Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Jet Prower]

Unpopular ?

 

 

I like Princess Sally as a character and while her design most likely was.... inte....resting..... 

 

 

She's a bold, intelligent though her emotions can get the best of her, tomboyish Princess. Which is a fresh change from the rather feminine Princess we usually get in media.

 

So yeah, I don't hate her as I've seen most people have online. 

 

Not all people hate Sally. I do see people out there that like her. Alot of people I sometimes think are just jumping on a hate train at times. Many people haven't read the archie comics to know much about her, and some that have seen her in satam, often dont mind her there. I know lots of people prefer Amy over her, but I do think some people just hate on her just to hate on her.

[Your Vest Friend]

The problem with Sally now is that we have a better tomboy princess in the games themselves.

[Your Vest Friend]

Unpopular: I'm one of those who really likes Mighty and Ray.

Ray's probably because I like cute characters, and Mighty is because either one of his personalities (SSA muscled show-off or KC manual pacifist) could be interesting to use. The former could even act as a what-if exploration of Knuckles having Tails as a little brother figure instead of Sonic.

[Zavok the SpinningSilver]

Unpopular: I'm one of those who really likes Mighty and Ray.

Ray's probably because I like cute characters, and Mighty is because either one of his personalities (SSA muscled show-off or KC manual pacifist) could be interesting to use. The former could even act as a what-if exploration of Knuckles having Tails as a little brother figure instead of Sonic.

 

Unpopular? I thought this was quite popular. Specifically with Mighty moreso that Ray, but still!

The problem with Sally now is that we have a better tomboy princess in the games themselves.

 

Maybe that's why I'd be closer to shipping Sonic with Blaze as opposed to Amy...

[Your Vest Friend]

On here it's an unpopular opinion, and not for unwarranted reasons either.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Unpopular? I thought this was quite popular. Specifically with Mighty moreso that Ray, but still!

 

Maybe that's why I'd be closer to shipping Sonic with Blaze as opposed to Amy...

actualy most of the forgotten characters have a decent fanbase, Though Nack has the biggest, Mighty follows up

[Tara]

The problem with Sally now is that we have a better tomboy princess in the games themselves.

I never saw Blaze as a "tomboy," personally.  Strong, yes.  More concerned with practical matters, yes.  But tomboy?  Not really.

[Mr Loopone]

Unpopular opinion: I actually rather enjoy Metropolis Zone in Sonic 2 even though many people do not. All 3 acts too. The level design has flow but with a bit of challenge in terms of jumping on the small spikey blocks. This stage has a working factory/machinery setting and it is rather fitting with the pistons, tubes and cog wheels. The spinning nut gimmick is a novel touch to get higher in to the stages (considering Tails can't fly up in this game). It seems the main problem with this stage is the badniks but they don't bother me at all, the exploding star can be avoided just by going down on the nut or run just right so it doesn't come to you and for the pincers it is just getting the timing down. Considering that I have rather poor timing in games and getting through this stage has no problems for me. Oh and I forgot, the music is catchy too.

 

Personally Hill Top Zone, Oil Ocean and the set piece Sky Chase Zone I have enjoyed less than Metropolis Zone. Still Chemical Plant and Casino Night are my favourite stages though.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Yawackhary

[Jet Prower]

I never saw Blaze as a "tomboy," personally.  Strong, yes.  More concerned with practical matters, yes.  But tomboy?  Not really.

 

Honestly, I always have seen her as a bit of a tomboy. She is a girl that doesnt look like she would really care about her appearance too much, and she wears long pants while she is out doing her thing. Not saying she wouldn't want to be clean and such, but she isn't going to go mad like maybe Amy would if her hair got messed up. As for her clothes, she is likely going for confort over fassion in my opinion. She needs comfortable clothes to do the things she needs to do running wise and I'm betting they are fire proof materials as well. She just seems more my style, compared to someone like Rouge who is the total opposite and the kind of girl I kind of detest.

[Spin Attaxx]

Honestly, I always have seen her as a bit of a tomboy. She is a girl that doesnt look like she would really care about her appearance too much, and she wears long pants while she is out doing her thing.

Pretty sure those are tights :U

 

On topic, I don't see the hate for Wacky Workbench. The bouncy floor isn't that bad, guys! Even the electric pylons aren't bad!

[Tara]

Honestly, I always have seen her as a bit of a tomboy. She is a girl that doesnt look like she would really care about her appearance too much, and she wears long pants while she is out doing her thing. Not saying she wouldn't want to be clean and such, but she isn't going to go mad like maybe Amy would if her hair got messed up. As for her clothes, she is likely going for confort over fassion in my opinion. She needs comfortable clothes to do the things she needs to do running wise and I'm betting they are fire proof materials as well. She just seems more my style, compared to someone like Rouge who is the total opposite and the kind of girl I kind of detest.

Not caring about personal aesthetics and being a tomboy are not inherently synonymous.  One might include the other, but there are many different types of femininity.  Just because she's not a fashionista doesn't mean she's not feminine.

[Jet Prower]

Not caring about personal aesthetics and being a tomboy are not inherently synonymous.  One might include the other, but there are many different types of femininity.  Just because she's not a fashionista doesn't mean she's not feminine.

 

But the thing is, aren't normally those things what qualify someone as a tomboy. Someone that doesn't really do the whole girly girly thing with the pretty dresses and seems to act in a way and do things that guys would more likely be doing than a girl? I know she may be a bit femine, I never denied that she isn't a little bit, but at the same time, she still does things that make more look more like a tomboy than a girly girl like Amy and Cream are.

[Tara]

But the thing is, aren't normally those things what qualify someone as a tomboy. Someone that doesn't really do the whole girly girly thing with the pretty dresses and seems to act in a way and do things that guys would more likely be doing than a girl? I know she may be a bit femine, I never denied that she isn't a little bit, but at the same time, she still does things that make more look more like a tomboy than a girly girl like Amy and Cream are.

If you ask me, that outfit of her's seems pretty extravagant, so I wouldn't say she has no interest in "pretty dresses" and stuff.

 

That aside, tomboy implies interest in more traditionally "boyish" activities.  As far as I'm aware, we barely know what she's interested in because she's always putting her own interests aside in favor of the safety of her kingdom.  I could easily picture her dressing up and stuff on the side, but not doing those aren't the same as being a tomboy.  Not that there's anything wrong with being a tomboy or that having traditionally boyish features makes one any less feminine, but I just never saw Blaze as fitting that description.

[Jet Prower]

If you ask me, that outfit of her's seems pretty extravagant, so I wouldn't say she has no interest in "pretty dresses" and stuff.

 

That aside, tomboy implies interest in more traditionally "boyish" activities.  As far as I'm aware, we barely know what she's interested in because she's always putting her own interests aside in favor of the safety of her kingdom.  I could easily picture her dressing up and stuff on the side, but not doing those aren't the same as being a tomboy.  Not that there's anything wrong with being a tomboy or that having traditionally boyish features makes one any less feminine, but I just never saw Blaze as fitting that description.

 

I doubt I could picture her dressing up on the side. She just seems like one of those girls that would get angry had having to dress up for something that isn't what she is most comfortable in. There isn't anything wrong with being a tomboy either. Honestly, I think it makes them slightly better to be honest. That's why I can't stand the super girly girls that think they are so much better than everyone else and that they are just the best gem in the world sort of things. That's why I dislike girls like rouge, or since your avatar is a pony, why I dislike rarity so much as well.

[Tara]

I doubt I could picture her dressing up on the side. She just seems like one of those girls that would get angry had having to dress up for something that isn't what she is most comfortable in. There isn't anything wrong with being a tomboy either. Honestly, I think it makes them slightly better to be honest. That's why I can't stand the super girly girls that think they are so much better than everyone else and that they are just the best gem in the world sort of things. That's why I dislike girls like rouge, or since your avatar is a pony, why I dislike rarity so much as well.

I'm going to abstain from getting into an argument about why you completely misinterpret that archetype of "girly girl," and why Rarity is not as you just described, since that would be straying far off topic.  My point is, I don't see her as a tomboy, but eh, I guess I can't judge accurately since we hardly see her into anything aside from protecting her kingdom.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Akito

[Zavok the SpinningSilver]

So. New opinion from me due to a comment from the Lost World Announced topic:

 

"Epic feel of the story, at least at the end. It was like "shit, time to get really serious"

 

this is literally what both Colors and Generations were! Colors Culimated in a 1 on 1 fight against Eggman in his newest Mech, after you found out he is setting a plot in motion that more or less causes Genocide of an entire Alien Race, followed by you trying to flee from a Black Hole

 

and Generations ended fighting a Giant Cosmic Horror controlled by BOTH Eggmen, who more or less can fuck up time as we know it. Really how does that not constitute under the definition of "Epic"?" Mr. NinjaShark, thanks for unintentionally reminding me of this point.

...

The Egg Dragoon is a much more satisfying boss than the Egg Nega Wisp and Time Eater hands down. 

 

Now pause. Surely you all must be thinking something along the lines of "Da fuq?! The not even final boss of Unleashed is better than the epicness that was Eggman's return to that title (ignoring the DS version mind you), or the ultimate showdown for time and space?" ...Yes.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love both of these bosses immensely. The music for both are pretty rad, especially in the case of E.N.W. They're both pretty fun (when they aren't frustrating to fight, right Time Eater?) and look stunning.

But being even more epic, thrilling or satisfying than Egg Beyblade First Series Main Bit Beast? I don't think so. Why is this?

None of them have the proper build up gameplay or story wise to make them as such. It's a shame really. Here, I'll break them down by game.

 

 

The main plot point was that this sick bastard intended to enslave an entire alien race, burn them into fuel, and then enslave the world using that fuel. How much focus does this story driving element get? I'll say maybe five or six cutscenes at best. The rest either focus on Eggman and his minions having some funny banter, or Sonic and Tails' translator problems and mostly unfunny jokes / one liners. A crucial character to this entire conflict even mysteriously dissapears for a considerable length of time! (That one get's explained a little at the end of Colours DS, but that's beside the point.) There's no real depth to this plot device, limiting it to the "Robotnik's kidnapping innocent creatures, stop him" scenario. It's missed potential for build up to the final encounter. Take the scene in Planet Wisp for example, when they discover its "Eggmanish" transformation. We see the Wisps clearly in panic at all that is happening. They're concerned for their friends, and their own lives. They see their kind being turned into mostly mindless monsters. And according to the official website and manuals, they each have their own distinctive personalities to them. Does the player feel sympathy for them? Or are they merely fun power ups that can be ignored if you don't wish to use them? Spoiler alert: at this point, they're the latter. (Again, it's touched upon in the DS version and improves the story a little by doing so, but my point still stands.)

 

As the player, I should feel furious that Eggman would do such a thing to such innocent and fun loving creatures. I don't care that it's his main offense in the classics, this is a fully fleshed out story, with the gimmick of alien worlds and outer space. Considering that this game is implied to continue on from Unleashed, it's a slap in the face! You go from blowing up the planet, to asking for forgiveness by building a wicked awesome theme park, only to find out it's just a ploy to enslave the planet instead at the expense of another race. If I were Sonic, I'd be downright pissed. But Sonic never truly gets pissed except for when Tails is mind controlled. At the end of the day, Eggman's just seen more of an annoyance that just plays with dangerous toys. You could argue that sending Tails away says that he takes Eggman seriously, but it's only believable in the vein that he's protecting his little brother from potential harm. Great premise, but it's missing the build up that it deserved.

 

EDIT: I will acknowledge the peril of trying to escape the black hole of left over Hyper Go On power though. That was pretty cool.

 

 

So this monster kidnaps all of Sonic's friends and wrecks the fabric of space / time. It nearly destroyed all of time. It made Sonic's friends suffer the feeling of floating in limbo without a body. Surely, this is a threat to behold. For the cherry on top, it's not really a eldritch abomination, but essentially a god like badnik controlled by BOTH the past and present Eggmen. The ultimate display of a plot Hijacked by Ganon - er, Eggman, right?

 

Or is it some random space flea from nowhere that's brought in for the sake of a time travelling story? The latter right? Again, this encounter is hurt by lack of build up. If you want to keep the Robotnik reveal secret, frequent appearances build up the Time Eater's image. Why can't he just randomly arrive in the middle of a level and start wrecking your shit? Oh wait. He does the exact opposite by helping the two Sonic's and Tails' move through the eras! He could summon other creatures or enemies from the timeline as more mini bosses, anything that shows off his power. In fact, Wily did it in the Worlds Collide crossover with the Robot Master army! It's missed opportunities like this that make a final boss, with two Supa Sayajino Hedgeuhoggu's against two Eggmen and the ultimate badnik, depressingly underwhelming.

 

So what does this have to do with the Egg Dragoon? EVERYTHING.

The build - up to this boss is prevalent throughout the game. You're seeing Eggman get crafty with his robot designs. You see him pull his plans together and attempting to throw wrenches in Sonic's way. He may be just throwing more mooks at him and having Orbot pilot his mechs, but it's something!

Sonic connects to these people. You can see their struggles and personalities. They act strange for people whose home was broken into Planetary Pieces, but they give the world a sort of structure. You can connect to them as the player and help them get through their problems. You want to give them the justice they deserve.

The journey to restore the planet takes you along to Eggman's capital city, the one that he promised ever since Adventure 1 and guarenteed at the start of this game: Eggmanland. You're knocking on and then down his front door, and finally get to take the S.O.B. down. On the topic of foreshadowing btw, pay close attention to the beautiful opening cutscene. Look at the mech Eggman uses to confront Sonic before Sonic goes Super. Now look at the Egg Dragoon.

 

It even helps with the real final boss, as Dark Gaia is the last loose end the doctor left to tie. That sort of makes Dark Gaia the more insignificant one in the grand scheme of things, but there was build up to that conflict too! Chip's entire story arc, coupled with the fact that many were under DG's influence, not to mention Sonic's lycanthropy, are all resolved here.

 

Say what you want about Colours and Generations being more fun, or that the soundtracks are better, or even if you think that the tone and style of the story is better. You could even say that the bosses may be more fun to fight too, after all it's a matter of opinion. But don't you dare come at me and say that Egg Nega Wisp or the Time Eater had a better build up or more satisfaction from the story. The stories of those games compared to Unleashed say otherwise.

 

...that took longer than expected.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Zavok

[Vertekins]

So. New opinion from me due to a comment from the Lost World Announced topic:

 

"Epic feel of the story, at least at the end. It was like "shit, time to get really serious"

 

this is literally what both Colors and Generations were! Colors Culimated in a 1 on 1 fight against Eggman in his newest Mech, after you found out he is setting a plot in motion that more or less causes Genocide of an entire Alien Race, followed by you trying to flee from a Black Hole

 

and Generations ended fighting a Giant Cosmic Horror controlled by BOTH Eggmen, who more or less can fuck up time as we know it. Really how does that not constitute under the definition of "Epic"?" Mr. NinjaShark, thanks for unintentionally reminding me of this point.

...

The Egg Dragoon is a much more satisfying boss than the Egg Nega Wisp and Time Eater hands down. 

 

Now pause. Surely you all must be thinking something along the lines of "Da fuq?! The not even final boss of Unleashed is better than the epicness that was Eggman's return to that title (ignoring the DS version mind you), or the ultimate showdown for time and space?" ...Yes.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love both of these bosses immensely. The music for both are pretty rad, especially in the case of E.N.W. They're both pretty fun (when they aren't frustrating to fight, right Time Eater?) and look stunning.

But being even more epic, thrilling or satisfying than Egg Beyblade First Series Main Bit Beast? I don't think so. Why is this?

None of them have the proper build up gameplay or story wise to make them as such. It's a shame really. Here, I'll break them down by game.

 

 

The main plot point was that this sick bastard intended to enslave an entire alien race, burn them into fuel, and then enslave the world using that fuel. How much focus does this story driving element get? I'll say maybe five or six cutscenes at best. The rest either focus on Eggman and his minions having some funny banter, or Sonic and Tails' translator problems and mostly unfunny jokes / one liners. A crucial character to this entire conflict even mysteriously dissapears for a considerable length of time! (That one get's explained a little at the end of Colours DS, but that's beside the point.) There's no real depth to this plot device, limiting it to the "Robotnik's kidnapping innocent creatures, stop him" scenario. It's missed potential for build up to the final encounter. Take the scene in Planet Wisp for example, when they discover its "Eggmanish" transformation. We see the Wisps clearly in panic at all that is happening. They're concerned for their friends, and their own lives. They see their kind being turned into mostly mindless monsters. And according to the official website and manuals, they each have their own distinctive personalities to them. Does the player feel sympathy for them? Or are they merely fun power ups that can be ignored if you don't wish to use them? Spoiler alert: at this point, they're the latter. (Again, it's touched upon in the DS version and improves the story a little by doing so, but my point still stands.)

 

As the player, I should feel furious that Eggman would do such a thing to such innocent and fun loving creatures. I don't care that it's his main offense in the classics, this is a fully fleshed out story, with the gimmick of alien worlds and outer space. Considering that this game is implied to continue on from Unleashed, it's a slap in the face! You go from blowing up the planet, to asking for forgiveness by building a wicked awesome theme park, only to find out it's just a ploy to enslave the planet instead at the expense of another race. If I were Sonic, I'd be downright pissed. But Sonic never truly gets pissed except for when Tails is mind controlled. At the end of the day, Eggman's just seen more of an annoyance that just plays with dangerous toys. You could argue that sending Tails away says that he takes Eggman seriously, but it's only believable in the vein that he's protecting his little brother from potential harm. Great premise, but it's missing the build up that it deserved.

 

EDIT: I will acknowledge the peril of trying to escape the black hole of left over Hyper Go On power though. That was pretty cool.

 

 

So this monster kidnaps all of Sonic's friends and wrecks the fabric of space / time. It nearly destroyed all of time. It made Sonic's friends suffer the feeling of floating in limbo without a body. Surely, this is a threat to behold. For the cherry on top, it's not really a eldritch abomination, but essentially a god like badnik controlled by BOTH the past and present Eggmen. The ultimate display of a plot Hijacked by Ganon - er, Eggman, right?

 

Or is it some random space flea from nowhere that's brought in for the sake of a time travelling story? The latter right? Again, this encounter is hurt by lack of build up. If you want to keep the Robotnik reveal secret, frequent appearances build up the Time Eater's image. Why can't he just randomly arrive in the middle of a level and start wrecking your shit? Oh wait. He does the exact opposite by helping the two Sonic's and Tails' move through the eras! He could summon other creatures or enemies from the timeline as more mini bosses, anything that shows off his power. In fact, Wily did it in the Worlds Collide crossover with the Robot Master army! It's missed opportunities like this that make a final boss, with two Supa Sayajino Hedgeuhoggu's against two Eggmen and the ultimate badnik, depressingly underwhelming.

 

So what does this have to do with the Egg Dragoon? EVERYTHING.

The build - up to this boss is prevalent throughout the game. You're seeing Eggman get crafty with his robot designs. You see him pull his plans together and attempting to throw wrenches in Sonic's way. He may be just throwing more mooks at him and having Orbot pilot his mechs, but it's something!

Sonic connects to these people. You can see their struggles and personalities. They act strange for people whose home was broken into Planetary Pieces, but they give the world a sort of structure. You can connect to them as the player and help them get through their problems. You want to give them the justice they deserve.

The journey to restore the planet takes you along to Eggman's capital city, the one that he promised ever since Adventure 1 and guarenteed at the start of this game: Eggmanland. You're knocking on and then down his front door, and finally get to take the S.O.B. down. On the topic of foreshadowing btw, pay close attention to the beautiful opening cutscene. Look at the mech Eggman uses to confront Sonic before Sonic goes Super. Now look at the Egg Dragoon.

 

It even helps with the real final boss, as Dark Gaia is the last loose end the doctor left to tie. That sort of makes Dark Gaia the more insignificant one in the grand scheme of things, but there was build up to that conflict too! Chip's entire story arc, coupled with the fact that many were under DG's influence, not to mention Sonic's lycanthropy, are all resolved here.

 

Say what you want about Colours and Generations being more fun, or that the soundtracks are better, or even if you think that the tone and style of the story is better. You could even say that the bosses may be more fun to fight too, after all it's a matter of opinion. But don't you dare come at me and say that Egg Nega Wisp or the Time Eater had a better build up or more satisfaction from the story. The stories of those games compared to Unleashed say otherwise.

 

...that took longer than expected.

 

 

What makes it all the more pitious?

 

The fact that it's degenerating Eggman from a competent mastermind who always got his hands dirty and who sought to directly get involved in his plans to amazing effect before they got messed-up into a much more ineffectual villain who is predominantly sitting on his arse behind the scenes and hardly getting involved in anything before his plans get messed up.

 

- It's certainly NOT doing the character justice.

- It's NOT making the plot's more tense from the 'behind the scenes' aspect and in Colours' case, doesn't make the Wisp conversion scene in any way good because they're extremely undeveloped characters, making caring about their plight difficult.

- It's NOT allowing Sonic to show the snarkier aspects of his character in any interesting way because that's taken-over by lame-ass mute robot 'interactions' and is non-existent in Generations.

 

It's such a shame. We've seen what Eggman is capable of especially in the likes of the Adventure series, near-constantly throwing curveballs at the characters in Sonic Adventure like stealing the Emeralds they find nd directly causing problems for Knuckles and Amy, breaking the Master Emerald and siccing ZERO on Amy so that he can, yes, grab another Emerald from the bird and showing the devious, opportunistic mannerisms befitting of a man with a 300IQ as well as in SA2 in which he puts 100% effort into absolutely everything he does, making sure his plans get pulled-off properly by having his priorities straight, orchestrating plans and pulling them off with commendable ruthlessness and organization.

 

Yes Eggman stumbles. That's what he does. Yes he's got whimsical aspects to his character. That's a large part of his charm. But he's still a man with diabolical thought-processes, who always consistently got involved directly in his plans and being a genuine thorn in Sonic and co's sides and who had a real thread of ruthlessness, getting shot of his E-series robots when they fail him to tortorously remodelling Beta after he lost to Gamma to willingly leaving Rouge to die in the Security Hall and being more concerned about emeralds than her welfare as well as the little bit about him annihilating an entire island just for the sake of covering his tracks.

 

Gosh...I miss the time when Eggman was a more effectual villain who contributed to a Sonic game story to further his plans and contribute to curveballs in the story. When his final boss robots were satisfying to take down not only because they didn't suck donkey balls like the Egg Nega Wisp or Time Eater but because they were well built up-to and therefore more satisfying to take down s a result.

[FalconKick]

 

What makes it all the more pitious?

 

The fact that it's degenerating Eggman from a competent mastermind who always got his hands dirty and who sought to directly get involved in his plans to amazing effect before they got messed-up into a much more ineffectual villain who is predominantly sitting on his arse behind the scenes and hardly getting involved in anything before his plans get messed up.

 

- It's certainly NOT doing the character justice.

- It's NOT making the plot's more tense from the 'behind the scenes' aspect and in Colours' case, doesn't make the Wisp conversion scene in any way good because they're extremely undeveloped characters, making caring about their plight difficult.

- It's NOT allowing Sonic to show the snarkier aspects of his character in any interesting way because that's taken-over by lame-ass mute robot 'interactions' and is non-existent in Generations.

 

It's such a shame. We've seen what Eggman is capable of especially in the likes of the Adventure series, near-constantly throwing curveballs at the characters in Sonic Adventure like stealing the Emeralds they find nd directly causing problems for Knuckles and Amy, breaking the Master Emerald and siccing ZERO on Amy so that he can, yes, grab another Emerald from the bird and showing the devious, opportunistic mannerisms befitting of a man with a 300IQ as well as in SA2 in which he puts 100% effort into absolutely everything he does, making sure his plans get pulled-off properly by having his priorities straight, orchestrating plans and pulling them off with commendable ruthlessness and organization.

 

Yes Eggman stumbles. That's what he does. Yes he's got whimsical aspects to his character. That's a large part of his charm. But he's still a man with diabolical thought-processes, who always consistently got involved directly in his plans and being a genuine thorn in Sonic and co's sides and who had a real thread of ruthlessness, getting shot of his E-series robots when they fail him to tortorously remodelling Beta after he lost to Gamma to willingly leaving Rouge to die in the Security Hall and being more concerned about emeralds than her welfare as well as the little bit about him annihilating an entire island just for the sake of covering his tracks.

 

Gosh...I miss the time when Eggman was a more effectual villain who contributed to a Sonic game story to further his plans and contribute to curveballs in the story. When his final boss robots were satisfying to take down not only because they didn't suck donkey balls like the Egg Nega Wisp or Time Eater but because they were well built up-to and therefore more satisfying to take down s a result.

 

Perhaps there is a reason for this ...perhaps because, he's written as the arch-typical super villain. Arch-typical Super villains are always lazy and arrogant. They use their extreme intelligence and almost limitless resources as an excuse for their SUPERIORITY and it bites them in the ass...hard. Often times, they leave the grunt work to the henchmen or they are simply over confident that their plan will come to fruition because it fits their twisted logic. They're also into the theatrical and presentation portions of being villain and will focus more often on that than any actual practicality.

 

Compare the working class Rogues from The Flash: when they have to pull a job, they need to use their abilities in tandem and make sure to leave with the goods with as limited casualties or collateral damage as possible. And if they fuck up, they do the smart thing, pick up what they can and teleport out before Flash comes in. They don't tell anyone their plans and they don't let their pride get in the way.

 

Contrast with the great and infallible DOOM, who is always with his throne on his ass while he sends Doombots and servants and monsters and all sorts of nasty things to fight for him, only doing anything when the Fantastic Four is on his doorstep. Sure, things his way for a while because he's DOOM and that what he does, but he always does some grandiose scheme reveal that lets Richardssss get away and foil his plans. Many great villains fall into this category, from Lex Luthor to Cell to Eggman himself.

 

 Don't forget, long ago, Eggman left most of the work to his badniks to do and the only time he ever did anything is at the end of every zone. He may have had a 200 IQ but he was a horrible strategist: Every zone he conquered was a rush job, just letting the badniks lay about instead of heavily fortifying his defenses (Dr. Wily, he was not). Hell, every time he is defeated, he simply just waits by the end of the next stage with some other contraption to be destroyed, instead of taking his GIANT DEATH EGG ROBO and smashing Sonic by the early stages. Now that he's a Big Boss...

HA-HA-HA....Naked Snake.

 

Now that he is too busy building giant fleets of intergalactic armadas, tearing the planet apart and constructing planet size amusement parks for the sole purpose of distracting the populace, it doesn't seem that he has time to be hands on anymore. Eggman seems to have embraced  a "Quantity vs Quality" rule as of late. Ironically, he seems as impatient as Sonic himself, because most of his plans always seem to be built on the last minute without any proper testing or protection. It's almost like he wants Sonic to stop him.

Have I mentioned the part where typical arch villains are incredibly arrogant? 

 

Ahhh, but what about the Sonic Adventures, these so called instances where Eggman was at his most cunning. Ya see...I don't think he was this Machivelean planner as you think, but rather he just was very clever. Not competent, he made a lot of mistakes along the way. However, he was very opportunistic: using the heroes's effort to get his prizes, studying the texts to understand how Chaos works, tricking others into doing his dirty work for him, on top of the usual "constructing giant engines of war and destruction" bit that he's always been good at. But I can't call him an effectual villain, unless he actually takes those opportunities at their peak, rather than take the easy way out.

 

Besides, you act if SEGA had good writers...ever. Eggman was always meant to be written like a fool to make Sonic look better. Becuase think about it, if Eggman was seriously competent as you say, if he was really the scary villain everyone imagines being voiced by Jim Cummings, you know what would happen right?

 

 

A cold and calculating Eggman is a scary Eggman.

 

And you know what else is scary....that it's been 4 weeks since you made that response to my Black Knight post and I lost all the data from my original message!! I hate leaving responses hanging; it ruins the flow of a conversation or argument. I promise I'll find some time to settle that once and for all.

 

Until then, feel free to vent your anger.

 

 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

A cold, calculating, yet funny Eggman would be the best Eggman.

 

Unfortunately, somewhere around the lines the original writers of Sonic Team forgot how to combine the traits into something more 3 dimensional and entertaining yet competent. It's like the Joker, funny as hell, but is still frightening regardless.

[Milo]

I thought we all agreed that AoSTH Robotnik is best Eggman.

 

 

you know you want it

Edited September 22, 2013 by Yeow

[Zavok the SpinningSilver]

A cold, calculating, yet funny Eggman would be the best Eggman.

 

Unfortunately, somewhere around the lines the original writers of Sonic Team forgot how to combine the traits into something more 3 dimensional and entertaining yet competent. It's like the Joker, funny as hell, but is still frightening regardless.

 

Basically this.

 

I blame SA2, Unleashed and Archie for making me think this, but Eggman just seemed to be Sonic's version of the Joker....if he had an IQ of 300 and built killer robots. Putting animals into essentially a killer hamster wheel is indeed a cruel joke that this man would tell.

 

He was never meant to just sit on his ass and let his grunts do all the work for him. He had his grunts, but was never afraid to jump into the battlefield himself. MULTIPLE TIMES. He was whimsical, and was a joy to see. On the other hand, he kicked ass. You mess with him, you're done. He wasn't the typical villain, or at least not to the degree that Bowser can be at times. He's Eggman. There's a reason he's regarded as one of the most diabolical villains in video game history, let alone the greatest evil mastermind of all time (according to GameDaily anyway).

 

Falcon Kick, you're right in the vein that Eggman has to be written better to fully back up my points, but the message we're trying to convey is that he's shown potential. He's not exactly at Joker levels of awesome villainy, but we've seen him right at the edge of being there....and then trek backwards. It hurts to see.

[Jet Prower]

I sometimes wonder with Eggman/Robotnik, if he has been toned down over time to stop just that, him getting too scary or depressing in the games and such? This is supposed tobe a kids game, even though it would appear more older teens and young adults play him now. If Eggman sounds too evil and is doing the evil things we know he could do, wouldn't that end up kicking the games ratings up from E10 to T ratings? We all know just how evil and dark Eggman can make things if he really puts his mind to it, but will they still let him do that sort of thing?

 

 

This is just something that has been in my mind for awhile. I definately agree that he should act smarter and do a better job on defense and securing what he wants. He just seems to think quantity is alot better than quality these days, unlike in the older days, where yes, quantity was still his thing, but he seemed to cover his butt more effeciently to where the other side had to think alot more to get to him, instead of just running right in and blowing everything up.

[DC111]

I dunno, I kinda like calculating and evil Eggman. Just not cold, I guess. It doesn't have to be "funny and lighthearted" vs "clever and dark." There can be a mix of both, can't there? Eggman is the main villain of the series; I think it's okay to have some evil moments in there. Lately it seems like he sets up these obstacle courses of his like he's just waiting for Sonic to fulfill the structured task of coming to fight him. This is a bit of a generalization, but I don't think it'd be too much to ask for the ol' doc to come screw things up when Sonic and co. least expect it, or to "seriously" threaten the safety or integrity of a character now and then, like when he had Amy at gunpoint in SA2, and already knew Sonic would come to save her no matter what the cost, hence having a trap ready for the blue blur and launching him out into space to his supposed demise.

 

It was clever on Eggman's part and contributed some urgency to the plot. And even outside of the plot implications, the sense of conflict caused by Eggman's actions gave rise to some character-related opportunities to several characters. We have Eggman himself who just showed off some real cleverness and evil, while still having had some comic aspects throughout the game to balance this out; Sonic, who now has to get out of this situation his arch-nemesis put him in, and has a rare moment of doubt ("But... can I do this?"), which we don't see very often and still was only in his mind, not overtly said, but there; and Tails, who shows his loyalty to Sonic and refuses to give up, having a moment of rightful rage and fighting Eggman. (Moments we need more of nowadays, I'd say.)

 

Conflict offers so much potential for plot and characters alike, and heck, even the game itself because that example above really validates that bossfight against Eggman and makes you want to kick ass. Being that Eggman is the main villain, he's the one most consistently available for this kind of conflict. I think it'd be GREAT if Eggman actually elicited a sense of urgency from the characters and players a little more often, whilst still being able to make you laugh or grin, with comical dialogue a la Colors announcements. It doesn't have to turn out anything like that sadistic Archie cover up there. Just, you know, some conflict that the characters can take seriously enough for you to feel the sense of urgency and drive that an adventure should provide. I personally think that makes the gameplay more fun anyway; it gives it some purpose. But I'm starting to go off on a tangent here.

 

In short, SA2 Eggman + Colors Eggman = Best Eggman. They're pretty far away from each other on the spectrum, but I think if these two portrayals were to meet in the middle, it would be fantastic.

I sometimes wonder with Eggman/Robotnik, if he has been toned down over time to stop just that, him getting too scary or depressing in the games and such? This is supposed tobe a kids game, even though it would appear more older teens and young adults play him now. If Eggman sounds too evil and is doing the evil things we know he could do, wouldn't that end up kicking the games ratings up from E10 to T ratings? We all know just how evil and dark Eggman can make things if he really puts his mind to it, but will they still let him do that sort of thing?

 

 

This is just something that has been in my mind for awhile. I definately agree that he should act smarter and do a better job on defense and securing what he wants. He just seems to think quantity is alot better than quality these days, unlike in the older days, where yes, quantity was still his thing, but he seemed to cover his butt more effeciently to where the other side had to think alot more to get to him, instead of just running right in and blowing everything up.

 

Sonic games have already been getting E10 ratings on and off, and while I don't think Eggman has much to do with that, it should leave enough leeway for him to get away with the same kind of 'evil' as earlier modern games. But regardless, I think Eggman can be given justice as a villain, regardless of what the rating is. It's just a matter of how it's written.

[Vertekins]

When I think more about it, SA2 Eggman fills the weaknesses or Colours Eggman and vice-versa.

 

Characters took Eggman seriously in SA2. All of his threats, be it what he presented the world with when he blew up half of the moon and threatened the world with the same and holding both Tails and Amy hostage were treated seriously. Even Sonic never doubted Eggman's plan to blow up the island when he heard it over Shadow's walkie-talkie. Eggman always got his hands dirty to make sure that his plans were fruitful. This not only adds onto Eggman's dastardliness but also his credibility, hence why no character treats him lightly. But then his whimsical and exuberant aspects took a large backseat.

 

In Colours, his apathy, selfishness and dedication to covering-up his plans under the guise of doing something good by constructing a space elevator and theme park of truly gargantuan scale is a testament to how diabolical and determined he is. Not to mention the wicked manner in which he tried to pit Tails against Sonic when the former willingly took the bullet for the latter. Let's not forget how vivid his ever-present lust for attention is when his aim was to gain the undivided attention of everybody on the planet. The downside? Sonic and Tails hardly take him seriously. His lack of continuing direct involvement in his plans offsets his dangerousness. His malevolence, despite still being there, takes too much of a backseat to his whimsy.

 

So yes. SA2 Eggman + Colours Eggman would likely result in the most triumphant portrayal of the character if it were ever pulled-off.

[Kuzu]

So Archie Eggman then...

 

Archie Eggman has the cunning and mental skill of SA2 Eggman, and the whimsy charm of Eggman from Colors onward. He's a combination of funny and threatening, basically Faux Affably Evil, and its glorious. So yea, Archie Eggman is best Eggman.