Jontron

[Celestia]

35 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Because smashed ATM's, broken windows, burning cars,

 

42 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Admittedly, I can't say I'd be willing to write off a movement solely because some Starbucks windows got broken or whatever

:thinking:

36 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

and bricks thrown at cops are just protests guys.

This is...a lot more complicated and also even more bait. I won't deny that some of the people who do that are undoubtedly genuine protesters who either don't even realize that doing they're putting everyone else (as well as themselves) in that protest in danger. On the other hand, there's also the people who don't care because they want to make protesters look bad, and may even want the police to injure or even kill people, for a variety of reasons that generally indicate they're not exactly on black people's side.

Anyway, if you two want to continue your...thing, for some reason, I'm sure there's other threads for it, or you could PM, whatever.

I wanna redirect back to this because I didn't get an answer for whatever reason:

54 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Now then, to get back on topic, regardless of what you think of Jontron, you have to admit that Destiny's DMCA temper tantrum is fucking unacceptable. It only proves that he only won against JonTron, because JonTron's never done this sort of thing before.

In all sincerity I ask you: who and the what? I know Destiny was the dude who this asshole had a debate with, but I know nothing else about him and obviously don't know what you're referring to here, and I don't see any other posts talking about this.

[Tani Coyote]

59 minutes ago, KHCast said:

It really isn't if you actually went off more than what conservative general opinion is. Look up their actual goals, and see what they've positively done. They're working with police in some cities to better the communities 

Quoted for truth. BLM has postponed protests in favor of picnics with cops in some places for goodness sake.

20 hours ago, Meta77 said:

The Klan  originally came from the left and then moved to the right.

Okay no, this is just nonsense.

You are conflating "Democrats" with "the left" and that couldn't be further from the truth. Historically the Democrats and Republicans have each had a broad range of liberal, moderate, and conservative factions within them. Frequently, it was demographics rather than politics that dictated political alignment: indeed, in the South, whites went Democrat and blacks went Republican. It was less because the Democrats were "left" and more because they had emerged early on as defenders of the racial order in the South.

It has to be considered that there were plenty of liberal Republicans in favor of government intervention for the public good, such as Theodore Roosevelt. In the same way, there were plenty of conservative Democrats. The New Deal coalition that emerged from the Depression era was only moderately left, supporting economic populism, and even then, it was filled with conservative elements that wanted to limit how far it went, to say nothing of how Southern Democrats required the concession that they be free to keep Jim Crow in their states.

It was only after the Civil Rights era that the Democrats started to really become "the left," as it started to move towards social liberalism as much as fiscal liberalism and left wing foreign policy. Even then, that wasn't completed until several decades later, creating the polarized time we are in now.

18 hours ago, Meta77 said:

I assure you I know more about politics then you.

I can have dinner with George W. Bush, but that doesn't give me an understanding of his Presidency, its consequences, what led up to it, etc.

By contrast, Nepenthe has regularly brought historical and sociological data into these kinds of discussions; I can't remember the last time she brought in her personal anecdotes, even though I imagine she would have plenty relevant to the topic.

And ultimately, data will always trump personal anecdotes. A white man may be a victim of a black mob or not be hired by a black employer because he is white, but that is not evidence of widespread violence and discrimination against whites.

1 hour ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Yeah, because there's a multitude of white supremacist far-right terrorists out there actively committing violence to achieve a political,

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/18/white_extremist_murders_killed_at_least_60_in_u_s_since_1995.html?cq_ck=1486485587473

Not necessarily white supremacists, but there are plenty of right wing terrorist attacks on US soil.

Quote

rioting in the god damned street,

Most BLM protests remain peaceful, it's just violent riots make for better press. The media is very biased on this issue, which makes it hilarious that it's called "left."

In addition, as a trend, of course the left has more visible violence, because the right can more easily hide behind the state for its violence. The state being an organ for maintaining the status quo, it is going to be objectively right wing pretty much all of the time. Even a supposedly left wing government is going to be very right compared to the rest of the left.

But back to the point: BLM person shoots cop, he's a rioter. Cop shoots BLM person, he was just doing his job. See how the perception shapes reality?

The right doesn't need to riot as often, because they have control of the state. They are free to imprison, suppress, impoverish, or outright kill people through the law. Rioting doesn't make such sense from a strategic perspective (as it only entrenches attitudes), but I can certainly see why one might think it's the way forward. Peace and democracy provide gradual reform, but why should a person need to wait until long after they're dead to have equality?

Quote

and are actively funded by individuals that actively seek to undermine our society. I just see them all over the place.

Much like how you see the many murders committed in America, rather than the vast majority of people who aren't killed or killing each other.

We tend to focus on the bad.

1 hour ago, shdowhunt60 said:

It only proves that he only won against JonTron, because JonTron's never done this sort of thing before.

JonTron is also a complete moron, so that probably helped.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

It's amazing how some folks are willing to try and write off the full truth and facts without even providing their own when it comes to stuff like spouting nonsense trying to equalize BLM of all things to terrorism. You'd think at some point they'd realize how stupid it makes them look or how much it hurts their potential reputation. 

Both here and with Jon Tron himself. 

[CleverSonicUsername]

Since this is actually making the rounds on gaming and tech related news sites, I wonder what the long term impact of his comments are going to be.

From what I've read, he's lost 10k subscribers, which is a drop in the bucket compared to his total sub count. At this point he's pretty much courted the alt-right crowd, which happily followed Milo up to the point where he advocated pedophilia, so Jon probably has viewership on lock. The real punch to the gut would be whether or not other Youtube content creators want to continue working with him. Guys like AVGN ceasing all collaboration, for example. For that matter, if companies like Audible or Loot Crate back away from him.

These are exciting and unfortunate times.

[Tani Coyote]

9 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

It's amazing how some folks are willing to try and write off the full truth and facts without even providing their own when it comes to stuff like spouting nonsense trying to equalize BLM of all things to terrorism. You'd think at some point they'd realize how stupid or makes them look or how much it hurts their potential reputation. 

Both here and with Jon Tron himself. 

Then there's the real point in all this:

Let's assume for a moment BLM was some massive terrorist organization.

Why is it that so many Americans assume any such violence happens in a vacuum? Why is it not contemplated that perhaps all of BLM's actions are caused by something that people outside the movement are in a position to fix?

Of course, one has to do serious mental gymnastics to deny modern stratification, but hey, JonTron did it the moment he said "lol there's no way there's racism in the justice system." The double down mentality in response to criticism is rotting this nation to the core.

[CleverSonicUsername]

6 minutes ago, Gregg (Ogilvie) said:

 The double down mentality in response to criticism is rotting this nation to the core.

I could maybe excuse short term doubling down as someone doing a poor job coping with the blowback from their actions. God knows I've done it when I got called on doing something stupid. It's this initial response of "no, no, they're wrong. I know I'm not a bad guy!"

But even someone who has fallen prey to that mistake should at least realize quickly that they're in fact in the wrong. Own it, apologize for it, grow as a person and push forward. Then you got guys like Jontron who just. Keep. Digging. The dude is going to pop out in China at the rate he's going, like some damn Looney Tunes cartoon.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

18 minutes ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

Since this is actually making the rounds on gaming and tech related news sites, I wonder what the long term impact of his comments are going to be.

From what I've read, he's lost 10k subscribers, which is a drop in the bucket compared to his total sub count. At this point he's pretty much courted the alt-right crowd, which happily followed Milo up to the point where he advocated pedophilia, so Jon probably has viewership on lock. The real punch to the gut would be whether or not other Youtube content creators want to continue working with him. Guys like AVGN ceasing all collaboration, for example. For that matter, if companies like Audible or Loot Crate back away from him.

These are exciting and unfortunate times.

Not to mention how this is looking like it could heavily affect the status of NormalBoots.

[CleverSonicUsername]

Just now, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

Not to mention how this is looking like it could heavily affect the status of NormalBoots.

Is Peanut Butter Gamer still part of Normal Boots? Because I recall him disavowing Jon a few months back (though asserting the break in their friendship was not specifically due to his Twitter rants.) That would at least indicate to me that people close to him are starting to push away. It wouldn't surprise me if people within the Normal Boots network do the same.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

As far as the general public knows,  yep,  he's still on Normal Boots,  but hasn't really posted much there on the homesite lately. 

Considering a lot of the mindsets of other members there such as Projared too,  yeah,  things ain't looking good for Jon Tron  and good riddance at that.

[Nepenthe]

3 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Yeah, because there's a multitude of white supremacist far-right terrorists out there actively committing violence to achieve a political, rioting in the god damned street, and are actively funded by individuals that actively seek to undermine our society.

There actually is a federal white nationalist infiltration of law enforcement for the sake of terrorism against blacks and Latinos that the FBI is investigating... well, was investigating, because every time the FBI makes remarks about right-wing white nationalist violence currently being the greatest political threat in America, white people get mad about it for some strange reason. Hmm.

3 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

I just see them all over the place.

This is what we call white privilege- the assumption that what you experience is the universal experience of everyone else in the country.

[Meta77]

His latest video has nearly 2 million views and has still growing sub numbers. He may have lost a few collabs but honestly he will be fine.

[Badnik Mechanic]

2 hours ago, Meta77 said:

He may have lost a few collabs but honestly he will be fine.

Shame.

[Meta77]

5 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Shame.

Shrugs eh at the of the day I doubt he will care what anyone think for and against him. I got my job. I got my switch. And I'm getting mass effect. His life affects mine in no way besides some laughs at his early stuff like goosebumps

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 minute ago, Meta77 said:

I got my job. I got my switch. And I'm getting mass effect. His life affects mine in no way besides some laughs at his early stuff like goosebumps

Goodbye then.

[Indigo Rush]

17 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

early stuff like goosebumps

Goosebumps? Early? DinoCity and Stairfax Temperatures were where it's at.

I've been watching JonTron longer than I thought, and given the latest debacle, I'm glad I stopped. I'm not going to try to justify my unsubbing entirely on this mess, his videos have legitimately stopped being funny to me as of late. The usage of his out-of-context reaction clips against him is probably my favorite thing to come out of this, though.

 

[Meta77]

21 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Goodbye then.

Lol I'm not going anywhere by a long shot. I enjoying reading what people "wish" or "want" to happen to him. But deep down know none of us have even a smidget of power on anything he does

1 minute ago, Indigo Rush said:

Goosebumps? Early? DinoCity and Stairfax Temperatures were where it's at.

I've been watching JonTron longer than I thought, and given the latest debacle, I'm glad I stopped. I'm not going to try to justify my unsubbing entirely on this mess, his videos have legitimately stopped being funny to me as of late. The usage of his out-of-context reaction clips against him is probably my favorite thing to come out of this, though.

 

Dinnnnnocity. Yea his very way stuff was great.  But I'll agree to that like most yt personalities he is no longer the funny guy he used to be. Fame will do that to you

[KHCast]

That's the sad reality of famous people 99% of the time. They never truly feel the whip no matter the actions they do. They can live their lives ignoring the negative and acting like they did nothing wrong and like were the unreasonable crazy l ones. Doesn't change that they're shit tho objectively. (Though maybe in jontrons case maybe people in his family and close friends will ostrisize him and not include him in things.)

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

12 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Lol I'm not going anywhere by a long shot. I enjoying reading what people "wish" or "want" to happen to him. But deep down know none of us have even a smidget of power on anything he does

SO your hobby is trying to put people down with the mentality that no matter what they do, their voices won't be heard.

That's.....sad if that's truly your main reason for sticking around and making pitifully lame taunts.

[Meta77]

14 minutes ago, KHCast said:

That's the sad reality of famous people 99% of the time. They never truly feel the whip no matter the actions they do. They can live their lives ignoring the negative and acting like they did nothing wrong and like were the unreasonable crazy l ones. Doesn't change that they're shit tho objectively. (Though maybe in jontrons case maybe people in his family and close friends will ostrisize him and not include him in things.)

I think vh1 said it best years ago in a I love 90s special. You can say or do any dumb shit you want. Long as your rich or famous it won't matter. But that's the line people have to cross and balance being famous  does not mean you have to change but many do for whatever reason. I don't fully grasp it

7 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

SO your hobby is trying to put people down with the mentality that no matter what they do, their voices won't be heard.

That's.....sad if that's truly your main reason for sticking around and making pitifully lame taunts.

I never said I put anyone down gitta here with that. I simply said our opions affect him none if any.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

4 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I never said I put anyone down gitta here with that. I simply said our opions affect him none if any.

Actions speak louder than words.

Ignoring your mockery tone when you stated you "enjoyed reading" other people's opinions, when you actually post it's in a rude tone that can't even bother to debate against that which you often foremost disagree with before then just retreating off on the "lol why even bother debating if *insert x's* followers are just gonna support them endlessly and retaliate?" routine.

The pattern speaks for itself honestly.

[Meta77]

6 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

Actions speak louder than words.

Ignoring your mockery tone when you stated you "enjoyed reading" other people's opinions, when you actually post it's in a rude tone that can't even bother to debate against that which you often foremost disagree with before then just retreating off on the "lol why even bother debating if *insert x's* followers are just gonna support them endlessly and retaliate?" routine.

The pattern speaks for itself honestly.

I've been around on this site and internet in general to post in a how you say "nice " way sometimes.  I may come off mean or jerk like but typically don't mean to. I simply look read and quick post before going back to working on my task at work.  typically don't bother to think how it sounds.

But let's say you say I retreat ok than tell me what's to debate than. Tell me what you want to happen to him them tell me chances you think it will happen. Noting against you but really what are you expecting him to get on his knees and say sorry he hurt people's feelings? It just won't happen.  once you've become as popular as him it won't matter. Now if he got put down by all his followers than yes something could be done.  But it's not going to. Not that I'm saying I'm defending him but that it's like people in any walk in life. Once you hit a certain threshold if power and game there's little you can do against them

DInnnocity.

[KHCast]

Well I mean it's not unrealistic to expect companies, partners, close friends and sponsors to wanna sever ties with a flat out racist

[Meta77]

7 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Well I mean it's not unrealistic to expect companies, partners, close friends and sponsors to wanna sever ties with a flat out racist

No this is expected. Sometimes. Many people to save face will say they did not know thing's but those close I'm sure knew he had some of these views.  honestly I'd wish he stayed like he was doing old game and movie things before the fame got to him. Just like so many other YouTube stars

[Tornado]

On 3/14/2017 at 4:36 AM, Conando said:

It really baffles me that the son of Middle Eastern immigrants can be so out of the loop with how bullshit the alt-right ideology is.

On 3/13/2017 at 6:09 PM, Solly said:

He's the son of two Iranian immigrants. It's absurd that he can think some of this shit.

First/second generation immigrants and people from the Middle East being two groups well known for their liberal and inclusionary viewpoints, apparently

 

[shdowhunt60]

5 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

 every time the FBI makes remarks about right-wing white nationalist violence currently being the greatest political threat in America,

 

Yeah, funny how we never fucking see any of this. What's the FBI got to say about this?

Quote

Domestic right-wing terrorist groups often adhere to the principles of racial supremacy and embrace antigovernment, antiregulatory beliefs. Generally, extremist right-wing groups engage in activity that is protected by constitutional guarantees of free speech and assembly. Law enforcement becomes involved when the volatile talk of these groups transgresses into unlawful action.

Oh no! The horror! They're using words!

Quote

Right-wing groups continue to represent a serious terrorist threat. Two of the seven planned acts of terrorism prevented in 1999 were potentially large-scale, high-casualty attacks being planned by organized right-wing extremist groups. 

Yes, because that's totally relevant in [CURRENT YEAR].

None of these groups are remotely relevant today. Penthe, you do realize that this testimony was posted in 2002, right? That's 15 god damned years ago. I was still playing Pokemon. And even in the breadth of this article, they describe left-wing terrorist groups in far more detail than any right wing ones.

Quote

Anarchists and extremist socialist groups—many of which, such as the workers’ world party, reclaim the streets, and carnival against capitalism, have an international presence—at times also represent a potential threat in the United States. For example, anarchists, operating individually and in groups, caused much of the damage during the 1999 WTO ministerial meeting in Seattle.The third category of domestic terrorism, special interest terrorism differs from traditional right-wing and left-wing terrorism in that extremist special interest groups seek to resolve specific issues, rather than effect widespread political change. Special interest extremists continue to conduct acts of politically motivated violence to force segments of society, including the general public, to change attitudes about issues considered important to their causes. These groups occupy the extreme fringes of animal rights, pro-life, environmental, anti-nuclear, and other movements. Some special interest extremists—most notably within the animal rights and environmental movements—have turned increasingly toward vandalism and terrorist activity in attempts to further their causes.

In recent years, the Animal Liberation Front (ALF)—an extremist animal rights movement—has become one of the most active extremist elements in the United States. Despite the destructive aspects of ALF’s operations, its operational philosophy discourages acts that harm “any animal, human and nonhuman.” Animal rights groups in the United States, including ALF, have generally adhered to this mandate. A distinct but related group, the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), claimed responsibility for the arson fires set at a Vail (Colorado) ski resort in October 1998, which caused 12 million dollars in damages. This incident remains under investigation. Seven terrorist incidents occurring in the United States during 2000 have been attributed to either ALF or ELF. Several additional acts committed during 2001 are currently being reviewed for possible designation as terrorist incidents.

 

Animal rights? Environmentalism? Anti-capitalism? This is back in 2002, this was pre-Obama. This is before we had the huge glut of left-wing nutcases going on mass shootings, and it's long before Progressive-Democrat Donald Trump decided to run on a conservative ballot.