Why is Tails considered physically weak?

[Chaos Warp]

He's nowhere near weak, but you can't expect him to be as strong as Sonic, Shadow, Knuckles, etc. Also, I think it would be cool if he was shown to get stronger over a couple of games, as it has been stated that Sonic trains Tails to run and fight in his spare time.

[Match]

Because he's 8 years old.

[Your Vest Friend]

I'd speculate that he's only weak when the plot demands it, it just so happens that that's been the case a lot lately.

2D Sonic; He stayed roughly the same from MD/GG Sonic 2 up to Sonic Advance 3. In Rush and Rush Adventure, he was too busy working on something else to get in on the fighting. Colours DS is based off the Wii version, so I'd rather look at that version.

Sonic Adventure; Tails had his own gameplay style, he could run around, no probs.

Sonic Adventure 2; The only playable characters originally were Sonic, Knuckles and Eggman. Due to the outcry, Tails had to be fitted in somewhere, and Shadow and Rouge simply filled the other niches so tails was left with the Walker.

Sonic Heroes; Has the same power as any flight type in that game, he's not exactly weak (although he didn't have his tail whip for his lone attack, which is odd as Charmy got a melee attack).

Shadow the Hedgehog; Has as much fighting prowess as any anthro character not called Shadow...or Charmy.

Sonic '06; The plot put so much focus on the male hedgies that other characters were reduced in capability to accomodate, Tails being just one of them.

Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colours; Purely out of keeping Sonic the sole playable character. They had to find a way of keeping Tails at his side without bringing up questions of his own skills warranting a playable bout, so he got nerfed.

Although I have always held the theory that the reason why Tails didn't attempt to fight the Dark Gaian monsters was because they were exuding negative energy that overwhelmed him, much like ordinary NPCs could become distressed and helpless under the influence.

[turbojet]

I, for one, got sick of Sonic Teams pure laziness about his abilities and how similar they were to Sonic's in terms of speed.

I like that they emphasized Sonic's superiority in speed, but if they ever bring Tails back into the gameplay fold, he better play somewhat different than Sonic. He better not be Sonic, colored orange who can hover for 15 seconds. That is lazy as all hell. Arkham City has Catwoman and Batman play and feel differently in terms of combat and abilities. Megaman took strides into making sure that each character wasn't some recolor of Megaman.

I would like Tails to have a similar style of gameplay to Sonic(if they continue with Modern Sonic style), but for one, he better not have speed rivaling Sonic. He can fly. Emphasize that. You'd think the company that made NIGHTS would know how to make a flying mechanic that works, but can't expect too much out of Sonic Team.

Come to think about it. His gameplay would demand a much more open and concrete level.

Edited October 9, 2011 by turbojet

[Diogenes]

The only time I considered him weak was in Unleashed, when he needed Sonic to save his ass from those Gaia montesrs he apparently couldn't defeat himself.

Eight year old kid is afraid of giant fuckoff nightmare monster and army of smaller nightmare monsters.

This is somehow unreasonable?

[Flyboy Fox]

Tails in Sonic Colours was such a "gyah, that COULD have been so awesome!" thing for me. His character was amazing in that game. He was cheerful but realistic, witty and mildly sarcastic, and so playful and pally with Sonic... their dynamic was simply amazing. So, if he'd actually had a chance to be more active, it would have just been the icing on the cake.

I understand why he wasn't playable... but having Sonic have to fight him (or at least get past him to disable Eggman) would have been epic. It wouldn't have even needed to be a long drawn-out boss-type affair, but having Tails block Sonic and/or even knock him back if the player tried to get past him, would have been a really neat little event. I just feel like they wasted potential on that whole mind-control scene. Ah well. At least the dialogue was great.

[Exploder]

Eight year old kid is afraid of giant fuckoff nightmare monster and army of smaller nightmare monsters.

This is somehow unreasonable?

Considering 'I'm not scared, I can do this' happened before? Yes.

[DarkLight]

Except he's battled Eggman's robots before, not evil earth hellspawns that he knew nothing about where they came from or what their strengths and weaknesses are.

[Scar]

Considering 'I'm not scared, I can do this' happened before? Yes.

That was referring to Eggman. It was a one-on-one fight. Here Tails was outnumbered 30-40 to 1. Tails is capable, but he's smart enough to be scared of a large number of monsters (Called "nightmares" mind).

[#EndyGate]

Isn't it just that old "nerds are weak" cliche?

[Nepenthe]

That was referring to Eggman. It was a one-on-one fight. Here Tails was outnumbered 30-40 to 1. Tails is capable, but he's smart enough to be scared of a large number of monsters (Called "nightmares" mind).

One on one battles aren't inherently fair. The mech battles from SA2 where both characters are on an even keel are one thing. Unarmed Tails against a walker that's about 20-30 feet high with bombs, flamethrowers, and shockwave-creating capabilities is another. Any normal child would be afraid in either situation.

[Exploder]

That was referring to Eggman. It was a one-on-one fight. Here Tails was outnumbered 30-40 to 1. Tails is capable, but he's smart enough to be scared of a large number of monsters (Called "nightmares" mind).

Point taken. It's just that when juxtaposed with his relative lack of action before that, it really rubbed me the wrong way. So the problem is still there.

Maybe he could have at least tried to attack, failed and then run away instead.

Edited October 9, 2011 by Exploder

[Diogenes]

Okay, let's break it all down.

Classics: Unless you count Tails Adventure as canon, Tails basically did nothing of note without Sonic. You can play 2 and 3&K as Tails alone, but this clearly is not what happened. We don't know for sure how Tails handled the giant Eggmech and the like, but that cuts both ways. Unless we want to deliberately create a contradiction, considering SA, he likely wasn't a stoic and confident hero.

SA: It's clear he's got confidence issues when Sonic's not around. The whole climax of his story is gathering the courage to fight on his own, rather than relying on Sonic. Note that this is a straight one-on-one with Eggman, not a monster or army of.

SA2: He's grown a bit, become more confident, able to work on his own and strategize for the team. But, he's only ever put up against Eggman, whom he's overcome before. He just blast robots from the comfort of his mech, otherwise.

Heroes: He's teamed up with Sonic (and Knuckles) from start to finish. Not being afraid, even of Metal Overlord, makes sense since he's got his hero nearby.

ShtH: Honestly the game focuses so little on him I'm not sure what to make of it. He's apparently not too scared of the Black Arms to not fight, but beyond that...

'06: Fuck if I can remember anything that happened there. I really can't remember him doing anything of consequence.

Unleashed: So, giant fuckoff nightmare monster and army of smaller nightmare monsters. Is being scared the ideal outcome? No. Is it unreasonable? I think not.

[Nitwit_Speed]

Didn't he also have them inside of his spin in Sonic Adventure? I don't remember the jumping animation, but his rolling animation had them inside. Spinning seems to have evolved from an "I have spines" thing to an "I'm a mobian" thing. When you take away the spin jump and rolling, you're left with a normal platformer. Imagine Big the Cat transversing a Sonic stage ingoring Heroes logic. Pretending genre roulette doesn't excist, we can say we need the spin jump and rolling to be around for Sonic gameplay to be Sonic gameplay.

I don't think it's been as much Tails being physically inferior anymore as it is he never does anything physically. In Sonic Adventure, he followed by Sonic as closly as his Tails would allow him. By the time we got to Colors, he sat on his rump in Tropical Resort while Sonic was tearing the park apart. Being the weakest doesn't make you incapable, and i'm sure if he had to hold his own he could, unless Sonic was in a twenty-mile radius. Then all we need to do is scream his name really loud, don't we, new Tails?

EDIT: Heh, there was a second page... *kicks the air*

Edited October 10, 2011 by firelord767

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Eight year old kid is afraid of giant fuckoff nightmare monster and army of smaller nightmare monsters.

This is somehow unreasonable?

Edited October 10, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Scar]

Don't forget that said eight year old kid disarmed a nuke and went one-on-one with a mechanical death machine with nothing but his bare hands tails...and won.

Or how about the time the same eight year old kid broke into one of the worlds most tightly secured military prisons to break out a framed convict and escaped like it was child's play? Okay, not really "child's play" but he's an eight year old kid committing a VERY illegal act, and he got away with it.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

So?

Doesn't mean he isn't allowed to have fears/phobias. He's a kid after all, just because he's smart enough to be able to disarm an explosive, break and enter a really shit ultra-high-security prison and defeat Eggman, doesn't mean he isn't afraid of the "Boogieman". That giant ass "Fuckoff Nightmare Monster" may well have genuinely frightened him.

[Scar]

Dude, I already made it clear I missed the point of what was being talked about. That was intended to support Diogenes post, but I misread it.

No need to rub it in my face, man.

Sorry, must have missed that edit when we jumped to the next page.

[C.J]

Tails is not weak I'll admit he may not be one of the strongest characters but he's definitely not the weakest of the bunch not forgetting he has the ability to fly and attack, swipe with his two tails (also not forgetting that Dummy Ring attack), he's handy with gadgets, He has the brains and machinery is his speciality I think in a way it makes Tails a unique and special character who is much more different compared to other characters, not too similar or too different just Unique Tails is a great character IMO Good Sidekick only I wish he was more involved in plots and have the natural gameplay like he used to in Adventure I really didn't like Tails' gameplay in SA2. I'm glad he was at least playable again in Sonic Rivals 2 and he was bonding with Sonic just like the old times that's a reason why I love that game.

[Flyboy Fox]

The thing about Tails' reaction in that scene (Unleashed) is that it just seemed... weak. Not that HE was weak, but the scene just didn't seem to have any real thought put into it. It didn't seem like a deliberate effort to point out that Tails is at heart still just a young boy who is probably still scared of the dark. Rather, it came across as a pretty cheap and lazy damsel-in-distress move with no real impact. It would have worked nicely if Tails had a larger role in the game at large - it would have been a nice little quirk to be reminded that, as heroic and brave as he is, he's still afraid of nightmares. But since he was pretty much useless to begin with, the scene had no real impact and gave Tails no positive development at all, making his overall value in the game just seem weaker. It's all about how you play it, folks.

[Blazey Firekitty]

The main problem, IMHO, is Sonic Team has stuck to a "Sonic only" policy for Sonic games over the past few years. Obviously there have been exceptions, but they've all been spin-offs like Black Knight, Chronicles, and Riders. If ST starts to add other playable characters besides Sonic and his alternate forms into new "main series" games, then Tails will have a chance to be portrayed as a physically combative character again.

[Exploder]

If ST starts to add other playable characters besides Sonic and his alternate forms into new "main series" games, then Tails will have a chance to be portrayed as a physically combative character again.

[Milo]

Eight year old kid is afraid of giant fuckoff nightmare monster and army of smaller nightmare monsters.

This is somehow unreasonable?

Edited October 11, 2011 by Zinos

[Scar]

If that's unreasonable, then fighting deadly robot-god-monsters much bigger than those Dark Gaia monsters either bent on world domination or destruction is also unreasonable as well (despite not having a phobia for those for some reason). Same goes for invading air fleets that are hundreds of miles within the air. Even if it's alongside Sonic and/or Knuckles. :|

[Blazey Firekitty]

Maybe. Or, they'll just make him throw ringbombs again.

Though neither of these have been confirmed, as far as I know, if Tails ends up as a semi-playable "co-op" character in Generation, and playable Sonic 4: Episode 2, the ring bombs probably won't show up again for a while.