Because it makes more sense?

It doesn't make any sense. You're trying to give some special meaning to him using the moveset he was "born" with. It's like saying Sonic will do anything to succeed as evidenced by him running fast. If you were talking about Shadow using guns, something that he hadn't done before, something that Sonic explicitly said he'd never do, something that clashes with the spirit of the series, that you could fairly argue is showing a "do anything to win" kind of attitude. But just casually using the exact same abilities as always, whether they were inherent or granted to him, doesn't say anything like that.

52 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I think you are taking this way too literally, shadow doesn't choose to do anything. He is a fictional character.

Oh don't give me this shit. Fictional characters are written as making decisions within the fiction. You can't possibly not understand that.

[Shadowlax]

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Eggman doesn't create life because robots are his deal first and foremost. And Gerald was a brilliant scientist working among brilliant scientists; it shouldn't be that surprising that others haven't managed to copy them.

Actually he did. Because he tried to figure out how to make more shadows, or an equivalent to shadow and gave up and then tried to convince the real one he had already made him. So yes actually , if given the opportunity he would strait up make life. Infact, while its not what ended up happening... its what was gonna happen with infinite.

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It doesn't make any sense. You're trying to give some special meaning to him using the moveset he was "born" with.

Yes because he was a character who was designed with a purpose

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It's like saying Sonic will do anything to succeed as evidenced by him running fast.

No, but you can suggest that sonic has a free personality constantly moving and going forward and going with the flow. And that is represented by his moveset because he's a character designed by people. And they thought about that when they designed him.

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

 

If you were talking about Shadow using guns, something that he hadn't done before, something that Sonic explicitly said he'd never do, something that clashes with the spirit of the series, that you could fairly argue is showing a "do anything to win" kind of attitude.

Or we can use the examples that the people who designed these characters layed out because they are fairly simple to understand. Character has powers or physical traits reflective of their personality. This is pretty much a an almost consistent theme through out sonic and why this is surprising to you is strange

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

But just casually using the exact same abilities as always, whether they were inherent or granted to him, doesn't say anything like that.

It does because someone made him that way, its the intent of the people making him. The greater context of the theme trying to be communicated

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Oh don't give me this shit. Fictional characters are written as making decisions within the fiction. You can't possibly not understand that.

Oh boy, you still are getting overly upset and missing the entire point.

[Foxthefox1000]

Yeah, archie is a toughie, because if we use them, then you're leaving out the single most impressive lifting feats across all of the mediums, where Knuckles lifts an underwater fortress or something like that?

Also, I'm fine with the projected strength of "Power-type" characters, but I'm pretty sure that means bulky, but slow whem compared to their other teammates. Team Chaotix doesn't get enough spotlight, and it was at an EARLY point in the series' history where they actually kept up with Knux. Besides that, they're objectively the most least impressive team, enough so to the point where ranking Vector above the likes of Amy feels weird.

Silver is somehow able to warp space, pass through attacks and whole people, and travel at lightspeed momentarily all in a single ability through his psychic talent? What? I just read up on that and like, how is this guy not slowly becoming a mary sue? He can control time and space pretty casually with seemingly just his abilities, keep up with Sonic and Shadow and even move at lightspeed like them, and he's straight-up intangible while doing it? Also, he can utilize a psychic aura to keep up with a Chaos-Boosted Shadow? What!? This is actually freaking insane, and all projectiles-based attacks can be thrown right back at the others, paralyze them, and he can even cause headaches. Archie just makes his BS even worse. Not sure if IDW does even more for him.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

28 minutes ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

Silver is somehow able to warp space, pass through attacks and whole people, and travel at lightspeed momentarily all in a single ability through his psychic talent? What? I just read up on that and like, how is this guy not slowly becoming a mary sue? He can control time and space pretty casually with seemingly just his abilities, keep up with Sonic and Shadow and even move at lightspeed like them, and he's straight-up intangible while doing it? Also, he can utilize a psychic aura to keep up with a Chaos-Boosted Shadow? What!? This is actually freaking insane, and all projectiles-based attacks can be thrown right back at the others, paralyze them, and he can even cause headaches. Archie just makes his BS even worse. Not sure if IDW does even more for him.

Actually, Archie nerfs Silver’s telekinesis hard compared to all that. 

[Foxthefox1000]

I dunno. I know people can break out of it, but the functionality and demonstrated usages of his ESP are far beyond the Game canon. Clairvoyance and Telepathy, for one? Also, being able to open and close portals that are ripping through reality and apparently being "detached from Time itself"? Also, when sufficiently angered and achieving his ESP Aura form, he was able to give a, granted, toyful Enerjak some good resistance as well as when Enerjak was annoyed. That's more than Sonic or Shadow can say. 

If Silver continuously expands the horizons of his ESP and PK, and continues to grow and adapt, he may just become the undoubtedly strongest/most powerful character whereas he's in a more debatable spot right now.

 

[Dash Speed]

Threads like these just remind me that Sega doesn't consider the strongest character a rival of sonic. Especially Shadow, who's been surpassed by Sonic and silver in so many game breaking abilites feat wise. On paper Sonics super speed is as physics breaking as shadows chaos control and Silver can fight on par with reality warping people with psionics and no chaos emeralds.

[Skull Leader]

The way I see it, and only mortal characters, not indestructible demi-gods like Cheese that kills everything it touches like a cuddle and cute Kenshiro, nor walking sentient pieces of artillery like Omega. Also Eggman won't be participating because he's too old and filthy rich for this kind of shit.

Here we go!

1.- Big (honestly, he should be disqualified because after being retired by Iizuka years ago, he came back and ascended, becoming a god... but I'll allow it because I like mah boy Big)

2.- Vector

3.- Knuckles

4.- Amy

5.- Rouge

6.- Espio

7.- Shadow (come at me brah!)

8.- Sonic

9.- Blaze

10.- Silver

11.- Tails

12.- Cream

13.- Charmy

14.- Motobug

15.- Wisps

16.- Chao

17.- Mrs. Cream's mom

18.- Unleashed Cartoony Humans

19.- Maria (RIP)

20.- Generic realistic humans from 06

21.- Froggy

22.- Eggpawn #58356430 (the one that actually hurt the heroes)

And dead-last:

23.- Chocola Chao, who was as tasty as he was weak.

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, Skull Leader said:

The way I see it, and only mortal characters, not indestructible demi-gods like Cheese that kills everything it touches like a cuddle and cute Kenshiro, nor walking sentient pieces of artillery like Omega. Also Eggman won't be participating because he's too old and filthy rich for this kind of shit.

 

6.- Espio

7.- Shadow (come at me brah!)

 

14.- Motobug

 

17.- Mrs. Cream's mom

22.- Eggpawn #58356430 (the one that actually hurt the heroes)

Ha.

Espio stronger than Shadow, really?  

Any particular reason you included Motobug?

Vanilla.

Where was this one?