Staff changes among Sonic Team.

[Kuzu]

I just want new gameplay. I don't need it to be Adventure like, I don't want Unleashed. I don't even need Extra Characters. I just want something fresh. Sonic is turning into Call of Duty and that's my problem.

[Soniman]

So you say that every COD is "consistent" and not lazy copycat? Yeah sure.

[HUNTER297]

Have you played the COD games first of all?

Edited July 7, 2012 by HUNTER297

[Linkabel]

What I think Sonic Team needs is a break from Sonic like during the Saturn days so they can come back fresh.

I mean does anyone remembered when they were going to make that shooter after Shadow and during the development of Sonic 06?

To me sometimes they seem tired and even though I'm sure they love Sonic, but sometimes you need a break from the things you love. Sadly with the condition of the company that is not going to be an option.

[---]

I'm just gonna say that I like how it's stagnation if it uses a formula you don't like, but if it uses a formula you do like, it's "consistently great". The double standard is just astounding.

Anyway like Diogenes said I don't know who's responsible for what. I'd just say inject some new people, not replace like everyone, to add a different angle and maybe that spark.

[HUNTER297]

I guess every game in the universe must be Call of Duty then.

Edited July 7, 2012 by HUNTER297

[Soniman]

It's not because I don't LIKE the formula, it's because it's FLAWED and doesn't carry enough substance to warrant me coming back after completing it.

[Diogenes]

I'm just gonna say that I like how it's stagnation if it uses a formula you don't like, but if it uses a formula you do like, it's "consistently great". The double standard is just astounding.

I think it's possible for a formula to be reused over many games without becoming stagnant, but it's not something that happens automatically, or for every formula. Some formulas have more flexibility, more things that they can explore, so they don't burn out so quickly, while others more quickly reach their limits. And some designers/teams/companies/whatever take the time to create and inject genuinely new things into a formula to extend its life, while others are more content to ride it out as is. It's more complex than saying "these 5 games have the same core gameplay, and those 5 games have the same core gameplay, so they're both equally stagnant".

Ok I can kinda understand shallow but broken sir?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nDRsjiXiMo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R16IBC_kD5o.

[Ekaje]

This has more to do with general longevity and extra side stuff to do, not the general core gameplay (hell Unleashed is a looong while Colors amd Generations can be beaten in 2-4 hours)

Though Unleashed is longer than the other two for the wrong reasons.

[sonfan1984]

What's the difference beetwen SEGA and Activision in these terms? Both are milking their flagship series with DLCs that they sell as new games.

Really? There's alot of people (including me) who are still waiting for some DLC for SONIC GENERATIONS after 8 long months but it doesn't seem like we're getting that. So it doesn't look like they're milking the franchise with DLC and selling them as new games recently so I dunno where you're getting that from.

Edited July 7, 2012 by sonfan1984

[Stritix]

This has more to do with general longevity and extra side stuff to do, not the general core gameplay (hell Unleashed is a looong while Colors amd Generations can be beaten in 2-4 hours)

No, I'm sure he's referring to the formula. The formula doesn't make you want to replay the stages once you've finished the game. You're just... done with it. At least that's my case with Colours and Generations.

[PerfectChaos]

The Elder Scrolls series evolved but kept core formula untouched, Mario did same. And alot of other series but with Sonic we have the same formula with some control tweaks (Unleashed-Generations) and that's the problem. Lack of fresh content

I'm sorry but that's a screwed up argument. Mario Galaxy-Mario Galaxy 2Bros DS-Bros Wii-Bros2Merely tweaking the formula can work well - Generations' gameplay felt quite different, and overall less linear. Then there's Classic and Werehog (which at least mixed things up), not to mention Colours being WIDELY different. 2 semi-similar games with one radically different one between them = overused formula?

Edited July 7, 2012 by PerfectChaos

[Diogenes]

Mario's usual formula is the kind that I think has a lot of inherent staying power, a lot of options to explore and a lot of hooks to add things onto. That's why Mario games don't often change wildly from one to another; it's relatively easy for them to design new experiences around it, to create new moves, to create new obstacles solved by old moves, to create new powerups that integrate with the existing abilities, etc. Sonic doesn't have that right now; his moves are too tightly focused, the pace of the game is too high, there just isn't much room to build from.

[---]

Mario's usual formula is the kind that I think has a lot of inherent staying power, a lot of options to explore and a lot of hooks to add things onto. That's why Mario games don't often change wildly from one to another; it's relatively easy for them to design new experiences around it, to create new moves, to create new obstacles solved by old moves, to create new powerups that integrate with the existing abilities, etc. Sonic doesn't have that right now; his moves are too tightly focused, the pace of the game is too high, there just isn't much room to build from.

I probably couldn't have said it better myself.

[KrazyBean]

What they need to do is recruit more people...not replace or fire any of their current staff.

[sonfan1984]

Also, why is people jumping to assumptions that just because they're not going to use other characters right away atomically means they're going to continue to 'milk' the franchise using the Unleashed formula?

But yet people want them to go back to the Adventure or classic formula and that isn't milking at all with how many games we had with that formula. Or start completely all over again from scratch with a new gameplay forumla which will probably piss a lot of people off anyway.

Edited July 7, 2012 by sonfan1984

[Diogenes]

Pattern recognition.

[Stritix]

Not a single person in this topic has suggested going back to the Adventure/Classic formula.

[Soniman]

Not a single person in this topic has suggested going back to the Adventure/Classic formula.

No one wants to go back to a shitty, irrelevant formula that was flawed from conception (guess which one I'm talking about).

Edited July 7, 2012 by The Noodle

[Nepenthe]

He didn't say anyone in this topic said that. He asked, "Why is continuing the Unleashed formula considered milking, but continuing the Adventure or classic games is considering not milking?"

[---]

No one wants to go back to a shitty, irrelevant formula that was flawed from conception (guess which one I'm talking about).

You're out to make enemies this fine evening I see :V

And anyway the same could be said about the Unleashed formula.

[Stritix]

No one wants to go back to a shitty, irrelevant formula that was flawed from conception (guess which one I'm talking about).

Scroll up, my dear. Keep up please.

He didn't say anyone in this topic said that. He asked, "Why is continuing the Unleashed formula considered milking, but continuing the Adventure or classic games is considering not milking?"

No, she said people want to go back to the classic/adventure formula which is completely off-topic and besides the point of this argument.

Edited July 7, 2012 by -L-

[sonfan1984]

Not a single person in this topic has suggested going back to the Adventure/Classic formula.

Maybe not in this topic but alot of people are still demanding Sonic Team to make an SA3 or return to the Adventure gameplay and such but when they want to continue on making Sonic only games then it's consider to be milking the Unleashed formula still.

No, she said people want to go back to the classic/adventure formula which is completely off-topic and besides the point of this argument.

I'm saying how come it's consider milking when it's a gameplay forumla that you don't even like but it's not milking when they go back to the adventure/classic formula.

Edited July 7, 2012 by sonfan1984

[Gabz Girl]

I don't see how firing anyone in the staff will change anything. I think Iizuka should definitely stay! Maybe tell the writers to stop creating the corny, lighthearted fluff we've been getting recently but other than that...

[---]

Speaking of Adventure, I did really like how even Iizuka seems to like the Chao Gardens, and the crowd feedback may have pushed him a little closer to bringing them back. Optional of course for those who don't like them.