Lost World: Discussion, Impressions and Fan Reviews

[Kuzu]

No, that's not "about it". The idea that the game was "watered down" is extremely debatable considering how shallow the gameplay as to begin with. The only way I could see that holding any water is in the 3D sections of the game. Everything else? Not really. The platforming (while not being everyone's cup of tea), generally larger level design, and power-ups at least added much needed depth to the game and promoted the idea of playing a level in different ways and such, something Unleashed struggled to do.

The platforming is extremely generic blocks with nothing really interesting done with them to make for a visually impressive experience, the levels really aren't that larger since you're more or less still confined to a set path, and the power ups you speak of are restricted to context sensitive areas and don't really add much aside from a 15 second distraction from the main gameplay.

Unleashed established a very basic and shallow gameplay style, but it also had plenty of spectacle to go along with it. Colors basically takes away all of the spectacle by restricting you to 2D most of the time and having none of the visually appealing set pieces. That's why I call it watered down, it takes everything from its predecessor and downplays it and doesn't leave much of a lasting impression as a result.

 

 

 

 

How exactly are they more consistent? The only two games they made (Unleashed and Gens) are vastly different in many ways, with only the modern gameplay being generally the same. Colors and Generations are not two wildly different products with design phloshphies on opposite ends of the spectrum, all three titles are cut from the same cloth and Colors didnt really do anything that's wildly different from is predecessor or successor.

When I say consistent, I mean within the games themselves; as in the game establishes a style and sticks with it and variate between it. Unleashed is twitchy trial and error gameplay and a beat'em up and doesn't really deviate from that. Generations is an expansive Day time gameplay and Classic 2D gameplay and doesn't really deviate from that.

Colors has one basic level and then 4-5 gimmick acts, Lost World has style that's all over the damn place. Mazes, auto-running, etc. etc. Its a hodgepodge of so many different styles in an attempt at "variety" but it just kinda loses itself.

[Wraith]

Most of Unleashed's acts outside of main ones had dumb gimmicks to them. Often far dumber than Colors's gimmicks. I don't know what game you were playing. 

 

Also, within Colors, the gimmicky acts don't actually deviate much from the main ones aside from being short. Even then there's usually two or three longer acts per world. Colors may be a smaller experience, yeah, but I don't know what you were expecting considering it was on the Wii while Unleashed was on vastly more powerful machines. I also believe watered down is the wrong term to use considering it's reception sort of proves otherwise. Maybe "Tweaked"?

 

I wont bother speaking for Lost World because I haven't played it in full.

[Soniman]

The platforming is extremely generic blocks with nothing really interesting done with them to make for a visually impressive experience, the levels really aren't that larger since you're more or less still confined to a set path, and the power ups you speak of are restricted to context sensitive areas and don't really add much aside from a 15 second distraction from the main gameplay.

Unleashed established a very basic and shallow gameplay style, but it also had plenty of spectacle to go along with it. Colors basically takes away all of the spectacle by restricting you to 2D most of the time and having none of the visually appealing set pieces. That's why I call it watered down, it takes everything from its predecessor and downplays it and doesn't leave much of a lasting impression as a result.

 

In the main levels you are most certainly not confined to a set path, levels like Sweet Mountain, Planet Wisps and ESPECIALLY Aquarium Park feature a rather large expanse of paths with a multitude of ways you can go about beating a stage.

 

And "15 second distraction" is somewhat of an exaggeration, the Rocket, Hover, Spike and Drill wisps accessed entirely different parts of the level that you could not reach by normal means add that to all the collectables you find in said areas and I believe they justify being there as it adds more to the game.

 

Calling it "watered down" because it lacks cinematic fair just....well ill just say it's not something I personally agree with.

When I say consistent, I mean within the games themselves; as in the game establishes a style and sticks with it and variate between it. Unleashed is twitchy trial and error gameplay and a beat'em up and doesn't really deviate from that. Generations is an expansive Day time gameplay and Classic 2D gameplay and doesn't really deviate from that.

 

Isnt the Werehog in itself a deviation? And Unleashed had its fair share of really gimmickly levels (like that race track level in Mazuri)? As for Gens, see next paragraph.

 

Colors has one basic level and then 4-5 gimmick acts, Lost World has style that's all over the damn place. Mazes, auto-running, etc. etc. Its a hodgepodge of so many different styles in an attempt at "variety" but it just kinda loses itself.

 

Okay, now I question if you played Colors recently, because 4-5 gimmick acts is isnt true. While SLW would have a main 3D stage and a bunch of different acts per level, Colors was guaranteed to have 2-4 actual levels per area and the rest be regulated to "gimmick" levels, the ratio being not nearly extreme as you say it is.

 

And again, Gens did the same exact thing with all those "gimmicky" challenge missions, and if I recall, playing some of them WAS required to complete the game.

[JezMM]

I had no problem with Unleashed's gimmick acts because they basically made them intensive exams for mastery of a part of regular gameplay - homing attacks, drifting, grinding, freefalling, (even QTEs though that was a surprisingly inoffensive stage despite not having much to it) etc etc.  Also none of them forced you to go slowly.

 

Lost World's gimmick acts literally have the gameplay completely change and then that gameplay is never seen again.  They are of course, also non-optional.

 

 

Colours was sort of inbetween these two extremes, and I honestly didn't have too much of a problem with Colours gimmick acts at all.  In fact my only beef with that game's level design is the huge amount of 2D sections.  I can tolerate the fact that they wanted to make it easier than Unleashed - it's not to my taste but it's a valid design decision.  I only dislike that the 3D sections weren't even easy, they were braindeadly simple and felt there just to connect up the 2D sections most of the time.

[Kuzu]

Most of Unleashed's acts outside of main ones had dumb gimmicks to them. Often far dumber than Colors's gimmicks. I don't know what game you were playing.

Except they're optional and not a main part of the game to complete :V

 

Also, within Colors, the gimmicky acts don't actually deviate much from the main ones aside from being short. Even then there's usually two or three longer acts per world. Colors may be a smaller experience, yeah, but I don't know what you were expecting considering it was on the Wii while Unleashed was on vastly more powerful machines. I also believe watered down is the wrong term to use considering it's reception sort of proves otherwise. Maybe "Tweaked"?

 

For game that is continuously touted as "the better Unleashed" I was kind of expecting...ya know, a better Unleashed, but it doesn't really improve on anything Unleashed does and rather just takes away all of the "bad" parts, adds in some blocky platforming, more 2D, and call it a day.

 

 

In the main levels you are most certainly not confined to a set path, levels like Sweet Mountain, Planet Wisps and ESPECIALLY Aquarium Park feature a rather large expanse of paths with a multitude of ways you can go about beating a stage.

Paths that don't last very long to begin with. I'm not saying Unleashed is any better in this regard mind you because they both suck with giving the player a lot of freedom to do things most of the time.

 

And "15 second distraction" is somewhat of an exaggeration, the Rocket, Hover, Spike and Drill wisps accessed entirely different parts of the level that you could not reach by normal means add that to all the collectables you find in said areas and I believe they justify being there as it adds more to the game.

And what is there worth collecting beside the Red Rings? The only reward they give you are more stages, which is fine I guess, but in Unleashed and Generations you can get artwork, music, cutscenes, etc. etc. That seems far more worth collecting than just more stages.

 

 

 

Isnt the Werehog in itself a deviation? And Unleashed had its fair share of really gimmickly levels (like that race track level in Mazuri)? As for Gens, see next paragraph.

 

The werehog is a main part of the game just like the Daytime stages, all of the advertisement surrounding Unleashed was telling you "YOU WILL PLAY AS THE WEREHOG" so there really isn't much deviation from that at all.

 

 

 

Okay, now I question if you played Colors recently, because 4-5 gimmick acts is isnt true. While SLW would have a main 3D stage and a bunch of different acts per level, Colors was guaranteed to have 2-4 actual levels per area and the rest be regulated to "gimmick" levels, the ratio being not nearly extreme as you say it is.

Even so, most of those levels don't last very long(Some under 2 minutes) or are blatant retreads of an earlier level. If you're going to add more levels required to get through a zone, I don't think its too much to ask for levels that actually test the skills of the player instead of just doing an arbitrary task unrelated to the main game.

And again, Gens did the same exact thing with all those "gimmicky" challenge missions, and if I recall, playing some of them WAS required to complete the game.

And I hated it there too, so what's your point? I never recall saying Unleashed or Generations are "perfect" because I think both are still very flawed games, that's what you're implying. I stated that I merely prefer their style to the likes of Colors or Lost World because I feel its more in line with what my preferences towards the series are.

Like what are we even arguing at this point? That I like those games more than what you like?

[Nepenthe]

The idea that Unleashed Team was "held back" (and I use that term extremely loosely) by the Colors team and therefore made lesser quality/exciting games is outright nonsensical when you consider that Colors reportedly started out as Generations Wii (and therefore probably based on it's foundation, the foundation of a game made by the "Unleashed Team") anyway and also due to the fact that im sure the main branch of S Team don't let the B-Team developer squad dictate the direction the gameplay goes in. So, I don't really buy that a hypothetical "Unleashed 2" was ever a thought that crossed their minds.

 

I'm not sure what you mean. Regardless of what Colors even started out as, it ultimately ended up as the product we know of today, which in turn was critically more successful and subsequently dictated the aesthetic, storytelling, and gameplay direction of the two games that came after. And of course neither team probably dictates what the games will be like so much as Iizuka and any other producers do, and frankly their job is to ensure games that will sell and/or be decent. If Colors did a better job in that regard than Unleashed, it doesn't matter what the Unleashed team wants to do, nevermind whether or not said wishes may have been "Unleashed 2." They're there to make the producers, other higher-ups, and ultimately the public happy, which is why we have the games that we have now and why I'm bitter.

[Wraith]

Except they're optional and not a main part of the game to complete :V

 

 

Valid, but since Medal Collecting IS a mandatory part of the game you're left with the option of replaying levels over again or taking a shot in the dark with the side acts and hoping you don't get a shitty one.

[Kuzu]

Valid, but since Medal Collecting IS a mandatory part of the game you're left with the option of replaying levels over again or taking a shot in the dark with the side acts and hoping you don't get a shitty one.

My point still stands that they're optional and therefore, can be ignored if you so choose.

[Soniman]

For game that is continuously touted as "the better Unleashed" I was kind of expecting...ya know, a better Unleashed, but it doesn't really improve on anything Unleashed does and rather just takes away all of the "bad" parts, adds in some blocky platforming, more 2D, and call it a day.

 

Isnt taking away what was bad about a game in and of itself improving it, even if you're ignoring all the other stuff they did??? Anyway ill get off the Colors gameplay subject because it will just devlove into an opinion battle so forget it.

 

And I hated it there too, so what's your point? I never recall saying Unleashed or Generations are "perfect" because I think both are still very flawed games, that's what you're implying. I stated that I merely prefer their style to the likes of Colors or Lost World because I feel its more in line with what my preferences towards the series are.

 

No, fucking stop that. All im saying is that the reasons you criticized the "Colors Team" for doing are things that you dont like in Sonic games that the Unleashed Team is ALSO guilty of doing. So the crux of my argument is that the issues you have with the series are not completely segregated to one single development team.

Like what are we even arguing at this point? That I like those games more than what you like?

 

If you completely ignored the main point of the argument in the first place, sure.

[T-Min]

You know, it sure is a good thing that we've decided that Colors and Generations were retroactively mediocre games. Now we can say Sonic Team are just crappy developers that never know what they're doing and are slowly killing the franchise.

 

/bitter

 

I really think the inconsistency of Lost World is being pretty overstated. There are a handful of levels where the gameplay changes completely, yes, but for the most part it's just gimmicks that work with the same gameplay the game establishes from the beginning. It's really no more inconsistent than the average 3-D Mario game (lolmario).

[JezMM]

Valid, but since Medal Collecting IS a mandatory part of the game you're left with the option of replaying levels over again or taking a shot in the dark with the side acts and hoping you don't get a shitty one.

 

I know this is something you'd have to discover BY playing them but really the side acts are probably the least effective way to gather extra medals.  They only have like 3 each.

 

 

You know, it sure is a good thing that we've decided that Colors and Generations were retroactively mediocre games. Now we can say Sonic Team are just crappy developers that never know what they're doing and are slowly killing the franchise.

 

/bitter

 

I really think the inconsistency of Lost World is being pretty overstated. There are a handful of levels where the gameplay changes completely, yes, but for the most part it's just gimmicks that work with the same gameplay the game establishes from the beginning. It's really no more inconsistent than the average 3-D Mario game (lolmario).

 

I think the issue is that these massive deviations aren't fun to most people, so they stick in your head and only serve to solidify the game's identity crisis when people think back on "those sections that took me ages and had nothing to do with the main gameplay".

 

 

Mario has smaller levels than Sonic too, so when he does deviate from the main gameplay (which he tends to do a lot better than Sonic - I'm pretty sure the only people who hated the gimmick stages on Galaxy were due to forced motion controls rather than the gameplay itself) it's a much smaller percentage of game than Sonic.  You can completely ignore the one 2 minute Manta Ray surfing course in Galaxy if you want to, but you can't ignore the 5 minute long snowball zone on Lost World.  Etc.

[VGamer]

How exactly are they more consistent? The only two games they made (Unleashed and Gens) are vastly different in many ways, with only the modern gameplay being generally the same. Colors and Generations are not two wildly different products with design phloshphies on opposite ends of the spectrum, all three titles are cut from the same cloth and Colors didnt really do anything that's wildly different from is predecessor or successor.

 

How are they vastly different? They both operate on the exact same mentality of boost-gameplay, but Generations made it better. I fail to see at ALL how Colors is more like Generations than Unleashed is, gameplay-wise. If the Unleashed team did make Generations (I'm assuming they did since most of you probably know more than me about this), I see THAT as a big improvement. Colors --> Lost World though? I see that as a degrade in quality personally.

 

Also, I've seen some talk about this but I won't go ahead and quote every single person who's said this so far: The "gimmicks" in Unleashed, or at least Generations, were good, while Lost World's weren't. Sure Unleashed had homing-attack levels, and rail-grinding levels, and levels where you would go in laps, and sure Gens had the missions, but those were still fun to play. Whether they focused on the main gameplay (boosting) or not, they were still enjoyable (for the most part).

With Lost World, riding the Tornado felt stiff and as if I was fighting against it. The snowball was really slow, the pinball table (second one) was too long for a casual game of pinball, etc. The gimmicks are fine, as long as they work.

 

You can completely ignore the one 2 minute Manta Ray surfing course in Galaxy if you want to, but you can't ignore the 5 minute long snowball zone on Lost World.  Etc.

 

Oh, and also this.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Well, think about it this way, the colors team are considered the weaker one, imagine what the Generations one could do with parkour

[MegasonicZX]

Eh, after playing through the wii u version myself the gimmick act thing does seem very overblown (along with the difficulty) really the only thing I didn't like was that bonus slot machine in frozen factory act 3 and the snowball level didn't even take long and the controls for it control like your typical ball though I will say that it does make you question why your doing it.

 

Also, who said the parkour was slow? Its actually pretty fast and keeps a good flow going when going off of walls, seriously guys I know its not the boost but come on.

[Dizcrybe]

Late, but, has everyone really had that much trouble with Rocket? i've only ever misaimed with it, like, twice. It's not that hard to use.

 

Asteroid, however...

[Blue Blood]

I haven't ever had much trouble with rocket. The biggest problem I've had with it is not activating it in the right spot.

 

Eagle, however...

 

All the Wisps, except Drill on land, really suck. Laser and Hover are perfectly, but they're never fun.

[Dizcrybe]

Eagle is pretty bad, too, but at least it's somewhat controllable. Asteroid just... doesn't work.

 

Slightly unrelated, how is it Omochao was in SA2 and Gens, telling us everything we already knew, yet the one time we NEED him, all he does is give you pointless missions? What the hell is Sonic Team thinking with these decisions?

[MegasonicZX]

Eagle is pretty bad, too, but at least it's somewhat controllable. Asteroid just... doesn't work.

 

Slightly unrelated, how is it Omochao was in SA2 and Gens, telling us everything we already knew, yet the one time we NEED him, all he does is give you pointless missions? What the hell is Sonic Team thinking with these decisions?

Its funny how he also gives you some of the missions when you've probably already got through the stage where you could do them or you just already did it.

 

Also, I actually got eagle to work perfectly, he is pretty easy to control and I actually found it to be my favorite wisp.

[JezMM]

Eagle has no fun gameplay to call its own.  Its literally there to skip over parkour segments.  You... fly around a little and collect some rings.  It reminds me of a slower/less engaging version of the magic carpet ride in Night Palace from Secret Rings.

 

I'm actually surprised they didn't put an Eagle section in Lava Mountain, confusingly bringing back Hover instead.

 

 

 

My problem with Rocket is not that it's uncontrollable, but it moves around so heavily and stiffly.  Whenever I have to use it on TC2/4 I just groan because it takes momentum destroying Wisp play up to 11.

[TheOcelot]

On 3 December SEGA posted some screenshots of Lava Mountain on their blog for some reason.

 

 

I guess they make nice wallpapers.

 

I do kind of wish Lava Mountain had more interesting level design. Act 3 was okay, but Act 1 being just a boss act was disappointing, and Act 2 visually had nothing to do with lava or mountains.

[Blue Blood]

It's funny how the screenshots make it look so much better than it really is. In the sense of level design, camera angles (the camera in this game is so boring) and mostly the graphics.

[Speederino]

I've been thinking, if they're gonna keep the charged homing attack then I'd like to see it tweaked a little. I've only played the 3DS version but all too often in there I found myself careening towards some off-screen enemy in a direction I didn't want to go in. So how about mapping the charge-up ability to a button? Like the homing attack works as it always has by default, but if you hold in a trigger THEN all the lock-on reticules appear? It would give us more control over which enemies we're attacking and lessen the issues I was having.

 

Just a random thought.

[MegasonicZX]

I've been thinking, if they're gonna keep the charged homing attack then I'd like to see it tweaked a little. I've only played the 3DS version but all too often in there I found myself careening towards some off-screen enemy in a direction I didn't want to go in. So how about mapping the charge-up ability to a button? Like the homing attack works as it always has by default, but if you hold in a trigger THEN all the lock-on reticules appear? It would give us more control over which enemies we're attacking and lessen the issues I was having.

 

Just a random thought.

As someone whose played both versions, it works eons better on the wii u version since not only does the lock on charge faster but the game never really sends you going after an enemy you past up already and if it does at least it never messes you up anyway, also the double jump can be done without accidently doing the homing attack so its a whole lot more comfortable.

[JezMM]

I do kind of wish Lava Mountain had more interesting level design. Act 3 was okay, but Act 1 being just a boss act was disappointing, and Act 2 visually had nothing to do with lava or mountains.

 

Unlike the first grinding act, you can see underwater volcanos in the background.  I thought it was surprising and a really cool touch to have the sombre trope crop up again in the grand finale - it's a shame the "Solitude" cut-scene comes up after rather than before the level.

 

Of course the level design is pants and way too unfairly trial and error, but I appreciated the trope and music getting a reprise.

 

 

Lava Mountain 3 really reminds me of Sonic Colours actually.  Bland 3D level design, all of the meat being in the 2D sections.  It's overall a boring final level though, but that's due to all sorts of reasons, both design and aesthetics.

[Dizcrybe]

Oh, I should ask, did anyone else have this problem on the Wii U version's final boss where when you tried to homing attack the Eggman bot's arm you got stuck on his wristband thing? That happened to me like 5 or so times and it pissed me off.

 

lrn2finalboss, Sonic Team