Mr. Robot

[Teeks]

Gamma had my favorite story in Sonic Adventure. It was very deep and griping stuff for a game that, thus far, was just getting into big storytelling. His death is very sad but very moving and very memorable. I love the character and the gameplay style.

Which is also why he shouldn't come back. He died for a purpose and it left an impact, unlike Shadow whose death would have left an impact if he didn't come back two years later. If the gameplay does come back, I would want it to be with Omega. At least then they wouldn't have to come up with a way for Gamma to be back as Omega still exists. Besides, I actually like Omega. I think he's got a cool design and an interesting enough personality. Plus, his relationship with Shadow fascinates me considering Shadow isn't much of the "friend" type. For the most part.

I didn't like the Gamma or Chaos cameos in Battle, they felt wrong and out of place. Gamma making more sense than Chaos but I still wasn't a fan.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'm not a hardcore Mega Man fan and I don't really follow the fanbase, but I always got the sense that his repeated deaths and resurrections were kind of a joke.

Depends on who you ask, but it isn't something against the character than it is the number of times the developer has done it to the character.

Then again, considering that Zero's been through nothing but wars that last centuries throughout his entire life from his debut in X1 all the way through Zero 4 and even continuing somewhat in ZX.

Legendary Emerald spelled it all out for the most part. Except for this bit...

and then has to kill a human being (Dr. Weil) in order to stop a space colony from crashing, therefor becoming a maverick, and then dying as the colony explodes, leaving behind another love interest to mourn him for the rest of her life.

Actually, to be fair, Dr. Weil was no longer human even before that point, both figuratively and literally. And even more, all the other humans would've wanted Weil dead anyway and would've more than justified Zero killing him to save everyone else on earth.

If anything Dr. Weil was more of a maverick, if not a complete monster that would make Sigma more of a saint, than Zero ever could be. He was the one who caused the war that killed 90% of Reploids, 60% of the humans, and left the world in the sorry state it was in during the series.

He died for a purpose and it left an impact, unlike Shadow whose death would have left an impact if he didn't come back two years later.

Oh this little chestnut...

You know, for a character who died a left an impact, he is one of the least mentioned characters throughout this fanbase. Contrast that with Shadow who came back and made more of an impact (both good and bad) than Gamma and is more popular to boot even to this day. Do I need to spell it out any further? Because there's more detail than that.

I find it amusing how there are people who use Gamma as an example for Shadow like this and yet the reality is a complete opposite of that. Even more considering this is the first topic on the SSMB since 2005 (if not earlier), that is made specifically for Gamma and Gamma alone.

Edited October 5, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Diogenes]

I wouldn't say that Gamma had much of an impact on the series, but his story had emotional weight, and its ending was satisfying, in part because of his death.

Shadow is an example of what you risk by taking back that death.

[Teeks]

Okay, fine, his death left more of an impact on me than Shadow's did.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I wouldn't say that Gamma had much of an impact on the series, but his story had emotional weight, and its ending was satisfying, in part because of his death.

Edited October 5, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Teeks]

Gamma not being talked about more or as much as Shadow could have something to do with the fact that he hasn't been in a game in seven years where as Shadow still appears regularly, as well as starred in one of the most notoriously bad games in the Sonic series.

[Diogenes]

I still find it odd on how a character who had a well made story for the game gets less attention than one character who had a less than positive reception, two characters who were so-so to okay, and two characters who were actually percieved positively all in the same game.

First off, hate is easy. Trust me, I am intimately familiar with it. It's easy to work yourself up talking about all the bad in a thing, while for something good it's hard to go past "that was good" "yup" "really good" "yup". Controversy is another thing; pretty much everyone is at least okay with Gamma, if they don't actively like him, whereas with Shadow you've got fanboys on one side and haters on the other, and it's obvious they're going to clash. Plus, Gamma just hasn't been around much since his death (for obvious reasons). You don't hear much talk about Tikal, either, for the same reason.

Not just taking back that death, but by also dragging the character's development from that point on in the mud when you don't know what the hell your doing to justify or work around bringing them back. And adding extra junk on it too boot.

That's in part a consequence of bringing him back. I'm not saying it's automatic, but bringing back a character whose story is finished requires them to take that risk of changing the character.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Gamma not being talked about more or as much as Shadow could have something to do with the fact that he hasn't been in a game in seven years where as Shadow still appears regularly, as well as starred in one of the most notoriously bad games in the Sonic series.

12 years. SA1 came out in 1999, and if you're including Battle (as I would assume), not many people have actually played it so take that how you will.

Even then, it would be stretching things to claim that a character would have a bigger impact when it's been years since that character has been involved and hasn't been brought up since, wouldn't it?

First off, hate is easy. Trust me, I am intimately familiar with it. It's easy to work yourself up talking about all the bad in a thing, while for something good it's hard to go past "that was good" "yup" "really good" "yup".

I would know too, being in the flames of the fandom during the Dark Ages.

Plus, Gamma just hasn't been around much since his death (for obvious reasons). You don't hear much talk about Tikal, either, for the same reason.

Actually, I hear more about Tikal than I do Gamma. No it's not much, but she has been brought up more than the Gamma has. Then there's a matter of Blaze, who has only been in one mainstream game and two handhelds...and the spin-offs, but I'm rambling at this point.

That's in part a consequence of bringing him back. I'm not saying it's automatic, but bringing back a character whose story is finished requires them to take that risk of changing the character.

That's a bit of an oddball considering Shadow was already changed before his ambiguous death, but we are getting off topic with this.

Edited October 5, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

Gamma not being talked about more or as much as Shadow could have something to do with the fact that he hasn't been in a game in seven years where as Shadow still appears regularly, as well as starred in one of the most notoriously bad games in the Sonic series.

Well its kind of hard to be in a game when you're dead. I think what CSS is trying to say is that, Gamma's death didn't leave that big of an impact as much as Shadow probably because Shadow had more of a connection with the main cast unlike Gamma who's only real connection was with Amy.

I haven't formally posted in this topic, but no he shouldn't be brought back, why? Shadow, that's why, he's the perfect example of the consequences of bringing a character back and dragging their story arc longer than what's needed, I don't mind that they brought Shadow back, but good god did they destroy his backstory, it started out simple, then turned to shit and if Gamma comes back I feel they will do the same, especially since he served his purpose in his game. Shadow's death was ambiguous enough, and his character was versatile enough to come back and at least be given a purpose, with Gamma he had a single minded goal and he achieved said goal.

Plus we kind of have Omega as a constant nod.

[Teeks]

12 years. SA1 came out in 1999, and if you're including Battle (as I would assume), not many people have actually played it so take that how you will.

Even then, it would be stretching things to claim that a character would have a bigger impact when it's been years since that character has been involved and hasn't been brought up since, wouldn't it?

I was referring to Battle when I said seven years, yes. Even if people didn't play it, it was still technically Gamma's last appearance of sorts.

I was just saying, perhaps the reason people don't talk about him anymore is because he simply isn't relevant anymore. But just because a character isn't relevant, doesn't mean it can't have a lasting impression on somebody. I, personally, think Gamma's death had more of impact and was pulled off better than Shadow's was. Whether you agree or not, that's all well and good. I'm just saying, for me, that's how I feel.

[Chaos Warp]

I liked his gameplay in Sa1, but like people are saying, as a character, there is no reason for him to come back. He had his little arc, he served his purpose, he pretty much filled his destiny.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I was just saying, perhaps the reason people don't talk about him anymore is because he simply isn't relevant anymore.

Edited October 5, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Teeks]

Yes, I've noticed. I'm not trying to cause debates or arguments or whetever, I just like to voice my opinion and be a part of the conversation. Especially if it involves characters I truly like, such as Gamma and Shadow.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Teeks

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Well, good. I think things have been settled here.

[Kuzu]

I dunno if anyone reads Archie that much, but in there Gamma actually lives on within Omega, before Omega blew him to bits(It makes sense in context), he merged his personality with Omega's giving him the same self awareness that Gamma had. i thought that was an interesting way of technically killing gamma but having his spirit live on within another character.-

[Chibinuva]

Well, he died, hasn't been in a game since 1999, and we have Omega. Maybe if they brought back Omega, making his gameplay a combination of the best parts of the bots' levels, then that might work. The only way Gamma could come back would be if Gamma's bird came back and took over Omega, or another robot, but since the robots are relying on their own power instead of using animals, I don't know if that would work. I admit it could be an interesting story arc, if done correctly.

[Rinzler]

I dunno if anyone reads Archie that much, but in there Gamma actually lives on within Omega, before Omega blew him to bits(It makes sense in context), he merged his personality with Omega's giving him the same self awareness that Gamma had. i thought that was an interesting way of technically killing gamma but having his spirit live on within another character.-

Hence why I think that Omega should find Gamma's files thus making him live on in Omega.

[Diogenes]

What good does that do, besides "ooh Gamma~! <3"?

[Rinzler]

What good does that do, besides &quot;ooh Gamma~! &lt;3&quot;?

I was thinking that his feelings towards Gamma after this would give him some much needed character development.

[Chaos Walker]

Ok, I understand (and agree with) the idea of bringing back gama possibly ruining him but... Is it really so bad to see him at all? I mean including him in the next Sega All Stars would make me actually consider buying one of them.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Chaos Walker

[Diogenes]

I'm not really fond of using dead characters even in noncanon spinoffs.

Plus there's already plenty of living characters to think of first.

[Chaos Walker]

Eh, I can kinda see where you are coming from with that... though I remember hoping Gama or Metal Sonic would be in black knight as a walking suit of armor or something.

[Gamenerd]

While I don't personaly support bringing back Gamma, I do think the writers could BS it in. First of all, that bird only flew away. It wasn't gunned down or anything, and for all we know it's still out there. Secondly, I don't think the animals are directly connected to the robot's consciousness. Gama's parts were used in Chaos gamma, and Omega. I think a clever (or stupid) writer could easily work with those.

Wasn't that the entire point of his plot? It was my understanding that the E-series were standard robots without emotions, that were given consciousness through the animals inside them. Once Gamma realised this, he decides to 'save' his 'brothers' - that is, releasing his Flicky relatives from the soulless shells that contain them.

Nobody gets killed in Gamma's story; Gamma doesn't 'die', he is saved. Gamma doesn't kill any of his robot brothers, he saves them. Nothing of value is lost because the E-series lives on in the Flickies they release upon destruction.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Gamenerd

[Diogenes]

It's not really clear where robot ends and bird begins. There's obviously some kind of connection, else we wouldn't have Gamma having flashes of the flicky's memories, but Gamma acts like a robot, not a bird.

I do think it's clear enough that they aren't one and the same, and that there was definitely a robot mind lost when Gamma exploded.

[Gamenerd]

It's not really clear where robot ends and bird begins. There's obviously some kind of connection, else we wouldn't have Gamma having flashes of the flicky's memories, but Gamma acts like a robot, not a bird.

I do think it's clear enough that they aren't one and the same, and that there was definitely a robot mind lost when Gamma exploded.

Of course, there was definitely a robotic 'mind' lost when each robot was destroyed, but at the heart of the matter, it's a cold-hearted robot. All of Gamma's robo-buddies are cold, uncaring assholes that act on what they're programmed to do by Eggman. I always thought that any semblance of emotion, free-will and personality came from some kind of malfunction that allowed the Flicky brain within to function more than in regular Eggman robots. Hence the recreated Gamma in Battle being similar to the original Gamma, but having none of his motivation, courage or kind-heartedness.

That, or I've been dead wrong about Gamma's story for some 10+ years, which really wouldn't surprise me.