Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[AngelSlayerN64]

12 minutes ago, Toby said:

Considering its been dead for as long as it has, why would we need a SatAM writer at any point?

You misunderstood me. I merely thought Karl Bollers could've made that show better, if he were a writer back then.

[E-122-Psi]

4 hours ago, Toby said:

Considering its been dead for as long as it has, why would we need a SatAM writer at any point?

It was an extension of my statement, talking about what ifs (as I began with, I liked some of Ian's Sonic X stories better than the anime itself).

Quote

You misunderstood me. I merely thought Karl Bollers could've made that show better, if he were a writer back then.

Didn't Bollers write 'the slap'?

I just don't think any of the comic writers have been good at writing the Satam part of the comic verse. They always accentuate the dark and mature tone like that was the only thing about it, and forget to give the Freedom Fighters their foibles from the cartoon. Ian TRIES to get the balance, but I still don't think he has any grasp of it (most of his better stuff is either that he has completely reinnovated or is from a different media). I feel only the very early comics (that ironically had a VERY different tone and based things more off early production notes) had some palpable idea of them.

4 hours ago, Person said:

Just was thinking about one of my opinions that is probably pretty unpopular:

Sonic Advance 2 is the best Sonic Advance game. I enjoyed the higher focus on speed, even if it meant for more "hold right" gameplay. It did away from the cheapness and questionable level design of the first Sonic Advance, but to be fair, Advance 2 is a little too easy at points. I really love the trick system though, where you could pull off higher mid-air dash moves and forward dash moves to reach other points of the levels.

It also, IMO, had the best level tropes, very wacky and cool looking like Sonic CD, but keeping some of the modern aesthetic of the other Sonic games at the time like SA2 and Heroes.

If there was another 2D Sonic game, I'd want it to be like Advance 2. It was like the perfect middle ground between classic gameplay and Rush-style boost gameplay.

I would have likely rated SA2 a LOT higher if it wasn't for that pointlessly frustrating manner of entering the special stage. Whose bright idea was it to implement heavy item searching in high speed levels where you have limited amount of control and ability to backtrack?

[StaticMania]

Just now, E-122-Psi said:

I would have likely rated SA2 a LOT higher if it wasn't for that pointlessly frustrating manner of entering the special stage. Whose bright idea was it to implement heavy item searching in high speed levels where you have limited amount of control and ability to backtrack?

The answer to that question is...Dimps. Not but Dimps. There's real dumb-boat decisions even in their acceptable games.

[Tara]

I thought you guys were talking about Sonic Adventure 2 because I'm stupid and failed to read everything above, so I was about to submit a long-winded rant about how I feel the Chao Garden Keys in SA2 are actually A-OK by me.

But seriously, I agree, Sonic Advance 2's special stage rings are obnoxiously-designed.  Made even worse by the fact that you have to do it for every character, which is both annoying and illogical from a plot perspective.  Otherwise, I agree that Sonic Advance 2 was my favorite of the Advance games.  Wish they'd give it a VC release outside of Japan.

[Person]

I totally forgot about that ludicrous method of entering special stage. I'm never one to try and collect all the emeralds in Sonic games anyway, but I can absolutely see why such a lame-brained ridiculous way to do so is hated.

Seriously, I was never able to get those as a kid, so I didn't know what they did for the longest time. I always assumed those star-coins were just some kind of pointless collectable.

....Still, the actual gameplay of Sonic Advance 2 was stellar, IMO.

[Tara]

It actually wouldn't be so bad if Sonic Advance 2 were like the classics in that collecting all the Chaos Emeralds was an optional task, but it's required to get the final stage.

But in general, yeah, the core gameplay for Advance 2 is some of the best in the series.  I would have more than happily have considered it Sonic 4 if they hadn't expended that name on the game we know it as today.

[Your Vest Friend]

Right, I'm going to use this post to fully review SatAM for the first time. If you've seen my statuses (and know me in general), then you already know I really don't like this show, but now we're going to break it down.

I'm going to do this by season because to me they're wholly different beasts.

Season 1

The good points first.

-Heads or Tails is truly a beautiful episode to look at. I ended up watching season 2 before season 1, so going to the regular drab colours to the vivid meadows was a shock to the system.

-There was actually quite a variety of different locales. Aside from the usual places, you got to go to jungles, ruins, sub-terrainian populations (twice, different both times) and even space. Definitely nice to see locations mixed up, especially as it came hand in hand with varying how Robotnik affects the plot (I don't think he was even in Warp Sonic).

-While Sonic and Sally was pretty heavily slanted to, there were times where it was mixed up and others got the spotlight. Hooked on Sonics had Antoine as a focus (although in usual bumbling form he instigated the trouble, although he does eventually recognise how badly he messed up, apologise to Sonic and assist him in the end fight), and Rotor gets two episodes in the limelight which really surprised me. Bunnie...uh, she's on the second mission with Sonic in Ultra Sonic, and Way Past Cool has her limb modifications play into the plot, but she never really felt like a focus.

Okay, now for the negative;

-The art direction for the show is so, so dull, it's not nice to look at. You may argue that's a good thing for Robotropolis, but not only would I refute that, that doesn't explain why nearly every other location is that drab (Sub-Sonic had bits of post-growth that looked nice but nothing else comes to mind).

-The plots for the most part were by the numbers and nothing I couldn't see on any other show of a similar theme at the time. You've got your environmentalist themes, stock plots out the wazoo and not really much spice to add to it. The only episode that really does is Ultra Sonic, being the only true exploration of the roboticisation the pilot established (and with some amount of emotional weight too...but let's see how that's undone when season 2 rolls around). Just for the record, I think David Villaire was the best writer overall; he not only gave us Ultra Sonic, but proved he could do lighter plots with Harmonic Sonic. Too bad he only did those two episodes.

-The characters were stock and never went beyond that, And there wasn't really development for them to add any different nuances to them. Antoine was the French coward, Bunnie was the Southern belle with a feisty side, Rotor was the tech guy (who at least had the tidbit of being the most aggressive about Robotnik, so I can see where that came from post-reboot in the comic), Sally was the serious tactician who always bickered and belittled Sonic, and Sonic was an arrogant jock. If there's one thing I will say, it's that while Sonic and Sally did often bicker like they hate each other in season 1, it was at least balanced by having some of the episodes get one in on Sally, some of their bickered being toned down and having far more moments where they went with Sonic's plans because he could also have good ideas (Notable in Super Sonic, as he had to do the rescue without his speed).

As a little note, there are three episodes where Sally kisses Sonic. Hooked on Sonics has it there to instigate the plot of the episode (and also has Sonic kissing Sally seriously which further drives Antoine to his actions), Sub Sonic uses it as a callback when she gives Rotor the same hero's kiss later (Rotor had been lamenting wanting to be a hero like Sonic earlier), while Sonic and Sally has it for no reason. It may have been a bit OoC for Sally, but at least it was justified by plot two out of three times.

Oh, hey, the writers of Sonic and Sally were Ben Hurst and Pat Allee. That brings us nicely into season 2.

Season 2

Like before, let's get the positive out of the way.

-Um...there's continuity I guess? It's pretty shoddily done and has zero satisfaction, but it's there.

-Shit I've ran out. Sorry.

And now to rip it a new one.

-Remember that variety of locations in season 1? Gone. 80% of the series at least is now set in either Knothole or Robotropolis, with maybe a tiny look at other locations (the only exceptions were really the Void, Drood Henge and Cry of the Wolf, and even they were all set in the Great Unknown. 

-This also greatly reduces the variety of plots (or at least plot foundations) as it reduces it to raid missions on Robotropolis for god knows how many times. It also means that Robotnik has the same involvement in the plot every single time.

-You can tell this season was on a lower budget than season 1. Maybe that explains the locales being so limited, but I'm mainly talking audio. In season 1, I remember a single instance of a line being blatantly looped (Antoine's cry in Sonic Racer). In this season, not only is it far more common, some of the dubbing in is atrocious, with lines played over characters that aren't even being animated to look like they're talking.

-This next point is going to be the most controversial by far, even by this review's standards. So I'm going to give it its own line, bold it, and make sure you know I'm deadly serious in my assertion. Here we go...

In terms of writing, Ben Hurst was the Ken Penders of SatAM.

Very strong claim, but here's a checklist of reasons why I say this.

-Altering characters to suit his vision when it goes against their established characters? Check. Sally actually got it in more minor strokes, since she was already bickering with Sonic most of the time and she wasn't alien to being pigeoned as 'love interest' even outside of Hurst's episodes (in fact, Warp Sonic was worse about it). However, he did remove any trace of her being able to be on the receiving end of the humbling, and the kisses went to about once an episode, with no real justification (in fact, in season 2 it seemed like they were there to desperately assure watchers that Sonic and Sally were destined to be together because the writing made it toxic).

Sonic, on the other hand, got this badly, going from an arrogant jock who, despite liking to act first a lot, still had a lot of good ideas that made it clear that he could hold his own to an arrogant jock who didn't have one brain cell between his ears and had to rely on Sally to do anything. The fact that one of Hurst's season 3 plans was to mature Sonic when he regressed him from that level to begin with is insulting.

-Reducing the rest of the cast to being background noise? Check. Antoine was at least kept somewhat in relevance, as apparently the network wanted more comedy in season 2, and he was the comic relief. But this was not a good thing for him, because now his occassional bits came about far more often which made it more grating, and the cast was far more unpleasant to him (not that season 1 didn't have this, but it was few and far between even with Antoine present). The worst of it were definitely the Antoine double stories (two of which had the only stories not written by Hurst or Allee. Len Jansen wrote four episodes in season 1, including the pilot. He wasn't bad there by any means, although he did throw in banal humour on occasion. I guess being forced onto Antoine episodes really wasn't his forte). 

Bunnie and Rotor, meanwhile, were there as props and maybe to provide a plot device/point. If Bunnie went on a mission, she'd be there to provide extra lines and that's about it (her line about a magnet strapped to her chest for a mission making her feel attractive is pretty much up there with Sax Cymbal). Rotor never got any field action, being reduced to making inventions in Knothole despite working the field many times in season 1 and having the most episodes outside of Sonic and Sally to prove his solo chops. Tails is mostly ignored for season 2 (which, to be fair, was nothing new), but then he got the actually okay Drood Henge, which showed him having learned tech stuff from Sally, and being able to make a good plan. Sounds like good grounds to bring him more up to speed with his game counterpart's adeptness, right? Well, considering that Hurst's idea for developing Tails was to have him discover that he had immense powers, I don't think that would have been capitalised on. 

-Bringing in new characters that get far more focus than established characters because they're his own creation? Check. Dulcy is the big culprit here, and I can understand why SatAM fans would have loathed her when she appeared. She comes out of nowhere, is suddenly on pretty much every mission, has an annoying running gag, and within seven episodes has her own titled episode, her race being retroactively made super important and a whole destiny set up for her, all while Bunnie, Rotor and Tails stand aside and do nothing. I'd go more into it, but...ah, not now.

Even though she's existed from the start, I'd say NICOLE was the other culprit. In season 1, NICOLE was clearly just a computer unit, since all she did was relay information and hack. There's even a moment where Sonic yells at NICOLE for being so complex in the jargon, and because it's a computer it just keeps relaying the information back, not responding to Sonic's stimulus. In The Void, Hurst felt some strange need to give this computer semblence of character, by having it simplify the analyses to the point he understands it and even sassing him by treating him like an idiot at one point, and eventually picking up his mannerisms when talking to him. This, despite the contradiction it has with the season 1 moment above. It's like MAYA from Rise of Lyric but done worse (even with not liking SatAM, I'm surprised I can use RoL as a positive contrast). The cynical part of me thinks this was done as yet another way to link Sonic and Sally together, the less cynical part of me thinks he wanted an excuse to have Sonic be able to use NICOLE in the Doomsday Project. Either way, it shouldn't have been done, at least not until the aforementioned sidelining had been dealt with. And the fact her planned origin would have been being basically the computer copy of a dead child Robotnik lured to his base warrants "gratuitously adding unfitting elements for Sonic" being checked off too.

-Establishing elements that end up with very little payoff? Check. Mainly this is about the whole 'other Freedom Fighter' thing. That was set up in the first episode with Ari, wasn't brought up again until Cry of the Wolf (with Ari rescued from the void in the meantime), at which point it's off handedly mentioned that the other two FF groups have contacted the Wolf Pack and want to help. And then they have zero contribution to the Doomsday Project. That was pointless.

-Ignoring what other writers had established plotwise to do whatever with it? Check. I've already gone into NICOLE, but that's one of the least egregious things he ignored for his plans. To wit;

*King Acorn is alive and has evidence of being active recently? (Sonic Boom) No he's not, he's alive but been in the Void for a decade! If anything, Sonic Underground is like Sonic Boom: The Series (but not the actual Sonic Boom series if you get what I mean).

*A reversal of roboticisation in the mind can only be a temporary override with the power of love? (Heads or Tails, Ultra Sonic) Nah, you can restore their minds forever and not worry about Robotnik reverting them! Who cares if that retcons one of the most defining episodes of the show?

*Other free people aren't out of place and can even be seen as part of the Knothole village? (Warp Sonic for strangers, many episodes for the Knothole village including Sonic and Sally) Nope, the FFs are totally alone and you need a list from daddy to think that other people can be allies! Griff? Cat? Who are they?

*The Freedom Fighters were working on having their own transportation including a plane? (Sonic and the Secret Scrolls) Nuh-uh, they'll only ever need Dulcy for that!

*Terapods are considered the most powerful species by Robotnik for sheer power? (Way Past Cool) That one's going to be so ignored, dragons are established to be super special and powerful to Robotnik even before Sonic became an enemy!

I'm sure there's more, but these are the ones that stick out the most.

-Contrivances abound that solve or create the problem without needing any effort? CHECK. Season 2 is chock full of these, and they really takes the stakes out of events. Uncle Chuck's reversion has been mentioned, but I didn't mention how he happened to have just built a second base making Spyhog a wholly pointless episode save for Doomsday Project build-up. Blast to the Past started because Dulcy happened to know about the floating island and time stones despite everyone else thinking of it as a myth (how would Dulcy know about the stones definitely being there if they're in the temple? And how did no-one find that island before her if she can just bump into it?), and then has Chuck magically believe they're the real deal instead of questioning their identity. Cry of the Wolf has the good guys shoot down a powerful pod several times with fakeouts, only for it disposed of with lightning.

But the worst offender has to be the Doomsday Project itself. Firstly, they somehow had the solution to getting rid of the pods (metal-eating acid in water balloons) the entire time...but could only make 25 of them. It should have at least been established when they thought of this, because that seems like something you'd want on standby in the first place when fighting a metal army. Then, Robotnik has a roboticiser just for Sonic that can overpower him with one power ring...so he brings out three (never mind the fact you can't get three at the same time since the life span of one power ring would go before another could be made, as established in earlier episodes). The most terrible, most contrived asspull though? The core of the machine is diamond-covered, appearently making it indestructible (let's ignore the fact that it wouldn't). The Freedom Fighters decide to use the deep power stones from Drood Henge to eliminate the machine. Problem: they have one, but Robotnik has the other. The solution? Sonic goes to search for it amongst the stored plans, and it's sitting right out in the open, completely unprotected so Sonic can just grab it.

...What? This is an artefact capable of destroying the world or granting immense power if you get the other half, and Robotnik, with all of his planning, resources and effort spent on retrieving it, essentially leaves it on the filing cabinet.

So yeah, that's season 2 done, and in a nutshell it's boring and stupid and goddamnit I never want to see it again.

Then again, I don't want to see the whole show ever again, once is enough for me to have research notes.

 

NB. Cry of the Wolf was actually a solely Allee written episode, but it's so tied into the Doomsday arc I don't doubt that Hurst influenced what had to happen in the episode.

 

[Big Panda]

I saw a headcanon a while back that claimed the King Acorn thing was another side-effect of Blast to the Past, along with Rosie.

It could work...if Sonic and Sally actually recognised it as something that changed.

Also, I'm surprised you didn't bring up Season 2's character redesigns.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Despite the fact that I loved SatAM as a kid (and haven't watched enough of it more recently to conclusively say my opinion's changed), you've brought up some good points, VEDJ...especially about Season 2. Even when I was younger I liked Season 1 a lot better.

Like Earnest-Panda, I'm a little surprised you didn't mention the redesigns. I'm glad Rotor's Season 2 design never made it into the comics or anything else, it was very stupid-looking. Everything they changed about Rotor in Season 2 was a mistake, from his design to his voice to his role to his personality (which I guess wasn't changed in a huge way, but from what I remember he became a bit more cheery and generic). Also, I despise Antoine's Season 2 personality - it's not funny, it's just stupid and annoying, especially since he had at least small glimmers of competence and likability in Season 1.

[Big Panda]

The new comic continuity actually incorporated parts of Rotor's season 2 design into his young design (the sneakers, primarily).

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

The sneakers were the only part of Rotor's Season 2 design that I actually liked, so no problems there x)

[Your Vest Friend]

I probably would have recognised it more if he showed up in more than four episodes in season 2, and even in those appearances he did next to nothing. Also there might be the factor that before this marathon I'd seen seven episodes of season 2 (at different times and not really remembering too much) and none of season 1, so I was probably accustomed to the later design.

But yeah, his season 1 design was better, as was his personality. It's just that a complaint like that is a drop in the ocean compared to the stuff up there, at least to me.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Honestly, as much as anyone can like SatAM, or any of the Sonic cartoons back in the 90s, the stuff's aged badly.

Heck, a lot of things from the 90s have (and there were plenty that have aged pretty damn good, don't get me wrong). Nowadays is good for nostalgia, but I remembered watching one episode and almost wanting to turn the TV off due to how cheesy the script was - I had to revert myself back to my childhood self to enjoy it.

[E-122-Psi]

To tell you the truth I think even Dulcy was a pretty underplayed character. Not only was her personality pretty one note (DUUUUUH, COMING' HOME MA was not funny ONCE), but she was rarely that developed in her role mission wise. She either provided comic relief, acted as a plane or swooped in and saved the day at the very last second. She rarely went into the thick of things herself, despite the show over boosting her powers any sparse occasion she did. Antoine himself was made to be mostly useless, and any guest characters were deceptively superfluous. EVERYTHING revolved around Sonic and Sally strategising (which itself was mostly the two arguing and Sonic accepting Sally was right). Season Two was actually pretty damn monotonous in it's treatment of the characters.

I always thought the tensity and darkness was overrated as well. Sure, Satam Robotnik's sinister personality was something new, but in terms of writing, he tended to actually make stupider mistakes than his Eggman counterparts. There were plenty of times he could have been easily defeated and captured (as mentioned Dulcy and Sonic were shown perfectly capable of going in and curb stomping him), but of course the Freedom Fighters never chose to do that because it would end the show (which makes even less sense in this interpretation because putting an end to Robotnik's reign is their entire goal, not just neutralising his plans like in other medias).

Season One was lacking in continuity and some consistency, it was mostly a large bath of ideas the show could have, but in that concept, I thought it did have a fair bit more to behold. Not having the same writers for every episode probably helped. Even then Bunnie didn't seem to get a lot of notice however. She seems like one of those early concepts that got ignored the more the creative team developed the project.

And I'm glad someone preferred the pilot setup. It felt a better moderation of whimsy and drama (Season Two tried to go back to this, but in several of the wrong ways). 

[Yoko/葉子]

I think the Tchaikovsky 1812 Overture should be used for a chase scene with Sonic chasing Eggman with Eggman firing cannons in sync with the music.

Or maybe there could be a game with a theme like in Norse mythology with 9 worlds, I'd pay $80 for that. Not counting Lost World or Colors.

Sonic 3D Blast is still a fun game, even without my sentimental feelings towards it.

[SonicFreak94]

On May 21, 2016 at 7:18 PM, Tara said:

Getting the last word in and then acknowledging a mod's request isn't complying.  When a mod asks you to drop something, you drop it.  Not helped, either, is that you decided to use this as an opportunity to display both blatant disrespect for people who disagree with you as well as a fundamental lack of understanding of how human conversation actually works.  Further disrespect of member opinions and mod requests will be subject to strikes.

Oh dear. How can you tell if someone is a mod because I don't want to be banned from sega forums AND SSMB.

 

 on topic: 

I disagree that the 2000s were a dark age of Sonic. The 2000s had the advanced games, the adventure games, the rush games....

We had it good back then there was something for every kind of fan every few years.

 

But now all we have is a ton of Sonic Colors clones that degrade the cast and saturate the fanbase with Nintendo fanboys.

The two dark ages are 1995-1999 and 2010- present.

[FriendBot]

Easy, when you see the member banner under you avatar. If it says SSMB Staff, then it's a safe bet that they're a mod. But that's just a theory.

[SonicFreak94]

5 minutes ago, sansy said:

Easy, when you see the member banner under you avatar. If it says SSMB Staff, then it's a safe bet that they're a mod. But that's just a theory.

My phone must be screwing something up because I don't see the banners anymore.

[Zaysho]

1 hour ago, reflection_of said:

My phone must be screwing something up because I don't see the banners anymore.

My phone's dead, so I can't actually confirm if this is the case, but the banners may not show on mobile. You can check the staff directory though if you're wondering who's who.

[Diogenes]

14 hours ago, reflection_of said:

on topic: 

I disagree that the 2000s were a dark age of Sonic. The 2000s had the advanced games, the adventure games, the rush games....

We had it good back then there was something for every kind of fan every few years.

 

But now all we have is a ton of Sonic Colors clones that degrade the cast and saturate the fanbase with Nintendo fanboys.

The two dark ages are 1995-1999 and 2010- present.

They weren't making the games I want back in 2000ish, I'll tell you that much. All this kind of sentiment sounds like to me is "back then they made what I wanted so it was good, now they don't so it's bad".

[Muscles Maximum]

It sucks how in love with this series I am and I'm just saddened by the fact that I'm probably not in its target audience anymore. There's so many cool characters with neat abilities and personalities and it'd be great if they were handled well. It sucks that all you've got to go by now is your own headcanon when you see how they handle cool characters like Shadow and Knuckles who've been downgraded to a single character defining trope.

And then when the social media account highlights how much they love memes and post shit like that on the daily, it kind of bothers me. I get Aaron's a fun loving guy and that's just how internet culture is and you gotta show how hip and in the know you are but... idk. I just don't like it. I can only hope that kind of humor doesn't find its way into the games. I can't explain this feeling and I know it doesn't even really matter. I'm probably in the super minority when it comes to that meme stuff. 

At least there's the comics, I guess.

[quark]

I think the problem is that Sonic has had so many major changes and reinventions over the years that they don't even have a single target audience anymore.  Anything they make isn't going to be "real" sonic to most of its fans because everybody's fixated on the Genesis games, or the Dreamcast games, or the GBA/DS games.  The modern games feel like they're designed to be as inoffensive as possible, which is how they end up being mostly unremarkable.  Even with the character roster, they're afraid to use anybody but Tails (and even then only as a non-playable character) because he's the only supporting character who's been a major part of every era.

[FantasticMrRobb]

Here's one that I'm sure is pretty unpopular; I actually really like the talking the characters do during the stages like they do in games like Sonic Heroes. I'm not sure why, guess I feel like it adds a little more fun to the levels. But I know some people think its annoying, so that's okay.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

OK, I started playing Sonic 4 Episode I recently and, having almost finished the first three zones, I just can't hold it in anymore - it's popular opinion time! Namely, the popular opinion that that game is a stinky pile o' poop.

Well, okay, in some ways that's too harsh. I mean, the game is by all means playable, made with a reasonable degree of competency, and it's certainly fun from time to time. When they introduce a new gimmick, oftentimes it's pretty fun. There are still sometimes those moments that make Sonic so great - those moments when you manage to pull off a cool stunt, or where you get into the flow of speed.

Unfortunately, all the new gimmicks are sandwiched between gimmicks that have been completely recycled from the classic games with barely any changes to speak of, and all those moments of Sonic-y coolness and flow are only brief interruptions in the swampy malaise of a game that just doesn't feel good to play - at least certainly not compared to the classics, heck, not even compared to non-classic Sonic games when they're good. Something about the physics really ruins that amazing sense and satisfaction of truly gaining speed and being able to pull off great moves with it. And considering that's one of the best parts of Sonic, that's uh...a pretty big flaw.

So the end result is that, a large percentage of the game is essentially just a much worse version of much better games. Seriously, such a massive percentage of this game is such a close replica of older games, only without the great physics, sense of challenge, or anything else that made those games so good. The extent to which they're just "aping" their own games (well technically not since it's made by Dimps and not Sonic Team, but you get my drift ) is almost...disgusting, if that's not too melodramatic. Even if the details are different and there are SOMETIMES new (and even good!) ideas, in the broad strokes, the levels' looks and gimmicks are all things you've played through before...except this time, WORSE! Yayyyy.

Seriously, sometimes it almost feels like the game is mocking me. I was just going through Lost Labyrinth (real creative name btw) today, and with so much very, very clearly copy-pasted from Labyrinth Zone, it almost felt like the game was reminding me of a better game while denying me the opportunity to play it or anything remotely comparable to it in quality, like it was saying, "Nyah-nyah-na-boo-boo! You could be playing a good Sonic game, but instead you're playing this, sucker >:D"

And I remind you, this was because the game was reminding me of Labyrinth Zone. Labyrinth Zone. Not exactly known as the most enjoyable level in the series, but MAN, it sure seems fun compared to this schlock. Even if it was frustrating at first, the over solidness of the game inspired me to keep working at it until I could finally get through it. With Sonic 4, sometimes I just barely feel motivated to continue through the slightest challenge because I just don't like the game.

Another flaw with the game: the music. The music is so, so bland and forgettable and generic. And considering this series' generally awesome music, that's pretty awful.

Oh, and while this isn't true of all versions of the game, and maybe it has something to do with my computer settings for all I know, but the version of the game that I have (which is from Steam) looks really, really bad - particularly Sonic's model. The lighting on it looks awful. I can gather from screenshots online that other versions look infinitely better, though.

Overall, the game honestly feels really, really cheap and the fact that this was supposed to be a "successor" to the best Sonic games ever is just a massive insult to the franchise. If it wasn't for the marketing and the campaign, this would just be a really forgettable, unremarkable title...but the extreme failure to deliver on the "promise" they made causes it to be much more annoying. To be perfectly honest, it kind of feels like a fan game: tries to imitate actual Sonic games but contains very little that's truly new, has bad physics, and is generally pretty uninspired. If it was a fan game, it would at least be sort of impressive because at least they managed to make it 3D...but it's an official game, and uh, that's very not good.

Now, it might seem a little hypocritical to bash this game when I like the 8-bit Sonic games, which hardly had perfect physics themselves...but in truth, there's a pretty big difference. The 8-bit games actually had really creative levels quite a lot of the time with unique gimmicks, except when the point was to adapt a level in a Genesis title. Also, the physics never felt quite as bad to me, though I never measured it precisely or anything.

Overall: Sega should honestly be a bit ashamed of themselves for trying to pass up this super-cheap-feeling, low-effort title as a "Sonic the Hedgehog 4". No, it's not irredeemably awful or anything. But it falls so short of what it sold itself as that it almost feels like deception. I know I'm just saying what people have been saying ever since the game came out, but what can I say? I'm experiencing it for the first time and just now learning how right they were!

[Alice Twilight]

Unpopular Opinion, kinda a response to the above poster but it's how I've always felt.

Lost Labyrinth in Sonic 4 I think was great. I can actually move around, I can go fast in this Zone! The Zone it's based on is a much better improvement over Labyrinth Zone is Sonic the hedgehog which 90% of people agree it's the worst part of the game because of how slow it is and you're constantly wishing it was over. Sometimes it's nice to slow down the pace a little but for 70% of the Zone where you're in water jumping every second because it's the only thing that makes you move slightly quicker? Not fun at all.

I'll give Sonic 4 credit where it's due it made Labyrinth Zone bearable by making it into a stage were you can do Sonic things, Run around, jump on enemies at a decent pace not having to worry about where the next bubble is or thinking "Is it over yet?" You might say I just admitted it's really easy if you don't need to worry about Sonic's oxygen but I like to think of it as being modest with its water and on land segments. Great balance between the two in Lost Labyrinth.