How Sega can fix Sonic

[SegaFanatic]

This is what Sega needs to do to fix Sonic. This isn't a troll post, but what actually needs to happen (in my opinion) before they suffer another downwards spiral starting with Lost World.

 

1) Reboot the series, call the new game "Sonic the Hedgehog"

 

2) Bring back Classic Sonic's model from Generations

 

3) Make the game 2.5D. Replicate the physics from Sonic 3 & Knuckles as close as possible

 

4) Base the levels off of classic favorites from Sonic 1-3, as well as brand new stages

 

5) Each Zone should have 3 acts, and slowly progress from day to night in each Zone.

 

6) The first level should be a blend of Green Hill Zone and Spring Yard Zone, to give the iconic first level feel, but not be too similar to Lost World's Windy Hill. Introduces the classic loop de loops and pinball mechanics. In the beginning you have no Spin Dash, you unlock it a bit later. The track for this first stage should simply be Green Hill Zone, with a slower more soothing version that plays during the night time. This is the only reused music track, all other levels should have original music that is catchy and memorable, just like the classic games. (Except the Sonic 1 title screen theme). Repetitive enough to get stuck in your head but not too repetitive.

 

7) You face Dr Robotnik on the 3rd act of each zone, he has the ball and chain mech for the first fight but every boss after that is original.

 

8) There are 10 Zones, and 7 brand new special stages with a new mechanic, but keep the bird/fish theme from Sonic 1.

 

9) When you complete the game as Sonic, you unlock Tails. Tails can access alternate paths via flight.

 

10) When you complete the game as Tails, you unlock Knuckles. Knuckles can break through rocks to access hidden areas and climb walls.

 

11) No cutscenes except a high budget CGI intro sequence, and finale sequence.

 

12) Invest as much money as possible into advertising the game. E.g. large billboards with Sonic wagging his finger in the trademark emblem, with "The Most Famous Hedgehog In The World", "You've Never Seen Anything Like It"

 

13) An attention grabbing commercial with a moment's silence with a white screen so people will turn around while eating, then the iconic "SEGA!", before showing Sonic wag his finger at the title screen. The commercial instantly ends, so people are encouraged to research "Sonic the Hedgehog."

 

14) The Sonic website simply shows the title emblem, and coming soon with release platforms.

 

15) Release on PS4, Xbox One, iOS and 3DS. If the iOS version does well, port to Android. 

 

16) Extra features include time attack, score attack with leaderboards. Also local and online Sonic/Tails co-op play.

 

This is what I think needs to happen for Sonic to go back to his glory days. This is not a nostalgia fuelled mission to relive my childhood, but what I legitimately feel needs to happen for Sonic to be successful again. Sonic was popular because he was different from the competition. Every Sonic game since Adventure had original ideas but started to adopt ideas from other games in order to "fit in". Sonic needs to go back to what made him popular in the first place. New children will fall in love with Sonic if this happens. I hope somehow somebody at Sega reads this, time is running out.

[Toby]

Not a nostalgia fueled mission? That's exactly what this is! You lied to me!

[SegaFanatic]

Not a nostalgia fueled mission? That's exactly what this is! You lied to me!

Regardless of your thoughts on that, how do you feel about these ideas? I'm willing to be lenient on them keeping Modern Sonic if they absolutely must, but at least have unlock-able classic skins. But I really think Classic appeals to children more especially.

Edited November 15, 2013 by ComeOnSegaDoIt

[MegaMan_EXE]

Yeah... we don't need a reboot. Lost World might have not been as good as some of us thought, but it's the first in a new gameplay style. I'm sick of reboot talk.

[Komodin]

... Eh.

Sonic 4 pretty much poisoned me to ideas like this. Honestly, the last thing we need is another game that is basically yet another "Neo-Classic" title - it would just make it look like Sonic can never move on from his glory days.

[SegaFanatic]

Yeah... we don't need a reboot. Lost World might have not been as good as some of us thought, but it's the first in a new gameplay style. I'm sick of reboot talk.

Well the reason I say reboot is because it can restore Sonic's reputation as a whole, and a game simply called "Sonic the Hedgehog" will sell very well, proof of that is 06. Also kids would have no idea what "Sonic 5" or "Sonic Adventure 3" means. But if you can think of a new subtitle that'd be fine as well.

 

 

... Eh.

Sonic 4 pretty much poisoned me to ideas like this. Honestly, the last thing we need is another game that is basically yet another "Neo-Classic" title - it would just make it look like Sonic can never move on from his glory days.

 

I get what you mean but in my opinion he has never relived his glory days, only through visual aesthetics, not gameplay.

Edited November 15, 2013 by ComeOnSegaDoIt

[Semi-colon e]

Rebooting the franchise isn't the "quick fix everything's all good" you think it is. The playerbase of Sonic is so fractured and everyone wants different things. Sonic will probably never try and live up to the glory days he had once again, but he's not "doomed" if he doesn't. If he can pull out of Sonic 2006, he can surely pull out of Lost World, even though that game is more divisive than purely bad from what I've heard (not played either version of it).

[WhoWhatMan]

This is what Sega needs to do to fix Sonic. This isn't a troll post, but what actually needs to happen (in my opinion) before they suffer another downwards spiral starting with Lost World.

 

1) Reboot the series, call the new game "Sonic the Hedgehog"

 

 

Total success.

Edited November 15, 2013 by KaBlamJamDan

[Vertekins]

1.) Unnecessary. Reboots are not the answer. If certain aspects of the series continuity wise don't sit well, either ignore it or retcon it. Throwing 22 years of material in the bin is frankly ridiculous and a cop-out when things can be done to smooth-out the series as it currently is.

 

2.) No. Classic Sonic in Gens was a one-game deal. Sonic's had his Modern design far, far longer than his Classic one and there's nothing wrong with it. I've always thought that this line of thinking that Modern's design should be tossed in the bin and Classic's permanently brought back was a result of bias against design i.e Tying modern game's 'failings' with the Modern design.

 

3.) Sonic 4 was bad at 2D. Sonic Colours was bad at 2.5D. Sonic Generations was also pretty poor at it. Why do you think that forcing one specific design on levels is a automatically brilliant idea when Sonic Team have yet to prove that they can actually do it competently?

 

4.) I want to see originality, not carbon copies of previous stages. I like refreshing new designs and tropes for stages, not excessive retreads. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is sick to death of seeing the likes of Seaside Hill getting shown time and time again.

 

5.) Nice idea. Like to see this aspect work it's way into narrative too.

 

6.) Why this fixation with the 'tropical paradise for opening stage'? It got tired a long time ago.

 

7.) *Yawn* Seen it before. The only reason as to why that boss would be clamoured to be brought back is nostalgia rather than originality or fun factor.

 

8.) Depends on the length of the stages. Why something as arbitrary as a special stage background? Nostalgia again?

 

9.) Don't see why Tails shouldn't be playable from the start. It was understandable in Sonic CD remake.

 

10.) See 9.

 

11.) Story is not inherently evil. Repeat after me; Story is not inherently evil and if you think it is and shouldn't be a part of a Sonic game at all, stop acting like a self-entitled brat and locate the skip cutscene button if story so offends you in a Sonic game instead of demanding that others be deprived of it for your own irrational views.

 

12.) Or invest more money into actually developing the game so it's as well-funded as possible. It's no secret that Sonic games in the past have been constrained by budget believe it or not.

 

13.) Too vague. Teasers like that don't tell you anything. When you make something as information-less and cliche as that, it's hard to garner real attention.

 

14.) Neither one way or the other about that.

[SegaFanatic]

 

Total success.

Very funny but 2006 strayed as far away from what Sonic was as you possibly can.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Regardless of your thoughts on that, how do you feel about these ideas? 

 

I think they're terrible.

 

They rely completely on nostalgia.

 

It is nothing more than a 'please remake Sonic 1' on modern consoles list.

 

The console development plans considering the goals you've put on it. e.g. "I want a 2.5D game" Ok so a side scroller which doesn't have much in terms of requirements? Right... so why are we developing it for the PS4 Xbox One when this can be done for a fraction of the cost on the 3DS & Vita and then consider porting it to the PSN/XBLA as a digital download title only, or just limiting it to the mobile market completely?

 

We want to introduce the game with a stunning CGI sequence... then give the player a 2.5D exerpeince?

 

The marketing campaign is outright lying to the customer "You've never seen anything like it" Except for this this this this and this.

 

The marketing campaign expects the customer to research the product... when it should sell the product... and even if anyone bothers to research the product... given this idea is a reboot (when it's blatently not) will outright lie to their expectations.

 

Also kids would have no idea what "Sonic 5" or "Sonic Adventure 3"

 

I have seen kids cry out for Sonic Adventure 3 who were not even born when Sonic Adventure 2 came out. And nobody has seriously asked for a Sonic 5 thanks to the joy that was Sonic 4... which a lot of this plan sounds like too.

[SegaFanatic]

I think they're terrible.

 

They rely completely on nostalgia.

 

It is nothing more than a 'please remake Sonic 1' on modern consoles list.

 

The console development plans considering the goals you've put on it. e.g. "I want a 2.5D game" Ok so a side scroller which doesn't have much in terms of requirements? Right... so why are we developing it for the PS4 Xbox One when this can be done for a fraction of the cost on the 3DS & Vita and then consider porting it to the PSN/XBLA as a digital download title only, or just limiting it to the mobile market completely?

 

We want to introduce the game with a stunning CGI sequence... then give the player a 2.5D exerpeince?

 

The marketing campaign is outright lying to the customer "You've never seen anything like it" Except for this this this this and this.

 

The marketing campaign expects the customer to research the product... when it should sell the product... and even if anyone bothers to research the product... given this idea is a reboot (when it's blatently not) will outright lie to their expectations.

 

 

 

 

I have seen kids cry out for Sonic Adventure 3 who were not even born when Sonic Adventure 2 came out. And nobody has seriously asked for a Sonic 5 thanks to the joy that was Sonic 4... which a lot of this plan sounds like too.

You raise some good points. Would you be welcome to some new mechanics/gimmicks, but still have the game be 2.5D? The reason I want the old physics back is because it made going fast feel fun, boost gets stale and Lost World disguised the boost as a "Spin Dash". Kids like the enjoyment of "uncontrollable slides".

[Jimbo]

Sonic Team would not scrap the new formula one game in.

 

All of these ideas are based on nostalgia. Sorry, but it is not going to happen. The closest thing you are going to your request is Sonic 4.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Toejam

[SegaFanatic]

Sega would not scrap the new formula one game in.

 

All of these ideas are based on nostalgia. Sorry, but it is not going to happen. The closest thing you are going to your request is Sonic 4.

Sonic Lost World was largely nostalgia based as well, apart from the gameplay.

 

And vertikins I mean some stages with a similar vibe of the Sonic 1-3 stages plus original stages. So new, but "Sonicy" if that makes sense.

Edited November 15, 2013 by ComeOnSegaDoIt

[Solkia]

Sega is the publisher. Sonic Team makes the games.

[SegaFanatic]

Sega is the publisher. Sonic Team makes the games.

I am aware, I say Sega out of habit. I am obsessed with Sonic the Hedgehog, not much I don't know... Lol. Anyway even if the first Sonic game had boost gameplay, introducing physics based gameplay would still be more fun. Nostalgia aside. Without these things Sonic is just a fast Mario. The slopes and the way Sonic interacted with them is what made him different.

 

And I say 2.5D because the full classic physics simply cannot work in 3D. Except for Sonic going faster down hills, but that's it. Building up speed by rolling back and forth would be awkward in 3D.

Edited November 15, 2013 by ComeOnSegaDoIt

[Nepenthe]

Just popping in to say: keep this thread civil. There's been little wrong with it or the way it's been presented. Our new member's actually been highly respectful, but the idea's relative lack of popularity is an open invitation to the dog-piling, flaming, image-only posts and other related shittiness we've been trying to curb. It's happened too many times before and I want to nip that in the bud. Discuss the topic like adults. Don't make staff have to come in here with rage in our eyes. <3

[Diogenes]

This is not a nostalgia fuelled mission to relive my childhood

Yes it is.

It's masturbatory garbage that would almost certainly kill the series by turning it into nothing more than an imitation of a 20+ year old game. Now I love the Genesis Sonics and I do think the series has a lot to learn from them, but regressing into copies of them instead of evolving and adapting is a death sentence, plain and simple.

[Xenos]

I am aware, I say Sega out of habit. I am obsessed with Sonic the Hedgehog, not much I don't know... Lol. Anyway even if the first Sonic game had boost gameplay, introducing physics based gameplay would still be more fun. Nostalgia aside. Without these things Sonic is just a fast Mario. The slopes and the way Sonic interacted with them is what made him different.

 

And I say 2.5D because the full classic physics simply cannot work in 3D. Except for Sonic going faster down hills, but that's it. Building up speed by rolling back and forth would be awkward in 3D.

 

There are plenty of ways to make the classic gameplay in 3D work, it would be a very difficult thing to execute but it is not outright impossible.

 

Sonic Lost World already lets Sonic roll at the press of the button, and if the physics work and he picks up speed going downhill, we already have the base for everything else. Now you just need level design that uses itself as a means to gain speed instead of using the speed as a mains of skipping or cutting corners of the level design. Something the boost trilogy and Lost World even haven't realized yet.

[SegaFanatic]

Yes it is.

It's masturbatory garbage that would almost certainly kill the series by turning it into nothing more than an imitation of a 20+ year old game. Now I love the Genesis Sonics and I do think the series has a lot to learn from them, but regressing into copies of them instead of evolving and adapting is a death sentence, plain and simple.

Well I am open to new ideas as well, as long as they don't detract from the core experience I'm talking about. For example I think the parkour could work with classic level design, and give Sonic his own climbing ability like Knuckles'. Have this be a parkour button instead of a run button. And the Spin Dash can be kept as holding down a button or activating the classic way like Generations handled it. But not have it randomly slower when you do it that way lol.

[LATER BUDDY]

While these could make for a potentially fun game, like many others have said, I don't think nostalgia drive is what the series needs to "fix" Sonic.

 

It's definitely nice nods to the past when we get them at times, and something I really enjoyed with Sonic Lost World actually. There was a fair amount of classic fodder such as flickies, an army of classic badniks, and even Sonic 2 ending capsules; but the game it self didn't necessarily focus on making it "modern classic Sonic game," more over still trying to be it's own new thing.

 

And that's what I think the series should be doing, and I personally believe Lost World was a great step in that direction. It's a bold and fresh step in a new direction, trying it's best to cater to many gameplay styles over the years and fans from all eras. Was it perfect? No. There's definitely work to be done on it, such as working on the flow of the game, axe the gimmicks /no one/ likes, next time not rely on the tube level design, and maybe give him a better sense of speed at times. As for the rest? He plays decently well (parkour needing a touch up aside), and more importantly I feel like it was a nice balance of just about everything over the years.

 

What I'm getting at is that I feel he's already making a great stride in the "right" direction with Lost World, and I just never think it's a fair judgement to think that a first attempt at a total sever from the tired boost gameplay is going to be the most godtier heavenly call of a tenouttaten Sonic game. That said, it's a damn good first attempt and again can't wait to see what it blossoms into. I think a "reboot" just happened with this game, I don't see the point for another one when there's such a solid idea in our hands already to be tinkered with.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

How about we look at the mistakes, learn from them, and fix them?

No, removing something is not fixing it, it's ignoring it. And frankly, in an age where Classic fans aren't the only fans out there, when we have the likes of Adventure fans, Modern fans, and All-around fans of the series, most of the ideas in the OP are a total middle finger to these fans who would equally want to throw money into the series to help it achieve glory.

 

You want my thoughts? I think they should:

 

1) NOT ignore 3D. They can still make a 2D or 2.5D game, but they don't need to forgo trying 3D.

 

2) Take the strong elements of the Classics, Adventures, and Lost World and find a way to make them co-exist and mesh with the gameplay. Instead of Lost World's tubular level design, unravel it into a larger world that allows for the parkour and multiple paths, turning it into an improvement of what the Adventures tried, while working to get the physics of the Classic 2D titles working in 3D. Use Parkour in Lost World to make Sonic more acrobatic and maneuverable as he is better able to access areas of the level that he couldn't easily have done in past games as he is able to run up and across walls, wall kick to reach higher ledges, or bounce off walls to reach other ledges.

 

3) Make better stories. You don't like them, locate the skip button and save yourself the trouble. You're not missing out on anything, but for some fans having a good story only serves to enhance their fun and experience as it makes them continue to play the game. Make the script enjoyable for a family audience, not just for children. While they weren't the only aspect of the games, the Adventures weren't memorable for nothing, whether you like them or not.

 

4) If we're having multiple characters (and that's a BIG "If"), go the S3&K route and make them completely OPTIONAL. And the cast doesn't need to be restricted to just Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles. We have Shadow fans, we have Blaze fans, we have Silver fans, we have Metal Sonic fans, Amy fans, and so forth. These fans are no less deserving than you are to play as their favorite characters. Find ways to make their gameplay enjoyable without going the path of genre roulette; any end goal Sonic has, all the other characters should have. If Sonic simply needs to reach the end of the level, everyone else needs reach the end of the level.

 

5) Nostalgia is never a bad thing, but never rely on it. Allow room for growth and newer elements, but more importantly PLAN THIS STUFF OUT! (which they probably do, but just a note)

 

With the people who buy Sonic games, whether Classic fans, Modern fans, or Casual fans, you need to have a middle ground that doesn't alienate these groups. And if you do make a game that appeals specifically to Classic fans, it's only far Modern fans get their fix of what they love about the series, while Casual fans will just play Sonic regardless.

[Blacklightning]

How Sega can fix Sonic:

 

1) Make a good game

 

Why's this gotta be a question of demographs and fanbases and "no I don't want nostalgiafaggotry for the sake of it except that's exactly what I'm asking for"? For just once I'd like to see Sonic Team make a game that's smooth, polished and functional, and not have to worry about whether they're pandering to a certain subsect of the fandom again at everyone else's expense. I'm fucking sick of it.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

It won't matter how good or bad the ideas are if the PEOPLE making the game suffer from a combination of incompetence and meddling as a result of conflicting views from an incredibly fractured fanbase and charlatan critics, as well as a parent company who probably dictates what can be done. There is just simply too many factors both within and outside of the Sonic franchise to say that "so and so idea will guarantee success and acclaim".

[Eternal EX]

How about we look at the mistakes, learn from them, and fix them?

No, removing something is not fixing it, it's ignoring it. And frankly, in an age where Classic fans aren't the only fans out there, when we have the likes of Adventure fans, Modern fans, and All-around fans of the series, most of the ideas in the OP are a total middle finger to these fans who would equally want to throw money into the series to help it achieve glory.

 

You want my thoughts? I think they should:

 

1) NOT ignore 3D. They can still make a 2D or 2.5D game, but they don't need to forgo trying 3D.

 

2) Take the strong elements of the Classics, Adventures, and Lost World and find a way to make them co-exist and mesh with the gameplay. Instead of Lost World's tubular level design, unravel it into a larger world that allows for the parkour and multiple paths, turning it into an improvement of what the Adventures tried, while working to get the physics of the Classic 2D titles working in 3D. Use Parkour in Lost World to make Sonic more acrobatic and maneuverable as he is better able to access areas of the level that he couldn't easily have done in past games as he is able to run up and across walls, wall kick to reach higher ledges, or bounce off walls to reach other ledges.

 

3) Make better stories. You don't like them, locate the skip button and save yourself the trouble. You're not missing out on anything, but for some fans having a good story only serves to enhance their fun and experience as it makes them continue to play the game. Make the script enjoyable for a family audience, not just for children. While they weren't the only aspect of the games, the Adventures weren't memorable for nothing, whether you like them or not.

 

4) If we're having multiple characters (and that's a BIG "If"), go the S3&K route and make them completely OPTIONAL. And the cast doesn't need to be restricted to just Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles. We have Shadow fans, we have Blaze fans, we have Silver fans, we have Metal Sonic fans, Amy fans, and so forth. These fans are no less deserving than you are to play as their favorite characters. Find ways to make their gameplay enjoyable without going the path of genre roulette; any end goal Sonic has, all the other characters should have. If Sonic simply needs to reach the end of the level, everyone else needs reach the end of the level.

 

5) Nostalgia is never a bad thing, but never rely on it. Allow room for growth and newer elements, but more importantly PLAN THIS STUFF OUT! (which they probably do, but just a note)

 

With the people who buy Sonic games, whether Classic fans, Modern fans, or Casual fans, you need to have a middle ground that doesn't alienate these groups. And if you do make a game that appeals specifically to Classic fans, it's only far Modern fans get their fix of what they love about the series, while Casual fans will just play Sonic regardless.

 

This pretty much sums up my ideas as well.

 

Just saying, I think this is where ST/Sega fails the most at. They try so hard to regain their old CLASSIC fans with nostalgia, that they start to alienate the modern, Adventure and casual fans/players. If they could somehow find a middle line that could work for all, that would be a start in the right direction. Look at mario. It's core style has not changed since Mario 64. Same for Legend Of Zelda. The only real thing that changed was the story, added gimmicks and look of the game. If you want to take a step further.....COD. Everyone knows this series has not changed in nearly 10 years. Yet it sells. Why? Because it does not fix what is not broken. (to their fans) If their fans, old and new, like the same old FPS style they started with. Why change it?