What's your favorite portrayal of Dr. Eggman?

[Blazey Firekitty]

I actually thought that Robotnik/Eggman was a clown when I first saw Sonic one being played in a computer store. That misconception seems a lot less baseless in hindsight, as apparently the character was always intended(In the games) to have at least some manner of playfulness to what he was doing.

[Kuzu]

I think a problem with Sega Eggman is that the plots don't take him that seriously as a villain. I mean the repercussions of Eggman winning are never present, I mean why do we need to beat Eggman? Why do we need to beat him so badly, these are things that the games never really address and he's just really there so Sonic can stop him.

In the Adventure games, the consequences of Eggman winning are very apparent and the games take him seriously as a threat that needs to be stopped at once.

The Unleashed trilogy, the danger factor is mostly absent; The citizens in Unleashed seem mostly apathetic to his actions, and the threat he poses is mostly ignored. In Colors, the game treats it as just another day of stomping Eggman, rather than stopping a mad man from an attempted genocide of an entire race, in Generations the threat the Time Eater poses is most present, but it doesn't really capitalize on why its dangerous.

Don't get me wrong, Eggman is undoubtedly a threatening villain based on his actions from the past three games alone, the problem is that the games and plot don't treat him as one and convey it to the audience.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Shadic93

[Blazey Firekitty]

I think that people may have gotten used to Sonic saving them over time. There's not much to fear if there's a famous superhero constantly stopping the guy trying to overthrow all the world's governments.

[Vertekins]

Sonic CD's Bad Futures are a pretty good indicator of what would happen if Eggman dominated and what is at stake. Namely a decent future. It says something of Eggman's destruction of the environment when even his own robots can't tolerate the conditions and appear damaged. Imagine what a world like that would spell for living beings.

I'd say Eggmanland in Unleashed also shows what happens when Eggman is allowed to have his own way with no opposition. He built his hell of a theme park right on top of a Gaia Temple!

[Dr. Mechano]

Don't get me wrong, Eggman is undoubtedly a threatening villain based on his actions from the past three games alone, the problem is that the games and plot don't treat him as one and convey it to the audience.

I feel like this is less a fault of Eggman and more a fault of the way other characters are written though.

Like you said, the actions Eggman committed in these three games are super-serious in and of themselves. The problem lies with how apathetic the townspeople seem to feel. I disagree that the heroes don't take him seriously though- As in Colors and Unleashed they clearly do.

To be fair, the townspeople in Sonic Adventure seemed more concerned with trivial everyday life issues than Eggman too- Like confessing a crush to a guy at the burger joint, and assorted other subplots. I think the people of Sonic's world are just so confident in the heroes that they're less fazed by evil threats than they used to be. It's not a detriment to Eggman so much as a plus to Sonic.

Sonic CD's Bad Futures are a pretty good indicator of what would happen if Eggman dominated and what is at stake. Namely a decent future. It says something of Eggman's destruction of the environment when even his own robots can't tolerate the conditions and appear damaged.

This is important actually.

It's my belief that the bad futures of Sonic CD are more a result of negligence than intentional destruction. I don't think Eggman wanted to rule a run-down, shabby-looking planet. I think everything breaking down and falling apart is just the natural result of one man trying to rule an entire world all by himself. It's impossible to do effectively, and the result is what the games clearly and vividly portrayed. A future so ruined that not even Eggman or his robots are happy with it (If you'll notice, some of the Badniks even shift to bearing sadder facial expressions in the bad futures).

It's not my view that Eggman just intentionally polluted Little Planet and filled it with broken machinery on purpose, for its own sake. That seems to go against his style, and it makes more sense that the decrepit future was the result of Eggman being unable to effectively rule his planet.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Dr. Mechano

[Balding Spider]

My favorite version of Eggman So far.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Balding Spider

[Mangoaxe5]

Quick question is there that much difference between the Sonic X comic version of Robotnik and the Sonic X anime version?

I notice that alot of fans consider them to be different.

[Kuzu]

I feel like this is less a fault of Eggman and more a fault of the way other characters are written though.

Like you said, the actions Eggman committed in these three games are super-serious in and of themselves. The problem lies with how apathetic the townspeople seem to feel. I disagree that the heroes don't take him seriously though- As in Colors and Unleashed they clearly do.

To be fair, the townspeople in Sonic Adventure seemed more concerned with trivial everyday life issues than Eggman too- Like confessing a crush to a guy at the burger joint, and assorted other subplots. I think the people of Sonic's world are just so confident in the heroes that they're less fazed by evil threats than they used to be. It's not a detriment to Eggman so much as a plus to Sonic.

Unleashed is a bit better, but not by much. But in Colors they clearly are not taking him seriously, the only scene where Sonic actively attacked Eggman was during the Tails Mind control scene, and that's quickly forgotten. Its scenes like that and Sonic's reaction after he becomes a Werehog, that confirm Eggman is the real deal. A good way to show Eggman is serious is if Sonic starts taking him seriously, then you know shit is about to get real.

Quick question is there that much difference between the Sonic X comic version of Robotnik and the Sonic X anime version?

I notice that alot of fans consider them to be different.

The comic has El Gran Gordo, that is all. but seriously, the Eggman of the comics has a bit more depth in that he's presented as wanting to genuinely want to be viewed as a hero by the public, it makes him more human and easier to relate with as a character. He just wants some praise as a good person.

[Toby]

Quick question is there that much difference between the Sonic X comic version of Robotnik and the Sonic X anime version?

I notice that alot of fans consider them to be different.

Mechano explained the differences in the opening post.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Toby Barrett

[Dr. Mechano]

Quick question is there that much difference between the Sonic X comic version of Robotnik and the Sonic X anime version?

I notice that alot of fans consider them to be different.

There's a lot of difference, yes. Aside from being separate continuities, there are a lot of personality divergences between the two.

First, let's talk about what's the same between them.

Both versions of X Eggman are incredibly over-the-top mad scientists. Both versions are, at their core, pretty good people. Both versions have a friendship with their minions, and both versions have a respectful enmity with Sonic. (Also, both versions are the best part about their respective series)

The differences are subtle, but noteworthy:

X Anime Eggman is a villain through and through, no matter how many redeeming qualities he may have. His end goal is world domination, and he never- even for a moment- wavers on this front.

X Comic Eggman's motivation differs from X Anime Eggman. While he does want to conquer the world, it's more like a means to an end. His motive is not power, per se, but love and adoration. He wants to be praised, adored, revered by his public- And on several occasions he's been willing to do genuinely good deeds just to feel the rush of public approval, with no ulterior motives. El Gran Gordo started as an evil scheme, but quickly spiralled out of control, with Eggman "becoming the mask," so to speak, and embracing his heroic persona. When Sonic's about to unmask him, Eggman begs him not to, wanting fully to remain a beloved public figure. Sonic, in a moment of kindness, lets him have his wish- Though he'll be pushed back into villainy later.

In one issue, Eggman and Sonic switch brains by accident. You would think this would lead to Eggman trying to take over the world with Sonic's powers, but he doesn't. He actually decides that- now that he's Sonic- he'll enjoy the life of fame and fun that he's always envied the hedgehog for having. He lounges around basking in the glory of Sonic's fame, and enjoys every minute of being the hero, Sonic the Hedgehog. He even tries to genuinely save the day to keep up the charade, and there's not a hint that he wanted anything else from it.

Later, when the secret organization S.O.N.I.C.X. makes Vector into a giant monster, Eggman tries to stop it in order to get the people of Station Square to praise him for his awesomeness. It doesn't work.

Point being, the anime version of Eggman may want attention, but power is still his primary goal and he's always been after control of the world. The comic version, by contrast, just wants to be the center of attention in whatever way he can get it- Whether that's from world domination or hiding behind the mask of a superhero persona, he doesn't care. It really makes you wonder why he never just reformed to become a hero full-time.

This is one aspect about X comic Eggman I love. He wants, so badly, to be loved and appreciated, and he'll do whatever it takes to have that need met, and he gets a real rush from being good because- well- being good feels good. The comic was cancelled before Ian could implement all his ideas, but another Gordo arc was among them. What could've come of it? It's not sure, but I think if any canon version of Eggman could have feasibly reformed and straightened out his life to use his genius for good, this guy had the likeliest shot of eventually doing it.

X comic Eggman's is a complex case. I think I'll let this final excerpt from the comic speak for itself:

Edited November 7, 2011 by Dr. Mechano

[Mangoaxe5]

Ok does this mean the Sonic X comic is not canon with the anime?

Edited November 7, 2011 by Darkfox

[Dr. Mechano]

Ok does this mean the Sonic X comic is not canon with the anime?

I think it's pretty obviously a separate continuity.

Think of it this way- Archie is similar to SatAM, but the two were always separate canons. Same here. The X anime and X comic have very different events, and the characterization differs a good deal too. So no, I don't consider them part of the same canon.

[Mangoaxe5]

Ok thanks. I've been thinking of working on creating a topic about all the different Sonic canon's and I was wondering if I should break the Sonic X anime and Sonic X comic into two different canons.

It's confusing since some of the storylines in the Sonic X comic take place inbetween episodes of the anime.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Darkfox

[Scar]

Unleashed is a bit better, but not by much. But in Colors they clearly are not taking him seriously, the only scene where Sonic actively attacked Eggman was during the Tails Mind control scene, and that's quickly forgotten. Its scenes like that and Sonic's reaction after he becomes a Werehog, that confirm Eggman is the real deal. A good way to show Eggman is serious is if Sonic starts taking him seriously, then you know shit is about to get real.

That's because Eggman actually did something worthy of note in Unleashed. He, firstly defeated Super Sonic, broke open the fucking planet, and (albeit accidentally) transformed Sonic into the Werehog. Defeating a Super form is enough to wipe the smile off of anyone's face.

Colours, whilst Eggman did do some pretty vile things, he attempted to do so in secret. There was nothing that Sonic and Co. could see that was evil. Heck given the nature of the theme park, Tails thought he'd actually turned good. The time they start taking him seriously, is when he did something openly frightening, or the effects of his plans were witnessed first hand.

For instance the scene where the Wisp converter was seen showed Sonic looking pretty disgusted and Tails looks visibly horrified. Then there is the final Scene where Eggman is in a giant scary-looking (in the context of the series) machine.

Generations is an oddball (plot spoilers within).

Eggman wasn't known to be behind anything till the very end. Sonic and Sonic were as smug as usual, until both of them were curb-stomped into the ground by the machine. Their smugness only returned when they became Super.

As far as I'm concerned the Game version of Eggman puts forward an interesting insight towards the Hedgehog-Doctor relationship. Eggman only hates Sonic because he gets in his way and has repeatedly foiled his plans. Resulting in him losing his mental stability. His abhorrence with Sonic is only because Sonic is actively stopping him from succeeding.

In SatAM, it confused me as to why Robotnik hated Sonic so much, considering he'd already taken over the world. Sonic was a part of a larger movement, and whilst he was the biggest weapon, at least in SatAM, he was probably the smallest threat to Robotnik. Sonic in that show was like a missle with no lauch plans and target details. He was nothing without the Freedom Fighters, just as Nuke is nothing without a target to hit and a guidance system. So then, why did Robotnik fixate on Sonic. Surely his enimity would be better suited towards Sally, who was pretty much running the whole show. It felt like he hated Sonic simply because that's what the source material stated.

And as for Sonic, I reckon he doesn't so much fear Eggman, insomuch as he fears the things Eggman is capable of. As long as Eggman doesn't do anything truely frightening or is passive, Sonic retains his trademark attitude to give himself a psychological advantage. As soon as Eggman actively lays the beat-down, then Sonic shifts into serious mode.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Scar

[Mangoaxe5]

I have warmed up to Archie's verison of Eggman since Ian has taken over.

Archie's verison of Robotnik has gone through alot of changes.

When Robotnik Prime first appeared in the comic he was a silly villain who acted more like his AOSTH counterpart then his Satam one. It wasn't till "Endgame" where he was written to be a more serious villain. And at the end of "Endgame" he died.

Then RoboRobotnik came to Mobius Prime. Right off the bat he was a more serious threat then Robotnik Prime. Plus he killed the Sonic in his zone so you knew that he was not meant to be taken lightly.

He's later deroboticized. At this point he kind of becomes a joke. In one storyline he tries to kill Mina just because he doesn't like her music.

Ian slowly built him back up into a threat again. And in issue 175 Eggman destroyes Knothole and beats the crap out of Sonic.

After this Sonic turns things around and Eggman starts to lose his mind, and in issue 200 he goes complety insane.

He later gets his santy back, but he now has mood swings.

He seems to go from being scary to silly and back again at the drop of a hat.

I guess this is Ian's way of trying to please both the fans who want Eggman to be a threat, and those who like him to be more goofy.

[Dr. Crusher]

Game Roboteggnikman and Archie Eggman (not Robotnik) are the ones for me.

In terms of non-game related incarnations, I will always love AoStH Robotnik and OVA Robotnik, but the one with the most personally appreciated traits is Archie Eggman. Which is surprising, seeing how I otherwise don't care much at all for what Archie has/had brought to the table. (Except for Mammoth Mogul. The world needs more muscle-bound mammoth gods in suits and ties.)

The primary reason is shallow and predictable if you know me - I shamelessly like my Robotniks and Eggmans and Ivos/Julians to be, without the card carrying part, complete and utter dicks with little-to-no redeeming points in sight. Preferably the of the Knight Templar "I am fucking insane and genuinely think what I do is right"

see: Pokemon's Ghetsis, Disney's Frollo

, but as long as he's a heartless rapscallion, I'm good. But at the same time he should still be the Badnik-making, ever-grinning, always on the move scientist we see in the games, and not a standard sit-in-lair baddie that just rages all the time. Archie Eggman, in my book, achieves this. He's still got the robots, he's still got the fantastic fortresses and grand plans... but a heart? Morality? Pfft, never heard of it. He couldn't care less about who gets directly or indirectly hurt, or what gets destroyed, or any consequences at all for that matter. If it benefits his plan(s), he'll do it without skipping a beat. No hesitation. No second thoughts. No bullshit. He's Dr. Eggman, and he approves of this echidna genocide. Like a boss.

In a nutshell, he's the kind of guy who nonchalantly creates machines of creative-yet-frightening destruction while playing snooker and eating a sandwich. This is the man all strive to become, and if possible, surpass.

Of course, being the original, I always loved the games' version too, but especially starting with Unleashed. It's probably unintentional on SEGA's part, but the implication that Robotnik's slowly growing more and more sadistic is, unsurprisingly, making me very, very happy. Even without this point, his many acts of evil put a smile on my face. Face spaceships? Use corporations to send robots to houses? Use robot pirates to claim wizard scepters? Enslave entire alien species and turn some of them insane? Break apart the planet twice? Indirectly force the hero into beating the shit out of his new Gizoid friend?

Team up with past self to create a robot cleverly disguised as an incomprehensible demon and use said robot to pull a Superboy on Sonic's timeline and also turn the hero's pals into statues?

Oh yes. That's what I like. He started with a checking wrecking ball, and he hasn't looked back.

So yes. Games and Archie Eggman. Followed by AoStH Rrrrrrrrobotnik and OVA "Pain in My Egg" Robotnik.

For the record, I have nothing against non-monstrous villains, Anti-Villain or otherwise. I just happen to prefer Robotnik not being one of them.

Unleashed/Colors/Generations Eggman

They finally nailed what he's supposed to be, an eccentric evil scientist who can blow the planet to pieces one minute, and then be eating a subway sandwich the next. A man who has FUN in being evil and tormenting millions of innocent people/animals/aliens. That's the ideal Eggman in my book

Archie Eggman: By far the most ruthless version of the doc yet. He's basically Game Eggman taken up to eleven. He bombs entire cities, guns down innocent people, and drains their life force, and the creepy part of it all is how jovial he is when he's doing it. He shows little to none of the human qualities of Sonic X, but still stays interesting for just how utterly depraved he is, there are time when I'm genuinely afraid of him, and those red eyes, dear god those eyes.

Or for the tl;dr version, these two.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Dr. Crusher

[Danj86]

Having never read an Archie comic, I couldn't possibly comment on how the Doc is in them.

So, for me, my favourite portrayal of Eggman has to be from the games. He is quite amazing when you analyse his behaviour, for instance, when properly motivated, he can run as fast as Sonic. (Sonic 2 & Sonic & Knuckles.) When he's not trying to conquer the world, he'll mess with Sonic and Co just for kicks. (Sonic Shuffle.) He can be quite charming when he wants to be. (Sonic 06.) But when nobody is around, he'll scratch his butt. (Sonic Adventure 2.) He's pretty light footed for a big guy. (Sonic Riders.) He has no problem asking for help from an outside source. (Sonic Rush/Adventure, Adventure 1 & 2, Generations.) And he's capable of being seriously bad@$$. (Sonic Adventure 2 & Battle.) As well as take advantage of a situation. (Sonic Chronicles.)

Something else I've noticed is perhaps we're seeing Eggman's character develop the most. He was so close on Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, but failed miserably on Sonic Heroes, Shadow The Hedgehog & Sonic 06. That we are now seeing him becoming more unstable and clownish in resent years. Because of this, he's become more dangerous by successfully having his own empire twice and twice setting a trap for Sonic. He used to think of Sonic as an annoyance, but now he seems to be spending more time trying to eliminate our favourite blue mascot.

I look forward to his next master plan.

If anything I've said doesn't ring true to the character of Dr Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik, then I'm sure Dr. Mechano will correct me.

[Old dead account]

Fuck I was just about to make a topic specifically for Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik and his characterization, portrayal and his perception which I believe people take the wrong way.

First of all, my favorite version of him is the Unleashed/Colors/Generations versions. He's crazy madman. Despite being goofball that represents the comedy side of the story too, he's not to be taken lightly at all.

The thing that bothers me the most is that many fans seem to think that just because he's got a more goofy personality now he isn't to be taken seriously anymore. Just because he sounded more menacing in SA2 doesn't mean that he has gotten any less dangerous. Here's his schemes, in SA1 he awakened a god of destruction to clear some space for his robotnikland and when that failed he tried to nuke the place.

SA2 had him take over an abandoned military space station and use the cannon onboard to threaten the world with destruction if they don't give in to his demands. And lets not forget the infamous gun to Amy's head scene that all the fanboys cum their pants over.

This was supposedly the last time Eggman was a badass or even a threat. No.

After this is when they undeniably DID make him sort of a joke for a while. Heroes had him as a damsel in distress to his own creation, Metal Sonic. Even though Chaos and the biolizard made him their bitch as well he at least had participation in those 2 former stories as a threat. 06 had him kidnap the princess for...something...

Now lets look at Unleashed. This is when his personality became noticeably more goofy, prone to temper tantrums. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that he was any less of a threat than before like so many people seem to think. He actually succeeded in blowing the planet to pieces! all to awaken yet another monster to fuel his Eggmanland. Although ultimately made Dark Gaia's bitch yet again, he still served as a major threat for most of the game. He was a lot more comedic this time around which is probably what made people think he's just a clown. So Wrong.

In Sonic Colors he went as far as to steal some planets, enslave the native Wisps and use them for fuel for his mind control beam that he was going to use to fire at the world to make them all his worshiping slaves. As lighthearted as the story may have been, just imagine if it had been told in Shadow the Hedgehog dark style with Eggman's personality being SRS BSNZ again. Had that been the case then nobody would have made him out to still be a clown. It doesn't matter because regardless, his plan was still global domination. This time he didn't use any Deities to get his plan done.

Now in Generations he's at global domination again but this time is destroying time and space to do it. This time the Deity he uses doesn't make him his bitch and he is in control the entire time. I haven't seen many reactions to this, but I'm willing to bet that he's still a goofy threatless clown in some people's eyes. The excuse I usually get for him not being as badass as before is because he doesn't do things like pointing gun at people's heads anymore because blowing up a planet or enslaving a race is goofy and harmless right? But god forbid that gun he's so badass!!

I hate how people's perceptions are that just because he doesn't sound like a SRS BSNZ villain anymore he's a harmless joke. Goofy villains can be just as dangerous as serious ones. Case in point:

This goofball.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Derpy Hooves

[Mangoaxe5]

The best of Satam Robotnik.

And Robotnik hates 4kids.

[Dr. Mechano]

And Robotnik hates 4kids.

Here are the problems with this video:

Problem the first: 4Kids themselves aren't responsible for Eggman's morality in Sonic X. Regardless of how you feel about them as a dubbing company (I personally think they're pretty terrible), they were- for this scene- completely accurate to the Japanese source material. Blaming 4Kids makes no sense here. Instead, blame Sonic Team, TMS Animation, and the other producers of Sonic X. Furthermore, 4Kids actually makes Eggman less sympathetic than the Japanese version; They unfortunately edited some of Eggman's nicer moments, replacing them with cheesy "stereotypically evil" lines in some of the earlier episodes. If anything, they did the opposite of what this video implies. In other words, Japanese Sonic X has a much kinder Eggman than the dubbed version.

Problem the second: This commits the awful fallacy of implying that "The dark evil merciless Robotnik was turned into that goofy moral Eggman." This is not the case, as I'm sure you're very well aware. The SatAM version of Robotnik is not the game version of Dr. Eggman. Of course, neither is the Sonic X version. I think X's Eggman is a lot more morally-conscious than Sega's (Which is one reason I like him more than the Sega version), so the two aren't synonymous either. Learn to split continuities. SatAM is not X is not the games.

The video doesn't really work because it relies on flimsy pretenses to get its joke across. It's fine to prefer SatAM and dislike Sonic X as you do, as opinions are opinions, but I feel the very point of the video you posted is ruined by the fact that it depends on a faulty argument to even work.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Dr. Mechano

[Mangoaxe5]

Here are the problems with this video:

Problem the first: 4Kids themselves aren't responsible for Eggman's morality in Sonic X. Regardless of how you feel about them as a dubbing company (I personally think they're pretty terrible), they were- for this scene- completely accurate to the Japanese source material.

Are you sure? Cause I heard that the line about hurting people was added by 4kids.

[Dr. Mechano]

Are you sure? Cause I heard that the line about hurting people was added by 4kids.

You "heard" wrong then.

Dr. Eggman on more than occasion calls out the Metarax for their crass disregard for human life. 4Kids actually made this a bit less obvious in most scenes, changing one instance of Eggman questioning their treatment of people with a more self-centered "But if you destroy everything, you won't have anyone left to rule over!" sort of response. This is actually one of the rare times 4Kids preserved- more or less- the original intent of the scene, with Eggman expressing genuine concern for others' safety and calling out the Metarax for causing them harm.

I'm almost surprised they didn't change it to something else, since they loved playing up Eggman as a greedy coward in the dub. One of his lines of calm leadership in the SA2 arc was changed to a disgruntled "Grandpa, it's one thing to destroy a planet, but destroying your grandson too?" This was typical of the way 4Kids wrote Eggman, usually making him far more of a stereotyped one-dimensional bad guy than the original Japanese version, which was far more sympathetic. The line from this clip, if anything, is a really strange anomaly for 4Kids.

[batson]

The best of Satam Robotnik.

The voice acting is absolutely fantastic, but i do wish they hadn't written so many of his lines to be that clichéd and stereotypical for cartoon villains. But meh, it was the 90's, and at least satAM Robotnik was a nice change of pace from the utterly incompetent villains that ruled 80's and other early 90's cartoons. Oh yeah, and i love the random "shut up snively" line.

[Kuzu]

The voice acting is absolutely fantastic, but i do wish they hadn't written so many of his lines to be that clichéd and stereotypical for cartoon villains. But meh, it was the 90's, and at least satAM Robotnik was a nice change of pace from the utterly incompetent villains that ruled 80's and other early 90's cartoons. Oh yeah, and i love the random "shut up snively" line.

The Joker says hi. God I miss the 90's.

[batson]

The Joker says hi. God I miss the 90's.

He was the exception, not the rule. Most villains in cartoons during first couple of years of the 90's still adhered to the principles of the cartoon villains of the 80's, namely not being the least bit threatening and usually being extremly incompetent. (AoStH-Robotnik would be a good example of this, but i'd say in his case it's cool since the whole show was an extremly lighthearted comedy anyway.)

But even so, yeah, i miss the 90's too.