"Sonic Dissected" Dissected: (LEGO) Sonic Dimensions As You Truly Imagined It

[Zaysho]

I failed to explain this in the video.

Thank you for pointing it out.

I still stand by my point I was making, but the way i did it was very flawed indeed.

I may have just been nitpicky myself, but now that I understand the intention, I think what would've helped strengthen your view, in addition to explaining why you chose these scenes (I'm starting to get it), I think calling our attention to other games that do this as well but may not be as obvious (if Sonic's ego is something you want to point out, the Adventures are just as guilty of this and even Shadow's game, though my personal fanon is that game is told from Shadow's point of view so Sonic is made to look even more annoying). Not saying you have to drop the scenes from Black Knight, necessarily, but in context of the video I didn't see what you were going for at the time.

I honestly wouldn't mind lining up to be on a show to get some back and forth going, but I'm pretty deadpan in this sort of discussion and I'm not particularly well-spoken either. Sorry if I'm a little blunt with the feedback, but art school sorta beats that into you.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Didn't expect Roger himself to actually join the stadium, talk about reaching out lol.

This is like the fourth time this has happened. First with Pontac, then with Dead3ye, then with Frost, now with Roger.

 

SSMB is getting noticed, ain't it?

[FriendBot]

Greetings once again, thought this topic would die huh? WRONG!

 

Since things have settled, let us continue on more Dissected videos

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzzhRW-JarU

 

 

So this video is about Colors' animation and a lack of entertainment in them and are pretty much boring and such.

 

Which I agree since most of the cutscenes weren't very interesting since it lacked the "wow" factor most Sonic cutscenes have, whether it was jokes or action.

 

Question. When did anyone said that Colors was the "spiritual successor" of AoStH? I mean sure both were trying to be comedic and such but Colors was a light-hearted adventure which had too many jokes while the show was an over-the-top comedy show with wacky characters and PINGAS jokes. But I digress.

 

I don't see how Orbot and Cubot not being slapstick villains is bad since they are a bit subtle with the humor and they're in their own way, they work completely different from Scratch and Grounder or Decoe and Bocoe.

 

I do agree that maybe the animators were bored when they were making the cutscenes for the game but it could be just me.

 

I find it hilarious how Roger made the connection between Colors and Zelda CDi. XD

 

I do wish that Colors' cutscenes actually have Sonic and Tails do something besides talking and Yacker doing some weird stuff in the background.

 

The reason why Sonic and Tails are looking around is that they found the second generator (Sweet Mountain and Starlight Carnival does this for some reason?) and the first one they encounter was when Eggman was around so they're curious if Eggman was around the generator as well. But I'm not sure why Sonic was derping around for some reason.

 

At the end, Colors had boring cutscenes and needed a better art director and this video is short so yeah, what do you guys think?

[Nepenthe]

I don't really agree with his assessment about character animation being dependent upon characters always doing super interesting things in their sets all the time. The thrill of animating is making a thing that is obviously unreal and inanimate look convincing enough to an audience to get them invested in the abstract idea that the character is a person. Part of mastering that control is learning to reign your animation back in from the super-easy Disney-esque slapstick everyone gets taught in the beginning, to convey understated emotions and desires, to understand how real people move and act (hint: nothing like AoStH Sonic) and to use this knowledge to imbue your character with qualities that are relatable enough to engage the human brain. Granted, I get that it would be more difficult to wring this out of character models that are as relatively immobile as they are in the object-oriented animations that Roger has experience in, so that may be where the criticism is coming from, but it doesn't apply well to CG.

 

I mean, look at this scene from Frozen. Until Elsa gets particularly angry, nothing totally interesting happens except for characters standing around, sometimes walking about, and talking to each other. They're not interacting with anything in the set but each other. They also use gestures to point to desires and emotions (Elsa reaches for the glove as she asks for it back, etc.). But do you think the animators were bored when doing this? No, because they were tasked with understanding the character in this particular moment in time in the story, to get emotionally invested in them, and to challenge themselves on nailing all of the gestures- from larger body language to eye and eyelid movements- to make this scene what it is. That challenge of putting a human heart in a non-living entity like a drawing or model is, in itself, really interesting to most animators I've run across, whether or not they're doing realistic character scenes or wacky chase scenes.

 

Ultimately, the animation's lack of relative action in Colors is due to a story that relies on verbal slapstick to carry things, which there's nothing necessarily wrong with in a game where the action can sensibly be reserved for the gameplay, but I can agree with the sentiment that in a franchise like Sonic where you have characters that are ultimately super heroes in animal bodies, this kind of story structure is boring. And while I also agree we still could've seen much, much, much more of the theme park (whether that was through gameplay or story, I didn't really care, but seriously; way to drop the ball, Sonic Team), I don't think we needed to see the Bucket O' Sushi for the joke to work either. A big part of comedy is about allowing the audience to fill in the blanks on what happened through implications established in the set-up and punchline. Like, you don't need to see the fiery aftermath of this comic to laugh at it. 

[StaticMania]

Greetings once again, thought this topic would die huh? WRONG!

 

Since things have settled, let us continue on more Dissected videos

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzzhRW-JarU

 

 

So this video is about Colors' animation and a lack of entertainment in them and are pretty much boring and such.

 

Which I agree since most of the cutscenes weren't very interesting since it lacked the "wow" factor most Sonic cutscenes have, whether it was jokes or action.

I do wish that Colors' cutscenes actually have Sonic and Tails do something besides talking and Yacker doing some weird stuff in the background.

I agree with the bolded statement here, besides select few scenes every other cut scene was just boring ol' talking with nothing actually being accomplished or being that interesting. Seeing Sonic and Tails mostly stand around talking isn't entertaining to watch.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

So basically, Colors is an example of "Tell, Don't Show" hence why it feels weak in the cutscenes.

 

Nothing wrong with having the characters talk, but there's few things in the environment for them to do - so the characters talk about things to fill the void, acting out what's going on, and there's not much happening in the background whether it's the characters themselves or just the background characters we're not suppose to care about.

 

And really, much as I love Colors for its visuals and doing what Heroes failed to do as far as a simple plot goes, it hiccups make for a bland experience in some places.

 

And I suppose this continues to tie into Roger's belief that the Adventures set the standard of things. You see a lot more activity going on around the characters, particularly in SA2 when you get a glimpse of the world having more people around during the scene where Eggman is holding the world hostage with the Eclipse Cannon. In fact, this is what I think Unleashed does far better than either of the Adventures, as you see and interact with a greater world out there, get a glimpse of their personalities, likes, interests, culture. And funnily enough, most of it is optional for you to take part in. So whenever you do get a scene with just the main characters and no background, we at least know that there is an active world behind the characters, even if they're not actually there with it. (if that makes any sense)

 

So ironically, I believe the strength of that happened to be what we've gone without: MORE CHARACTERS! Not that having few characters can't make things interesting, or that you can't smother things up with having too many characters, but there's a certain kind of balance with these things that allows for more interesting scenes. No, they don't have to be playable. But really, you can very easily imagine Colors to be much more active and vibrant with them. Show Amy coming from a gift shop where she purchased some souvenirs - hell, make that souvenir a death trap or something that might blow up in their face. Have Shadow and Rouge mess around on some of the rides, show the Chaotix being goofy eating up all the damn cotton candy, have Cream and Vanilla tour the place.

 

But I suppose one could easily sum that up to time and money in making the models needed to populate the settings. I mean, all the stuff they did in Colors outside the cutscenes looks like it took up a lot of time as it is, but that's just my assumption.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

Question. When did anyone said that Colors was the "spiritual successor" of AoStH?

 

No "official" people did, obviously because most pro game reviewers don't have obscure knowledge in sonic history. But I'm pretty sure I ran into that statement quite often in forums, people I talked to, user reviewers, whatever. Maybe it's just me then.

 

And good points by you guys, indeed not every joke HAS to be visualized. Sonic Colors just had a starvation for visuals in the cutscenes.

Shame, considering how beautiful the stages can look.

 

And while I agree AOSTH's animation is obviously not the utlimate example of correct animation, the point I tried to make was more that AOSTH's animation fits with the comedy style they're going with, while Colors doesn't. It has the energy and crazyness of slapstick but the pacing and comedy material of a sitcom.

Hmm, and I do bring up Sonic adventure too often as a positive example.

Unleashed could have worked too, with Chip and the icecream truck as an example of a cutscene using the setting. Did Sonic Riders use the setting? Actually yeah, Jet sitting in his office banging his desk.

Ah well.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

And while I agree AOSTH's animation is obviously not the utlimate example of correct animation, the point I tried to make was more that AOSTH's animation fits with the comedy style they're going with, while Colors doesn't. It has the energy and crazyness of slapstick but the pacing and comedy material of a sitcom.

Actually, I think the problem with the pacing and material is more that what Colors was going for didn't make full use of its strength. To be exact, too little material and not enough pacing. Supposedly that leads to a more sitcom-y nature where people just talk about things and we're expected to laugh, instead of things happening to them that makes it funny - not really much going for the comedy material if you devote most of the energy only one shade of it.

 

That's not saying there weren't any moments beyond that. But of Colors was trying to go for the slapstick, it would have done well by being more active with it's characters and environment by working them more in a situational way. Kind of like how Eggman kicks his chair and it hits Cubot for example - bar Cubot bouncing off as though he were unharmed when it would have been better to have him hurt, you see these antics more with Eggman and his robots than you do with Sonic and Tails giving the latter a much blander feel than the former.

 

Say if you were to toss in the examples you gave, or have a scene where Tails tries sushi and gets sick instead of talking about it (the "tell, don't show" as I mentioned), or actually have people in the background like Unleashed did with its NPCs. The scene might have been different, although subtle. Now if we had some of the other characters get involved, like have the Chaotix eat up all the cotton candy, or Shadow and Rouge having a blast in one of the games you'd put in the background, or anything that makes the interstellar amusement park feel like an amusement park like you said in your video, then it would be a different feel altogether.

 

Mind you, it should be noted that this was during the time when people were still scapegoating all the characters, so I suppose that's probably another reason why Colors felt so empty in hindsight.

[TearForFear]

Come to think of it, AoStH and Colors have some similarities (some more far-fetched than others):

 

-the main characters (well, the only characters aside from the Wisps) are Sonic, Tails, Robotnik and two useless henchmen)

-Sonic gloats and throws cheesy one-liners at his enemies such as "It's time for me to start stoppin'!" which is something I can imagine be said with Jaleel White's voice

-Tails is like the little brother who stays out of action and befriends with a little creature who doesn't speak his language (in one episode of AoStH Tails befriended with Goopster, a blob monster from another dimension)

-Eggman's plan to be liked by everyone on Earth via brainwashing sounds like one of the plans of AoStH Robotnik

-Eggman himself, with his mannerism and some of his PSAs (such as "please Sonic The Hedghehog reports to the main desk. We have... huh... your keys!") reminds of the Robotnik voiced by Long John Baldry

 

And in general the simple plot reminds of some of AoStH episodes.

 

But of course Colors lacks slapsticks and action, which are "relegated" to the gameplay.

 

The fact that the main cast is so poor, I think it may come by the fact that most fans since Sonic Unleashed (or even since Sonic X, who knows) complained that Tails lost his role has Sonic's main sidekick. So SEGA restored this status quo in Colors

[FriendBot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ag-_-DZYAE

 

Good day folks, let's talk about another Dissected video or you can completely ignore this post or this topic............

 

Anyway, this video focuses on the character development of Amy and the flaws of Adventure 2.

 

First off, Amy was still herself in Heroes, and in other future titles, but introduced all that overly obsessed girlfriend nonsense.

 

In Adventure 2, I could see Amy being subtle about the situation while still can joke around a bit, that scene was pretty alright I'll agree.

 

If Amy considers being kidnapped as being on an adventure, she probably has a boring life, messing around with dem tarot cards and such and I too am quite surprised how Amy didn't really mention anything about being in love with Sonic in the Adventure games, sure she looks to him as a hero but never had the intention to marry him, all she wanted was respect from Sonic, never love or marriage. Granted, I don't mind Amy having a crush on Sonic but don't blow it out of proportions, make use of it to make her more interesting, not as comedic relief.

 

Which makes me question why would the writers write Amy as an overly obsessed girlfriend in later games?

 

I agree with Luke with the character arc with Amy from CD to Adventure 2. 

 

But Amy is still herself though in Heroes, being an optimist about things and such. Just look at the first cutscene of Team Rose's story.

 

 

 

 

Now onto the flaws of Adventure 2, with special guest Frobman.

 

I find it hilarious on how Roger is completely oblivious on the fact that Frob was the one throwing rocks at him.

 

Frob mentions how Adventure 2's story was way too dark for its own good but to be honest, the story also has its fair share of light-hearted moments whether it was Eggman having a tantrum or the prison scene with Sonic and Amy. The story may have been a bit dark at times but it doesn't got over-the-top dark and edgy, like Shadow, or becomes a furry drama, like in 06. 

 

Eggman holding a gun doesn't seem that dark, but the gun did look a bit realistic, but threatening to kill some is though. I mean Eggman hold and used a gun in Lost World but then again it was a more cartoony looking kind of gun, so yeah.

 

Roger did make a strong point on how Sonic's gameplay was all about action and spectacles, makes you kind of wonder what memorable setpieces Lost World has but we'll get to that eventually.

 

I would disagree with Roger on how the Advance series and Sonic 4 aren't very memorable, sure some of the levels didn't stand out as other games did but I'm pretty sure everyone can remember atleast one part from Advance 3, whether it was the gravity gimmick from Cyber Track or the falling platforms from Chaos Angel. 4 also had some setpieces like in Episode 1's levels all had a certain gimmick whether it was ziplines, minecarts, cards giving ring bonuses and lives or instakill crushers. Episode II had different settings in each zone with their own gimmicks to make each level unique.

 

That moment where Luke contradicts himself though. Hipster Luke XD

 

Sonic can have some serious moments but it can't be all dark and mature or else you'll get Shadow or 06' tone of the story. But it can't be all light-hearted with stupid jokes and such like in Colors. There needs to be a balance of dark and light-hearted elements in a Sonic story or a story in general to make it entertaining. Which is why I hold Lost World's story in a pedestal, it does have a few issues but it balances these elements well enough for me to enjoy it.

 

"They can't just go into a new direction....." 

 

Well it is Sega's franchise and Sonic Team can do with said franchise but Adventure 2's story can be a bit too dark for some people to enjoy but there is nice pacing in the story and light hearted moments for others to enjoy. 

 

I want to make a statement about how this video makes use of Frobman. Like I from SuperPsyGuy's review of Lost World, Frob was the more levelheaded and neutral guy while PsyGuy despise Lost World. But in this video, Frobman is made to be the unreasonable hater of Adventure 2. I know that this video was made before PsyGuy's review so maybe Frob changed during that time period.

 

That cutscene with Knuckles meeting up with Tails and Amy was rather weird and it wasn't entirely needed so yeah, just a filler cutscene.

 

Now Roger and Luke discuss about what does the franchise mean by "the ultimate life form".

 

Granted it might've been a mistranslation when Sonic said "fake hedgehog". With Mephiles, when he mentioned it, he already encountered Shadow multiple times before since Wave Ocean in Shadow's story is the 2nd last level so Mephiles probably knows what Shadow is capable of but I wouldn't know. 

 

I also liked how Roger is being very academic with the idea of pizza that can kick butt.

 

But Shadow can't age and is nearly invincible so yeah, Shadow might be a better survivor but then again Sonic has the ultimate power: PLOT ARMOUR!

 

At this point, Roger and Luke are just making baseless statements and are overlooking at minor details so not much to say around here. So yeah that concludes today's video.

[Double A]

Funny that this topic is on the edge of death now that you finally arrived to an ep against SA2. Where is everybody.

[Nepenthe]

Probably posting in other topics that are more enticing to them than a continuing debate about a video series people have already attested they found annoying in its presentation and thus were less likely to continue talking about as time went on. Praytell, why are you trying to stir up shit instead of participating properly?

[Rusty Spy]

There really isn't much to really discuss about these videos, for me at least. I'd just be parroting what was already said, and don't have anything to add to the analysis unless it was anything that I thought differently about.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It does make it all the more obvious why both the Adventures have made quite a standard compared to a number of games after it, even with their flaws.

 

Interesting words they had for Amy tho, I mean I wouldn't exactly see her as the soul of the group or her part in the Adventures as a character arc than it was just her being an actually, decently written character, but that video made it all the more glaring the flanderization she's had in other games later on.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Question. When did anyone say that Colors was the "spiritual successor" of AoStH?

 

Nobody has ever said or claimed this. Be they official or unofficial sources. 

[FriendBot]

Nobody has ever said or claimed this. Be they official or unofficial sources. 

 

I asked this question since Roger keeps on stating how Colors was supposed to be the successor to AoStH in the video despite me not hearing this at all, which made me question this.

[Rusty Spy]

Maybe not specifically a spiritual successor, but I have heard many people compare Color's tone to AoStH. It was mostly the fans who considered it a successor to the 'spirit' of AoStH.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Maybe not specifically a spiritual successor, but I have heard many people compare Color's tone to AoStH. It was mostly the fans who considered it a successor to the 'spirit' of AoStH.

 

But tone doesn't mean spiritual anything.

 

I can honestly say that the play King Ubu has a similar tone to Lollipop Chainsaw. 

 

That would mean that Lollipop Chainsaw is the spiritual sequel to King Ubu, which is based on Macbeth & Hamlet. 

 

Therefore, Lollipop Chainsaw is the spiritual sequel to William Shakespeare's King Lear & Macbeth.

[Kuzu]

You're using two completely unrelated series for an analogy, while the Colors and AOSTH example are within the same franchise. Not sure how those cases are the same.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Funny that this topic is on the edge of death now that you finally arrived to an ep against SA2. Where is everybody.

 

Elsewhere enjoying more other fun threads and topics, I would assume.

 

And what do you mean by "against SA2"? AT most they legitimately critique the story, as opposed to directing the video against SA2.

 

And since THAT one in  particular is one of the videos that gives me a very negative outlook and how they portrayed folks who don't like SA2's story, I'd rather not end up going into another debate, let alone igniting it with my negativity and discomfort of such.

[Badnik Mechanic]

You're using two completely unrelated series for an analogy, while the Colors and AOSTH example are within the same franchise. Not sure how those cases are the same.

 

So it's ok for this dude to compare a TV show with a game.

 

But not ok for me to compare a play to a game because they're not from the same franchise? 

 

Even though we've classified some games which are not from the same franchise as being spiritual sequels to games. Mighty Number 9 would be a very recent example. The Souls games are another example, especially when Kings Field is thrown in.

[Kuzu]

Except we're talking about plot structure and characters, being a game doesn't really matter in this case. Secondly, what you stated is a pretty big slippery slope of a fallacy. Mighty No. 9 is made by the same creator, who has admitted to it being a successor to Mega Man. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rusty Spy]

But tone doesn't mean spiritual anything.

 

I can honestly say that the play King Ubu has a similar tone to Lollipop Chainsaw. 

 

That would mean that Lollipop Chainsaw is the spiritual sequel to King Ubu, which is based on Macbeth & Hamlet. 

 

Therefore, Lollipop Chainsaw is the spiritual sequel to William Shakespeare's King Lear & Macbeth.

Well it's a lot less vauge than that.

 

-emphasis on simple story with 'wacky' premise

-Sonic and Tails vs Eggman and two bumbling henchmen

-lighthearted and focus on comedy rather than action

 

If you don't want to apply the word 'spiritual successor', the game's story uses elements that envoke a similar style and feel to the old tv show, hence why many fans make comparisions between the two.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Except we're talking about plot structure and characters, being a game doesn't really matter in this case. Secondly, what you stated is a pretty big slippery slope of a fallacy. Mighty No. 9 is made by the same creator, who has admitted to it being a successor to Mega Man. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

No we're not. 

 

At least not according to that bit I quoted, we're talking just tone.

[Kuzu]

Wait we aren't? If it's just the tone then yea that's a pretty large stretch.

Colors is definitely similar to AOSTH, but it's more than just simply the tone.

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