How would you rewrite Sonic X?

[Dee Dude]

Since I don’t like writing long detailed posts, I’ll let the title speak for itself.

Sonic X was the first and currently only tv anime of Sonic The Hedgehog, it’s infamous for it’s inconsistent animation, terrible characterization, overuse of humans, and overall lazy writing.

4kids definitely didn’t help with their bad voice acting, unneeded edits, annoying music placement, and stupid puns.

It was covered up in 3 seasons which all had different plots:  1 was about the cast being stranded in the “real” world and dealing away from human society,  2 was basically full with adaptions of the games and 3 actually focused on Sonic’s world....only to head out to space.

Normally since I hate X, I would just let it die but since out of all the cartoons being closest to the modern gameline, I’d being lying if I said it didn’t have some potential.

In what way would you rewrite Sonic X completely to make it something actually worth watching?

and don’t just say remove Chris/humans, that would be too easy and there’s more problems then just them.

[RedFox99]

Well, I would probably have Helen be the main human protagonist instead of Chris, have Amy's love for Sonic be toned down to healthy levels (maybe not to Boom levels), have Knuckles' friends actually be friends towards him, make Sonic less aloof and less of a Gary-Stu, have Cream be more involved in the fights, focus more on Vanilla and the Chaotix during the first season where they try to find out what happened Team Sonic, and focus way more on Sonic and his friends. This is what I've got for seasons 1 and 2

[DabigRG]

I was gonna say I wouldn't, but then a legitimate idea or two popped into mind:

• Have Chris be more definitively lonely, with only Danny extending out a friendly hand early on. As the show goes on and the actions of the Sonic's World-ers  becomes more prevalent, have Francis, Helen, his parents, and eventually [that one kid from the SA2 adaptation] gradually associate with him more.
• Gradually downplay his presence as Sonic & his friends become more well-known, at least in episodes that don't have him play a truly important role in the plot. Also, make him seem a little less hyperfocused on Sonic by giving him other interests and maybe reducing the frequency of such scenes until it becomes relevant in Season 2.
• Give Sonic a little bit of development regarding his tendency to seemingly avoid his friends, possibly by comparing him to Knuckles at least once.
• Have Amy get some spotlight outside of her feelings for Sonic and her anger issues in Season 1, perhaps culminating in an episode where she moves out into her own apartment.
• Give Tails something loosely similar to Amy, except introducing the concept of him owning his own personal Workshop.(Was Mystic Ruins a thing before the SA1 adaptation?)
• Maybe have Cream properly develop a small, occasionally shaky friendship with Chris in a few episodes.
• Give Bokkun just a little more of a background, given that he seemingly came out of nowhere and has a somewhat confusing/inconsistent species.
• Give some small amount of explanation for where Emerl came from. As I recall, he's just sorta there in the Sonic Battle adaptation with little to no connection to Eggman outside of Bokkun recruiting him for a Jailbreak.

I might throw out some more ideas later, but these are the big ones.

[RedFox99]

Also, maybe explain how Eggman arrived in Sonic's world. 

[DabigRG]

Just now, RedFox99 said:

Also, maybe explain how Eggman arrived in Sonic's world. 

See, that's one of the things I'm a little iffy about since SEGA is very hesitant to delve into the characters' pasts outside of the Adventure games(if you wanna count them), which tbf is what Sonic X is heavily based on.

[RedFox99]

3 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

See, that's one of the things I'm a little iffy about since SEGA is very hesitant to delve into the characters' pasts outside of the Adventure games(if you wanna count them), which tbf is what Sonic X is heavily based on.

I guess you have a point there. It does make the whole "two worlds" thing odd when you consider Shadow.

[Red Hot Jack]

I would definitely not remove the humans or Chris. I would still make him the human lead but not the protagonist as it was in the show, I'd give Helen a bigger focus, but still not a protagonist. I would have removed Ella and Tanaka from the main cast, there were too many regular humans, I would have made them guest, but obviously Chris can't live alone with his grandpa, but I would not have had him be spoiled and rich, but definitely more likeable, and not so selfish, but with flaws (not sure which flaws) and not a perfect kid.

I would remove the adaptations because Chris added nothing in SA1 and replaced Amy and Rouge's roles in SA2, I never liked that. But adaptations are boring so I would have done different game-centric plots in season 2.

And, as for season 3, I would have had more varied plots, I like how it's more serious, less filler and slice of life, but everyone is more competent including Chris himself, but honestly all the plots in every episode were "fight the Metarex" as it has been pointed out, more adventures and less fighting in space ships. The rest was good and season 3 is probably my favorite of the bunch, even Cream was useful.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I once had a fan-fic on this very site based around the concept of fixing Season 3 alone to try tie things better and make things more interesting. As that's on indefinite hiatus, I'll share general ideas.

• The season should've began with Sonic, Knuckles and Tails. We're in a totally new setting for the show, establish the main dynamics of the characters without being forced together through Chris.
• Address the fact that Chris was nowhere near justifable in the end of Season 2. The characters should be pissed off at him. He tried to ruin both of their worlds over selfish bullshit. More importantly, Knuckles and Tails should have some distain for the fact Sonic was more than willing to let it happen.
• Tie it closer to the games, introducing newer elements like Blaze and possibly Silver.
• Probably the most controversial suggestion - Cosmo should be a villain. The series is really iffy about how Cosmo's characterization was. It was afraid to make her in a proper villain role in case we didn't find her sympathetic. So we get this really confused explanation of how she's a spy against her will through a hivemind...or whatever. So...
• Dark Oak is not the cause of destruction for their planet. It makes him unsympathetic and makes him look like a power hungry asshole. Give him a valid argument for wanting power and make the destruction out of his control. Have him lose his daughter and wife, give him a reason to fall into such a Knight of Cerberus role that he wants to destroy other planets to ensure their own survival.
• Cosmo's origins - During the destruction of her home planet, Dark Oak doesn't plant a tracking device on Cosmo. Cosmo at a young age happened doesn't remember much and Dark Oak saves her, leaving the two as the survivors of their home planet. Dark Oak, now embittered and destroyed raised Cosmo to believe in their ideals and what they are doing is right.
• Season 3 goes somewhat the same. Cosmo enters the picture and asks for help. The major change is that she is a spy working for Dark Oak and the Meterax. She slowly strings Tails along at the beginning, noticing his feelings for her. 
• However, as time passes, Tails' relationship with Cosmo begins to change her as she sees the legitimate kindness of other species and other worlds and questions her father's morals regarding other species being monsters who only want destruction.
• In the end, Cosmo goes through a heroic redemption thanks to Tails and the others, and the ending goes as normal.
• No Chris. Period. 
• And no, I'm not saying that as "lol humans in this show suuuck". It's because Chris in Season 3 had literally no purpose whatsoever. So much so that they had to find a terrible excuse to shoehorn Chris back to child form. Not only was he fucking terrible in Season 2 and it's finale, but Season 3 has Helen - the character people did like married to this jackass and this ass of an character abandoning his friends and family to run back to Sonic and co. 

[Sgt Nate V]

kill chris

[Red Hot Jack]

Chris was in season 3 so it wouldn't have been a completely separate show, it's what tied together the seasons. Perhaps... make Chris more useful in season 3.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

2 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

Chris was in season 3 so it wouldn't have been a completely separate show, it's what tied together the seasons. Perhaps... make Chris more useful in season 3.

It's Sonic X. Not Chris X. 

That's like saying Frieza should've stayed alive as the villain of the Buu Saga so we'd know this was still Dragon Ball Z.

 

 

[Red Hot Jack]

1 minute ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

It's Sonic X. Not Chris X. 

That's like saying Frieza should've stayed alive as the villain of the Buu Saga so we'd know this was still Dragon Ball Z.

 

 

Nope, read my post.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Just now, Jack of Tangles said:

Nope, read my post.

Alright...?

18 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

I would definitely not remove the humans or Chris. I would still make him the human lead but not the protagonist as it was in the show, I'd give Helen a bigger focus, but still not a protagonist. I would have removed Ella and Tanaka from the main cast, there were too many regular humans, I would have made them guest, but obviously Chris can't live alone with his grandpa, but I would not have had him be spoiled and rich, but definitely more likeable, and not so selfish, but with flaws (not sure which flaws) and not a perfect kid.

This has nothing to do with the point I made.

18 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

I would remove the adaptations because Chris added nothing in SA1 and replaced Amy and Rouge's roles in SA2, I never liked that. But adaptations are boring so I would have done different game-centric plots in season 2.

Removing the adaptions is a bad idea. SA1's adapt (and I can speak from experience since SSMB members watched all of X together a year or two back) was one of the highlights of the series because it retained proper connections to the games, killed Chris' involvement a good bit and added new things to the Sonic cast like Tails getting his arm broke during one of the battles with Chaos and other such things. SA2 and Battle are more iffy but removing the games from the series further is a bad idea when the biggest issue is the fact it's so loosely connected to the games.

20 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

And, as for season 3, I would have had more varied plots, I like how it's more serious, less filler and slice of life, but everyone is more competent including Chris himself, but honestly all the plots in every episode were "fight the Metarex" as it has been pointed out, more adventures and less fighting in space ships. The rest was good and season 3 is probably my favorite of the bunch, even Cream was useful.

This once again has nothing to do with my post other than saying "Chris should be here".

8 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

Chris was in season 3 so it wouldn't have been a completely separate show, it's what tied together the seasons. Perhaps... make Chris more useful in season 3.

Chris being here or not doesn't determine what show it is. It's Sonic X starring Sonic the Hedgehog. People do not watch Sonic X for Chris. It isn't Chris X guest starring Sonic the Hedgehog and his friends. 

[Korke]

I can't think of anything salvageable on seasons 1 and 2.

Season 3 was okay though, IF you consider the jp version. Maybe if it had more episodes to develop some things, because if felt a bit rushed.

Especially all that Tails and Cosmo business. It was fine, but it did seem weird because of how quickly that escalated.

And of course, a better endgame with an actual fight. It's a shonen after all, huh?

[Red Hot Jack]

9 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Alright...?

This has nothing to do with the point I made.

Removing the adaptions is a bad idea. SA1's adapt (and I can speak from experience since SSMB members watched all of X together a year or two back) was one of the highlights of the series because it retained proper connections to the games, killed Chris' involvement a good bit and added new things to the Sonic cast like Tails getting his arm broke during one of the battles with Chaos and other such things. SA2 and Battle are more iffy but removing the games from the series further is a bad idea when the biggest issue is the fact it's so loosely connected to the games.

This once again has nothing to do with my post other than saying "Chris should be here".

Chris being here or not doesn't determine what show it is. It's Sonic X starring Sonic the Hedgehog. People do not watch Sonic X for Chris. It isn't Chris X guest starring Sonic the Hedgehog and his friends. 

I said keep him as a lead but not as a protagonist, that's the point, don't exaggerate with humans and don't have too much Chris in general, oh, and make him useful though. It's Sonic X, it's not supposed to be the Chris show but it's not supposed to be a generic Sonic show, it's about Sonic in the human world. So, I choose a middle ground, as usual.

[DabigRG]

16 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

I guess you have a point there. It does make the whole "two worlds" thing odd when you consider Shadow.

Yeah, they probably should've tied the SA2 adaptation in better.

2 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

I would still make him the human lead but not the protagonist as it was in the show,

I'd give Helen a bigger focus, but still not a protagonist. 

 but definitely more likeable, and not so selfish, but with flaws (not sure which flaws) and not a perfect kid.

Mind explaining those points a little? They seem kind of zigzagging and non-specific.

18 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

I would have removed Ella and Tanaka from the main cast, there were too many regular humans, I would have made them guest,

Admittedly, they were a little hard for me to justify outside of comic relief, particularly Ella.

18 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

I would remove the adaptations because Chris added nothing in SA1 and replaced Amy and Rouge's roles in SA2, I never liked that. But adaptations are boring so I would have done different game-centric plots in season 2.

 

Unpopular Opinion, but I not only liked him partnering up with Big, but I actually thought his involvement in the SA2 arc was brilliant. 

Also, Rouge?

10 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

And, as for season 3, I would have had more varied plots, I like how it's more serious, less filler and slice of life, but everyone is more competent including Chris himself, but honestly all the plots in every episode were "fight the Metarex" as it has been pointed out, more adventures and less fighting in space ships. The rest was good and season 3 is probably my favorite of the bunch, even Cream was useful.

There was still filler here in there, if mostly revolving around the Chaotix and Shadow.

 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 minute ago, Jack of Tangles said:

I said keep him as a lead but not as a protagonist, that's the point, don't exaggerate with humans and don't have too much Chris in general, oh, and make him useful though. It's Sonic X, it's not supposed to be the Chris show but it's not supposed to be a generic Sonic show, it's about Sonic in the human world. So, I choose a middle ground, as usual.

But that's not the point. It is a Sonic show. Chris' entire arc was concluded in Season 2 (And extremely shakily as well, considering it had him attempting to destroy both worlds over his stupid obsession with Sonic. 

Season 3 did not need Chris in any kind of role whatsoever. Not as a lead, not as a protagonist, not even as a support. Mention him and what he did at the end of Season 2, have the characters act like reasonable people. Chris receives no comeuppance or question for what was a scummy move. His stupid crap would've done more harm than Eggman ever could in one fell swoop. 

And even when he was brought into Season 3, it was done in the worst way imaginable by having Chris trying to abandon his friends and family just to see Sonic again. Considering Season 3's entire conflict is based around Cosmo and her world, Chris has no role whatsoever. He was here to steal time from others as per usual in a season which should've been the one to finally give the Sonic cast focus (and even attempted to do, given a huge chunk of it was trying to develop Tails). Season 3 improving at least starts with Chris not being anywhere near it because not only does it amp up Season 2's issues further, but he has no role other than stealing time, development and spotlight from the characters who should've got it from Season 1 and that Season 3 was supposed to rectify. 

[DabigRG]

 

35 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

• Tie it closer to the games, introducing newer elements like Blaze and possibly Silver.

To be fair, Blaze and Silver didn't exist when [most of] the show was in production.

37 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

• Probably the most controversial suggestion - Cosmo should be a villain. The series is really iffy about how Cosmo's characterization was. It was afraid to make her in a proper villain role in case we didn't find her sympathetic. So we get this really confused explanation of how she's a spy against her will through a hivemind...or whatever. So...
• Cosmo's origins - During the destruction of her home planet, Dark Oak doesn't plant a tracking device on Cosmo. Cosmo at a young age happened doesn't remember much and Dark Oak saves her, leaving the two as the survivors of their home planet. Dark Oak, now embittered and destroyed raised Cosmo to believe in their ideals and what they are doing is right.
• Season 3 goes somewhat the same. Cosmo enters the picture and asks for help. The major change is that she is a spy working for Dark Oak and the Meterax. She slowly strings Tails along at the beginning, noticing his feelings for her. 
• However, as time passes, Tails' relationship with Cosmo begins to change her as she sees the legitimate kindness of other species and other worlds and questions her father's morals regarding other species being monsters who only want destruction.
• In the end, Cosmo goes through a heroic redemption thanks to Tails and the others, and the ending goes as normal.

Okay, so while sounded kind of petty at first, I can say it would've been a more interesting arc given that you actually went through the whole thing.

Mind you, I still think that the whole implanted bug thing was a pretty creative twist in and of itself, but I agree that it makes more narrative sense for Cosmo to be a plant since she was apparently the daughter of Dark Oak and Galaxina anyway, iirc.

42 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Dark Oak is not the cause of destruction for their planet. It makes him unsympathetic and makes him look like a power hungry asshole. Give him a valid argument for wanting power and make the destruction out of his control. Have him lose his daughter and wife, give him a reason to fall into such a Knight of Cerberus role that he wants to destroy other planets to ensure their own survival.

Was he? It's been so long, I honestly don't remember what happened outside of a philosophical conflict between him and Galaxina.

35 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

• No Chris. Period. 
• And no, I'm not saying that as "lol humans in this show suuuck". It's because Chris in Season 3 had literally no purpose whatsoever. So much so that they had to find a terrible excuse to shoehorn Chris back to child form. 

 

28 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

Perhaps... make Chris more useful in season 3.

I'm pretty sure Chris was useful just the way he was in Season 3, particularly since he's the one who made the upgraded shoes Sonic uses in certain episodes. Didn't he also contribute to completing the Blue Typhoon as well?

 

 

23 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

I said keep him as a lead but not as a protagonist, that's the point, don't exaggerate with humans and don't have too much Chris in general, oh, and make him useful though. It's Sonic X, it's not supposed to be the Chris show but it's not supposed to be a generic Sonic show, it's about Sonic in the human world. So, I choose a middle ground, as usual.

That's the best approach, really.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

2 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

To be fair, Blaze and Silver didn't exist when [most of] the show was in production.

My bad, I was going off UK release dates, in which it was around 2006/7 for S3, not 5/6 for US.

4 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Okay, so while sounded kind of petty at first, I can say it would've been a more interesting arc given that you actually went through the whole thing.

Mind you, I still think that the whole implanted bug thing was a pretty creative twist in and of itself, but I agree that it makes more narrative sense for Cosmo to be a plant since she was apparently the daughter of Dark Oak and Galaxina anyway, iirc.

Trust me, it's not petty. I actually really like Cosmo as a character and when I was younger, even shipped her with Tails. But as I am older, I feel a lot more could've been done with her narrative to give her a way more defined arc.

5 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Was he? It's been so long, I honestly don't remember what happened outside of a philosophical conflict between him and Galaxina.

I honestly can't remember, but I think it might've had something to do with the robotic shells they used. Oak wanted to use them to gain power for their planet while Cosmo's mother didn't want them and then what happened to their planet happened.

I feel in general, they need to make Oak more sympathetic since they're end goal is redeeming him by reuniting him with Cosmo, Galaxina and such at the end of the season in the afterlife. Giving him a sympathetic reason for being distrusting of other species and wanting to ensure survival for him and his daughter and the shattered remains of his own species that's near extinction gives him a much more sympathetic  motive.

[Splash the Otter]

First of all I would combine the two worlds into a single one with humans and anthros living together. The main setting would be a combination of places from the Classic and Dreamcast eras.

I wouldn't get rid of Chris, but I would definitely change him up. He and his family would be middle-class, and would have recently moved to Station Square. Chris would start out as a civilian type of character who gets caught up in a conflict between Sonic and Dr Eggman, and develop over time into a more active member of Sonic's group. This doesn't mean he would upstage Sonic's other friends though, everyone would get their share of the spotlight.

I would keep the SA1 adaptation, make the ones for SA2 and Battle more source-accurate, and have new stories based on Heroes and Advance 3. Otherwise the stories would be original. I would also introduce new enemies so the heroes don't have to fight Eggman all the time.

I don't know if Cosmo or the other Metarex would appear. If it's possible to include them without resorting to space travel, then sure. I like Ryannumber1gamer's idea of having Cosmo start out as a bad guy.

[GentlemanX]

Don't change anything, just make more of it.

...

...

...Okay, fine. 

Honestly, there's really nothing that I feel needs changing. I like the earlier suggestion of isolating Chris early on and having his circle grow over time. That's essentially what happens already, but enough people have had a problem with episodes 49-52 that I guess emphasizing it throughout the show more would be fine. I also think Emerl could have gotten more focus during his arc and episodes 47-48 aren't the best. Maybe just have a two parter focused on the GUN Fort? I thought that was a neat concept.

The Metarex Arc as a whole drags a lot. It's certainly not bad and has lots of cool ideas and visuals, but especially in Japanese I think it comes across as generic with the Metarex themselves feeling too derivative of other anime villains. Ironically, I think the English dub makes them feel more authentically Sonic, mostly coming down to some stellar performances from each of them. I think giving them some more mannerisms and quirks would have helped sell them. Zelkova is fine, but Narcissus and Bayleaf needed to be less subdued. Bayleaf gets a great showing in episode 68 that I think could have been expanded on by showing more independence from what the other Metarex were doing. Narcissus' also has a great appearance in episode 67 that we never really see more of, and his mirror weapon immediately shows they were aware of what he could have been, but it really never got the attention it deserved. I give Dark Oak a pass because he's the big bad, but showing more of his "humanity" (not a human, but you get the idea) throughout the arc rather than at the end could have made him more compelling as well.

Most of my comments are with regards to the Metarex Arc because... I honestly think the first 52 episodes are fine for the most part, certainly in concept. It's a fun kids adventure series and I fell in love with Chris' story and those characters across those episodes. The dub is decent, at least for a 4Kids production, but it doesn't hold a candle to the Japanese version for me.

[Fire-N-Space]

- Have Sonic be more compassionate and aware of Amy's affection towards him and have them work as a team more often.

- Amy to win more fights against enemies with or without girl bomber.

- Cosmo doesn't die at the end.

[Cuz]

I find a big part of the appeal of Sonic X is the fish out of water aspect as the Sonic characters adjust to living on a new planet. I would definitely keep the two worlds concept it's practically the central premise. Chris needs major retooling and downplaying, as Ryannumber said nothing Chris does in the Season 2 finale is justified, there's major character flaws... and then there's plain old grating.

Oh, and give Amy back her one major character defining moment with Shadow in SA2, jeese Chris! Otherwise I tend to like Sonic X especially many things that are unique to it from Sonic's introverted and aloof personality, Rouge's badassery, and Robotnik's forth wall breaking comedy, to SonAmy developing into a thing by season 2's end.

Do it over with a better animation budget for action scenes and more Chaotix detective agency devoted episodes I say!

[Tornado]

There was nothing salvageable about Sonic X as presented; perhaps excepting the character artwork for the advertising (so well salvaged that Sega made use of it for a solid decade for some characters). To rewrite it to be a show of some quality would be to throw it out and essentially make a new show. There were inherent problems with the show on a conceptual level (not the least of which being that Sonic wasn't the protagonist of his own show) and serious problems with the writers' interpretations of the cast (that almost immediately bled back into the series proper afterward); and Season 3, for all of its bump in quality and actual character stakes over the earlier watered down adaptations of better-written games, dragged those problems kicking and screaming to the forefront.

[Swing]

There are a lot of things that are wrong with Sonic X. The biggest issue I had with Sonic X is, that I really do not get Chris' big deal at the end of the second season. Okay, he is lonely and unhappy. But I really do not buy it. His parents were not perfect, but they really did anything for him, even left work, when they heard he was in trouble. Also, how is he lonely when he had three really good friends with Helen, Danny and Frances? What about them? It really doesn't made any sense that he is so unhappy? For me, he felt more like an obsessed Sonic Fanboy that can not live with out Sonic.  

If the lonely part should make sense, I would have written out Helen, Danny and Frances and would have made his family more unlikable.