Discussion of Super Forms(And possibly other alt forms)

[BlazingTales]

Super Shadow has always been a creamy colour different from Sonic, as far as I know:

SA2:

Recent Shadow:

Recent Sonic:

He might have been silver in the orginal SA2 Dreamcast version, and maybe he was gold in Sonic 06, but as far as I can see, he's a lemon-cream colour, rather than Super Sonic's gold.

[ovarloard]

I skipped black knight. What was EX-sonic like? Was his design as kool as DS sonic? crap and generic like S. Silver?

He looks awesome. Excalibur Sonic is my favorite of all Sonic's forms (if that does count as a Super form).

Here's a pic:

[Vertekins]

As much as I really really wanted to like Excalibur-Sonic, it's a pity that to me he doesn't control as awesome as he looks. I love it

because of Excalibur-Sonic's efficiency but as effective as his abilities are, there isn't enough variety. That kinda shot a hole in him as far as liking goes to me. But I still think he looks totally awesome.

My favourite Sonic form is Werehog because he had such depth. You could see this form in all of it's glory because Sonic spent so long in Werehog form. The way he reaps sheer ownage on bosses and even in the critical attacks on enemies is extremely cool to me and he looks awesome too. The very nature of Werehog form made me respect Sonic as a character even more because even though he is (Presumably) the habitat of a sizeable piece of Dark Gaia, his willpower is such that he isn't affected by it. You see normal people acting weirdly with only a few of Dark Gaia's cronies inhabiting them and yet Sonic has Dark Gaia's power inside him for quite a while and is barely mentally affected by it. Sonic even acknowledges during one cutscene that it was Chip's outlook that kept him sane and yet he didn't see himself that it was him and only him that prevented himself losing himself until Chip enlightened him to it.

[ovarloard]

As much as I really really wanted to like Excalibur-Sonic, it's a pity that to me he doesn't control as awesome as he looks. I love it

because of Excalibur-Sonic's efficiency but as effective as his abilities are, there isn't enough variety. That kinda shot a hole in him as far as liking goes to me. But I still think he looks totally awesome.

I don't really judge characters themselves by their gameplay, but I see what you mean.

Though it seems like Sonic has more abilities than you can actually use, such as what he does when you beat the boss. I'm sure he can do more than just what was shown.

[Eternal EX]

Ehh after looking at the pic and vid of Ex-sonic, I dont like Ex sonic. I mean yeah he does have a decent design but still garbage. I prefer werehog or DS sonic. Werehog like verte said, has alot of depth to it. DS sonic was just freaking badass since he didnt require rings to stay in super form. Plus his design was great.

Super shadow (to me) is the best and strongest of all the super form created next to HYPER sonic.

[Dr. Mechano]

It's because he is human.

And why should his humanity be cause for discrimination in any regard, setting the whole super issue aside?

The series started with a hedgehog and a man. To say that animals must always take precedence over humans in the Sonic franchise is unfounded, and not based on any established rules or norms that the series has provided us with. This "humans are less important/strong/capable/etc." mentality that a sizable portion of the fanbase holds simply doesn't sit well with me, as the official media has never made such a statement. The assumption of humanity's weakness is just that- An assumption.

This very assumption leads people to discredit things they see right in front of them- Such as Eggman's quickness on foot or occasional burst of power. The franchise never outright said he didn't have such ability, but the fanon assumption that humans are weaker leads people to simply assume such. Whatever, I don't want to steer this into a debate on the canoninity of Eggman's unusual physical abilities, but the fanon weakening of humans bugs me to no end.

Edited May 5, 2009 by El Gran Gordo

[SuperStingray]

He looks awesome. Excalibur Sonic is my favorite of all Sonic's forms (if that does count as a Super form).

Me too, if only for that unbelievably awesome transformation scene.

And why should his humanity be cause for discrimination in any regard, setting the whole super issue aside?

I don't think it's entirely discrimination as you put it. While it's true that the foundation of the series is both on an animal and a human, the former is really much more of the focus; when people think of the Sonic franchise, human characters aren't normally the first thing to come to mind. At least outside of a select few such as yourself. Now granted, I have nothing against Eggman having a super form because he is human; I think he should be entitled to the same rights as any of the animal characters, but I don't necessarily think all of them would work well in his interest. Edited May 5, 2009 by A Ham Sandwich

[Blacklightning]

And why should his humanity be cause for discrimination in any regard, setting the whole super issue aside?

How many humans can you name that actually HAVE some kind of special ability at all? Off the top of my head, only one (Elise). It's not so much an issue of discrimination so much as the fact that the humans of the series rarely (bordering on never) experience this kind of thing. Admittedly, Virgo's wording is horrific, but that's the way I see things at the moment.

I'm all for a Super Eggman too, but the way history has been running, I can't see it happening anytime soon.

[Diogenes]

To say that animals must always take precedence over humans in the Sonic franchise is unfounded, and not based on any established rules or norms that the series has provided us with.

Er, what?

Don't you think they might be basing that on the fact that nearly all of the series' characters are animals? And that, power-wise, there is exactly one human of any real importance? And that 99 out of 100 times his "power" is in his machines, and that 1-in-100 segment is of questionable canon, at best?

I think they've got a hell of a lot of evidence to say that humans in general are not as powerful as the animals.

This "humans are less important/strong/capable/etc."

Whoah now, there are several very different things in that line, not all of which are relevant here. Are humans important? Certainly, but (rare exceptions aside) they are in spite of lacking any real combat ability or superpowers.

The assumption of humanity's weakness is just that- An assumption.

It's an assumption backed by evidence. What human, aside from Eggman, has shown anything beyond a normal human? What human has the ability to keep up with characters like Sonic, Tails, hell even Cream? Most humans have been nothing more than NPCs with no apparent power. The GUN commander just had basic military training at best, Elise didn't really gain anything from having Iblis inside of her, and whatever power Shahra and Merlina have can be argued to be because they aren't human.

Eggman is an outlier. A very far outlier, considering what we've seen. And based on what we've seen, there is no reason to assume that humans are, in general, viable characters in terms of power. There's also no reason at this point to not make that assumption...if things change down the line, then we revise our assumptions, but that's no reason to not make them in the first place.

[Phos]

*post*

Me too, if only for that unbelievably awesome transformation scene.

This is all I could think of when I saw that.

[Dr. Mechano]

Come now, Phos. Responding to my post for the sole purpose of expressing that you don't think my post is worth responding to, conveyed with naught but an image?

If you're going to call my position silly and facepalm-worthy, which is fine in and of itself, you could at least elaborate. With words.

[Phos]

Come now, Phos. Responding to my post for the sole purpose of expressing that you don't think my post is worth responding to, conveyed with naught but an image?

If you're going to call my position silly and facepalm-worthy, which is fine in and of itself, you could at least elaborate. With words.

It was getting a bit too absurd. There aren't any superpowered humans in the Sonic-verse. The only one shown to be out of the ordinary was Robotnik, who has a massive intellect.

If he were physically comparable to Sonic, he wouldn't be running away from him every time he's in direct opposition to him.

And you know what, the Sonic Drift ending doesn't count. Sonic isn't trying to catch Eggman, because he couldn't do anything to him then, because Eggman didn't really do anything wrong. What's he going to do, rough him for for winning an auto race?

Sonic 3 final boss - Sonic doesn't know where the Master Emerald is, but it becomes obvious when Eggman jumped in his Mech. That would be the first time Sonic used his wits, but not the last (SatSR, remember?)

Sonic 2 final boss - by using Debug mode to unlock the screen, Sonic can easily outrun Eggman. For whatever reason, he was holding back.

[Eternal EX]

This is all I could think of when I saw that.

Haha all that reminded me of is

[Sean]

If anything, I'd love to see Super Eggman as some kind of hidden omake boss (not that the Sonic games are known for their secret levels, though). Eggman's style is indeed to rely on his machines to do most of the work, but Eggman as well as Big are the two super forms I've always wanted to see, if for the sheer novelty and humor of it all.

[Dr. Mechano]

If anything, I'd love to see Super Eggman as some kind of hidden omake boss (not that the Sonic games are known for their secret levels, though). Eggman's style is indeed to rely on his machines to do most of the work, but Eggman as well as Big are the two super forms I've always wanted to see, if for the sheer novelty and humor of it all.

Until then, there's always

Which just might be my favorite episode in the series, rivaling Lifestyles of the Sick and Twisted.

I for one think it's great that Robotnik immediately declares "I feel prettyyyyyy~" upon receiving his new strength.

Edited May 5, 2009 by El Gran Gordo

[Blacklightning]

Elise didn't really gain anything from having Iblis inside of her

Not that it debunks your actual point any, but I'd consider being able to summon a shield capable of destroying enemies and walking on water to be something in the way of a benefit.

If anything, I'd love to see Super Eggman as some kind of hidden omake boss (not that the Sonic games are known for their secret levels, though). Eggman's style is indeed to rely on his machines to do most of the work, but Eggman as well as Big are the two super forms I've always wanted to see, if for the sheer novelty and humor of it all.

Now see, this is what I've always wanted to see out of a Sonic game - some distinct sense of self-parody, or hell, any kind of humour for that matter. What would be cool is if they'd attach this kind of thing to a main game in somewhat the style of a "what-if" scenario, kinda like how DBZ Tenkaichi 2-3 does it (Raditz losing his memory and allying with Goku? Awesome). I'd be laughing my ass off if they pulled a Super Eggy and here he is saying something along the lines of "now why the fuck didn't I think of this before?"

[Gallon]

And why should his humanity be cause for discrimination in any regard, setting the whole super issue aside?

The series started with a hedgehog and a man. To say that animals must always take precedence over humans in the Sonic franchise is unfounded, and not based on any established rules or norms that the series has provided us with. This "humans are less important/strong/capable/etc." mentality that a sizable portion of the fanbase holds simply doesn't sit well with me, as the official media has never made such a statement. The assumption of humanity's weakness is just that- An assumption.

This very assumption leads people to discredit things they see right in front of them- Such as Eggman's quickness on foot or occasional burst of power. The franchise never outright said he didn't have such ability, but the fanon assumption that humans are weaker leads people to simply assume such. Whatever, I don't want to steer this into a debate on the canoninity of Eggman's unusual physical abilities, but the fanon weakening of humans bugs me to no end.

Because in Sonic's world Animals have super powers and humans don't. Face it.

Eggman was fast on foot possibly because of the gameplay.

[Flyboy Fox]

My personal opinion is to agree with that, as I tend to believe that the human characters in the series are of a rather different set than the furries, and are more in line with 'real' humans who do not have super powers.

HOWEVER, it's never been officially stated that humans cannot absorb chaos power and use it to transform into a powered up form. I'd like to believe it will never happen and that only the animal characters have this ability, but I know it can't be ruled out without an explicit statement that it is not humanly possible.

I admit that I'm also in a minority for wanting Tails' Super form to return, if only because I think he would look awesome and because it would right so many of the wrongs that I feel have been stacked against him by removing him from physical combat in so many recent games (or his reliance on weapons when he has two perfectly awesome ones attached right to him). It would give him a chance to be seen as a force of physical combat power again. I don't need him to be as strong as Knuckles or as fast as Sonic, but I would love to see his Super form return at least one more time.

[Blazey Firekitty]

My personal opinion is to agree with that, as I tend to believe that the human characters in the series are of a rather different set than the furries, and are more in line with 'real' humans who do not have super powers.

HOWEVER, it's never been officially stated that humans cannot absorb chaos power and use it to transform into a powered up form. I'd like to believe it will never happen and that only the animal characters have this ability, but I know it can't be ruled out without an explicit statement that it is not humanly possible.

I admit that I'm also in a minority for wanting Tails' Super form to return, if only because I think he would look awesome and because it would right so many of the wrongs that I feel have been stacked against him by removing him from physical combat in so many recent games (or his reliance on weapons when he has two perfectly awesome ones attached right to him). It would give him a chance to be seen as a force of physical combat power again. I don't need him to be as strong as Knuckles or as fast as Sonic, but I would love to see his Super form return at least one more time.

I'll agree that it would be great to see Tails play an important role in physical combat again. Granted, the tech aspect of the character has grown on me a bit, and I thought that Rush Adventure was an example of how to put the character in support role and do it right. But the character was originally interesting to me because he was the Luigi to Sonic's Mario. In other words, Tails could mimic Sonic, and do some of things he could do, but didn't have all of Sonic's abilities, and so had unique abilities of his own to compensate. He was something familiar, yet something different, and that alone made him interesting, without the need for him to be stomping about in transforming mecha.

I'm probably in the minority on this, but I wouldn't mind the implication that humans can at least develop some sort of special power, if not neccesarily super forms. Granted, I prefer the furry/anthro designs visually, and would like to see more of them in terms of run of the mill NPCs. But I like the idea that(With the possible exception of Shadow, who's powers were stated to be a result of science) the special powers the playable animal characters were just kind of a result of who they were, personality-wise. Sonic run fast because he wants to be as free as the wind. Tails flies because he wants gain more confidence and expore more possibilities. Knuckles has claws and Amy has a hammer because they are stubborn and determined. Blaze has flames because she's passionate emotionally, but has trouble controlling that passion.

I like how the animal characters have special ablities...but I think of those abilities coming from who they are inside rather than what they look like. I'd like to think that it'd be possible for someone to have special powers by sharing a similar mindset to the animal characters, one of exceptionally strong will and personality, rather than having to be lucky enough to be born sharing their physical appearence...it that makes sense.;;

[Eternal EX]

But the character was originally interesting to me because he was the Luigi to Sonic's Mario. In other words, Tails could mimic Sonic, and do some of things he could do, but didn't have all of Sonic's abilities, and so had unique abilities of his own to compensate.

Only problem with that is luigi is mario, just taller and wheres green. They are basically a sonic/shadow thing except shadow is anti hero where luigi isnt. But I do see what you mean.

And am I the only one wait for a Luigi game where he sayd "fuck this why does mario get all the attention, and I'm just the sit back puss*?" I could sooo see Luigi becoming a Main threat to the mushroom kingdom. LOL hell it would be a bowser+luigi= hell for mario game.

Edit: for spelling errors. Spell check hates me lol

Edited May 5, 2009 by SHADIC360©

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Because in Sonic's world Animals have super powers and humans don't. Face it.

Until officially said so, speculation can be interpreted in anyway one pleases. And you realize that not all animals in Sonic's world have superpowers, don't you?

And I'd say Eggman's intellegence counts as a major superpower, on the count that the guy is capable of building just about anything he has his mind set on. The guy could've built a weapon capable of blasting Solaris out of existence if Sonic Team let him.

So face the fact that it could go anyway.

Edited May 5, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Viku]

If i ever see Egman in a super form. i think he would be wearing some kind of special armor or something...that would be cool

[Jetronic]

As much as I would like eggman to have his own Super form, unless done right, capes = no D:

Anyway, what about hyper forms? Even though they were just a bonus, we won't be seeing them again right ;( ?

Also, I liked the Dreamcast version of Super Shadow, the silver suited him well, even if it was a graphical glitch. Just wish everyone didn't have to be golden. That color is not that great =P, ok but not great.

[Flyboy Fox]

I wouldn't mind if Eggman had a Chaos energy powered 'Super' suit. Like armour. I would find that much easier to swallow than if he, physically, transformed. It seemed more suited to his way of doing things, in my opinion anyway.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I wouldn't mind if Eggman had a Chaos energy powered 'Super' suit. Like armour. I would find that much easier to swallow than if he, physically, transformed. It seemed more suited to his way of doing things, in my opinion anyway.

Sounds like a perfectly logical compromise to me.