Sonic character's Hidden Depths

[Vertekins]

Sorry for the late quote dissection, but I've never seen the above as him throwing a tantrum. He's just shaking his head/body like any cartoon character might after a comedic fall to the ground. I'm also not sure why you've listed SA2 as a game where Sonic felt unperturbed. It's likely the best example of the lot, as he lost his cool in their first meeting and again on Prison Island. Not that I think this moment is enough to dispel the notion that he is too perfect, when looking at his career as a whole, but it's something worth noting when addressing his short temper.

 

I personally always perceived it as a tantrum because the next line he says gets across anger and dislike.

 

Another good example of Sonic's temper showing is in NOTW when Baker taunts him in the photos after sending him flying with a roundhouse kick. Werehog form did perceptibly result in Sonic gaining an even worse temper and the tantrum he throws was a weakness because it skewered his judgement enough for Baker to tackle him with enough force to send him into the opposite wall and knock him out.

[Amomynous]

He's also not all that willing to admit when something is difficult for him as indicated by Team Sonic's ending in Heroes in which Knuckles goads him into admitting that this time Eggman came close and that if it wasn't for him and Tails assisting him, he "Wouldn't have stood a chance". Whilst Sonic admits this to a degree ("Hmmm, well Maybe you're right Knuckles"), it's still only a "maybe" and he's still quite obstinate.

Knuckle's reaction showed he expected an argument from Sonic, as well.

Knuckles also tried to get Sonic to admit he was scared, and it's (deliberately?) ambiguous whether Sonic accepts the accusation or not

Edited January 21, 2013 by Mysterics

[Tani Coyote]

I think it's nice when Sonic loses his cool from time to time. He doesn't have to turn into a swirly eyed destructive demigod, but it's nice that even his heroic facade sometimes gives way to Wrath. His anger at Erazor and Merlina is most notable. A shame they won't show this side in the main games. "Not cool!" does not compare to "No, and I don't want to!" in the slightest.

 

Really they should victimise Tails more I think. It shows how much Sonic cares about him when his darker emotions can come out for him.

 

Provided he's able to keep himself from going over the edge, he remains distinct from the more antiheroic Shadow. (Not getting into how Shadow's antihero credentials have decayed a wee bit; he just seems like a more levelheaded, less cheery Sonic at this point)

 

As for his negative traits. That he can't swim is a hilarious physical drawback. For his negative personality traits, his ability to flip when outright murder or selfishness are in play are nice contrasts to the calm, cool hero. His disdain for machinery and complexities also is good, showing he is a bit narrowminded and ignorant.

 

Really I think a lot of it boils down to the continuity. It's much harder to show off all these traits in the limited time span of a game versus all the time in a comic book or cartoon. It's no wonder the cartoons/comics usually have a deeper Sonic than the games. Never mind the crapstorm that results from trying to make him too deep in the main titles.

 

 

What I really like about Sonic is that he's a character who already has his personal ideals and philosphy laid out from the beginning. He knows who he is, and he enjoys what he does. It's honestly refreshing after so many tedious anti-heroes and self-doubting protagonists. Does that mean he's flawless? Hell no. He makes mistakes all the time. In Sonic Adventure he, like the rest of the cast, completely missed the point of Tikal's visions and went after Eggman when he should've focused on Chaos instead. In Sonic & the Secret Rings his trusting nature let him be completely fooled by Shahra's treachery. Sonic may not be as gullible as Knuckles, but he's naive enough that he fell for Merlina's betrayal as well. And in Sonic Colors, Sonic would've completely failed to save the world if not for a total fluke, since he never figured out about Eggman's planetary mind control laser. For all his empathy and insight, Sonic is book-dumb, leaps before he thinks, and is easy to fool by a calculating villain.

 

Interesting points; I never thought of how Eggman was actually thwarted by Orbot and Cubot's laziness more than anything else in Colors. Sometimes you find help from the weirdest places...

[Emmett L. Brown]

I've always thought that Blaze the Cat (the one who wasn't in Sonic 06) has had one of the better character developments since her first appearance. She learned a lesson in the first game and in the second game the lesson stuck without compromising her personality.

 

But one thing about her bugged me. The fear of heights. It's mentioned exactly once in either Rush game and at no point prevents her from battling robots on narrow ledges above bottomless pits, or riding rails hundreds of feet in the air. It just feels like a quirk added for a gag.

[Kuzu]

I've always thought that Blaze the Cat (the one who wasn't in Sonic 06) has had one of the better character developments since her first appearance. She learned a lesson in the first game and in the second game the lesson stuck without compromising her personality.

 

But one thing about her bugged me. The fear of heights. It's mentioned exactly once in either Rush game and at no point prevents her from battling robots on narrow ledges above bottomless pits, or riding rails hundreds of feet in the air. It just feels like a quirk added for a gag.

 

Gamplay-Story segregation bro.

[Salamander]

I wondered for a second there if Blaze's fear of heights was her equivalent of Sonic's inability to swim.  Then I remembered: She's a cat... who's on fire.  She has no business not being afraid of water either.  Come to think of it, a cat being afraid of heights is pretty unconventional either.  Whether cats always land on their feet in reality is, to put it mildly, debateable, but the Sonic series doesn't even have fall damage.

[batson]

Regarding Sonic as a character, I'll just say what i always say: as far as i'm concerned, Sonic is indeed an example of an "incoruptably pure" shonen hero. To about 70%.

 

The additional 30% of Sonic is made up of the typical "radical cool dude with attitude"-type character that was oh so popular here in the west in the 1990's.

 

And as far as Im concerned, the combination of these two extremely different character stereotypes actually does make Sonic at least a somewhat original character. A sort of "if Son Goku and Bart Simpson had a baby who was a blue hedgehog" (and i feel bad for whichever of them had to give birth to it...)

Edited February 5, 2013 by batson

[Kuzu]

Ya know, Despite Sonic being fairly two-dimensional as a character, that doesn't mean he isn't endearing and loving; I can understand the crowd that wants more depth to him beyond "Go fast, beat badguys, snark" but I don't particularly see why it's necessary. I've been interested in the conflict as far as story goes before, and there was no need to "develop" Sonic's character back then.

[Semi-colon e]

The Rush games contrasted Sonic and Blaze nicely. At first Sonic seems like the red oni, the hyperactive, impulsive, fun-loving one, while Blaze is the blue oni, the quiet, formal, blunt one. Then you get to Dead Line where they fight, and the roles reverse, with Sonic being a fairly calm blue oni, trying to diffuse the situation, and Blaze being the fiery, absurdly hot-tempered red oni, getting increasingly pissed off and frustrated with the whole thing.

 

Rush Adventure does this a little bit again, except it's not as strong because firstly it's just a small part before the final boss (Where Nega taunts Blaze about her kingdom being levelled with a small amount of the Power of the Stars), but secondly because Blaze has developed to the point where she listens to Sonic and isn't as much of a natural loner, even if she is still formal and quiet.

 

Then you've got the two Eggman. They act mostly the same in both games, but their whole dynamic is the main Eggman is as he always has been, all jovial and bumbling, yet competent, while Nega is the more formal and eeriely polite one. The trick here is that Eggman takes his losses better than Nega does, Eggman generally just gets out of there as he always has done, but Nega is so psychotic that he's willing to try and destroy himself, Eggman, and everything else in an omnicidal streak, that Eggman lacks. While both are mad, and Nega seems like the more competent one, Eggman is most likely the one to know when to fold 'em, which allows him to come back another day. When shit really goes down, Eggman is more likely to not do something catastrophic and therefore bounce back.

 

Luckily, things transpired that caused Nega's last ditch insanity efforts to fail.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Semi-colon e

[Kuzu]

That's what I like about Sonic & Blaze's dynamic, they both subvert the "Red Oni, Blue Oni" archetype as well as play it straight. Most of the time, it's clear cut who Red Oni is or Blue oni so it's nice to see it played with.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Gamplay-Story segregation bro.

Well, it doesn't make sense within the story either, since in-story she travels to vertigo-inducing locations without problem.

[Kuzu]

Well, it doesn't make sense within the story either, since in-story she travels to vertigo-inducing locations without problem.

 

 

Well she was visibly distressed when they got to Sky Babylon...even if it was for a gag.

[Vertekins]

I said in the OP that I would also elaborate on Unleashed and Colours. Admittedly that completely slipped my mind due to being sidetracked by other things in RL. So without further ado...

 

Sonic Unleashed

 

When faced with Chip's dilemma over his memory loss, you initially get the impression that the main reason for Sonic offering to help the little guy get his memory back is out of guilt that it was likely him falling on top of him was the cause of the issue in the first place. Indeed, even the game's instruction manual states this;

 

 

Much later when Chip finally gains his memory and learns of his purpose, he reasons that Sonic no longer as any 'obligation' to tag along with him because he's already accomplished the thing that was his reason to allow Chip to tag along in the first place. He also states that putting the world back together is his responsibility as Light Gaia and one he seems to feel is his responsibility to accomplish alone.

 

Sonic is having none of that and states that he doesn't even need a reason to help out a friend. This speaks droves of his innate sense of loyalty and kindness. He was not prepared to just allow Chip to fly away and shoulder such a huge responsibility by himself. Yet again, just like Sonic telling the Knights in SatBK that they have a responsibility to protect Camelot's citizens is a clever nod to SRA in which he reasons to Blaze that keeping a level head is imperative to her carrying out her duty as princess, this Unleashed example is a clever nod to the first Sonic Rush (Elaboration in the OP of this topic) in which he tells Blaze how tough it is to bear a burden on your shoulders without anyone else to help you out.

 

Sonic Colours

 

In this game, Sonic appears to acknowledge how opportunistic and devious Eggman really is and as a result, his defensiveness of Tails makes a pretty prominent appearance. He was fairly frantic when Eggman managed to put the kid under mind control and was torn over the prospect of being forced to fight him;

 

 

Also note how willing he was to attack Eggman within seconds of Tails being struck. One must wonder what he would've done had Tails not gotten in the way. He was at least pretty angry-sounding when he demanded Eggman to tell him what he had done to him which strongly suggests that he would've really laid into him physically given the chance.

 

Sonic is also very visibly protective of Tails when the Egg Nega Wisp makes an appearance;

 

 

Notw that this is the first thing Sonic does when Eggman shows himself and the arm he holds out in front of Tails in a defensive gesture never even moves even as he gestures with the other arm. Sonic's main priority throughout this entire cutscene is Tails' safety and he only states after Tails has been sent to safety that taking out Eggman is the only thing he has left to do. He clearly didn't want to put Tails under any risks at all during the fight.

[Alluusio]

 

Also note how willing he was to attack Eggman within seconds of Tails being struck. One must wonder what he would've done had Tails not gotten in the way. He was at least pretty angry-sounding when he demanded Eggman to tell him what he had done to him which strongly suggests that he would've really laid into him physically given the chance.

 

Not to mention how he was more concerned about Tails' well being than Eggman getting away after Eggman's mind control weapon ran out of energy and Tails collapsed. But it was kind of interesting to see Sonic that pissed off when Tails got hit by Eggman's beam. In the Japanese dub he sounds even angrier, though I find that to be pretty typical in Sonic games in general. He may have even been angry at himself rather than Eggman for letting his guard down. After all, he is silently cursing to himself before jumping into action.

 

[Sega DogTagz]

But one thing about her bugged me. The fear of heights. It's mentioned exactly once in either Rush game and at no point prevents her from battling robots on narrow ledges above bottomless pits, or riding rails hundreds of feet in the air. It just feels like a quirk added for a gag.

 

Does it really matter? Sonic's issues with water is often brought up eight ways till Sunday, but that never stops him from hydroplaning across oceans or ducking into submerged city's.

 

Its just a little tidbit to humanize them a bit is all. Blaze may be a tad flustered with heights, but like Sonic she's not about to let her insecurities get in the way of accomplishing her goals.

[KingdomOfGod]

One flaw of sonic's character that I feel rounds him out is his ostentatious self-absorption. Although it has always been there Sonic Colors (and to a lesser extent Generations) explored it more-so than any other release. The scene after sonic defeats Planet Wisps' boss and he smugly  fancys himself to a inanimate scrapped robot suggests that Sonic is (dare I say) narcissistic. 

 

I have always interpreted Tails as being the most pure-hearted (main?) character in the series, more-so even than Sonic. For me Sonic needs Tails just as much as Tails needs him. Tails stops Sonic from sinking further into self-absorption by being a person outside of Sonic's self that he is deeply concerned about.

[Diogenes]

One flaw of sonic's character that I feel rounds him out is his ostentatious self-absorption. Although it has always been there

When?

[Vertekins]

One flaw of sonic's character that I feel rounds him out is his ostentatious self-absorption. Although it has always been there Sonic Colors (and to a lesser extent Generations) explored it more-so than any other release. The scene after sonic defeats Planet Wisps' boss and he smugly  fancys himself to a inanimate scrapped robot suggests that Sonic is (dare I say) narcissistic. 

 

I have always interpreted Tails as being the most pure-hearted (main?) character in the series, more-so even than Sonic. For me Sonic needs Tails just as much as Tails needs him. Tails stops Sonic from sinking further into self-absorption by being a person outside of Sonic's self that he is deeply concerned about.

 

I agree with this to an extent.

 

Tails is the one that brings Sonic back to earth and serves as an interesting foil in that regard. It's one of the many reasons as to why

their dynamic in Colours is so damn good. It's also a testament to Tails' character development in that he is so used to Sonic's typical antics that he's not as impressed with them anymore.

 

Just look at some of his idle animations as well aside from the arrogant boasts to the dead robots! He spends time dusting himself off and looking at his shoe from multiple angles to see if it's spik and span and in all the times you see him, he doesn't so much as have a single spine out of place. Heh, he even takes time to shower himself in Casinopolis after the run through the dumpy, smelly dilapidated way. He also takes tremendous pride in his speed.

[Unknownlight]

Paraphrased:

Merlina: Do you understand what you're saying? If you kill King Arthur you'll be forever remembered as the most evil of knights, and a slayer of kings! Sonic: *cheerful and unfazed* Guess I can't be the hero every time!

In my opinion, I'd say that the entirety of Sonic's character depth is pretty much expressed in that one exchange. ... ...Actually, considering that I can't seem to think of a single other character (off the top of my head, at least) that would act and react the way Sonic did in that scene, I think I accidentally just showed as having more depth than I intended to. O_o

[KingdomOfGod]

@diogenes

Here are a few off the dome:

 

He has smugly self-entitled himself as 'the worlds fastest hedgehog', he openly professes how cool he thinks himself:"The planet as cool and blue as me" (SA2)! 

 

He cockily expects Chip to agree that he is pleasant on the eyes. At the end of Sonic Heroes (and colors) Sonic has to be persuaded to offer praise for the assistance of his comrades. 

 

Im sure there are more.

 

Heck, since the classics Sonic can properly be said to be overweening:

(1.)Adorning a self-satisfied smile:  

(2.) wagging his flippant finger

(3.) sarcastically mocking the player while in idle animation

(4.) insultingly Impatient

 

Oh, and see Vertekins post as well.

  Edited February 8, 2013 by KingdomOfGod

[Sega DogTagz]

Paraphrased: In my opinion, I'd say that the entirety of Sonic's character depth is pretty much expressed in that one exchange. ... ...Actually, considering that I can't seem to think of a single other character (off the top of my head, at least) that would act and react the way Sonic did in that scene, I think I accidentally just showed as having more depth than I intended to. O_o

 

I like that right there. That's a little bit of a mold breaker as far as Sonic's personality goes.

 

For all the times people hang the "generic hero" tittle on Sonic, I just cant put it on myself to shoe-horn him into such a category. Sure he's got all those heart-of-gold perks, but at the same time the dude just has a knack for separating himself from those around him via his actions. Black Knight was full of that kind of behavior. As were a few other games such as Rush and Secret Rings.

 

I'm personally curious to see how much Sonic is motivated by his core herosim vs. his flat out overly dominant ego. Deep down we know he's a good guy, but you can make the argument that Sonic does what he does in part for the sick kicks or simply just to elevate himself above his peers.

 

Sonic has become a character that can play the good guy for all the right and all the wrong reasons. It depends on the day of the week for this guy. That's how flexible he is nowadays.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Sega DogTagz

[Kuzu]

I'll admit pegging Sonic as a "generic hero" is a bit of  distaste, because as pointed out he's a lot more than that, but he's still pretty two dimensional regardless. Most of the characters, despite the character derailment and flanderiztion that happened later, were still pretty fleshed out over the years; Tails manages to accomplish things without Sonic's help, Amy becomes more independent, and of course Shadow. All of these characters have gotten massive amounts of fleshing, Sonic more or less stays the same in every game.

 

What I find interesting tho is despite that, everyone else's character bounces off Sonic so much that their character development is mostly because of his influence. 

[Sega DogTagz]

What I find interesting tho is despite that, everyone else's character bounces off Sonic so much that their character development is mostly because of his influence. 

 

I've made a similar augment about that in the past. Something along the lines of "shallow characters can't have that kind of impact on their supporting cast".

 

Its pretty clear that every character around sonic is significantly impacted by who he is and what he does. Not just on a plot level, but on a personal characterization level too. Sonic's depths extends to the people around him. He beats his ideology into others in a series that has time and time again devoted itself to the opposite effect of that mantra.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'll admit pegging Sonic as a "generic hero" is a bit of  distaste, because as pointed out he's a lot more than that, but he's still pretty two dimensional regardless. 

Er...and what are those dimensions?

[Kuzu]

I've made a similar augment about that in the past. Something along the lines of "shallow characters can't have that kind of impact on their supporting cast".

 

Its pretty clear that every character around sonic is significantly impacted by who he is and what he does. Not just on a plot level, but on a personal characterization level too. Sonic's depths extends to the people around him. He beats his ideology into others in a series that has time and time again devoted itself to the opposite effect of that mantra.

 

That's the thing tho, it's one thing for Sonic's influence to effect others in a meaningful way, and it's another for Sonic himself to have the same type of growth, which he really hasn't. I can't really recall an instance in the series when Sonic's character was subjected to the amount of development and fleshing as some of the other characters.

 

Note, I'm not saying he's a Bad character because of it, just a character that isn't really fleshed out compared to his peers, but balanced out by the aforementioned influence he has over them.

 

Er...and what are those dimensions?

 

Cocky Hero with a heart of gold is basically the core of Sonic's character, and it hasn't really changed much since the series started fleshing out it's characters. He's always the selfless hero who never doubts himself or gives up the fight, and that's about it. Not saying that to demean him, it's just something I noticed.