Continuity concerning Sonic games

[Jack / Joker]

Can't Chronicles' ending lead into Unleashed's opening if you don't overthink it?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Can't Chronicles' ending lead into Unleashed's opening if you don't overthink it?

Conisidering that it was meant to lead into a Chronicles 2 before we stopped hearing about it, no.

[WarioBone]

Can't Chronicles' ending lead into Unleashed's opening if you don't overthink it?

That's a lot of things to not think about, but it could, theoretically. I guess.

[- Eternal Paradox -]

WARNING! LOTS OF TEXT!

Continuity isn't too bad if you think about it less of a series that follows on from itself, and more a series of story arcs, where certain events had to happen after another.

If we estabish that the classic 3 games happened after each other, like so:

Sonic 1 > Sonic 2 > Sonic 3 and Knuckles

(with pehaps gaps inbetween and various portable)

Sonic Adventure - This has to happen after Sonic and Knuckles. Also, if Sonic CD is cannon, it must happen after this also(Amy seems to refer to it).

Sonic Adventure 2 - Events from Sonic Adventure lead into Sonic Adventure 2 (mainly Tails saving station square)

Sonic Heroes - Shadow is presumed dead from SA2, but found to be alive.

Shadow the Hedgehog - Sonic heroes seems to lead into this. Although the true cannon of this game is debatable, Shadow regains his memory in this game.

Sonic Battle - Debatable if this is cannon or not, but this has to be after heroes because Omega is referenced, and after ShTH because Shadow has his memory back(Might just be incohisantsy).

Sonic 06 - Following the events of ShtH (if the really happened), Shadow joined GUN. This is the only real event that could ever be canon from this game, seeing as it wiped itself for history. Blaze (and iblis) getting sealed in another dimension might lead into Rush (but I doubt it).

Sonic and the black knight - Must happen after SA2, since Sonic reconises Shadow. Possibibly a long time - Sonic says "this brings back memories, except last time I was with Shadow!" when fighting the earth dragon. Also, Sonic seems used to being dragged to other worlds, so it's quite likely it takes place after SATSR as well.

Sonic Unleashed - it's unknown when this happens, but it probably happens after Sonic CD and Sonic 2 (Sonic knows Amy and Tails). Probably after the adventure series and heroes too.

Sonic Colours - This game could take place at any time, however it seems to take place after Sonic adventure at least (Tails is more confident).

Sonic Generations - this game takes seems to take place after Sonic Colours (for modern eggman at least) - the fact that cubot points out all eggman's failings at the end of sonic colours also helps that game lead into this one. Also, the Modern Sonic seems to be from after Secret Rings and Sonic Colours. However, it could be possible that white space can have effects on memory (Blaze comments on crisis city). Eggman and Sonic and Tails seem to be from Sonic 2. Could be after sonic 3/CD, as Sonic "talks" to Knuckles and Amy (however, he talks to everyone else as well). Seems to take place after all the games directly refenced also, since eggman talks of "past failures" (he also takes crisis city too though).

I also have a theory on why Crisis City keeps reappearing, but I've said enough already.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Paradox

[Vertekins]

Spinball, the events of '06, Chronicles, Fighters and Chaotix are strictly non-canon.

- Spinball is non-canon due to 16 blue Chaos Emeralds, off-model ginormous Eggman, Freedom Fighters and the dictations given during development that it would have nothing to do with the main series canon.

- '06 reset itself. The events that occurred in it never happened. Generations seems to be opening a can of worms but then it's entirely possible that it is within the Time Eater's power to "restore" events from erased timelines, hence Crisis City.

- Chaotix were re-introduced in Heroes and Iizuka himself stated that Chaotix is non-canon.

- Fighters has 8 Emeralds and the Metal Sonic from Chaotix that could shoot beams out of it's jet turbine stomach, an ability he exhibited in non-canon Chaotix.

- Chronicles pretentiously screws with continuity, has characters that are extremely OOC and has been stated to be non-canon by Kevin Eva/Archangel.

- I personally don't consider the Rivals games canon due to the contradiction that is Nega's origin alongside inconsistencies such as Sonic not being immune to mind control when Unleashed made this an important plot point.

That said, my take on continuity and what is canon goes like this;

Sonic 1 MD > Sonic CD > Sonic 2 MD > Sonic 3 > Sonic & Knuckles > Sonic 4 episode 1 > Sonic 4 episode 2 > Sonic Advance > Sonic Adventure > Sonic Adventure 2 > Sonic Advance 2 > Sonic Heroes > Sonic Battle > Sonic Advance 3 > Shadow the Hedgehog > Sonic Rush > Sonic Riders > SatSR > Sonic Rush Adventure > Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity > Sonic Unleashed > SatBK > Sonic Colours Wii > Sonic Generations HD.

Sonic Advance comes before SA as the red Tornado is piloted by Tails and Sonic in it. That Tornado was destroyed in SA. Battle comes after Heroes as Rouge acknowledges Omega's existence in Battle. Sadv2 had to come before Heroes because Amy is familiar with Cream.

IMO, SatSR and Colours are definately canon due to Modern Sonic directly acknowledging their events happening. SatBK is the part of the same timeline as Sonic references SA2 and SatSR in it. I also think that the date mentioned in SatBK is one and the same as the one Sonic and Amy can agree to in Unleashed.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Vertekins

[novelty]

Spinball, the events of '06, Chronicles, Fighters and Chaotix are strictly non-canon.

- Spinball is non-canon due to 16 blue Chaos Emeralds, off-model ginormous Eggman, Freedom Fighters and the dictations given during development that it would have nothing to do with the main series canon.

- '06 reset itself. The events that occurred in it never happened. Generations seems to be opening a can of worms but then it's entirely possible that it is within the Time Eater's power to "restore" events from erased timelines, hence Crisis City.

- Chaotix were re-introduced in Heroes and Iizuka himself stated that Chaotix is non-canon.

- Fighters has 8 Emeralds and the Metal Sonic from Chaotix that could shoot beams out of it's jet turbine stomach, an ability he exhibited in non-canon Chaotix.

- Chronicles pretentiously screws with continuity, has characters that are extremely OOC and has been stated to be non-canon by Kevin Eva/Archangel.

- I personally don't consider the Rivals games canon due to the contradiction that is Nega's origin alongside inconsistencies such as Sonic not being immune to mind control when Unleashed made this an important plot point.

That said, my take on continuity and what is canon goes like this;

Sonic 1 MD > Sonic CD > Sonic 2 MD > Sonic 3 > Sonic & Knuckles > Sonic 4 episode 1 > Sonic 4 episode 2 > Sonic Advance > Sonic Adventure > Sonic Adventure 2 > Sonic Advance 2 > Sonic Heroes > Sonic Battle > Sonic Advance 3 > Shadow the Hedgehog > Sonic Rush > Sonic Riders > SatSR > Sonic Rush Adventure > Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity > Sonic Unleashed > SatBK > Sonic Colours Wii > Sonic Generations HD.

Sonic Advance comes before SA as the red Tornado is piloted by Tails and Sonic in it. That Tornado was destroyed in SA. Battle comes after Heroes as Rouge acknowledges Omega's existence in Battle. Sadv2 had to come before Heroes because Amy is familiar with Cream.

IMO, SatSR and Colours are definately canon due to Modern Sonic directly acknowledging their events happening. SatBK is the part of the same timeline as Sonic references SA2 and SatSR in it. I also think that the date mentioned in SatBK is one and the same as the one Sonic and Amy can agree to in Unleashed.

No wonder, you post for Concept: Mobius...

Sounded too good to be just an opinion, that outline is your good concept

[Jack / Joker]

Well... that was a much better story than Sonic '06 anyway...

Edited October 19, 2012 by -The Penguin-

[batson]

I dont really think much about continuity in this series anymore, but when i do think of it i tend to think of pretty much every single game in the series as stuff that "counts", except Bean Machine and possibly Spinball. Yeah sure, the series becomes peppered with continuity errors when you think of it that way, but the thing is that the series have continuity errors even if you chose to only count the games that logically must count. Like how Earth looks completely different in Unleashed than it did in Shadow the Hedgehog.

So the way i see it, if youre gonna ignore the continuity fuck ups that comes from accepting the main series games as all taking place in the same universe then you might as well accept those that comes from accepting Chaotix, the Game Gear games, Chronicles, Rivals or whatever other game that doesnt fit with some of the other ones.

Edited October 19, 2012 by batson

[Vertekins]

So the way i see it, if youre gonna ignore the continuity fuck ups that comes from accepting the main series games as all taking place in the same universe then you might as well accept those that comes from accepting Chaotix, the Game Gear games, Chronicles, Rivals or whatever other game that doesnt fit with some of the other ones.

...except that Word of God confirmed Chaotix and Chronicles at least to be non-canon. Which means that denoting them non-canon has absolutely nothing to do with continuity screw-up's in the same universe or even what the fans think of them. The most I've ever seen is fans remarking about the elements that make those games credibly non-canon.

A lot of the games to my memory have nothing that severely compounds them from being part of the same continuity and universe. But you do see quite a lot of fans denoting games as indisputably non-canon due to preference or because they don't like those games. That is nothing more than fanon discontinuity and is therefore bias.

[StaticMania]

Sonic the Hedgehog(1991)

Sonic the Hedgehog CD

Sonic the Hedgehog 2

Sonic the Hedgehog 3

Sonic and Knuckles

*Years later*

Sonic Advance

Sonic Adventure

Sonic Adventure 2

Sonic Advance 2

Sonic Heroes

Sonic Advance 3

Shadow the Hedgehog

Sonic the Hedgehog(2006)

Sonic Battle

Sonic Rush

Sonic Rivals

Sonic Rivals 2

Sonic Rush Adventure

*Time later*

Sonic and the Secret Rings

Sonic Unleashed

Sonic and the Black Knight

Sonic Colours

Sonic Generations

(Next game)

Sonic... whatever

[Diogenes]

... but the thing is that the series have continuity errors even if you chose to only count the games that logically must count.

Well that's basically what makes the difference for me. If a game logically must be part of the canon continuity, it's got to be there regardless of any plotholes or contradictions. If a game doesn't have any solid reason to be included, then the easiest solution to whatever problems it has is to not include it.

[azoo]

I actually would like to keep some aspects of Chronicles and Chaotix canon as well as removing/replacing ShTH's entire story, just as I mentioned on the last page; but that turns more from being about official continuity and just wanting to rewrite it in an (arguably) better way.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Azukara

[neezTHEhuman]

Haven't Sega explicitly demonstrated with that Stardust Speedway cut-scene in episode Metal that Sonic CD took place just before Sonic 4?

Edited October 19, 2012 by LvL100Magikarp

[Diogenes]

No.

[Linkabel]

Spinball, the events of '06, Chronicles, Fighters and Chaotix are strictly non-canon.

- Spinball is non-canon due to 16 blue Chaos Emeralds, off-model ginormous Eggman, Freedom Fighters and the dictations given during development that it would have nothing to do with the main series canon.

- '06 reset itself. The events that occurred in it never happened. Generations seems to be opening a can of worms but then it's entirely possible that it is within the Time Eater's power to "restore" events from erased timelines, hence Crisis City.

- Chaotix were re-introduced in Heroes and Iizuka himself stated that Chaotix is non-canon.

- Fighters has 8 Emeralds and the Metal Sonic from Chaotix that could shoot beams out of it's jet turbine stomach, an ability he exhibited in non-canon Chaotix.

- Chronicles pretentiously screws with continuity, has characters that are extremely OOC and has been stated to be non-canon by Kevin Eva/Archangel.

- I personally don't consider the Rivals games canon due to the contradiction that is Nega's origin alongside inconsistencies such as Sonic not being immune to mind control when Unleashed made this an important plot point.

That said, my take on continuity and what is canon goes like this;

Sonic 1 MD > Sonic CD > Sonic 2 MD > Sonic 3 > Sonic & Knuckles > Sonic 4 episode 1 > Sonic 4 episode 2 > Sonic Advance > Sonic Adventure > Sonic Adventure 2 > Sonic Advance 2 > Sonic Heroes > Sonic Battle > Sonic Advance 3 > Shadow the Hedgehog > Sonic Rush > Sonic Riders > SatSR > Sonic Rush Adventure > Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity > Sonic Unleashed > SatBK > Sonic Colours Wii > Sonic Generations HD.

Sonic Advance comes before SA as the red Tornado is piloted by Tails and Sonic in it. That Tornado was destroyed in SA. Battle comes after Heroes as Rouge acknowledges Omega's existence in Battle. Sadv2 had to come before Heroes because Amy is familiar with Cream.

IMO, SatSR and Colours are definately canon due to Modern Sonic directly acknowledging their events happening. SatBK is the part of the same timeline as Sonic references SA2 and SatSR in it. I also think that the date mentioned in SatBK is one and the same as the one Sonic and Amy can agree to in Unleashed.

...except that Word of God confirmed Chaotix and Chronicles at least to be non-canon. Which means that denoting them non-canon has absolutely nothing to do with continuity screw-up's in the same universe or even what the fans think of them. The most I've ever seen is fans remarking about the elements that make those games credibly non-canon.

A lot of the games to my memory have nothing that severely compounds them from being part of the same continuity and universe. But you do see quite a lot of fans denoting games as indisputably non-canon due to preference or because they don't like those games. That is nothing more than fanon discontinuity and is therefore bias.

I don't think the Tornado makes Sonic Advance automatically before Sonic Adventure. Tails could have easily rebuild it after the events of Adventure, plus I though the plane used in Unleashed and Rush Adventure was the Tornado with modifications.Plus Iizuka ("the word of god") himself said it in Sonic Boom that the stories in the games happen one after another unless specifically stated that it happened before (like Sonic 4)

Edited October 19, 2012 by Pegasus Seiya

[Vertekins]

I don't think the Tornado makes Sonic Advance automatically before Sonic Adventure. Tails could have easily rebuild it after the events of Adventure, plus I though the plane used in Unleashed and Rush Adventure was the Tornado with modifications.Plus Iizuka ("the word of god") himself said it in Sonic Boom that the stories in the games happen one after another unless specifically stated that it happened before (like Sonic 4)

I never said that the Tornado's of Sonic Advance/Sonic Adventure and SRA/Unleashed were one and the same. The SRA Tornado was a two-seater, contrary to Advance/Adventure's one-seater whilst Unleashed's Tornado is capable of transforming.

Another thing that possibly denotes Advance as happening before Adventure is Amy's moveset. It's very similar to the one she has in Adventure and very characteristically different to the moveset she uses in games after Sonic Adventure.

[Diogenes]

Another thing that possibly denotes Advance as happening before Adventure is Amy's moveset. It's very similar to the one she has in Adventure and very characteristically different to the moveset she uses in games after Sonic Adventure.

This is pretty weak evidence as it is, but doesn't this only at best narrow it down to them being next to each other? Whatever moves she gains in Heroes onward, that's all after the Adventures and the first two Advances anyway.

[Linkabel]

I never said that the Tornado's of Sonic Advance/Sonic Adventure and SRA/Unleashed were one and the same. The SRA Tornado was a two-seater, contrary to Advance/Adventure's one-seater whilst Unleashed's Tornado is capable of transforming.

Another thing that possibly denotes Advance as happening before Adventure is Amy's moveset. It's very similar to the one she has in Adventure and very characteristically different to the moveset she uses in games after Sonic Adventure.

Yeah but again that doesn't change what Iizuka said when he was asked about the canon. He said that the canon follows the releases of the games which means it's Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, and then Sonic Advance (unless Sonic Team states otherwise).

[Vertekins]

Yeah but again that doesn't change what Iizuka said when he was asked about the canon. He said that the canon follows the releases of the games which means it's Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, and then Sonic Advance (unless Sonic Team states otherwise).

But this is fundamentally flawed logic when you consider that Battle was released before Heroes yet makes mention of Omega.

Unless Battle is non-canon that is.

Still, Iizuka is a leading authority on the series, so it is questionable to doubt what he's said

[Kuzu]

Didn't Battle and Heroes come out in the same year?

[Linkabel]

But this is fundamentally flawed logic when you consider that Battle was released before Heroes yet makes mention of Omega.

Unless Battle is non-canon that is.

Still, Iizuka is a leading authority on the series, so it is questionable to doubt what he's said

Didn't Battle and Heroes come out in the same year?

Yes to answer your question Ragna they did come out the same year. In Japan they came out in December (with Battle coming out earlier on December and Heroes towards the end of the month). Here in the USA I believe they came out the same day and in Europe, Heroes came out before Battle .And if I remember correctly Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Heroes, and Sonic Battle were all tied in that Sega chose to put Cream in Advance 2 to get people to know her and Heroes & Battle were planned for the whole "the year of Sonic" or whatever it was called.So that kind of explains why maybe it's not a problem......and Iizuka is so cray cray.

[Multikaris]

My turn:

4.5 Billon years before Sonic 1: God creates Earth and many lesser gods, including Dark and Light Gaia. God stuffs Dark and Light Gaia inside the Earth.

4 billion years before Sonic 1: God creates the first lifeform, who creates Makai inside a lesser god. God creates even more lesser gods. Zeus, Arceus, Ra, and Quetzalcoatl create even lower gods, like the flying spaghetti monster.

150 million years before Sonic 1: Iblis the genie dies and becomes an angel.

65 million years before Sonic 1: Lucifer falls and becomes Satan. Creatures from Makai invade Earth due to the carbon emmisions induced by Satan's fall and kill most Earth life.

25,000 Years before Sonic 1: Adam and Eve are born and banished from Eden.

10,000 years before Sonic 1: A great flood wipes put all hominids except modern Man, who survive on a boat.

8,000 years before Sonic 1: Tikal born. Her abusive father puts her through hell. Tikal and chaos become friends. Unfortunately, Pachacamac kills Tikal which makes Chaos go nuts. Tikal's ghost is sealed away with Chaos's ghost. Meanwhile, Babylon falls.

5,000 years before Sonic 1: Black doom born

4,000 years before Sonic 1: Nocturne taken to the twilight cage.

446 years before Sonic 1: Humans conquer echidnas, who effectively become extinct.

50 years before Sonic 1: Shadow born. His sister Mariabis killed, and Shadow is sealed.

10 years before Sonic 1: Sonic born

Sonic 1

Sonic 2 GG

Sonic Arcade

Sonic 2

Sonic 3 and Knuckles

Sonic CD

Sonic Chaos

Sonic Triple Trouble

Sonic the Fighters

Sonic R

Knuckles Chaotix

Tails Adventures and Sonic Blast take place simultaneously

Sonic 4 episode one

Tails sky patrol

Sonic Unleashed

Sonic Pocket Adventure

Sonic Adventure

Sonic Adventure 2

Sonic Advance

Sonic Advance 2

Sonic Heroes

Shadow the Hedgehog

Sonic Battle

Sonic Rush

Sonic Advance 3

Sonic Rivals

Sonic and the Secret Rings

Sonic and the Black Knight

Sonic 06

Sonic Rivals 2 (the reason Blaze II wasn't there is as she was the Ifrit's meal)

Sonic Colors

Sonic Generations

Sonic Jump

[Wraith]

Fools, everyone knows the only legit timeline is my own.

Sonic 1, Sonic and Eggman meet and battle it out.

Sonic CD, After Sonic one, Sonic does some travelling and comes across little planet. He meets Amy.

Sonic 2, Sonic meets Tails. They become bros and kick the crap out of Robotnik with TEAMWORK.

Sonic 3, Sonic and Tails meet Knuckles, kick the crap out of robotnik again

-cast goes their seperate ways. que shitty spinoffs from the classic era-

Sonic 4, Sonic fight through Eggman's plot to rehash everything he's ever done up until that point.

Tails Adventure and Knuckles Chaotix happen around the same time as episode 1

Sonic Adventure comes along. Everyone has aged a bit. they still kick the crap out of robotnik.

Sonic Advance 1 happens a little bit after.

SA2 happens a while after. Shadow is introduced and killed off. Rouge is introduced.

Sonic Heroes happens, Shadow returns. The Chaotix are shown to be alive and well despite not appearing since Knuckles Chaotix

The whole Gizoid saga happens(Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Battle, Sonic Advance 3)

The black arms invade, causing whatever the fuck actually happened in Shadow the Hedgehog to happen.

Sonic Rush and Rush Adventure happen back to back. Sonic meets Blaze and discovers the alternate dimension she hales from.

-shitty spinoffs part 2-

Sonic 06.....happened?

Unleashed, Colors, and Generations. These don't require much explanation.

Sonic Chronicles only works if it happens after everything else, so let's just place it here.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Luigi the Brawler

[Linkabel]

4 billion years before Sonic 1: God creates the first lifeform, who creates Makai inside a lesser god. God creates even more lesser gods. Zeus, Arceus, Ra, and Quetzalcoatl create even lower gods, like the flying spaghetti monster.

I gotta admit I laughed a little bit.

The whole Gizoid saga happens(Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Battle, Sonic Advance 3)

How is Sonic Advance 2 part of the Gizoid storyline?

[Anti Alias]

Sonic Chronicles is written by Bioware, not canon.

I personally believe only things written by Sonic Team of Japan is canon.